Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Sparks Rover]

6 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

What I find extraordinary in this is that if last night had happened in reverse and we had lost to a team after having the better of the game - particularly if it was a team managed by Warnock or Bilic , or whoever the latest flavour of the month is - people would have been demanding that we get a manager who can chisel out results against the odds. Yet when we manage that with Mowbray people hold it against him.

I think it was more the poor performance.  We got lucky.  Against 4th from bottom I expect more if we are to push for top 6.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[tomphil]

9 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

What I find extraordinary in this is that if last night had happened in reverse and we had lost to a team after having the better of the game - particularly if it was a team managed by Warnock or Bilic , or whoever the latest flavour of the month is - people would have been demanding that we get a manager who can chisel out results against the odds. Yet when we manage that with Mowbray people hold it against him.

Did you actually watch the game ? Have you been watching them this season ?

Genuine question because if you had surely you'd realize last night had very little to do with him chiseling anything out. 

Most of what we saw from him last night appeared to hinder the team. It was another abject performance.

Swapping a raw weak kid who's struggled from the first min for a solid 36 year old ex Prem/ England int who can put his foot on the ball for the last 10 mins is in no way rocket science or a tactical masterstroke.

Tony was settling for a draw last night make no mistake. I'm delighted we snatched the win but for 97 mins I was seething.

That's the reaction you are seeing from people here. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by tomphil

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Did you actually watch the game ? Have you been watching them this season ?

Genuine question because if you had surely you'd realize last night had very little to do with him chiseling anything out. 

Most of what we saw from him last night appeared to hinder the team. It was another abject performance.

Swapping a raw weak kid who's struggled from the first min for a solid 36 year old ex Prem/ England int who can put his foot on the ball for the last 10 mins is in no way rocket science or a tactical masterstroke.

Tony was settling for a draw last night make no mistake. I'm delighted we snatched the win but for 97 mins I was seething.

That's the reaction you are seeing from people here. 

It's a results business - we got the result.

[gumboots]

I think all managers have a shelf life. Eventually it must get almost impossible to get the same group of players to perform to the max. Rich clubs get round this by changing players. Poor clubs settle for where they are and cut their cloth accordingly. Clubs with ambition but not much spare cash change manager. You can do it any time,  it costs less than changing 4 or more players, and the potential rewards are high. Mind you, so is the potential risk so you, as a club and as fans, have to be prepared to fail if you want to get 9n.

[JBiz]

8 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

It's a results business - we got the result.

I can’t understand how anyone could’ve watched the last ten minutes and thought the tactic was to hold onto a point.

[tomphil]

45 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

It's a results business - we got the result.

He's a performance related manager he told you so 

He said the last performance - in which we lost - was alright. That's no doubt played a part in following it up with an even worse one. How does he explain that then seeing as he's just told us he's a ' performance manager ' ?

He owes Adam Armstrong big time this season. Last night he pulled Mr Performance right out the mire..... again.

Edited December 17, 2020 by tomphil

[tomphil]

18 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I can’t understand how anyone could’ve watched the last ten minutes and thought the tactic was to hold onto a point.

8 of those last 10 was time added on, the last sub was on 89 mins and for all anyone knew there was 3 mins left.

The settle for a point subs were made way before the end of normal time.

Edited December 17, 2020 by tomphil

[SBlue]

Is there a gas leak in here or something?

We’ve lost two out of our last ten.

[Hasta]

Mowbrays problem is stubbornness. Even his disciples, sorry, people who think he is doing very well, must surely admit that Gallagher on the wing very rarely bears fruition. Every time he got the ball wide last night it was held up and laid back to whoever was supporting him, thus ending of the impetus of the move. The couple of times he did try to go at the full back he lost it. When Elliot, Nyambe, Dolan or even Brereton get the ball in that position there's a chance we will actually keep the impetus going. 

Yet it took until the 90th minute before Mowbray decided this wasn't working and brought Dolan on. I'd be amazed if Gally isn't back out there come Saturday.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Hasta

[tomphil]

Or won 1 in the last 4 and only taken 4 points out of a possible 12.

Classic midtable stuff.

[Bigdoggsteel]

50 minutes ago, tomphil said:

8 of those last 10 was time added on, the last sub was on 89 mins and for all anyone knew there was 3 mins left.

The settle for a point subs were made way before the end of normal time.

Ah we weren't settling for a point. Lenhan and Ayala were up for the winning goal. If you are settling for a point you would leave at least 1 of your centre halves back. Plus we played with more urgency in extra time than we did in normal time. I think Downing got things going, along with Holtby and Trybull. 

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ah we weren't settling for a point. Lenhan and Ayala were up for the winning goal. If you are settling for a point you would leave at least 1 of your centre halves back. Plus we played with more urgency in extra time than we did in normal time. I think Downing got things going, along with Holtby and Trybull. 

That's what i'm saying though they only showed any real urgency when the board went up showing 8 mins.

Otherwise it's likely the game would've petered out at 1-1, the subs were already done then. He didn't 'go for it' in injury time via any tactical switch. Dolan looked a late time wasting sub nothing more.

Edited December 17, 2020 by tomphil

[Exiled_Rover]

Honestly he's not the man to take us up.

He's somehow bumbled into assembling a decent squad, but he's still not using them correctly - and we're still shocking at LB.

That said, and I hate to say it, but it's almost 'better the devil you know'. The lack of organisational structure at this football club is terrifying. For all his faults, Mowbray has at least got us feeling / operating like a football club again - but it's only skin deep.

If he goes the transition of power isn't going to be seamless. The next manager has a hell of a job on his hands.

[Dreams of 1995]

I can't for the life of me justify the sacking of a manager on the back of 2 losses in 10 games, regardless of what some desktop managers think can be done better.

Last night we ground a win out of a truly terrible performance (they happen) and it is now time "we look at the performance, not the result".

We play exceptionally well against Watford and Bournemouth and we "have to look beyond the performance and at the result".

Contradictory. Simple as that. Take a position and stick with it. If you don't like Mowbray and want him gone then fine, but say that instead of trying to make it out like it is those that want him to stay are the ones overlooking the facts. In reality it is just difficult to keep up with the everchanging measuring stick.

Call me a disciple if it makes you feel better about my disagreement. Could not care less. The catchphrases that come out of this thread are plain silly.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

My beef with Mowbray is we just look like a collection of players. Some good not, so good. Most of the time our pattern of play is dull, uninspiring, lacklustre, easy to play against. We see teams like Rotherham come to Ewood and have the better of the game and manage to keep us at arms length without too much trouble. Teams were you might think one or two of their players are better than what we have. They can do that because they do have a pattern of play, they have players playing in roles that are suited to their abilities.  You can look at them and you can see who's supposed to be doing what.

We lack that cohesive team set up. Half of the games we've played in and not done well most of this board are calling for half the team to be dropped. Two games down the line the new guys need dropping and the usual suspects are being selected. We haven't got a best team or way or playing. I accept that with the amount of games keeping the same 11 is almost impossible but the way of playing should stay the same.

[tomphil]

When the manager himself tells everyone in public that a poor performance in which we lost was 'alright'.  Then goes on to label himself a performance based manager he is somewhat setting himself up for scrutiny by the desktop managers.

We've had 2 back to back poor efforts. lost one, won one. Probably similar to come on Saturday and we might draw.

It is what it is but don't cry about it being forcibly debated we can't just cancel out the cons to suit the pros.  Even though we are in that culture, debate is healthy and if it feeds back to the gaffer or players and they pull their fingers out it's no bad thing.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, S8 & Blue said:

Is there a gas leak in here or something?

We’ve lost two out of our last ten.

That'll be the smell of the shit we played last night.

[SBlue]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That'll be the smell of the shit we played last night.

Must be toxic fumes. Feel like I'm sniffing glue reading some of this.

[K-Hod]

2 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Must be toxic fumes. Feel like I'm sniffing glue reading some of this.

Certainly explains a few things 😏

[1864roverite]

Playing badly and winning? Good base for a good new year if you ask me. He has his issues but we are in no position to complain!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Must be toxic fumes. Feel like I'm sniffing glue reading some of this.

You and the team ?

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, 1864roverite said:

Playing badly and winning? Good base for a good new year if you ask me. He has his issues but we are in no position to complain!

Not sure about this.  It took 5 subs to make the team look anything like against a bottom 4 team.  This concerns me along with the contract situation with a lot of our better players.  

Nothing to see here, move along....

[DE.]

We haven't played consistently well at any point during TM's tenure, and I include our promotion season in that. We've had spells of looking decent, but it always ends up reverting to what we're seeing now. 

Results matter, but I've seen nothing this season to suggest we're going anywhere other than mid-table under the current manager. I'm personally not happy with mid-table, so it would make no sense for me to want Mowbray to stay. It's a long-term view for me rather than short-term. 

Obviously if people feel we are going in the right direction under TM then fair enough, you'll want him to stick around. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean others can't. We all have different views. Just wish it didn't have to constantly devolve to name-calling on both sides. 

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

Obviously if people feel we are going in the right direction under TM then fair enough, you'll want him to stick around. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean others can't. We all have different views. Just wish it didn't have to constantly devolve to name-calling on both sides. 

https://www.wsc.co.uk/stories/13698-tony-mowbray-has-tough-task-at-blackburn-as-venky-s-remain-focus-for-anger
 

I remember reading this when he took over and upon searching again, just a stark reminder of what he took over and what we have now.

Its a good example of why many, including myself feel he has a done a very good job so far.

The club have built the expectation level through results and investment in the playing squad, good decisions taken in the transfer market and in academy - if we don’t make the playoffs this season I’d call it a failure.

At that point I would consider a change.

[DE.]

8 minutes ago, JBiz said:

https://www.wsc.co.uk/stories/13698-tony-mowbray-has-tough-task-at-blackburn-as-venky-s-remain-focus-for-anger
 

I remember reading this when he took over and upon searching again, just a stark reminder of what he took over and what we have now.

Its a good example of why many, including myself feel he has a done a very good job so far.

The club have built the expectation level through results and investment in the playing squad, good decisions taken in the transfer market and in academy - if we don’t make the playoffs this season I’d call it a failure.

At that point I would consider a change.

I wouldn't disagree that he's done a good job overall in the circumstances. I just don't think he's the man to push us further than mid-table. He'd go with my thanks and no hard feelings, but we need a manager with a bit more tactical nous and ruthlessness. My main concern in regards to waiting until the end of the season is that I think we may be coming to the end of a Venky cycle, meaning next summer will be all about sales and cost-cutting. I think this may be the last season we have in the current cycle to go up, and I don't think TM is going to get us there based on the season so far.

Obviously it's Venky's so spinning the wheel is a risk, but excluding Coyle their managerial appointments since the end of the Kean/Berg/Appleton era have been OK. I don't think we're guaranteed to get a total dud. The main issue is that whoever comes in effectively starts from scratch, as the club is repeatedly rebuilt in the image of whatever manager is at the helm. The owners refuse to implment a sensible infrastructure which makes removing the manager a much more difficult process than it should be. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by DE.