Tony Mowbray Discussion

[1864roverite]

Playing badly and winning? Good base for a good new year if you ask me. He has his issues but we are in no position to complain!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Must be toxic fumes. Feel like I'm sniffing glue reading some of this.

You and the team ?

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, 1864roverite said:

Playing badly and winning? Good base for a good new year if you ask me. He has his issues but we are in no position to complain!

Not sure about this.  It took 5 subs to make the team look anything like against a bottom 4 team.  This concerns me along with the contract situation with a lot of our better players.  

Nothing to see here, move along....

[DE.]

We haven't played consistently well at any point during TM's tenure, and I include our promotion season in that. We've had spells of looking decent, but it always ends up reverting to what we're seeing now. 

Results matter, but I've seen nothing this season to suggest we're going anywhere other than mid-table under the current manager. I'm personally not happy with mid-table, so it would make no sense for me to want Mowbray to stay. It's a long-term view for me rather than short-term. 

Obviously if people feel we are going in the right direction under TM then fair enough, you'll want him to stick around. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean others can't. We all have different views. Just wish it didn't have to constantly devolve to name-calling on both sides. 

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

Obviously if people feel we are going in the right direction under TM then fair enough, you'll want him to stick around. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean others can't. We all have different views. Just wish it didn't have to constantly devolve to name-calling on both sides. 

https://www.wsc.co.uk/stories/13698-tony-mowbray-has-tough-task-at-blackburn-as-venky-s-remain-focus-for-anger
 

I remember reading this when he took over and upon searching again, just a stark reminder of what he took over and what we have now.

Its a good example of why many, including myself feel he has a done a very good job so far.

The club have built the expectation level through results and investment in the playing squad, good decisions taken in the transfer market and in academy - if we don’t make the playoffs this season I’d call it a failure.

At that point I would consider a change.

[DE.]

8 minutes ago, JBiz said:

https://www.wsc.co.uk/stories/13698-tony-mowbray-has-tough-task-at-blackburn-as-venky-s-remain-focus-for-anger
 

I remember reading this when he took over and upon searching again, just a stark reminder of what he took over and what we have now.

Its a good example of why many, including myself feel he has a done a very good job so far.

The club have built the expectation level through results and investment in the playing squad, good decisions taken in the transfer market and in academy - if we don’t make the playoffs this season I’d call it a failure.

At that point I would consider a change.

I wouldn't disagree that he's done a good job overall in the circumstances. I just don't think he's the man to push us further than mid-table. He'd go with my thanks and no hard feelings, but we need a manager with a bit more tactical nous and ruthlessness. My main concern in regards to waiting until the end of the season is that I think we may be coming to the end of a Venky cycle, meaning next summer will be all about sales and cost-cutting. I think this may be the last season we have in the current cycle to go up, and I don't think TM is going to get us there based on the season so far.

Obviously it's Venky's so spinning the wheel is a risk, but excluding Coyle their managerial appointments since the end of the Kean/Berg/Appleton era have been OK. I don't think we're guaranteed to get a total dud. The main issue is that whoever comes in effectively starts from scratch, as the club is repeatedly rebuilt in the image of whatever manager is at the helm. The owners refuse to implment a sensible infrastructure which makes removing the manager a much more difficult process than it should be. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by DE.

[JBiz]

11 minutes ago, DE. said:

I wouldn't disagree that he's done a good job overall in the circumstances. I just don't think he's the man to push us further than mid-table. He'd go with my thanks and no hard feelings, but we need a manager with a bit more tactical nous and ruthlessness. My main concern in regards to waiting until the end of the season is that I think we may be coming to the end of a Venky cycle, meaning next summer will be all about sales and cost-cutting. I think this may be the last season we have in the current cycle to go up, and I don't think TM is going to get us there based on the season so far.

Obviously it's Venky's so spinning the wheel is a risk, but excluding Coyle their managerial appointments since the end of the Kean/Berg/Appleton era have been OK. I don't think we're guaranteed to get a total dud. The main issue is that whoever comes in effectively starts from scratch, as the club is repeatedly rebuilt in the image of whatever manager is at the helm. The owners refuse to implment a sensible infrastructure which makes removing the manager a much more difficult process than it should be. 

@DE. Mowbray and Waggott have put their own structure in for that I feel, and it’s called Damien Johnson.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if TM took a step up or back next season if he can’t get us above the glass ceiling you mention. I also wouldn’t be too unhappy about DJ having a spin at it, providing he had his choice of new backroom staff if necessary.

If we had Bilic in early January with a decent pot for a couple of signings - I would rate our chances higher than TM at this point. That said, I think it would be unfair not to give him till the summer UNLESS we’re clearly going backwards.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Has a manager moving up ever worked? 

[Dreams of 1995]

Even when the day comes that Mowbray is no longer the manager at Rovers I would feel a lot more confident in our future if he was in the board room. I personally think our change in fortunes, and attitude to the game, has come from him. He brings about a sense of football 'normality' and has changed a basket case club into a functioning football club once again. At least player wise, maybe not so in our commercial department.

We need more board members to allow those at the club to focus on their actual departments. There are a lot of areas lacking because most will be focussed on the playing department and budgets. If we had a managing director, sporting director, commercial director etc as opposed to Cheston and Waggott we might see some of the poor areas of our club improve.

If the natural progression is Damien Johnson then so be it. Not too happy with it myself given the lack of experience but at least it would mean there is a plan. Mowbray as sporting director would mean there is genuine continuity and would see to it there's a man above DJ who will is not tied to other commitments and can press genuine needs unhindered.

We seem to have moved on from the early days of Venkys in the playing dept, it is time we did it in the board room too.

 

[Ewood Ace]

11 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Even when the day comes that Mowbray is no longer the manager at Rovers I would feel a lot more confident in our future if he was in the board room. I personally think our change in fortunes, and attitude to the game, has come from him. He brings about a sense of football 'normality' and has changed a basket case club into a functioning football club once again. At least player wise, maybe not so in our commercial department.

We need more board members to allow those at the club to focus on their actual departments. There are a lot of areas lacking because most will be focussed on the playing department and budgets. If we had a managing director, sporting director, commercial director etc as opposed to Cheston and Waggott we might see some of the poor areas of our club improve.

If the natural progression is Damien Johnson then so be it. Not too happy with it myself given the lack of experience but at least it would mean there is a plan. Mowbray as sporting director would mean there is genuine continuity and would see to it there's a man above DJ who will is not tied to other commitments and can press genuine needs unhindered.

We seem to have moved on from the early days of Venkys in the playing dept, it is time we did it in the board room too.

 

Dear god no. He basically already acts as his own sporting director/director of football or whatever you want to call it. I doubt that there is a manager in English football who has as much control over their club as he does.

 

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Has a manager moving up ever worked? 

I can't ever think of one. I also couldn't think of anyone less suited to the role than Mowbray his work in the transfer market is average at best, his approach to signings is rather scattergun and his big money signings have not seen a value for money return. Then we also have his rather generous approach to handing out very generous contracts to players who then aren't used.

[tomphil]

At no point whatsoever have we punched above our weight with Mowbray as manager. Or indeed under this ownership.

We underachieved and went down, not all his fault as he nearly did enough in his own cautious way.  We went up first time as expected and used the resources and what we already had as expected.

Since then its been pretty much bang average and reflecting what is available year on year. At no point though have we over achieved or looked like doing so but that is what it will take to propel Rovers into genuine top 6 challengers.

That or a bigger budget and high profile manager as tried, tested and proven in the past.  

[roversfan99]

The main reason why people seem to question the managers future is because for all of the aspirations of top 6, we never break into it. Last night we played dreadfully but at the end of the day we did indeed win, yet there is still 4 points and 5 teams between us and 6th. Until we get into that top 6, which is ultimately the next step, then those question marks are valid. Nonsensical theories about correlations between wanting a managerial change and being those who only went v Oxford are just wind up material, whereas more constructive stats about current form etc are ultimately rendered irrelevant until the form gets us into the 6, which is the only way to counteract that primary reason for a change.

[RevidgeBlue]

11 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Even when the day comes that Mowbray is no longer the manager at Rovers I would feel a lot more confident in our future if he was in the board room. I personally think our change in fortunes, and attitude to the game, has come from him. He brings about a sense of football 'normality' and has changed a basket case club into a functioning football club once again. At least player wise, maybe not so in our commercial department.

We need more board members to allow those at the club to focus on their actual departments. There are a lot of areas lacking because most will be focussed on the playing department and budgets. If we had a managing director, sporting director, commercial director etc as opposed to Cheston and Waggott we might see some of the poor areas of our club improve.

If the natural progression is Damien Johnson then so be it. Not too happy with it myself given the lack of experience but at least it would mean there is a plan. Mowbray as sporting director would mean there is genuine continuity and would see to it there's a man above DJ who will is not tied to other commitments and can press genuine needs unhindered.

We seem to have moved on from the early days of Venkys in the playing dept, it is time we did it in the board room too.

 

To shift Mowbray upstairs would be the worst possible idea, almost on a par with appointing Coyle as manager.

"I've got this brilliant idea! Tony hasn't cut the mustard as manager (at least not at  Championship level) so let's shunt him upstairs so he can impose his ideas and philosophies which haven't worked on the new man!"

[RevidgeBlue]

11 hours ago, JBiz said:

@DE. 

If we had Bilic in early January with a decent pot for a couple of signings - I would rate our chances higher than TM at this point. That said, I think it would be unfair not to give him till the summer UNLESS we’re clearly going backwards.

That's the only justification you need to make the change isn't it? At least under ambitious owners.

We'll certainly start to move backwards in summer when we limp in midtable again under Mowbray then his failure to keep the squad size under control and FFP begin to bite, Nyambe walks on a free and we are forced to sell a couple of Armstrong Travis or Dack.

[RevidgeBlue]

20 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I’m assuming all you shouting for Mowbray out are the same lot who filled the rest of the seats for the Oxford game at Ewood in League one.

Good to see you again.

Been going since the end of 1970 and have seen many of our managers do way better than Mowbray on far less resources.

You?

[JBiz]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

That's the only justification you need to make the change isn't it? At least under ambitious owners.

We'll certainly start to move backwards in summer when we limp in midtable again under Mowbray then his failure to keep the squad size under control and FFP begin to bite, Nyambe walks on a free and we are forced to sell a couple of Armstrong Travis or Dack.

Unless a teams spiralling backwards, I don’t see why you’d pot a manager mid season or outside a transfer window. Hence why I’d wait.

In terms of your other points; “ffp is just a perfect excuse” according to plenty of people on BRFCS.

Its a bit ironic. FFP can’t be used as a reason for us not breaking the bank on wages again, “because if we wanted too, we’d find a way round it!” - but it can be used as a stick to beat the manager with because he hasn’t got us promoted fast enough to keep our squad?

Also the fact that the Dacks, Armstrong’s et al will likely fetch a lot of bob this time, as opposed to being shipped out under a cloud (Duffy, Cairney, Marshall etc) will probably give us more chance to build (similar to Brentfords current setup)

As for Nyambes contract; he can only go abroad for free, and if he goes somewhere like the top divisions of Germany, Spain or Italy - I’m not sure how anyone could specifically blame the manager.

Players hold the cards these days. Without any facts, and just assumption; many say he’s ostracised him to the point he wants out. Many used Benno and his inclusion as an example for this, but how many muscle injuries has Nyambe had? His latest from sitting in a funny position on a long haul flight!?

The reality is probably more like his agent has suggested he wait to see where we’re going to end up. Everyone here would do the same.

[K-Hod]

9 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Unless a teams spiralling backwards, I don’t see why you’d pot a manager mid season or outside a transfer window. Hence why I’d wait.

In terms of your other points; “ffp is just a perfect excuse” according to plenty of people on BRFCS.

Its a bit ironic. FFP can’t be used as a reason for us not breaking the bank on wages again, “because if we wanted too, we’d find a way round it!” - but it can be used as a stick to beat the manager with because he hasn’t got us promoted fast enough to keep our squad?

Also the fact that the Dacks, Armstrong’s et al will likely fetch a lot of bob this time, as opposed to being shipped out under a cloud (Duffy, Cairney, Marshall etc) will probably give us more chance to build (similar to Brentfords current setup)

As for Nyambes contract; he can only go abroad for free, and if he goes somewhere like the top divisions of Germany, Spain or Italy - I’m not sure how anyone could specifically blame the manager.

Players hold the cards these days. Without any facts, and just assumption; many say he’s ostracised him to the point he wants out. Many used Benno and his inclusion as an example for this, but how many muscle injuries has Nyambe had? His latest from sitting in a funny position on a long haul flight!?

The reality is probably more like his agent has suggested he wait to see where we’re going to end up. Everyone here would do the same.

To be fair, even when Nyambe has been fully fit, Bennett and JRC have been picked in his place, despite both being inferior to him there.....

[JBiz]

16 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

To be fair, even when Nyambe has been fully fit, Bennett and JRC have been picked in his place, despite both being inferior to him there.....

How long have you been a physio man! 
 

We don’t know for sure exactly who’s fit and when they’re not injured.....

[Dreams of 1995]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

To shift Mowbray upstairs would be the worst possible idea, almost on a par with appointing Coyle as manager.

"I've got this brilliant idea! Tony hasn't cut the mustard as manager (at least not at  Championship level) so let's shunt him upstairs so he can impose his ideas and philosophies which haven't worked on the new man!"

What makes you say Tony hasn't cut the mustard?

He has turned the good ship HMS Blackburn Rovers a full 180. I still think we will get in the play offs this season. Our squad value is substantially more than it was when he came; our scouting department has had an overhaul; the players we have now are not chancers. 

I have my problems with Mowbray. There will always be something about a manager that you don't like. I just don't see the overwhelming evidence that he is bad for the club that others are clearly seeing judging by the vitriol on here.

The comparison with Coyle is over dramatic. Mowbray is nothing like him and has shown integrity throughout his career. 

[LDRover]

18 minutes ago, JBiz said:

How long have you been a physio man! 
 

We don’t know for sure exactly who’s fit and when they’re not injured.....

So why would he be on the bench then?

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, LDRover said:

So why would he be on the bench then?

The two most recent droppings of Nyambe have been because his confidence was low (Millwall last season) and Wycombe this season when Mowbray left him out 'because his numbers were too high'. His logic was that Nyambe could get injured because he was working too hard. Contrast that to allowing Williams to play after leaving the decision to the player.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, LDRover said:

So why would he be on the bench then?

Less than 100% fit?

it’s not exactly a new subject either;

Nov 20

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18878617.injury-blow-rovers-defender-international-duty/

July 20

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18155315.mowbray-offers-explanation-nyambes-recurring-injuries/
 

December 19

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-mowbray-brentford-championship-19411373

March 19

https://www.namibian.com.na/186428/archive-read/Nyambe-commits-to-Namibia-unavailable-until-August

October 18

https://the72.co.uk/116777/only-one-injury-doubt-for-tony-mowbray-ahead-of-blackburn-rovers-tie-with-bolton/

etc

 

[LDRover]

1 minute ago, JBiz said:

Less than 100% fit?

it’s not exactly a new subject either;

Nov 20

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18878617.injury-blow-rovers-defender-international-duty/

July 20

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18155315.mowbray-offers-explanation-nyambes-recurring-injuries/
 

December 19

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-mowbray-brentford-championship-19411373

March 19

https://www.namibian.com.na/186428/archive-read/Nyambe-commits-to-Namibia-unavailable-until-August

October 18

https://the72.co.uk/116777/only-one-injury-doubt-for-tony-mowbray-ahead-of-blackburn-rovers-tie-with-bolton/

etc

 

So don't put him on the bench then. If he's not fit to start, he's not fit to play as far as I'm concerned.

Seems you're trying to justify Mowbray's handling of someone he wants rid of. Everything points to that and I don't recall any urgency from the manager to tie him down to another deal. Too late now, he'll be off.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, LDRover said:

So don't put him on the bench then. If he's not fit to start, he's not fit to play as far as I'm concerned.

Seems you're trying to justify Mowbray's handling of someone he wants rid of. Everything points to that and I don't recall any urgency from the manager to tie him down to another deal. Too late now, he'll be off.

I’m not sure how you managed to come to that conclusion, just sounds like more classic BRFCS “if you don’t agree you must be justifying your agenda bla bla bla”

There’s plenty of reasons why Nyambe hasn’t been consistently available, but fans are welcome to make their own mind up.

For me, niggling injuries and a high impact and energy style of playing can take their toll. It makes a lot more sense than the classic “TM fancies Benno LOL”

 

[tomphil]

We either have a Hoilett situation with Nyambe where he'd have to be offered a lot to resign or another similar to Raya but with the contract ticking down.

One or the other for me i think it's been clear for over a year.