Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, LDRover said:

Yes, like you say, 'we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes' so you are speculating based on what you think, I'm speculating based on what I perceive his treatment by the manager to be (criticism in the press, non selection etc) and past experience (Hoilett).

He has started most games under Mowbray I bet. Not sure he was criticized very much ,but going off his recent performances, maybe it worked. Using Hoilett as "evidence" in this situation doesn't hold up. Different player, different manager, different situation. 

He could sign a contract next week and nobody would be losing their minds due to the sheer surprise of it! We just don't know what's happening with his contract. What we do know is Nyambe is starting and playing well for the manager. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

The most shocking thing about the whole Nyambe situation is that when we last gave him an extension it was just a one year extension. Given that at the time he signed it he was second choice behind Bennett, you'd have to conclude that either Mowbray only wanted to give him a one year extension as he didn't have much faith in him or Nyambe only wanted to sign an extra year because he wasn't getting the game time he deserved. Either way the blame has to lie with the manager. Even now he's only starting every week because JRC is injured.

Of course. Even if Nyambe doesn't want to sign, Mowbray clearly needs to over power him , get a pen in his hand and guide him to sign the contract.

[Sparks Rover]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What we do know is Nyambe is starting and playing well for the manager. 

Which makes it all the more strange that he has not  been tied down to a long term deal.  Even if it's to just get a fee for him.

Classic signs of a player that is leaving.  I'll be shocked but happy if he's turning out next season for us.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Of course. Even if Nyambe doesn't want to sign, Mowbray clearly needs to over power him , get a pen in his hand and guide him to sign the contract.

Read the post again. I am talking about the blame lying with the manager for him only signing a 1 year extension in the first place which has led us to this situation.

[Blue blood]

3 hours ago, JBiz said:

How long have you been a physio man! 
 

We don’t know for sure exactly who’s fit and when they’re not injured.....

 

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

The two most recent droppings of Nyambe have been because his confidence was low (Millwall last season) and Wycombe this season when Mowbray left him out 'because his numbers were too high'. His logic was that Nyambe could get injured because he was working too hard. Contrast that to allowing Williams to play after leaving the decision to the player.

Yes those two decisions alone show it clearly is poor treatment of Nayambe. 

And the Williams and others playing when not fully fit kiboshes any idea of it being solely fitness related.

And if you go back even further what about when Caddis was preferred? 

You'd also have a hard time justifying the criticism of Nayambe in the press compared to other players.  

I get not looking for a stick to beat the manager with but I think his treatment of Nayambe is probably one of his clearer cut mistakes. 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

 

Yes those two decisions alone show it clearly is poor treatment of Nayambe. 

And the Williams and others playing when not fully fit kiboshes any idea of it being solely fitness related.

And if you go back even further what about when Caddis was preferred? 

You'd also have a hard time justifying the criticism of Nayambe in the press compared to other players.  

I get not looking for a stick to beat the manager with but I think his treatment of Nayambe is probably one of his clearer cut mistakes. 

I don’t buy it.

Nyambe has not been “treat badly” in my opinion, at any point of his rovers career.

If he chooses to go abroad for free despite the opportunity and experience he’s been given here, then that says more about him and his agent than our club IMO.

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

Read the post again. I am talking about the blame lying with the manager for him only signing a 1 year extension in the first place which has led us to this situation.

Do you think we wanted to sign a 22 year old with potential on a 1 year extension or do you think that might have been a result on not being able to agree a full new deal?

I accept some might expect the club to get everything right and hold every card, in every situation -  I would be annoyed but not surprised if the case is about money and Ryan maximising his potential earnings - especially when he’s known for having injuries.

Edited December 18, 2020 by JBiz

[Blue blood]

12 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I don’t buy it.

Nyambe has not been “treat badly” in my opinion, at any point of his rovers career.

If he chooses to go abroad for free despite the opportunity and experience he’s been given here, then that says more about him and his agent than our club IMO.

 

Which bit aren't you buying? I mean I appreciate its different but I cannot see anyone being happy with being called out by their boss when others aren't, nor not being given important pieces of work because of spurious reasons. Do you really think numbers too high and low on confidence are good reasons to drop a player?.I'd also be peeved in work if weaker colleagues gor opportunities I didn't. Genuinely I don't think many people would be happy in that environment. 

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Which bit aren't you buying? I mean I appreciate its different but I cannot see anyone being happy with being called out by their boss when others aren't, nor not being given important pieces of work because of spurious reasons. Do you really think numbers too high and low on confidence are good reasons to drop a player?.I'd also be peeved in work if weaker colleagues gor opportunities I didn't. Genuinely I don't think many people would be happy in that environment. 

I don’t buy that he’s been treated any differently.
 

What examples can you give to suggest otherwise? If he’s being specifically called out in post match interview regularly, it shouldn’t take you long to prove your point.

[simongarnerisgod]

losing nyambe,possibly the best right back in the division,for nothing would be a shamefully poor piece of management at all levels of the club,if mowbray is going to replace him with jrc,then we all might as well give it up and forget about ever progressing,nothing against jrc,but he is`nt a full back,in fact i don`t think even mowbray knows his best position

[Ewood Ace]

28 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Do you think we wanted to sign a 22 year old with potential on a 1 year extension or do you think that might have been a result on not being able to agree a full new deal?

If you read my original post I said that it was probably because of one of two reasons why he only signed an extra year. Either Mowbray didn't have much faith in him or Nyambe only wanted to sign an extra year because he wasn't getting the game time he deserved. Lets remember when he signed his extension he was behind Bennett in the pecking order at right back. Even now he is only starting week in and week out because JRC is injured.

 

[roversfan99]

38 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I don’t buy it.

Nyambe has not been “treat badly” in my opinion, at any point of his rovers career.

If he chooses to go abroad for free despite the opportunity and experience he’s been given here, then that says more about him and his agent than our club IMO.

Do you think we wanted to sign a 22 year old with potential on a 1 year extension or do you think that might have been a result on not being able to agree a full new deal?

I accept some might expect the club to get everything right and hold every card, in every situation -  I would be annoyed but not surprised if the case is about money and Ryan maximising his potential earnings - especially when he’s known for having injuries.

Why would it say more about him and his agent if he chose to move abroad? Im not sure you could hold that against him if he did to further his career.

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Why would it say more about him and his agent if he chose to move abroad? Im not sure you could hold that against him if he did to further his career.

Yea I don’t think any of us could do to be honest. I think it would suggest he and his agent are trying to maximise his next contract - and all of us would probably do something similar 

[Blue blood]

8 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I don’t buy that he’s been treated any differently.
 

What examples can you give to suggest otherwise? If he’s being specifically called out in post match interview regularly, it shouldn’t take you long to prove your point.

You are asking me to go through three years plus of match interviews? No chance. Doesn't mean the evidence isn't there but that I have a life. 

The examples.have been stated as being called out in the press, assumed that's common knowledge and has been discussed regularly on here, poor reasons for being dropped (see just a couple of posts above for specifics) and lesser players playing e.g. Caddis. That's a fair bit of evidence.

If you want to check Nayambe's criticisms in the press Vs Bennett say that's fine by me. If you won't accept any evidence until a link has been posted I think there wouldn't be much conversation on this board or in the pub for that matter (when w are allowed back in). 

 

 

 

 

 

[JBiz]

13 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

You are asking me to go through three years plus of match interviews? No chance. Doesn't mean the evidence isn't there but that I have a life. 

The examples.have been stated as being called out in the press, assumed that's common knowledge and has been discussed regularly on here, poor reasons for being dropped (see just a couple of posts above for specifics) and lesser players playing e.g. Caddis. That's a fair bit of evidence.

If you want to check Nayambe's criticisms in the press Vs Bennett say that's fine by me. If you won't accept any evidence until a link has been posted I think there wouldn't be much conversation on this board or in the pub for that matter (when w are allowed back in). 

 

 

 

 

 

There’s loads of stuff discussed here as if it’s gospel - that probably isn’t anywhere near the actually reality of the scenario.

Equally I can’t say for certain that Nyambe hasn’t been specifically targeted by TM in interviews - but I can say that I listen to most and I can’t ever recall a comment specifically against a player that I felt unfair.

He has criticised Rothwell, Armstrong in his early days, Williams, and Bell much more from my recollections.

The selection debate is (I know this word isn’t a popular BRFCS one 😆) subjective. Whilst I’d agree and argue along with you that I think he is our best right back - none of us can dismiss how prone to knocks he is.

With all the analysis and sport science data available to teams now, it’s easy for me to think supporters don’t know the whole story about why he hasn’t had more than 31 apps in a season yet.

Edited December 18, 2020 by JBiz

[Bigdoggsteel]

20 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Read the post again. I am talking about the blame lying with the manager for him only signing a 1 year extension in the first place which has led us to this situation.

It's Nyambes decision. We don't know the ins and outs of it. So I don't see how the manager is automatically the one to blame. 

[47er]

32 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's Nyambes decision. We don't know the ins and outs of it

Isn't that self-contradictory?

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, 47er said:

Isn't that self-contradictory?

What do you mean? Who else's decision is it? Or are you insinuating there is no offer? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18767240.rovers-dont-envisage-contract-concerns-defender/

Surely this dispells the conspiracy theories Mowbray wants Nyambe out?

 

[rigger]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18767240.rovers-dont-envisage-contract-concerns-defender/

Surely this dispells the conspiracy theories Mowbray wants Nyambe out?

 

Only if you believe what you read. 

[Blue blood]

18 hours ago, JBiz said:

There’s loads of stuff discussed here as if it’s gospel - that probably isn’t anywhere near the actually reality of the scenario.

Oh I don't doubt. My recollection of it is though that a lot of comments about TMs treatment of Nayambe was in response to comments in LT articles that were linked. Again can't be bothered to travel back, however am fairly certain in this case (as I remember reading them!) that TM had commented on Nayambe's performances. 

18 hours ago, JBiz said:

Equally I can’t say for certain that Nyambe hasn’t been specifically targeted by TM in interviews - but I can say that I listen to most and I can’t ever recall a comment specifically against a player that I felt unfair.

I guess it depends on if it is done to all players or just some. IF it is all I would probably agree with you - nothing unfair at all. If only to some, and the worse culprits ignored, it's a different matter. 

18 hours ago, JBiz said:

He has criticised Rothwell, Armstrong in his early days, Williams, and Bell much more from my recollections. 

Must have missed the Williams one but outside of that, that's my recollection too. Would also add in Raya, and then very belatedly Walton too. Interesting that Bennett, Smallwood and Mulgrew aren't in that list despite many dire performances. Smacks to me of double standards. 

18 hours ago, JBiz said:

The selection debate is (I know this word isn’t a popular BRFCS one 😆) subjective. Whilst I’d agree and argue along with you that I think he is our best right back - none of us can dismiss how prone to knocks he is.

Would agree with all this. 

18 hours ago, JBiz said:

With all the analysis and sport science data available to teams now, it’s easy for me to think supporters don’t know the whole story about why he hasn’t had more than 31 apps in a season yet.

Agree we don't know the whole story, and there will have been times he needed resting. However I think the poor treatment is a cumulative effect based on all the evidence. You've alluded to yourself that some players avoid criticism, we both agree he is the best right back at the club, Williams and Ayala have been thrown in when scarcely fit.l, some of the reasons given for his omission are laughable. All of which together suggests poor treatment. Any one would be a tad tenuous I agree but all 3/4 strands together and it doesn't look good at all. 

[JHRover]

If Nyambe is able to leave this club for nothing, or for some token compensation fee in January, then for me it really blows a massive hole in the way Mowbray has claimed to have been running the club for the last 3-4 years. 

Its all well and good banging on about FFP rules, reducing reliance on Venkys, using the academy, growing assets for the club, protecting our assets, having to find ways to compete against clubs with bigger crowds and incomes etc. etc. etc. 

But if we are still going to end up in a position of losing arguably, along with Travis, our most promising academy product of the last 3-4 years for next to nothing or nothing because we haven't dealt with the contractual scenario quickly or adequately enough then all the above comes crashing down, because it is clear that the owners/club haven't learned from past mistakes and are still costing the club money through negligence and poor operation.

I'm afraid those suggesting that we are powerless if Nyambe doesn't want to sign are ignoring the bigger issues and questions here.

Why on earth would Nyambe not want to commit to the club he has been at since a kid and should now be a regular first teamer?

What sort of financial package are we offering the lad if it isn't enough to persuade him to sign? How serious are we?

Why have we allowed him to reach the final 6 months of his deal without it being resolved?

Why did Mowbray say back in September that he was dealing with contracts and keeping space in the budget for those extensions and yet here we are at Christmas with no new contracts issued?

This club frustrates the hell out of me. Only this week Mike Cheston whinging about limited cash and budgets when talking about power washing grime off the stands at Ewood and players pleading with fans to buy hats and scarves to support their club and yet on the flip side dishing out needless contract extensions to Hart, Smallwood, Samuel and then allowing this situation to develop with a prized asset. Madness.

[Mattyblue]

That article BDS posted was nearly 3 months ago, the contract has run down even further and Nyambe’s performances have got better and better... not a good position to be in from a club negotiator perspective.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

35 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Why on earth would Nyambe not want to commit to the club he has been at since a kid and should now be a regular first teamer?

What sort of financial package are we offering the lad if it isn't enough to persuade him to sign? How serious are we?

Why have we allowed him to reach the final 6 months of his deal without it being resolved?

Cos he want to a different league or country for his next career move? 

If he wont sign a new contract then we are powerless to get him to sign? 

What sort of contract is he after in any new deal and what's his current wage? 

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos he want to a different league or country for his next career move? 

If he wont sign a new contract then we are powerless to get him to sign? 

What sort of contract is he after in any new deal and what's his current wage? 

Hang on a minute, you said the exact opposite for AA... you said Armstrong should sign a new contract because he owes a debt of gratitude to the club that has improved him and he likes working with Mowbray.

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos he want to a different league or country for his next career move? 

If he wont sign a new contract then we are powerless to get him to sign? 

What sort of contract is he after in any new deal and what's his current wage? 

What country? What league? Surely if he had such intentions then that should have been dealt with last summer rather than allowing him to go for nothing?

Why is Mowbray still claiming to be confident of him signing?

As ever no responsibility nor accountability for anything here. Stand to lose millions but roll up roll up buy your hats and scarves.