Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Cherry Blue said:

Defeat on Saturday v Boro' will surely see the end of TM. Not a fan of his selection, his tactics, or his transfer window failures. On his plus side he got us from Div 1 to Championship, his level. 

You reckon? I doubt he’d even be close to the door.

Fan wise, he may get a ‘Tony, sort it out’ and some boos, but no mass revolt at this stage.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I agree we should have inquest into why we didnt get targets we want. Whether it was down to transfer fee, wages demands, fees being higher than we thought. 

I dont know why Venus is involved in things like that. 

How does Waggott have little power? Why he is the making the deal? Everyone report to him apart from Pasha? 

Mowbray has said he had nothing to do with Waggott appointment. Do you trust his word? 

You have seen my views on the structure and what I would like to happen. Do you agree my view? 

Think he was talking about our opening few games like Fulham, Cardiff, Boro and WBA

What has actually happened at the club since Waggott arrived other than attempts to increase income? 

No I don't take Mowbray's word for it on the Waggott appointment. At the very least he put in a good word for him which led to Waggott getting the job. Too much of a coincidence otherwise. 

I cant really remember what you said about what you would like to happen. 

Our opening games are tough - Fulham got beat by Barnsley and only just edged us out, Cardiff lost at Wigan and narrowly edged past Luton, Middlesbrough have one draw and two defeats from Luton, Brentford and Crewe. West Brom have drawn and lost home games against Millwall this week.

Why are they 'tough games' when Luton, Millwall, Barnsley and Wigan all did ok out of them? Are they going to be 'tough games' too?

Edited August 15, 2019 by JHRover

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

14 minutes ago, Cherry Blue said:

Defeat on Saturday v Boro' will surely see the end of TM. Not a fan of his selection, his tactics, or his transfer window failures. On his plus side he got us from Div 1 to Championship, his level. 

I absolutely promise you that Mowbray will not be leaving if we lose on Saturday, do yourself a favour and get that out of your head. 

[Cherry Blue]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You reckon? I doubt he’d even be close to the door.

Fan wise, he may get a ‘Tony, sort it out’ and some boos, but no mass revolt at this stage.

 

Just now, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I absolutely promise you that Mowbray will not be leaving if we lose on Saturday, do yourself a favour and get that out of your head. 

I just don't want to go through this season counting the points we could have won. Wishful thinking on my part.

[Paul Mellelieu]

4 hours ago, philipl said:

MULGREW bust up and ejection that afternoon confirmed by multiple sources

LENIHAN still conjecture

SMALLWOOD toys out of pram at Ewood Tuesday night according to some who saw it

GENERAL PLAYER UNEASE seems to be seeping out

MOWBRAY increasingly isolated within the club is like a bad smell that won't go away

MOWBRAY demeanour haunted- just look at the videos

RICH SHARPE exasperation- look at the occasional tweet which goes out when he can't control himself. A classic about positions players being asked to play after the substitutions v Oldham

Not much in that Philip.

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

What has actually happened at the club since Waggott arrived other than attempts to increase income? 

No I don't take Mowbray's word for it on the Waggott appointment. At the very least he put in a good word for him which led to Waggott getting the job. Too much of a coincidence otherwise. 

I cant really remember what you said about what you would like to happen. 

Our opening games are tough - Fulham got beat by Barnsley and only just edged us out, Cardiff lost at Wigan and narrowly edged past Luton, Middlesbrough have one draw and two defeats from Luton, Brentford and Crewe. West Brom have drawn and lost home games against Millwall this week.

Why are they 'tough games' when Luton, Millwall, Barnsley and Wigan all did ok out of them? Are they going to be 'tough games' too?

I think every game at this level is tough and every team offer different problems whether its Cardiff to a Barnsley let say. Thats what makes this league for me. 

I spoke about a Sporting director/head coach structure being employ by the club. Similar to Norwich or Brentford structure. So the head coach can focus more on coaching the team and less focus recruitment but still making the final decision who we sign with the sporting director. Whilst Sporting Director focus on recriitnent, scouting and negotiating transfer deals. We have have 2 director of football during Venkys time. Shebby Singh and Paul Senior. 

 

[Stuart]

There is a danger that this starts to become like Bowyer and Kean before him (in a slightly different context) in that fans will get angry and react to our continued failure and then nothing will change. At that point, fan apathy will set in.

Mowbray has already set his stall out that he has written off August because we are playing teams with top 6 aspirations. It’s such defeatist talk. Lower end teams beat higher end ones all the time in this division. Mowbray may be a positive football man but he’s a very negative football manager.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Stuart
Mowbray!

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

19 minutes ago, Cherry Blue said:

 

I just don't want to go through this season counting the points we could have won. Wishful thinking on my part.

Yeah I get it, it's painful. I've written this season off rightly or wrongly, it's helped with my Rovers related anger levels. In my head it'll be DJ leading us next year with a talented young squad that'll make a decent run at the play offs. Mowbray ain't getting us anywhere near them. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Good point. That was a row that had been simmering away for quite a while.

An odd situation for Charlie who now it would seem has more of an International future than a League one.

He will never, IMO, appear again in a Rovers shirt whilst Mowbray rules the roost.

I'm not saying he should either as no question his legs have gone but I don't like the way that is used by some as a justification for the way his departure has been handled by Mowbray.

Personally, I think he went to allow Cunningham in, 1 for 1, but also sure Wigan got a good deal.

Be interesting to see if they use him the way he should've been being used here since last Christmas and how he handles it.

[Adam C]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Good point. That was a row that had been simmering away for quite a while.

An odd situation for Charlie who now it would seem has more of an International future than a League one.

He will never, IMO, appear again in a Rovers shirt whilst Mowbray rules the roost.

I'm not saying he should either as no question his legs have gone but I don't like the way that is used by some as a justification for the way his departure has been handled by Mowbray.

Personally, I think he went to allow Cunningham in, 1 for 1, but also sure Wigan got a good deal.

So you’re glad that Mowbray shifted Mulgrew out but you don’t want any credit to go to Mowbray for the decision....

[Blue blood]

Just now, The Hypnotic said:

So you’re glad that Mowbray shifted Mulgrew out but you don’t want any credit to go to Mowbray for the decision....

Or concerns are raised at the last minute and seemingly unplanned nature of it - doesn't seem on the face of it that it was an ability assessment that led to this (still captain and starting in first game of the season, it being out of the blue.) Even that is forgivable but not sourcing a replacement is terrible. 

[USABlue]

I am afraid his time is up.  More of the same, should be out out to pasture now as it's clear he has taken us as far as he is capable of.  

[Adam C]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Or concerns are raised at the last minute and seemingly unplanned nature of it - doesn't seem on the face of it that it was an ability assessment that led to this (still captain and starting in first game of the season, it being out of the blue.) Even that is forgivable but not sourcing a replacement is terrible. 

By ignoring all the hearsay and conjecture that is going about, it is possible to see this as something that was kept under wraps until it was finalised at the last minute.

Sadly I don’t see it like that, I think Wigan got a good deal and we had to accept it to free up some cash and a squad place. 

It’s pretty worrying that we are so threadbare in defence going into the new season but I don’t put the blame at Mowbray’s door, I think he is being forced to work with his hands tied. I don’t see how a different coach would change things, the structure and foundations of our club are still rotten so very little good can come our way. 

[tomphil]

Just now, The Hypnotic said:

By ignoring all the hearsay and conjecture that is going about, it is possible to see this as something that was kept under wraps until it was finalised at the last minute.

Sadly I don’t see it like that, I think Wigan got a good deal and we had to accept it to free up some cash and a squad place. 

It’s pretty worrying that we are so threadbare in defence going into the new season but I don’t put the blame at Mowbray’s door, I think he is being forced to work with his hands tied. I don’t see how a different coach would change things, the structure and foundations of our club are still rotten so very little good can come our way. 

But he managed to untie his hands long enough to get the Downing deal done soon enough and got them to sanction wages for a guy who was on at least 30k pwk at Boro, 

No matter how well he might or might not do it'll only be for a season or so and to me that's money down the drain that should've been directed into a more pressing area of then team, not for the first time under this manager so to absolve him totally is a bit of a stretch.

[DE.]

If we're ignoring hearsay and conjecture then we can only go by what Mowbray and Waggot have told us - namely that the budget was roughly the same as last summer (circa £10m) and the Raya money was being added to the budget. So with SG's transfer being taken into account that would only be a net spend of £2m against a supposed transfer budget of £10m, leaving £8m. I'm not including wages in that purely because last year's £10m did not include wages either.

We also had Mowbray telling us money was available in January and he chose not to spend it. He and Waggott have also always said that the owners are backing them 100% and releasing funds when asked for. So based off those comments we really have no choice but to lay the blame for our obvious squad imbalance at Mowbray's door, irrespective of the suspicions most of us have about how transfers really operate at Ewood.

[JacknOry]

2 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

By ignoring all the hearsay and conjecture that is going about, it is possible to see this as something that was kept under wraps until it was finalised at the last minute.

Sadly I don’t see it like that, I think Wigan got a good deal and we had to accept it to free up some cash and a squad place. 

It’s pretty worrying that we are so threadbare in defence going into the new season but I don’t put the blame at Mowbray’s door, I think he is being forced to work with his hands tied. I don’t see how a different coach would change things, the structure and foundations of our club are still rotten so very little good can come our way. 

He has previous for it though. I am not completely against the fact his hands might be tied but you go back to his previous clubs and he has done very similar. Stockpiles midfielders and strikers and takes massive risks with his defence. 

Its illogical anyway, how are our forward thinking 'investments going to shine' and thus make profit, going to do so with a league 1 defence? 

My theory, he wasn't backed as much as he wanted. They expected more from the 7mil chucked at BB - which is looking more the disaster by the day and cut it back this season. Seems he wanted Gallagher last season too hence his comments in the press at that time and Waggots now. Had the money to spend so got shafted by a Forest agent at the last minute. 

Fast forward to this season, knew BB wasnt up to it, so still chased SG. So now we have two forwards that cannot oust a 34-year old DG right now and no defence. 

i wouldnt mind if he sets teams up to attack in order to take advantage of the fact we dont give a fuck about defence, but he doesnt.

Edited August 15, 2019 by JacknOry

[Adam C]

Just now, JacknOry said:

He has previous for it though. I am not completely against the fact his hands might be tied but you go back to his previous clubs and he has done very similar. Stockpiles midfielders and strikers and takes massive risks with his defence. 

Its illogical anyway, how are our forward thinking 'investments going to shine' and thus make profit, going to do so with a league 1 defence? 

My theory, he wasn't backed as much as he wanted. They expected more from the 7mil chucked at BB - which is looking more the disaster by the day and cut it back this season. Seems he wanted Gallagher last season too hence his comments in the press at that time and Waggots now. Had the money to spend so got shafted by a Forest agent at the last minute. 

Fast forward to this season, knew BB wasnt up to it, so still chased SG. So now we have two forwards that cannot oust a 34-year old DG right now and no defence. 

i wouldnt mind if he sets teams up to attack in order to take advantage of the fact we dont give a fuck about defence, but he doesnt.

Yeah tbf someone posted a Celtic player criticising Mowbray and it was scary seeing how many parallels there are between his failure and Celtic and what is happening at our club, so I can see where you’re coming from. You could also be on to something about the failure of the brereton transfer and subsequent tightening of the purse strings.

 

i find it incredibly frustrating that we are owned by billionaires that are unwilling to spend decent money on our team. Well other than massive fees for underperforming strikers. 

[Paul]

3 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

No way Wigan are paying the full wage bill. I bet they got a good deal that late in the day at the end of the window

You bet? Is that the extent of your evidence or argument? The figure isn't even mine, it's conjecture posted by someone else.

[Crimpshrine]

Just now, Paul said:

You bet? Is that the extent of your evidence or argument? The figure isn't even mine, it's conjecture posted by someone else.

Yes that is the extent of my evidence and argument. It's an expression !

My opinion is that they won't be paying all his wages. Sorry if that offends you.

[Paul]

Just now, Crimpshrine said:

Yes that is the extent of my evidence and argument. It's an expression !

My opinion is that they won't be paying all his wages. Sorry if that offends you.

No it doesn't offend me at all. It is though just conjecture. From another view we have our manager saying how difficult it is to loan PL players as the PL clubs expect their wages to be paid in full. On that basis there is no reason why Rovers would not expect Wigan to pay his full wage. If £1.25m is the going rate for a CB in the Championship it's a good deal for Wigan as they have no transfer fee, agent's fee or signing on fee to fund. Plus they can send Charlie back at the end of the season. Win, win.

[Exiled in Toronto]

24 minutes ago, DE. said:

If we're ignoring hearsay and conjecture then we can only go by what Mowbray and Waggot have told us - namely that the budget was roughly the same as last summer (circa £10m) and the Raya money was being added to the budget. So with SG's transfer being taken into account that would only be a net spend of £2m against a supposed transfer budget of £10m, leaving £8m. I'm not including wages in that purely because last year's £10m did not include wages either.

We also had Mowbray telling us money was available in January and he chose not to spend it. He and Waggott have also always said that the owners are backing them 100% and releasing funds when asked for. So based off those comments we really have no choice but to lay the blame for our obvious squad imbalance at Mowbray's door, irrespective of the suspicions most of us have about how transfers really operate at Ewood.

Been thinking about this. Technically the summer budget was nowhere near that as Brereton was signed on loan and only bought in the following window. So maybe the two summer windows had quite similar budgets.

[Paul Mellelieu]

The calculations above exclude loan fees we can be paying for Tosin, Wlaton and Cunningham.

[47er]

8 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

I never get it when people call him ‘dour’ or ‘boring’. He seems enormously passionate to me, almost naive in his enthusiasm for the game.  

I imagine he takes poor runs of results extremely badly.

So I can certainly believe that.

His football is dour and boring though. If he is passionate in his enthusiasm it doesn't translate to the pitch.

[Mattyblue]

Don’t disagree.

I was talking about his way with the players. You can imagine all the jumpers for goalposts stuff at Brockhall when things are going well, and a real mood shift when results turn.

[JHRover]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

The calculations above exclude loan fees we can be paying for Tosin, Wlaton and Cunningham.

I keep hearing about these. If we are committed to paying substantial 'fees' to borrow those players then that makes our transfer policy even more ludicrous. The only benefit to going down the loan route is that it avoids the need to shell out a substantial transfer fee, if we're still shelling out substantial fees just to borrow those players for 12 months and will have to spend again to replace them next summer then it becomes even more bonkers short termism. 

I saw someone say that Tosin was costing £1 million+ to borrow from Man City. If that's true then I wonder what the hell we are playing at. I am certain for £1 million+ we could have found a CB of good standard who we could own and build around for 2-3 years.