Tony Mowbray Discussion

[JBiz]

44 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

I haven’t been his biggest fan at times but I find myself asking the current doubting Thomases, just who do you think can take us further forward?

I do not see a manager that is available to fit this Rovers set up.

I am still in the opinion this is last season to make the step up the “expectation” requires - however I’m becoming more convinced that we won’t make that.

I don’t put it all down to him though. It’s not an easy job, despite what some think here - it’s easy to understand why rovers fans expect more though when the club has had a decent level of support recently - and teams like Brentford with similar wage bills but less turnover are consistently better than us.

That said, I think any future project potentially needs a specific coach for bringing players through the academy. I know many wouldn’t be too happy - but DJ has been in promoted to a 1st team, and perhaps is a good choice should TMs time be up.

That project would have to be 2 or 3 years though, and if we’re talking a less risky / long term idea on selecting a manager - I would hope the clubs analyst and scouting department has a list of European potential managers like the next unknown versions of the Farke, Warner, Nuno Gomes etc.

 

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Absolutely typical of Rovers though. Everyone gets giddy when we go 2-0 up at Brentford, and then the wheels come off in spectacular fashion.

At least Wigan were around to give us something to be thankful for during that period.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

I am still in the opinion this is last season to make the step up the “expectation” requires - however I’m becoming more convinced that we won’t make that.

I don’t put it all down to him though. It’s not an easy job, despite what some think here - it’s easy to understand why rovers fans expect more though when the club has had a decent level of support recently - and teams like Brentford with similar wage bills but less turnover are consistently better than us.

That said, I think any future project potentially needs a specific coach for bringing players through the academy. I know many wouldn’t be too happy - but DJ has been in promoted to a 1st team, and perhaps is a good choice should TMs time be up.

That project would have to be 2 or 3 years though, and if we’re talking a less risky / long term idea on selecting a manager - I would hope the clubs analyst and scouting department has a list of European potential managers like the next unknown versions of the Farke, Warner, Nuno Gomes etc.

 

Said something similar around this stage last season.  Get that one finished in another respectable position, another year re-established and more time in some players. Then make a change to try and propel it forwards or even just shuffle the deck but anything to try and put a bit of freshness into it.

That would need planning to start half way through the current season though. Those above looking around, sounding people out, coming up with a plan. All we have here though is just hit and hope from every summer when the fresh budget is agreed.

It's Tony's hamster wheel and he'll keep spinning it as long as he wants.

[nuttyrover]

How is it everyone was hyped after the transfer window but now criticising player recruitment? 🤔

[Paul Mani]

Anyone got a stream for u23 match tonight?? 

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, nuttyrover said:

How is it everyone was hyped after the transfer window but now criticising player recruitment? 🤔

Maybe because the manager isn't getting the best out of them ?

Just a thought.

[RevidgeBlue]

8 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I haven’t been his biggest fan at times but I find myself asking the current doubting Thomases, just who do you think can take us further forward?

I do not see a manager that is available to fit this Rovers set up.

Lazy argument.

Bilic, Pearson.

There's 2.

Pay them enough, they will come.

One of the owners main problems has been that whilst they don't seem to mind their money being wasted on most things, they have never really with the possible exception of Lambert invested heavily in probably the most important man at the Club, the manager.

Hence the reason we're now stuck in permanent no-man's land (at best) with Gary Bowyer Mark 2.

[RevidgeBlue]

16 minutes ago, nuttyrover said:

How is it everyone was hyped after the transfer window but now criticising player recruitment? 🤔

Didnt realise everyone was.

[1864roverite]

40 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Lazy argument.

Bilic, Pearson.

There's 2.

Pay them enough, they will come.

One of the owners main problems has been that whilst they don't seem to mind their money being wasted on most things, they have never really with the possible exception of Lambert invested heavily in probably the most important man at the Club, the manager.

Hence the reason we're now stuck in permanent no-man's land (at best) with Gary Bowyer Mark 2.

Lazy argument? Are you pissed Simon?

Bilic nor Pearson would not come to Rovers as it stands. Money is a big issue on that score. Both would want financial backing and Rovers are unable to provide that.

Looking around, I do not see another candidate who is available and who could take us forward.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

43 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Lazy argument? Are you pissed Simon?

Bilic nor Pearson would not come to Rovers as it stands. Money is a big issue on that score. Both would want financial backing and Rovers are unable to provide that.

Looking around, I do not see another candidate who is available and who could take us forward.

 

Not really sure where you're coming from apart from taking a contrary point of view. If the owners really wanted to spend several million pounds a year hiring either of the above they could easily afford to do so and if you lost Mulgrew Bennett and Evans off the wage bill that would more or less cover the cost.

The problem is they have seemingly never really understood the importance of the manager and probably think it's just a "coach" that stands on the side of the pitch setting the team up. A job anyone could do, hence replacing Allardyce with Kean and since then plumping for cheaper (potentially) up and coming  or out of work managers - as was Mowbray.

[LDRover]

10 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I haven’t been his biggest fan at times but I find myself asking the current doubting Thomases, just who do you think can take us further forward?

I do not see a manager that is available to fit this Rovers set up.

Thing is, before Mowbray was appointed I defy anybody to say they'd have been happy with him as manager.

[imy9]

The top 7 in the league is an interesting bunch of clubs.

Top two have been relegated recently and have funds that are incomparable to us.

Swansea were relegated a few seasons ago but still have parachute payments and a 20 million pound striker.

Brentford have amassed a fortune thorough their signings and obviously have an amazing scouting network to get all their top notch players.

Watford recently relegated and same as Bournemouth and Norwich.

Stoke, parachute payments and still able to play 18 million pound defenders.

My only massive surprise is Boro.

My point is yes I expect better from this squad, but Mowbray bought the players, introduced the youth and has rebuilt the club. I'd say the majority of the top seven have better squads than us so we are roughly where we should be.

That said I'd give him until the end of the season and then appoint someone else. The old managers that have done the rounds should be avoided and id like an up and coming manager from the lower leagues.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, imy9 said:

My only massive surprise is Boro

You make some fair points but I would say that it was as inevitable as night follows day that Warnock would turn Boro roundand get them in the mix almost instantly.

Like him or loathe him Warnock is a manager who knows what he's doing and what is required.

Unlike ours who either doesn't know what is required or quite simply doesn't care as long as he can string things out for a while with tales of "slow builds".

My main surprise is actually the lack of impact Hughton is having at Forest.

[Ulrich]

Not grabbing Warnock when we had a chance was silly, he is doing well at Middlesbrough. 

The trouble is we can talk all we want about TM, the owners are donkeys and never act swiftly.  We are at their mercy over TM he won't go to quickly, as dack and Arma will make TM their best financial gaffer yet. He could well be here for a while yet. 

[roversfan99]

Even if it was agreed that we "are where we should be," which is an incredibly flawed statement in that Mowbray has had more time than any other manager in the league, (bar Ainsworth) the luxury of no key player sales, a competitive budget and there is also the fact that results havent improved in spite of obvious tangible personnel improvements to the playing squad. Being where we should be is of little use. Even if you considered the top 6 to be overachievement, which again makes the publically agreed objective of a top 6 finish not only this season but last season bizarre, then overachievement is what we need. In a league that I think lacks quality in the main to be honest, the scope for improvement from where we are to the top 6 and the reward that brings is much less of a gap compared to the amount we would need to fall to be in serious danger amidst the crap at the bottom. People will point to the previous relegation but that was not long after an embargo, with a skeleton squad and with a manager who was particularly poor to the point that he had no interest in tactics and team shape.

[roversfan99]

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Edited December 21, 2020 by roversfan99

[JHRover]

The minute we accept that we are 'where we should be' whether that be on budget/squad this season or more generally club size and general pecking order is the point at which we should give up.

I suspect it is that sort of mentality that will see the club exiled from the top division for 20 odd years like it was in the 70s and 80s before someone came in and forced a change in mentality.

Sadly this seems to be exactly the attitude that Mowbray is now trying to foster in telling people that we are punching above our weight and struggle to compete against the behemoths above us.

I just wish Sharp and co. would ask Mowbray to explain the Middlesbrough but then again he'll probably say that's because they're a massive club.

Personally I'll always strive for better for my club and expect to see work being done to achieve that. This is especially the case when I witness the likes of Burnley, Palace and Brighton as established Premier League sides. The day I'm happy with second tier and treading water each season is the day it is time to give up on following competitive sport.

[SoldierMo]

This league as can be seen from previous promoted teams...you keep and start with a solid backline to get out of this league..have a solid team and you got more than half a chance...but our genius does nkt and never has prioritised the defence...bloody took him a season just to replace Raya

[darrenrover]

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

The minute we accept that we are 'where we should be' whether that be on budget/squad this season or more generally club size and general pecking order is the point at which we should give up.

I suspect it is that sort of mentality that will see the club exiled from the top division for 20 odd years like it was in the 70s and 80s before someone came in and forced a change in mentality.

Sadly this seems to be exactly the attitude that Mowbray is now trying to foster in telling people that we are punching above our weight and struggle to compete against the behemoths above us.

I just wish Sharp and co. would ask Mowbray to explain the Middlesbrough but then again he'll probably say that's because they're a massive club.

Personally I'll always strive for better for my club and expect to see work being done to achieve that. This is especially the case when I witness the likes of Burnley, Palace and Brighton as established Premier League sides. The day I'm happy with second tier and treading water each season is the day it is time to give up on following competitive sport.

👏 100% Spot on.

      I spoke to a couple of pals yesterday, that I go to most Rovers' games with, home & away (or should I say did amidst this terrible Covid shit storm). We've been going together since we were first years at secondary school in 1972!  They were amongst the patient bunch and signed up to the "slow build" brigade, even they have had enough now! They totally concur that if our back 4 was Hird, Faz, Keeley & Bailey, we'd be top of the League now and by some margin. Main issues discussed and agreed:

 - Why has our defence not been sorted in 4 years? In fact it's probably regressed if anything. You can date this back to the sale of Hanley and Duffy, when Coyle was allegedly promised half of the sum received to re-invest but got nowt!

 - Why all the 'Boro transfers, all in our direction and on decent money/contracts?  Bar Downing, they're all duffers in one way or other? (Chapman, Pears, Ayala). Further, Douglas is a hopeless case defensively, worse than Ding Dong and has clearly lost his attacking and set-piece ability. Sadly you can only second guess the reasons as to why!

- Amongst many odd team selections, strange substitutions, tactics, one sticks out: who substitutes all 4 midfield players during the course of a match with 30 minutes to play? Ludicrous decision!

 - Why all the public dumbing down of ambitions for the Club? We as supporters want to be successful, as we did in the seventies and eighties, a time that we didn't have a pot to piss in, football's all about ambition. Even during that 20 year dark period, we still managed a couple of promotions and flirted with it 3 times but failed on each occasion. I feel that if you have no great desire to improve, be successful, aim for the top, then what's the point? You may as well jack it in and watch the kids kick a bundle of rags about in the back garden. It's not entitlement, as has been said by some, it's what supporting a football club is all about!

Last but by no means least, there are strong rumours round Brockhall that Waggott is retiring next summer! Hurray, I heard but then this snippet was followed up by "Ah, but Bob Lord's Grandson is being lined up as his successor"! (The last parts a lie but knowing our lot, it could be true!)

The unanimous decision was cheers Tony but there's a taxi waiting outside!

Merry Christmas to one and all, keep safe and remember, deep down, WE ARE The Rovers!!

COYB!!

Edited December 22, 2020 by darrenrover

[Mattyblue]

If Accy had just meekly accepted their place in the foodchain they’d still be in non league, instead it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that we play them next season.

It’s called ambition and having owners that strive to make the very best of their club.

[TheRoversReturn]

19 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I haven’t been his biggest fan at times but I find myself asking the current doubting Thomases, just who do you think can take us further forward?

I do not see a manager that is available to fit this Rovers set up.

Which Rovers manager are you talking about? Hodgson? Souness? Ince? Coyle?

We always have the exact same arguments each and every time we have an underperforming manager and always have had. It's true that we messed up (twice) by not getting Warnock in, but there are plenty of promising managers around. 

For a start, the Cowley brothers have impressed. Why not them? Nigel Pearson got Leicester out of this division before. Heck, even Mark Hughes could do with a way to rebuild his reputation. Mowbay staying or going should be based on his performance, not on there being a perfect replacement available. If he can't get us in the playoffs this season, and it's looking unlikely as we crap ourselves every time we get near them, then it's time to give someone else a try.

We can't keep treading water forever with the state of our finances. We'll eventually either sink or swim. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by TheRoversReturn

[47er]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

If Accy had just meekly accepted their place in the foodchain they’d still be in non league, instead it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that we play them next season.

It’s called ambition and having owners that strive to make the very best of their club.

There's a connection between club and supporters at Accrington that we have  lost.

Getting harder to win new supporters round in that area as well I'd imagine.

[tomphil]

Consider this - By the time Mowbrays contract runs out in 2 years this team could be broken up and sold off.  Transfers and some running costs recouped, FFP realigned, % all pocketed and some youth been blooded to fill the gaps. 

It happened before and could well be the plan again.  We are then left with Mowbray on a new 3 year deal rebuilding another midtable team using frees, loans and kids.  Or he's bailed out and a cheapo or someone like David Lowe has to fight the fires.

Whilst bemoaning 'there is no one else' and 'who'd come' just bare the above in mind. The words slow build echo around that scenario and imo that's where we are heading and that's why there's no big push. Not from those here running the show anyway.

I don't know about pension fund but TM, Swaggo and the gang will have enough of our generous owners money to join Elon musk in space by the end of it !

[SoldierMo]

I honestly think Hughes would return...his reputation is in tatters...noone wants to touch him...he will be eager to build his rep

[oldjamfan1]

I truly believe that all this dumbing down of ambition coming from Mowbray's mouth is an insult to the legacy of Jack Walker.

Whatever happened to "Think Big"? You would never have heard Uncle Jack saying "Think Mediocre" would you?