Tony Mowbray Discussion

[SamTheShrew]

Probably one of the only positives of the COVID situation for me, since September, and living on Shropshire, has been the ability to watch the rovers every weekend. Really excited come the start of the season. Sadly for me that had already become malaise and I have not bothered with the last 3 games, spending those 2 hours with the kids instead. inevitable Mowbray numbness.

be great just to have some new ideas with a new man and a clearly talented squad rather than excuses and what ifs for another season 

[SBlue]

2 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Why does any time before he was here matter when we are discussing Mowbray?

That was the argument for why we are at the bottom of the net spend table.

That it happened before we are relegated so he didn’t have to deal with the fallout and the fact Venkys have asset stripped us doesn’t matter re: TM’s tenure.

Thats bollocks.

Edited December 23, 2020 by S8 & Blue

[Ewood Ace]

36 minutes ago, Miker said:

Our net spend is in line with our current position.

I'd be stunned if over the last 3 season since we have been back in the Championship there are 10 clubs with a higher net spend than us for starters Preston, Rotherham, Wycombe, Luton, Barnsley, Millwall, Coventry, Birmingham, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday will all have a lower net spend. The likes of Bristol City, Brentford, Middlesbrough and Swansea will all certainly be less as well as they have sold some of their key players for big money. Maybe Forest as well given the money that they received for Cash, Brereton, Appiah. Huddersfield probably have a lower net spend as well and they spent one of those 3 years in the Premiership.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[JHRover]

Mowbray has had funds that many managers at this level could only dream of.

Preston, Huddersfield, Cardiff, Swansea, Luton, Wycombe, Sheff Wed, Barnsley, Coventry, Rotherham, Millwall- these clubs are nowhere near us on spending on new players. Virtually all have had to make significant sales or cuts over the last 3 years. We haven't. 

When you combine with the time, freedom and control Mowbray has enjoyed here he really does have a job the envy of many. Most managers would have sales forced on them, have to cut the budget, or take over shambles like Pulis has at Wednesday or O'Neill did at Stoke. Or deal with loony owners like Birmingham, Reading and Forest.

The benefit of Venkys is they are able and willing to write off £20 million a season to plod along because they like Tony and enable us to sign and retain players that many rivals couldn't get close to signing and paying.

Remember when Preston tried it with Armstrong and Mowbray came and blew them out of the water. We are clearly much stronger than such clubs financially as we ought to be with these owners but at the moment and over the last few seasons that isn't being reflected in the table.

[SBlue]

On 22/12/2020 at 20:22, S8 & Blue said:

Posted without comment

Can anyone show me some data to counteract this then or are we just going to be happy with people making shit up?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

5 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Can anyone show me some data to counteract this then or are we just going to be happy with people making shit up?

What you mean shit like Mowbray's overachieved!? 

Or maybe get some proper data that relates to the years Mowbray has been here and not data from 3 years earlier. And get data that isn't skewed by teams who have received Prem money and shelled out accordingly. 

Apart from that, good points, well made. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[SBlue]

“No” is shorter.

[K-Hod]

It’s come to something when a manager that has spent £14 Million on a forward line, loaned what has turned out to be one of the best young players about and not had to sell anyone, has had a hard time of it... 

It’s a funny old game.....

[SBlue]

Just now, K-Hod said:

It’s come to something when a manager that has spent £14 Million on a forward line, loaned what has turned out to be one of the best young players about and not had to sell anyone, has had a hard time of it... 

It’s a funny old game.....

You heard of net spend Ken?

Is it not relevant how much we sold before he came in?

And where that places us amongst divisional rivals over the past few years?

 

Criticise Mowbray all you want, and much is justified, but this “he’s spent loads more than everyone” is not true

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

“No” is shorter.

You're struggling fella, but then you had nowt to start with which is why you originally posted the stats  with 'no comment'. 

[SBlue]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

You're struggling fella, but then you had nowt to start with which is why you originally posted the stats  with 'no comment'. 

I’ll do the maths for the last 2 years for you in the morning.

You think it puts us many places up? It doesn’t.

[K-Hod]

9 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

You heard of net spend Ken?

Is it not relevant how much we sold before he came in?

And where that places us amongst divisional rivals over the past few years?

 

Criticise Mowbray all you want, and much is justified, but this “he’s spent loads more than everyone” is not true

I don’t understand what relevance what happened before him has, when he has been well backed himself since he’s been here. 

I’ve literally never said the last paragraph, so you’ll have to attribute that to the author!

But he hasn’t had to beg, steal and borrow either. He’s been well backed. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

5 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’ll do the maths for the last 2 years for you in the morning.

You think it puts us many places up? It doesn’t.

Well that'll be a start.

[superniko]

35 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray has had funds that many managers at this level could only dream of.

Preston, Huddersfield, Cardiff, Swansea, Luton, Wycombe, Sheff Wed, Barnsley, Coventry, Rotherham, Millwall- these clubs are nowhere near us on spending on new players. Virtually all have had to make significant sales or cuts over the last 3 years. We haven't. 

When you combine with the time, freedom and control Mowbray has enjoyed here he really does have a job the envy of many. Most managers would have sales forced on them, have to cut the budget, or take over shambles like Pulis has at Wednesday or O'Neill did at Stoke. Or deal with loony owners like Birmingham, Reading and Forest.

The benefit of Venkys is they are able and willing to write off £20 million a season to plod along because they like Tony and enable us to sign and retain players that many rivals couldn't get close to signing and paying.

Remember when Preston tried it with Armstrong and Mowbray came and blew them out of the water. We are clearly much stronger than such clubs financially as we ought to be with these owners but at the moment and over the last few seasons that isn't being reflected in the table.

What a bizarre list of clubs. Why are we comparing to Luton, Wycombe, Coventry and Barnsley to a certain extent? They’ve spent majority of the time in L1 over the last 4 years. Wycombe comparison is laughable  

Regarding the others they’ve spent plenty of the last few years. 
Swansea just the £55m in the first year Mowbray was with us. Another £6m the year after. Of course they had to cut costs they were relegated 3 or so years ago.

Cardiff £45m in 18/19 also been up and down so will inevitably cut some costs 

Preston are massively underfunded, and have been for a while. Their fans are always seething about it.

If these clubs are making cuts it’s because of the ridiculous fees paid in previous years. 
 

We were all a bit worried about the £7m on Brereton and £5m wasted on Gallagher but Brereton is starting to look a bit better and we can cut our loses on SG and call that a loser but sell Armstrong for £15m (signed him for £1.5m?) if we were desperate.

Where I stand is that yes he has had a nice budget since we came back up, but I also think he’s gained some assets which we haven’t sold (yet). Mainly Armstrong and Dack who both he signed for a couple of million would be £30m now (if Dack is the same player he was). 
We can’t hold it against him that he hasn’t had to sell players to make our net spend look nicer, that’s the owners doing as well. We CAN hold it against him though if he holds onto them AND also fails to progress us into the playoffs as a minimum. I think that’s fair now as at the end of the season we’ll have 2 years and 1.5 years out of our £12m investments. 
 

 

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

You heard of net spend Ken?

Is it not relevant how much we sold before he came in?

And where that places us amongst divisional rivals over the past few years?

 

Criticise Mowbray all you want, and much is justified, but this “he’s spent loads more than everyone” is not true

Has anyone said "hes spent loads more than everyone" specifically? If so then of course that is shite, whereas a very competitive budget and more time than all of his rivals would be more accurate. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

27 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

You heard of net spend Ken?

Is it not relevant how much we sold before he came in?

And where that places us amongst divisional rivals over the past few years?

 

Criticise Mowbray all you want, and much is justified, but this “he’s spent loads more than everyone” is not true

Who said he'd spent more than anyone else? You're not 'making shit up' are you? 

[JHRover]

19 minutes ago, superniko said:

What a bizarre list of clubs. Why are we comparing to Luton, Wycombe, Coventry and Barnsley to a certain extent? They’ve spent majority of the time in L1 over the last 4 years. Wycombe comparison is laughable  

Regarding the others they’ve spent plenty of the last few years. 
Swansea just the £55m in the first year Mowbray was with us. Another £6m the year after. Of course they had to cut costs they were relegated 3 or so years ago.

Cardiff £45m in 18/19 also been up and down so will inevitably cut some costs 

Preston are massively underfunded, and have been for a while. Their fans are always seething about it.

If these clubs are making cuts it’s because of the ridiculous fees paid in previous years. 
 

I mentioned those clubs because they are the current competition and who we need to finish above.

I note you recognise that the likes of Luton, Wycombe and Barnsley have been League One regulars. That's correct. Yet we have spent a hell of a lot more than them and are next to Barnsley and Luton in the table. Why is that? 

I'd wager our annual losses are well over theirs combined.

There are many others. Yes some clubs have spent more but clubs like Stoke and Derby did so under previous managers going through relegation or instability. Mowbray hasn't had to deal with either of those issues recently.

He's on a great number here.

[SBlue]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Has anyone said "hes spent loads more than everyone" specifically? If so then of course that is shite, whereas a very competitive budget and more time than all of his rivals would be more accurate. 

 

9 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Who said he'd spent more than anyone else? You're not 'making shit up' are you? 

 

On 22/12/2020 at 18:55, onlyoneDuff said:

...done nothing since even with a transfer budget most Championship manager couldn't dream of...if he had honor he would walk as he's stealing his wages

 

[TheRoversReturn]

I think most would agree that, overall, Mowbray has done well in the transfer market. Especially compared to his predecessors. It's definitely been one of his stronger traits, despite a few mishaps. 

Can he get the most out of them, however? It's been underwhelming so far, with his record against teams in the top half seeming to suggest limitations tactically. He was and remains a legend on Teeside, but Steve Gibson soon realised that if he wanted his team to go up, then a better manager than Mowbray is needed.

Like then, mid-table plodders has been his ceiling two seasons ago, last season and, so it seems to appear, might be his limit this season as well. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

51 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

 

 

 

That's a 'no' then. 

[roversfan99]

50 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

 

 

 

Most not at all but I would agree that most managers is pushing it so fair play. Most managers might appreciate Mowbrays net spend coupled with the time hes had to mould his team for sure.

[tomphil]

The budget stuff crops up again but it needs pointing out that isn't always as it seems. Yes a lot have parachutes but that money is already tied up in big post Prem contracts. So some managers, players and clubs are stuck with each other when they might not want to be.  That affects things we know we've been there.

Most of that has been eradicated here now, maybe still in the losses column but they aren't stinking up the place on a daily basis.

Next is the Cat 1 academy we have and youth it is producing. So both those factors added together give TM an advantage over a few clubs with similar and higher budgets. That's why it IS fair to have decent expectation levels above what some see as our 'budget level'.

TM takes a lot of credit for putting it together even though some areas have been criminally neglected. He's doing ok with the youth as well in bits and bats although we have lost Mahonney, Raya and could lose Nyambie under his watch.

When most of his squad is fit he has to get a better tune out of them than he is doing at present. The excuses have worn thin now and the waffle is getting to Coyle levels.

Edited December 24, 2020 by tomphil

[Stuart]

I was watching the Spurs ‘documentary’ earlier on Amazon.

In a half time team talk against City (0-0) Jose made a point that the City players were trying to pressure the referee and being “c*nts”. He was actually giving them credit for it and said that Spurs needed to be c*nts too and that “nice guys don’t win anything “.

Mowbray is too much of a nice guy and I see his image regularly in our teams. It’s why we are so soft-centred; lack bottle to hang on to games or win when we go behind; get nose-bleeds when the pressure of the top six is on; it’s also likely why we are so injury prone.

No way is Mowbray telling his lads to be more c*nt-like on the pitch. But I’ll bet Souness, and even Hughes did. And we all know for sure that Warnock will. We have a pussycat when we need a Doberman.

(Bonus marks for the Christmas movie quote).

All the best everyone. 

[JacknOry]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

I was watching the Spurs ‘documentary’ earlier on Amazon.

In a half time team talk against City (0-0) Jose made a point that the City players were trying to pressure the referee and being “c*nts”. He was actually giving them credit for it and said that Spurs needed to be c*nts too and that “nice guys don’t win anything “.

Mowbray is too much of a nice guy and I see his image regularly in our teams. It’s why we are so soft-centred; lack bottle to hang on to games or win when we go behind; get nose-bleeds when the pressure of the top six is on; it’s also likely why we are so injury prone.

No way is Mowbray telling his lads to be more c*nt-like on the pitch. But I’ll bet Souness, and even Hughes did. And we all know for sure that Warnock will. We have a pussycat when we need a Doberman.

(Bonus marks for the Christmas movie quote).

All the best everyone. 

Yup - you need a few assholes. Fergie's career was based on it. 

[SoldierMo]

9 hours ago, Stuart said:

I was watching the Spurs ‘documentary’ earlier on Amazon.

In a half time team talk against City (0-0) Jose made a point that the City players were trying to pressure the referee and being “c*nts”. He was actually giving them credit for it and said that Spurs needed to be c*nts too and that “nice guys don’t win anything “.

Mowbray is too much of a nice guy and I see his image regularly in our teams. It’s why we are so soft-centred; lack bottle to hang on to games or win when we go behind; get nose-bleeds when the pressure of the top six is on; it’s also likely why we are so injury prone.

No way is Mowbray telling his lads to be more c*nt-like on the pitch. But I’ll bet Souness, and even Hughes did. And we all know for sure that Warnock will. We have a pussycat when we need a Doberman.

(Bonus marks for the Christmas movie quote).

All the best everyone. 

Exactly..you can see mowbray in the rovers team...lookt at simeone warnock they show fight and so do their players