Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Ulrich]

I believe an old saying is appropriate :

You cannot help those that don't want to be helped. 

[Mattyblue]

‘Attacking means you win more games’

Well there you have it, simple ay? Think we all (me certainly included) need to stop letting threads getting derailed by someone with such a simplistic outlook.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Mattyblue

[dingles staying down 4ever]

For those who say we are more attack minded this season can I ask in the last month can you name one game where you can say we worked the opposition goalkeeper too much? I genuinely cannot remember a game where we created a lot of chances. I'm not included Armstrong shoot from anywhere because they are not creating but actually wasting good positions. Nor can I remember games we've lost where you think we were unlucky but I can certainly think of games where I thought we very lucky to get a result.

[HowieFive0]

7 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

For those who say we are more attack minded this season can I ask in the last month can you name one game where you can say we worked the opposition goalkeeper too much? I genuinely cannot remember a game where we created a lot of chances. I'm not included Armstrong shoot from anywhere because they are not creating but actually wasting good positions. Nor can I remember games we've lost where you think we were unlucky but I can certainly think of games where I thought we very lucky to get a result.

Possibly Norwich ..?

One thing is for certain our shooting is bloody wayward ..the number of shots off target is pretty  high.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

21 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

For those who say we are more attack minded this season can I ask in the last month can you name one game where you can say we worked the opposition goalkeeper too much? I genuinely cannot remember a game where we created a lot of chances. I'm not included Armstrong shoot from anywhere because they are not creating but actually wasting good positions. Nor can I remember games we've lost where you think we were unlucky but I can certainly think of games where I thought we very lucky to get a result.

How often do we get to the byeline and cross it into the 6 yard box?

We have amongst the highest shots in the Championship but they are rarely clear-cut chances. 

[JHRover]

An incredibly naive approach and attitude to the game. Just like Mowbray's delusions of replicating Leeds. He thinks he's better than he is and has repeatedly failed to learn from mistakes during his career.

He's very lucky to be operating in the Ewood vacuum surrounded by acolytes who lap up every word and question nothing.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

An incredibly naive approach and attitude to the game. Just like Mowbray's delusions of replicating Leeds. He thinks he's better than he is and has repeatedly failed to learn from mistakes during his career.

He's very lucky to be operating in the Ewood vacuum surrounded by acolytes who lap up every word and question nothing.

Nailed it.

You'd think he'd want better for himself wouldn't you. It blows my mind how you wouldn't want to improve at your job. Perhaps ignorance is bliss 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Why Mowbray feels Huddersfield Town's style will suit Rovers | Lancashire Telegraph

If it wasn't for the opposition we'd beat everyone. 

He's also on about the 'journey' again. 

[Crimpshrine]

29 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Why Mowbray feels Huddersfield Town's style will suit Rovers | Lancashire Telegraph

If it wasn't for the opposition we'd beat everyone. 

He's also on about the 'journey' again. 

Mowbray : "we can be more ruthless away from home because teams attack us and that leaves space in-behind them for us to exploit"

Was he at Stoke ??

[Stuart]

On 27/12/2020 at 11:51, jim mk2 said:

Apart from a disastrous run of results similar to his time at Coventry, what will it take for Mowbray to depart ?

He had one. Nothing happened.

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

How often do we get to the byeline and cross it into the 6 yard box?

We have amongst the highest shots in the Championship but they are rarely clear-cut chances. 

I guarantee this will happen tonight...

Nyambe busts a gut getting to the byeline, and a gap opens momentarily for a cross. Our left sided attacker is hovering around the far corner of the box, fairly static, being marked by their right back. One of the central midfielders is 4 yards behind him.

Our central striker is dodging around the edge of the box trying to shake off his marker. He makes sideways runs without actually setting foot beyond the penalty spot. He will make a dart towards Nyambe looking for a cut back.

Our right sided attacker is stood on the touch line, 8 yards behind Nyambe giving him an easy out ball, having got in his way initially. The ball will inevitably go to him, then to one of the midfielders who is in the middle third, then back to Lenihan... and we start again.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Thing about journeys are that they have destinations. Where's the destination for Tony's journey? 

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Thing about journeys are that they have destinations. Where's the destination for Tony's journey? 

We have arrived.   He's taken us as far as he can. Mid table. 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Now this clearly isn't true. In fact the evidence refutes this quite considerably. I could write an essay on this but just three quick pieces of evidence. 

1) Top teams are always built from the back. Manure under Fergie, Chelski under the annoying one, Rovers under King Kenny. Sure the SAS got the headlines and were a huge factor but it was built on a solid foundation of defense - Berg, Hendry, Le Saux, Flowers etc. Boring boring Arsenal under George Graham. Liverpool's success under Klopp finally came when they shelled out for a top class centre back and goalkeeper. Coincidence? No. Since forever good teams have always been built on a solid defence. 

2) The defence issue also works the other way too. What does Big Sam do to keep teams up - tighten the defence. Warnock likewise kept a fair few teams up with a similar strategy. Heck Hughes when he first came in started by stabilising the defence. Teams stay up and are successful built on a good defense. 

3) The evidence at Rovers clearly doesn't back up your point. We are no better off with this new style so there is no proof that it has improved us or our chances to get promotion. In fact we are worse off then last year so if anything it has hindered. Then take the previous example under Coyle - we scored a fair few but leaked more (as I recall). The evidence at our own club shows that this attacking style doesn't lead to more success. 

I may still be on ignore (a tad unjustly as there's been no personal attacks but there we go) but regardless I think it's worth highlighting the myth that this attacking football has improved our chances of success. 

 

 

Great post. The main defence of Mowbray seems to be underpinned by an assumption based on little if any evidence that this current style will naturally level out at a top 6 (well we need to pick up points at a rate beyond a top 6 level) to enable us to compete.

[Stuart]

28 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I guarantee this will happen tonight...

Nyambe busts a gut getting to the byeline, and a gap opens momentarily for a cross. Our left sided attacker is hovering around the far corner of the box, fairly static, being marked by their right back. One of the central midfielders is 4 yards behind him.

Our central striker is dodging around the edge of the box trying to shake off his marker. He makes sideways runs without actually setting foot beyond the penalty spot. He will make a dart towards Nyambe looking for a cut back.

Our right sided attacker is stood on the touch line, 8 yards behind Nyambe giving him an easy out ball, having got in his way initially. The ball will inevitably go to him, then to one of the midfielders who is in the middle third, then back to Lenihan... and we start again.

Good for the possession stats though. Isn’t that what counts?

[speeeeeeedie]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Attacking means you win more games’

Well there you have it, simple ay? Think we all (me certainly included) need to stop letting threads getting derailed by someone with such a simplistic outlook.

If Dyche's Burnley side played "attacking" football they'd be relegated pronto. You have to score to win, but a solid defence gives those players usually responsible for goals more confidence to play as they know if something doesn't come off they are less likely to be punished for it.

Anyway, back to Mowbray. Although higher than his past 2 seasons he's averaging less than 1.5 points per game; the absolute minimum needed to reach the playoffs. He will need to pick up 1.6+ over the remainder of the season to get there. Elliott, Dack, Armstrong, and now apparently Brereton have the talent to score plenty. Kaminski is an upgrade on recent keepers Rovers have had, but Mowbray's baffling trait of not being able to sort out a back 4 will be Rovers undoing. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

I guarantee this will happen tonight...

Nyambe busts a gut getting to the byeline, and a gap opens momentarily for a cross. Our left sided attacker is hovering around the far corner of the box, fairly static, being marked by their right back. One of the central midfielders is 4 yards behind him.

Our central striker is dodging around the edge of the box trying to shake off his marker. He makes sideways runs without actually setting foot beyond the penalty spot. He will make a dart towards Nyambe looking for a cut back.

Our right sided attacker is stood on the touch line, 8 yards behind Nyambe giving him an easy out ball, having got in his way initially. The ball will inevitably go to him, then to one of the midfielders who is in the middle third, then back to Lenihan... and we start again.

Quite. And it all comes to Mogga   bugger all.

[RevidgeBlue]

On 28/12/2020 at 13:25, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's impossible to guess who they will appoint, up to the very last second. 

Does it matter?

Mowbray definitely isn't working out at Championship level, or the man to take us forward. It's been obvious for 2 years now.

A new man might or might not be an improvement. but why stick with someone who definitely isn't the answer?

 

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Does it matter?

Mowbray definitely isn't working out at Championship level, or the man to take us forward. It's been obvious for 2 years now.

A new man might or might not be an improvement. but why stick with someone who definitely isn't the answer?

 

I'd be happy if they went  back to Coventry, Robins is a decent manager in my opinion. 

[davulsukur]

Not a great record for the calendar year.

1 more loss than wins. Less than half the available points have been picked up (56/126), a lot of goals conceded as well.

Leeds went up last season conceding just 35 goals from 46 games. We've shipped 61 from our last 42. 

The top 9 teams in the Championship conceded less goals across 46 games than that.

More evidence that Mowbray isn't the right man for the job. His disregard for our defensive frailties is constantly biting us in the arse.

[Bigdoggsteel]

42 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Does it matter?

Mowbray definitely isn't working out at Championship level, or the man to take us forward. It's been obvious for 2 years now.

A new man might or might not be an improvement. but why stick with someone who definitely isn't the answer?

 

Does it matter who the next manager is? Ya obviously, you remember Owen Coyle? 

If you told me we were getting Bilic, I would be all for it. As I said though, they have yet to make a managerial appointment of any intent. 

Also, to say Mowbray "definitely isn't working out" , isn't entirely accurate. I would say it definitely wasn't working out if we were in a relegation battle. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[yellowsubmarine]

17 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Typical Mowbray mid-table stats. 56 points can't even get us to top 10.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Why Mowbray feels Huddersfield Town's style will suit Rovers | Lancashire Telegraph

If it wasn't for the opposition we'd beat everyone. 

He's also on about the 'journey' again. 

I've got a replica shirt from " Philosphy Football " , it's got a quote from John Paul Sartre on the front -

" Everything in football is complicated by the presence of the opposing team ".

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Does it matter who the next manager is? Ya obviously, you remember Owen Coyle? 

If you told me we were getting Bilic, I would be all for it. As I said though, they have yet to make a managerial appointment of any intent. 

Also, to say Mowbray "definitely isn't working out" , isn't entirely accurate. I would say it definitely wasn't working out if we were in a relegation battle. 

I dont really get why a manager who had publically declared an intention to get into the top 6 18 months ago would only be "not working out" in your opinion should he be in a relegation battle, surely not working out would indicate an inability to meet expectations? If a manager of a title challenger failed to keep a side in title contention, would that not warrant dismissal as long as it didnt lead to a relegation scrap? We havent been in genuine contention throughout that time, even this season when further resources and time have been afforded to Mowbray, we simply cant smash that glass ceiling.

I have never been fond of the "what if we get another Coyle" argument because if that is the case, holding off from sacking a manager out of fear of disaster is merely kicking the can down the line. But it wasnt just appointing an inept manager, one who had no interests in team shape and with a horrendous recent CV, with the added issue of splitting the fan base due to history with Burnley that relegated us. It all started 2 years before relegation, a sale of key assets (Cairney, Gestede then Rhodes 6 months later and Hanley and Duffy 12 months later) replaced under embargo by crap we could piece together for 10k or less a week, Guthrie, Delfoenso etc, it can be easy to overestimate our vulnerability to potential disaster should Mowbray be removed. Last time, it took a fire sale, a transfer embargo and a particularly inept and divisive managerial appointment, even if we made a poor managerial choice, which I can understand a fear of, it would take a lot to put us in serious danger of relegation, whereas the gap is less to the top 6. The balance of risk v reward seems in our favour.

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont really get why a manager who had publically declared an intention to get into the top 6 18 months ago would only be "not working out" in your opinion should he be in a relegation battle, surely not working out would indicate an inability to meet expectations? If a manager of a title challenger failed to keep a side in title contention, would that not warrant dismissal as long as it didnt lead to a relegation scrap? We havent been in genuine contention throughout that time, even this season when further resources and time have been afforded to Mowbray, we simply cant smash that glass ceiling.

I have never been fond of the "what if we get another Coyle" argument because if that is the case, holding off from sacking a manager out of fear of disaster is merely kicking the can down the line. But it wasnt just appointing an inept manager, one who had no interests in team shape and with a horrendous recent CV, with the added issue of splitting the fan base due to history with Burnley that relegated us. It all started 2 years before relegation, a sale of key assets (Cairney, Gestede then Rhodes 6 months later and Hanley and Duffy 12 months later) replaced under embargo by crap we could piece together for 10k or less a week, Guthrie, Delfoenso etc, it can be easy to overestimate our vulnerability to potential disaster should Mowbray be removed. Last time, it took a fire sale, a transfer embargo and a particularly inept and divisive managerial appointment, even if we made a poor managerial choice, which I can understand a fear of, it would take a lot to put us in serious danger of relegation, whereas the gap is less to the top 6. The balance of risk v reward seems in our favour.

Because the season isn't over yet and we have our best players to come back.

How is the balance of risk v reward worth it when they have never made a decent managerial appointment apart from getting lucky with Bowyer and Mowbray? Nether of whom were signals of intent. Do you have that much faith in Waggot and or the owners to make a good appointment? Good for you.