Tony Mowbray Discussion

[TheRoversReturn]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

And yet, we are meant to believe that Mowbray is an honourable guy who would do the noble thing, having brought stability to the club. Y’know, fall on his sword and that.

He's not likely to fall on his sword, nor does that have a bearing on whether he is honourable or not. Which person on here would walk away from their job to become unemployed when they are under contract and their employers are pleased with the job they are doing?

We might want him to leave, but that doesn't make him dishonourable, in fact us wanting a guy to be sacked is the least honourable part of this scenario. Fans just want the best for their football team, it's ultimately a selfish desire. Any talk of honour or fans booing or falling on swords or TM being a nice guy is all utterly irrelevant. This isn't Ethics 101 class. Steve Kean was different, that was all just shady and weird. They're all just living their life, doing their job, not breaking any laws. 

It's not personal, it's just (the football) business. 

[JHRover]

I want a job like Mowbray has.

I try to imagine a situation where my employer invites me to a meeting, gives me a 3 year contract on very good wages, sends me off to the other side of the world to get on with it and has no interest in my performance or attainment of targets.

I'm able to run things exactly as I want to even if it doesn't make sense or work and get to carry on even if loads of customers actively disapprove of me and my performance. 

All the while the supporters/customers are expected to 'like it or lump it' and get asked to pay more for the privilege whilst I can cart on regardless because I'm better than my predecessor from 4 years ago.

It isn't the real world. It isn't acceptable of a way of operating in any line of work, let alone managing a professional football club employing hundreds of people and taking money off tens of thousands to operate.

 

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I want a job like Mowbray has.

I try to imagine a situation where my employer invites me to a meeting, gives me a 3 year contract on very good wages, sends me off to the other side of the world to get on with it and has no interest in my performance or attainment of targets.

I'm able to run things exactly as I want to even if it doesn't make sense or work and get to carry on even if loads of customers actively disapprove of me and my performance. 

All the while the supporters/customers are expected to 'like it or lump it' and get asked to pay more for the privilege whilst I can cart on regardless because I'm better than my predecessor from 4 years ago.

It isn't the real world. It isn't acceptable of a way of operating in any line of work, let alone managing a professional football club employing hundreds of people and taking money off tens of thousands to operate.

 

Aye, and not to mention his immediate superior is his mate who he virtually gave the job to.

The only time Balaji and his mates will get proper involved is if/when we get to the premier league.   Then the whole thing changes and Mowbray knows it.  He will be gone, three quarters of the playing staff will go too.  Turkeys don't vote for Christmas from my experience.   Middle of the road is old Tony and he's feckin good at sticking to it.  

[jim mk2]

2 hours ago, matt83 said:

One of the true disciples to be sure. But if Mowbray were to be sacked tomorrow, the club in their infinite wisdom, would be right. Frustrating mindset. But takes all sorts. 

Chaddy? 

[matt83]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Frustrating isn’t it? I’m here for Blackburn Rovers. Not for any manager or any player.

It looks to me like Mowbray has peaked at midtable - regardless of the players we’ve had available and the ones we’ve bought and sold. Are we the only club that has had injuries?

The question is: is that peak enough for Blackburn Rovers and for how long?

 

Very frustrating. This is unprecedented in that for the likes of me, thee and others we want what’s best for Blackburn Rovers only. However, there seems to be a Scientology-esque cult following for Mowbray. I can’t explain it. 

Perhaps for any rovers fan 20 years old or younger this will provably be the best they can remember. My heart bleeds for them, truly, and I understand why they think this is all somehow acceptable. They’ve seen nothing but shite. But there’s old duffs who buy into this. This is unacceptable. 

We’ve seen Rovers as champions of the country, etc, and my old man saw an era of Clayton and Douglas, but even in the barren years we had a proper football club. We aren’t anymore. Pre Venkys when came across opposition fans from Man U, liverpool who used to say they’re a better club I used to proudly say no you’re not you might have a better team but you 100% are not a better club. That’s gone. What’s left. 

 

[Sparks Rover]

Just been looking back at our goals against under Mowbray.  You need to be letting in between  35-45 across the season according to the previous 5 years.

Our last 2 seasons we have let in 65 and 64 goals, and what's more, 65 is the number we let in when relegated three years ago...Mowbray has always let in 64/65 goals and this can't get us promoted.  Ironically,  the season before the relegation we only let in 46 before TM.....

He's a liability.

You get some promoted teams who score less than teams in mid-table some seasons, but never can you get promoted by letting in more than 45 goals.  Norwich scored 85 goals a few years ago and finished mid table.

It's a fact, Mowbray cannot get us promoted.⚽️

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[Ulrich]

Unfortunately this whole discussion is mute, due to our owners/structure. So I propose we all make our new year's wishes, that TM gains 40 IQ points 😂😂™️

[dingles staying down 4ever]

17 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

A scapegoat for Mowbray? What are you on about? 

You only have to look at the last two seasons. If Mowbray needs to blame a defender he takes Nyambe off and says he felt his hamstring. Usually this means Bennett at right back but this season it has been JRC. Now it looks like Buckley is to play right back.

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, TheRoversReturn said:

He's not likely to fall on his sword, nor does that have a bearing on whether he is honourable or not. Which person on here would walk away from their job to become unemployed when they are under contract and their employers are pleased with the job they are doing?

We might want him to leave, but that doesn't make him dishonourable, in fact us wanting a guy to be sacked is the least honourable part of this scenario. Fans just want the best for their football team, it's ultimately a selfish desire. Any talk of honour or fans booing or falling on swords or TM being a nice guy is all utterly irrelevant. This isn't Ethics 101 class. Steve Kean was different, that was all just shady and weird. They're all just living their life, doing their job, not breaking any laws. 

It's not personal, it's just (the football) business. 

What kind of person?

One who said he would and who sets himself up as being a man of his word.

I agree, nobody would want to give up the comfortable, well paid position that is Rovers manager under Venkys. So we need to stop pretending that Mowbray isn’t just another football person out for himself. - like all the rest.

Which means he is easily replaceable and, if he is failing to achieve the aims of the club he needs to be.

This isn’t about fans wanting someone sacked, it’s wanting to have a normal football club, and it’s distasteful for you to call fans dishonourable. An industry where the manager position is one of the least secure roles in the world and everyone takes on their contracts knowing full well that they “live and die by results”. For some reason that doesn’t apply at Rovers and our own fans are happy to watch terrible football which doesn’t produce results while dropping down the division. “Only 3, 4, 5, 6,... points of the play-offs” or “6, 5, 4, 3,... points off relegation”; or even worse, 3, 4, 5, 6,... points from safety “.

Every time there is a manager or managers available with some pedigree the pro-Mowbray fans double-down. Then when the likes of Bilic go else where they revert to: “well who else is there?”

Mowbray should be removed from his post - even installing Damian Johnson until the end of the season. 

It’s not personal, it is exactly the (football) business.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Tony Mowbray's priority is the self-preservation of Tony Mowbray as BRFC manager. Everything he says after every defeat tells you that. This myth has been built up (mainly by him, but also by Waggott)that he is somehow different in that he values decency above all. Apparently our Owners have similar values, so he's a great fit. I'm sure he's a lovely bloke but having to signal your own virtues as somehow being compensatory for not winning football matches strikes me as a bit, well, cynical.

Let's face it, he's on a great number. Brockhall must be every managers dream. His mate is CEO. The CEO has it on record that he makes recommendations to our absent owners regarding football matters. He's not going to recommend his mate is sacked. 

Bottom line - Mowbray has shown he isn't capable of organising Rovers to win enough games in the Championship to get in the Play-Offs, never mind get promoted. That isn't going to change, no matter how long the journey. So, not only is Mowbray failing in his 'target' of Top 6, but Waggott is failing in his duty to recommend Mowbray is replaced. They should therefore both be sacked. 

Over to the Owners!!

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[TheRoversReturn]

58 minutes ago, Stuart said:

What kind of person?

One who said he would and who sets himself up as being a man of his word.

I agree, nobody would want to give up the comfortable, well paid position that is Rovers manager under Venkys. So we need to stop pretending that Mowbray isn’t just another football person out for himself. - like all the rest.

Which means he is easily replaceable and, if he is failing to achieve the aims of the club he needs to be.

This isn’t about fans wanting someone sacked, it’s wanting to have a normal football club, and it’s distasteful for you to call fans dishonourable.

I didn't call fans "dishonourable" so don't put words into my mouth, but there's nothing honourable about calling for someone to be sacked either.   

As for the rest of your reply about whether to call for his head or not, I don't know what that's got to do with my post or what you're going on about to be honest. I've said about ten times that I want him gone (including in the post above the one you quoted) as he's crap and taking us nowhere. I don't pretend it's "honourable" however to want him to lose his job. I don't think he's "dishonourable" for not resigning either. I'm not going to judge his character, everyone who has dealt with him seems to think he's a decent enough bloke. I haven't heard of any wrongdoing on his part, seems to be trying to do his best in life like most people.

You say "who said he would and who sets himself up as being a man of his word". Did he say he would resign and give his word? Do we have that on record that he said he'd resign?

End of the day, it's Venky's club and they'll decide if he's to go or not. 

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, TheRoversReturn said:

I didn't call fans "dishonourable" so don't put words into my mouth, but there's nothing honourable about calling for someone to be sacked either.   

As for the rest of your reply about whether to call for his head or not, I don't know what that's got to do with my post or what you're going on about to be honest. I've said about ten times that I want him gone (including in the post above the one you quoted) as he's crap and taking us nowhere. I don't pretend it's "honourable" however to want him to lose his job. I don't think he's "dishonourable" for not resigning either. I'm not going to judge his character, everyone who has dealt with him seems to think he's a decent enough bloke. I haven't heard of any wrongdoing on his part, seems to be trying to do his best in life like most people.

You say "who said he would and who sets himself up as being a man of his word". Did he say he would resign and give his word? Do we have that on record that he said he'd resign?

End of the day, it's Venky's club and they'll decide if he's to go or not. 

I sometimes forget that there are people who haven’t been on this forum long. It’s exhausting and frustrating having to explain stuff to new people all the time.

Enjoy your New Year’s Eve.

[rigger]

11 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

His history of similar injuries suggests it'll be a week or two. If he doesn't make it who then ? We haven't even got enough players to play 3 at the back with wing backs, unless we throw Carter in again. When's Magloire back from his pointless loan period.

If Nyambe doesn't make it, play the U23's right-back. I know this is not a preferred answer, but needs must. Let's stop feeling sorry for ourselves and try to instil some spirit into the team.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

25 minutes ago, TheRoversReturn said:

I didn't call fans "dishonourable" so don't put words into my mouth, but there's nothing honourable about calling for someone to be sacked either.   

As for the rest of your reply about whether to call for his head or not, I don't know what that's got to do with my post or what you're going on about to be honest. I've said about ten times that I want him gone (including in the post above the one you quoted) as he's crap and taking us nowhere. I don't pretend it's "honourable" however to want him to lose his job. I don't think he's "dishonourable" for not resigning either. I'm not going to judge his character, everyone who has dealt with him seems to think he's a decent enough bloke. I haven't heard of any wrongdoing on his part, seems to be trying to do his best in life like most people.

You say "who said he would and who sets himself up as being a man of his word". Did he say he would resign and give his word? Do we have that on record that he said he'd resign?

End of the day, it's Venky's club and they'll decide if he's to go or not. 

Getting fired when things go wrong is part and parcel of being a football manager. It's always been that way and it always will be. If you don't want to be a football manager who's been fired don't become one in the first place. 

[rigger]

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

I want a job like Mowbray has.

I try to imagine a situation where my employer invites me to a meeting, gives me a 3 year contract on very good wages, sends me off to the other side of the world to get on with it and has no interest in my performance or attainment of targets.

I'm able to run things exactly as I want to even if it doesn't make sense or work and get to carry on even if loads of customers actively disapprove of me and my performance. 

All the while the supporters/customers are expected to 'like it or lump it' and get asked to pay more for the privilege whilst I can cart on regardless because I'm better than my predecessor from 4 years ago.

t isn't the real world.I It isn't acceptable of a way of operating in any line of work, let alone managing a professional football club employing hundreds of people and taking money off tens of thousands to operate.

 

The problem is: It is the real world. What isn't, is thinking it will miraculously change.

[TheRoversReturn]

30 minutes ago, Stuart said:

I sometimes forget that there are people who haven’t been on this forum long. It’s exhausting and frustrating having to explain stuff to new people all the time.

Enjoy your New Year’s Eve.

Ha, I actually used to post on here back in the Souness and Hughes days, under a different username back then, before Venky's ripped the club apart. Took a break from forums and being into football so much as it was such an awful number of years watching the club ripped apart. Got all excited this year about getting into the playoffs in the spring...a letdown. This season another letdown. Here's hoping 2021 brings better tidings for Rovers fans!

Enjoy your New Year's Eve too.

Edited December 31, 2020 by TheRoversReturn

[windymiller7]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

I sometimes forget that there are people who haven’t been on this forum long. It’s exhausting and frustrating having to explain stuff to new people all the time.

Enjoy your New Year’s Eve.

This is actually quite an important factor in all this. Particularly IMO when it comes to FB groups & the like. A lot of these are likely to be the younger generation who haven't really known anything other than the Venkys era.

As a good example, although I'd tried over the years to explain to my daughter all about who Jack Walker was & what he did for Rovers, it was only probably 12 months ago, having been watching Rovers for 7 or 8 years, when she started to ask questions about him. Ie taking an interest, rather than it just being white noise coming from her father's mouth! She is now 15.

To also put this into context, as she wants to be a firefighter, I put on a documentary about the firefighters involved in 9:11. I then had to tell her all about 9:11 as she had no idea about it.

To a lot of us, these events were 5mins ago, yet there is a whole generation who this is new to.

It might take some time, but I think us older ones may need to educate the younger generation that we are Blackburn Rovers! And we expect/demand better for our club.

[Leonard Venkhater]

18 minutes ago, windymiller7 said:

This is actually quite an important factor in all this. Particularly IMO when it comes to FB groups & the like. A lot of these are likely to be the younger generation who haven't really known anything other than the Venkys era.

As a good example, although I'd tried over the years to explain to my daughter all about who Jack Walker was & what he did for Rovers, it was only probably 12 months ago, having been watching Rovers for 7 or 8 years, when she started to ask questions about him. Ie taking an interest, rather than it just being white noise coming from her father's mouth! She is now 15.

To also put this into context, as she wants to be a firefighter, I put on a documentary about the firefighters involved in 9:11. I then had to tell her all about 9:11 as she had no idea about it.

To a lot of us, these events were 5mins ago, yet there is a whole generation who this is new to.

It might take some time, but I think us older ones may need to educate the younger generation that we are Blackburn Rovers! And we expect/demand better for our club.

Oh, so very true!

It's New Years Eve and time is a strange thing, all right.

I started to follow Rovers later than most kids. It was in 1968, when I was 12 years old.

I do remember listening to the stories about the 1960 scandal, the 8-2 victory at Upton Park, the polio epidemic and relegation, as if it had happened a lifetime ago..

To think it was 25 years ago, when Rovers won the Premier League. Twenty five years before I started following the team, Britain was at war with Germany!

Happy New Year!

[Exiled in Toronto]

4 hours ago, Stuart said:

I sometimes forget that there are people who haven’t been on this forum long. It’s exhausting and frustrating having to explain stuff to new people all the time.

Enjoy your New Year’s Eve.

Some of us can remember when you were the newbie, Stuart.

[Leonard Venkhater]

25 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Some of us can remember when you were the newbie, Stuart.

...said Flashman....The only thing to say now is that you remember, when BRFCS had fagging...

[Miller11]

1 hour ago, windymiller7 said:

This is actually quite an important factor in all this. Particularly IMO when it comes to FB groups & the like. A lot of these are likely to be the younger generation who haven't really known anything other than the Venkys era.

As a good example, although I'd tried over the years to explain to my daughter all about who Jack Walker was & what he did for Rovers, it was only probably 12 months ago, having been watching Rovers for 7 or 8 years, when she started to ask questions about him. Ie taking an interest, rather than it just being white noise coming from her father's mouth! She is now 15.

To also put this into context, as she wants to be a firefighter, I put on a documentary about the firefighters involved in 9:11. I then had to tell her all about 9:11 as she had no idea about it.

To a lot of us, these events were 5mins ago, yet there is a whole generation who this is new to.

It might take some time, but I think us older ones may need to educate the younger generation that we are Blackburn Rovers! And we expect/demand better for our club.

Superb post. I know @mheadand the Rovers Trust have been really pushing the idea of a heritage project in conjunction with the club. We touched on something on the Rovers Radio show a few weeks back when some fans were asking for a statue of Mowbray(!!!) to be erected... I know John has proposed we should have one for Bob Crompton. Every one of our fans should know his story.

I used to conduct ground tours at Ewood, and the amount of history there is unreal. Tours were supposed to last an hour to 90 mins. I’d regularly do double that, or more, and always have loads more to show and talk about. It was brilliant when you had young uns on them and they were so engaged and eager. I’d make a really big deal of the Full Members Cup win... English clubs weren’t playing in Europe so it was the equivalent of the Champions League! We’ve got the shield for our three consecutive FA  Cup wins back from the football museum and on display, there’s countless trophies, awards, international caps, pictures... everything! All over the place, tons not even on display.

We’ve got such heritage, we need to celebrate it!

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Miller11

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Superb post. I know @mheadand the Rovers Trust have been really pushing the idea of a heritage project in conjunction with the club. We touched on something on the Rovers Radio show a few weeks back when some fans were asking for a statue of Mowbray(!!!) to be erected... I know John has proposed we should have one for Bob Crompton. Every one of our fans should know his story.

I used to conduct ground tours at Ewood, and the amount of history there is unreal. Tours were supposed to last an hour to 90 mins. I’d regularly do double that, or more, and always have loads more to show and talk about. It was brilliant when you had young uns on them and they were so engaged and eager. I’d make a really big deal of the Full Members Cup win... English clubs weren’t playing in Europe so it was the equivalent of the Champions League! We’ve got the shield for our three consecutive FA  Cup wins back from the football museum and on display, there’s countless trophies, awards, international caps, pictures... everything! All over the place, tons not even on display.

We’ve got such heritage, we need to celebrate it!

 

I went to college with a Spanish guy, who was a big supporter of Athletico Bilbao. He educated me on the connections between our two clubs..Arthur Pentland and Bilbao's original colours etc.

But......I am uneasy about the Trust's energy going into celebrating our illustrious past, when our present is such an abnormal shitshow. Bread and circuses etc

And I think they erected the big picture of Ronnie Clayton at the Blackburn End, just as we were at the lowest ebb under Kean...as if that would placate us...

Oops now I can hear John Prine in my head...

For a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter
You become your own prisoner as you watch yourself sit there
Wrapped up in a trap of your very own
Chain of sorrow

[Blue blood]

Not trying to be disrespectful but who on earth would nave started supporting Rovers in the last 10 years? 

Clueless owners and crooked agents running the club. A divided fan base. Fans villified by those inside and outside of the club. Crap football and mainly poor results. Not really on TV or much coverage. Only one season have we even looked like success might be possible. 

I mean I'm Rovers through and through and we have a glorious history but can't see much attraction from the last 10 years or so, especially when combined with how much easier glory hunting is these days... 

[Sparks Rover]

8 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Not trying to be disrespectful but who on earth would nave started supporting Rovers in the last 10 years? 

Clueless owners and crooked agents running the club. A divided fan base. Fans villified by those inside and outside of the club. Crap football and mainly poor results. Not really on TV or much coverage. Only one season have we even looked like success might be possible. 

I mean I'm Rovers through and through and we have a glorious history but can't see much attraction from the last 10 years or so, especially when combined with how much easier glory hunting is these days... 

Plus the emergence of Accy, Chorley to an extent, Fylde etc....its becoming harder and we seem a bit backward in the marketing department. 

 

 

[SamTheShrew]

5 hours ago, windymiller7 said:

This is actually quite an important factor in all this. Particularly IMO when it comes to FB groups & the like. A lot of these are likely to be the younger generation who haven't really known anything other than the Venkys era.

As a good example, although I'd tried over the years to explain to my daughter all about who Jack Walker was & what he did for Rovers, it was only probably 12 months ago, having been watching Rovers for 7 or 8 years, when she started to ask questions about him. Ie taking an interest, rather than it just being white noise coming from her father's mouth! She is now 15.

To also put this into context, as she wants to be a firefighter, I put on a documentary about the firefighters involved in 9:11. I then had to tell her all about 9:11 as she had no idea about it.

To a lot of us, these events were 5mins ago, yet there is a whole generation who this is new to.

It might take some time, but I think us older ones may need to educate the younger generation that we are Blackburn Rovers! And we expect/demand better for our club.

We spent two weeks before end of term teaching about New York and then 9/11 through the hook of Philippe Petit walking the twin towers. Crazy to think it was 20 years ago now. Some kids were aware of it. They handled it brilliantly to be fair considering they are 10/11