Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Gav]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 If I write off any chance of that ever happening under owners that seem unwilling to ever leave, then surely I may as well pack it in?

I  respect the views of every poster who wants to change the manager, my view is it will change nothing.

If you supported the club during the 70's/80's you'd probably have given up based on your comments above, we couldn't even pay the milkman at one point, it was 20yrs devoid of much success, but we enjoyed some and loved every minute when it happened. 

If you come to terms with the current predicament, the facts as we have them, then you'll be in a much better place. Nobody on here can change the manager, but more importantly nobody can change the owners and thats where the real problem lies. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

I  respect the views of every poster who wants to change the manager, my view is it will change nothing.

If you supported the club during the 70's/80's you'd probably have given up based on your comments above, we couldn't even pay the milkman at one point, it was 20yrs devoid of much success, but we enjoyed some and loved every minute when it happened. 

If you come to terms with the current predicament, the facts as we have them, then you'll be in a much better place. Nobody on here can change the manager, but more importantly nobody can change the owners and thats where the real problem lies. 

 

There is absolutely no comparison with Rovers in the 1970's and  80's and Rovers today apart from the colour of the shirts. We didn't have a pot to piss in then but you knew everyone behind the scenes was doing their utmost to bring success to the club. It wasn't a play thing then it was the life blood of the town.

[Stuart]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

I  respect the views of every poster who wants to change the manager, my view is it will change nothing.

If you supported the club during the 70's/80's you'd probably have given up based on your comments above, we couldn't even pay the milkman at one point, it was 20yrs devoid of much success, but we enjoyed some and loved every minute when it happened. 

If you come to terms with the current predicament, the facts as we have them, then you'll be in a much better place. Nobody on here can change the manager, but more importantly nobody can change the owners and thats where the real problem lies. 

Bet nobody at the club was being paid 10-15 times the average local salary back in those milk-less days though, Gav.

The sad fact is that a lot of people have packed it in.

[LDRover]

8 minutes ago, Gav said:

I  respect the views of every poster who wants to change the manager, my view is it will change nothing.

If you supported the club during the 70's/80's you'd probably have given up based on your comments above, we couldn't even pay the milkman at one point, it was 20yrs devoid of much success, but we enjoyed some and loved every minute when it happened. 

If you come to terms with the current predicament, the facts as we have them, then you'll be in a much better place. Nobody on here can change the manager, but more importantly nobody can change the owners and thats where the real problem lies. 

 

I was there in those years, as you were Gav, and, in spite of us being completely skint, we competed at the right end of the table more often than not and had managers who talked us up rather than down.

Add that to players and management that patently cared and the comparison between back then and now is like night and day.

[martonrover]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

I  respect the views of every poster who wants to change the manager, my view is it will change nothing.

If you supported the club during the 70's/80's you'd probably have given up based on your comments above, we couldn't even pay the milkman at one point, it was 20yrs devoid of much success, but we enjoyed some and loved every minute when it happened. 

If you come to terms with the current predicament, the facts as we have them, then you'll be in a much better place. Nobody on here can change the manager, but more importantly nobody can change the owners and thats where the real problem lies. 

 

With regards to the 80's, our current circumstances are totally different.

Yes, we were poor back then, but we were owned and well run by people who were competent, in touch and who cared about the club.

What's more, they often had the club punching above it's weight in the league table, something which we are currently incapable of.

As we will discover once fans are allowed to attend again, for most people, coming to terms with the current predicament will mean doing something else on a Saturday afternoon.

[Gav]

Gents I hear you, I really do.

Todays Blackburn Rovers are much improved on the days of king rat, Agnew, Shaw and Singh.

Saying today is different to 70/80’s ignores that fact 5/6 clubs in this league have millions at their disposal, we can’t compete. 

On a personal level I’ve accepted that under our current owners we have gone as far as we can, regardless of who the manager is.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Gav

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Gav said:

Gents I hear you, I really do.

Todays Blackburn Rovers are much improved on the days of king rat, Agnew, Shaw and Singh.

On a personal level I’m happy about that, I’ve also accepted that under our current owners we have gone as far as we can, regardless of who the manager is.

We've possibly gone as far forwards as we can Gav, but what worries me is we can still go backwards again under these morons. There's nothing to say next season won't be a relegation struggle and we're not out of the woods yet this season.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Gents I hear you, I really do.

Todays Blackburn Rovers are much improved on the days of king rat, Agnew, Shaw and Singh.

Saying today is different to 70/80’s ignores that fact 5/6 clubs in this league have millions at their disposal, we can’t compete. 

On a personal level I’ve accepted that under our current owners we have gone as far as we can, regardless of who the manager is.

You’ve just contradicted yourself.

For that exact reason, we aren’t in any way improved, it’s just a lot quieter. Both in the boardroom and in the stands (COVID notwithstanding).

You are right though, we won’t change anything. We just have to hope that something does and sooner rather than later, certainly before we are dragged into a relegation fight, otherwise everything good Mowbray has done will be wasted.

We are stuck with Venkys until they decide otherwise but in a little corner of Blackburn there is still a bit of green field, with seats pointed at it, for people to watch football - with all of its emotion and drama. Venkys don’t influence what the players do on a match day, that’s down to the manager selecting, instructing and motivating them and the fans demanding the best from them. It doesn’t feel, right now, as though they are being selected, instructed or motivated well enough by the current manager. He has taken us as far as he is capable of, it just depends if Venkys have taken us as far as they want to.

[davulsukur]

When Kean was bulletproof, that was the closest I think I've ever been from giving up on football altogether. Every week the same old horrible performances and defeats but with owners with no desire to pull the trigger.

With Mowbray, we obviously haven't hit those depths but its hugely infuriating knowing the owners have no desire to sack him just because he's a nice bloke.

The absolute opposite of how they need to approach the situation.

Football is about 1 thing and 1 thing only, results.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

When Kean was bulletproof, that was the closest I think I've ever been from giving up on football altogether. Every week the same old horrible performances and defeats but with owners with no desire to pull the trigger.

With Mowbray, we obviously haven't hit those depths but its hugely infuriating knowing the owners have no desire to sack him just because he's a nice bloke.

The absolute opposite of how they need to approach the situation.

Football is about 1 thing and 1 thing only, results.

My cut off point was when they appointed Coyle, I knew then we were due for another spell in the old Div 3. I stopped coming on here, didn't go to games, didn't read the match reports in the paper. I just looked for the scores on a Saturday and that was it.

I only got interested again when they sacked Coyle and appointed Lambert, Irvine and co.

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

Gents I hear you, I really do.

Todays Blackburn Rovers are much improved on the days of king rat, Agnew, Shaw and Singh.

Saying today is different to 70/80’s ignores that fact 5/6 clubs in this league have millions at their disposal, we can’t compete. 

On a personal level I’ve accepted that under our current owners we have gone as far as we can, regardless of who the manager is.

 

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

You’ve just contradicted yourself.

For that exact reason, we aren’t in any way improved, it’s just a lot quieter. Both in the boardroom and in the stands (COVID notwithstanding).

You are right though, we won’t change anything. We just have to hope that something does and sooner rather than later, certainly before we are dragged into a relegation fight, otherwise everything good Mowbray has done will be wasted.

We are stuck with Venkys until they decide otherwise but in a little corner of Blackburn there is still a bit of green field, with seats pointed at it, for people to watch football - with all of its emotion and drama. Venkys don’t influence what the players do on a match day, that’s down to the manager selecting, instructing and motivating them and the fans demanding the best from them. It doesn’t feel, right now, as though they are being selected, instructed or motivated well enough by the current manager. He has taken us as far as he is capable of, it just depends if Venkys have taken us as far as they want to.

Spot on Stuart we aren't improved and we are still at the whim of the most incompetent owners in football. If we can't improve any more with anyone at the helm because of the owners then we aren't in a good place at all! 

 

Also how are 5-6 clubs we can't compete with financially like the 80s? I don't follow that logic though admittedly not that au fait with 80s Rovers.

Firstly finance is seperate from competence. Competing financially is different to having competent people at the helm - two very different issues. 

Secondly how have these 5-6 clubs got a massive financial advantage over us? Brentford have never had more money than us - but they have done transfers well. Nothing we couldn't have done. No natural advantage over us. Also whilst parachute payments do make a huge difference remember we had that advantage and spunked it. Hard to cry foul when that's the case. Also I could be wrong but in getting to the Prem the first time round I'm fairly sure a number of these clubs did it on not overly huge budgets. Norwich have an advantage this time round but did they first time they went up? Likewise Huddersfield when they went up. 

Thirdly I'm not sure it's the case now that we can't compete. what about all those clubs that are competing with those we can't compete with? Preston till now have been at the door of the playoffs for a few seasons. Boro don't have huge amounts of money. Reading either. How do they manage it?! (And we are working on the assumption that the money the relegated clubs have is disposable income not tied up in weighty unhelpful contracts and the like.) Saying we can't compete is news to a whole host of clubs like Brentford, Boro and Reading to name three. It's a falicy and falsehood to protect those running the club from criticism. 

 

Also on this basis too I assume TM deserves no credit for getting us back to the championship because some clubs couldn't financially compete with us. 

Goodness it doesn't half grate when I hear this it is what is is just accept it guff. It erradicates blame from the owner and manager for giving us this disadvantage and excuses them not competing when we clearly, even if it's more difficult, can compete with them. It's crap standards in the club are so low. It's gutting when fans have those same aspirations. 

[roversfan99]

6 hours ago, Gav said:

I  respect the views of every poster who wants to change the manager, my view is it will change nothing.

If you supported the club during the 70's/80's you'd probably have given up based on your comments above, we couldn't even pay the milkman at one point, it was 20yrs devoid of much success, but we enjoyed some and loved every minute when it happened. 

If you come to terms with the current predicament, the facts as we have them, then you'll be in a much better place. Nobody on here can change the manager, but more importantly nobody can change the owners and thats where the real problem lies. 

 

Im not sure how you managed to come to this conclusion. My point was even at our lowest ebbs in my life time and in even in times when it went against logic and reason, I have retained at least a bit of hope that things can get better.

[Mattyblue]

Who  ‘gave up’ in the 80s?

The club didn’t, couldn’t pay the leccy bill? Training on Pleasy and fishing balls out of the river as we couldn’t afford to replace them? Yep, but still no excuses and the club maintained standards, the result? Top end of the second tier for the majority of the time.

A club to be proud of. Compare and contrast to BRFC of 2021.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Mattyblue

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Who  ‘gave up’ in the 80s?

The club didn’t, couldn’t pay the leccy bill? Training on Pleasy and fishing balls out of the river as we couldn’t afford to replace them? Yep, but still no excuses and the club maintained standards, the result? Top end of the second tier for the majority of the time.

A club to be proud of. Compare and contrast to BRFC of 2021.

100% correct.

This bit ..... ''70's/80's ....... it was 20yrs devoid of much success'' especially annoying to me as it is completely fake.

Did I dream the Kendall years? was I not at Wembley for the FMC Cup win? did we not get into the Playoffs, often?

We were a great well run Club operating on buttons who make the current regime pale in comparison.

I suppose the argument against my view of this bullshit will be use of the word ''much'', it is no argument at all.

The condition of the Club in previous times to justify the current corrupt regime and its ineptitude is weak, a low shot and simply wrong.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by AllRoverAsia

[Herbie6590]

Our friends at Rovers Chat are soliciting opinions from people who want Mowbray out...some on here may wish to make contact I suspect...

[rigger]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Who  ‘gave up’ in the 80s?

The club didn’t, couldn’t pay the leccy bill? Training on Pleasy and fishing balls out of the river as we couldn’t afford to replace them? Yep, but still no excuses and the club maintained standards, the result? Top end of the second tier for the majority of the time.

A club to be proud of. Compare and contrast to BRFC of 2021.

In the 7o's/80's I felt, I was part of Blackburn Rovers. Now I feel taken for granted and I will not put up with that.

[Sparks Rover]

40 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Our friends at Rovers Chat are soliciting opinions from people who want Mowbray out...some on here may wish to make contact I suspect...

Mowbray Out

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Rovers boss on leaving out Adam Armstrong for FA Cup tie | Lancashire Telegraph

“If we weren’t creating any chances then you could sit here and say ‘how are you going to win any football matches?’ But we’re creating over 20 a game" - Mogga

20 chances a game. Blimey, we are good!

[Gav]

 

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

100% correct.

This bit ..... ''70's/80's ....... it was 20yrs devoid of much success'' especially annoying to me as it is completely fake.

Did I dream the Kendall years? was I not at Wembley for the FMC Cup win? did we not get into the Playoffs, often?

I suppose the argument against my view of this bullshit will be use of the word ''much'', it is no argument at all.

 

 

Fake?

Howard Kendall was here for 2 seasons Asia.

We got promoted from division 3 in 1975 and then duly got relegated again.

We got promoted from division 3 in 79/80 and remained in division 2 for 12yrs until 1992 (Yes we went Wembley in 87 and lost in the playoffs) Gates down to 5000......It was a period devoid of much success as the record shows.

Mowbray got us promoted from division 3!

The original point 99? and TS made was asking what is the point if you feel Venkys have taken the club as far as it can go, I made the point that we've had baron periods in the past, I felt abject despair under Saxton, but the point is you support the club, its in the blood.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Gav

[Blue blood]

The point that came across from yourself was the two periods were the same situation. 

What's been highlighted was the massive difference in intent and competence of those running the club, even amidst poverty. That difference is huge and shows the two situations aren't like for like at all 

Also you are giving TM credit for his promotion. How so when teams just couldn't compete with us financially? Surely it was just a formalit. if it's an excuse for our malaise now it vetos any praise for TMs promotion by the same logic. 

 

 

[Mattyblue]

Crowds collapsed across football in the mid 80s, it wasn’t because of Rovers fans being uniquely disillusioned, even clubs like Arsenal, Tottenham etc had gates regularly in the 15,000 bracket.

The club WAS successful in the 80s considering its means. A cup win, three play off campaigns (would’ve been more if they’d have been invented earlier) and we were rarely out of the top half - without a pot to piss in. Our near neighbours were all trying to avoid falling out of the Football League at the time.

You are doing the club of Bill Fox, Bancroft, Howarth, Kendall, Saxton, MacKay, Parkes a real disservice 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Mattyblue

[J*B]

2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Our friends at Rovers Chat are soliciting opinions from people who want Mowbray out...some on here may wish to make contact I suspect...

Easy work...

 

The reason Tony Mowbray has to go is quite simple - repeatedly failing to learn from his mistakes. 

We all went into this season saying defence looked light. Questions where raised over Ayala’s injury record. But that isn’t the biggest issue. The biggest issue is Tony has been here before and never adapted - and most concerning, this has all happened before.

Celtic - taken from CelticUnderground.net

“The team had a habit of being changed from one week to the next.  The centre backs were rarely played together for long, either through poor form or injury.”

 

Tony also has a habit of questioning the players. Pushing the blame. In fact, he’s done it today in the LT. This isn’t a one off, remember ‘defenders are coming?’. In fact, it’s not just at this club: 

Celtic - taken from CelticUnderground.net

“This had come from a press interview in which Mowbray had said what most of the fans had been thinking – the players weren’t up to the job and big changes were required.”

 

We finished our last game playing 4-2-4, with four attacking players on the pitch. We’ve ended up in this position a few times this season, chasing down the game. 

It’s something Tony is used to - in his final games at Celtic, the Glasgow Times accused him of “having no plan B, ending the game at St Mirren with 6 strikers on the pitch.”

 

Rovers score enough, usually. Our problem is defence and leaking goals. We’re missing a consistent centre half to take command and pull us over the line - what we had originally hoped Lenihan would be, but gambled Ayala could be. 

Again, Tony is used to not sorting out the defence. After leaving Coventry, Mowbray said to The BBC: 

I probably let them down by not getting in the big 6ft 4in centre-half we were after, who could have been a man and help us keep clean sheets.

 

Let’s be very clear. The statistics show that, despite ‘better football’ and ‘increasing squad value’, this teams PPG is lower than 18/19 and 19/20. 

If you can find reason to believe any of these issues will be addressed, resulting in a top-six finish (Mowbray’s own target) - you’re much more optimistic than me. 

[K-Hod]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Mowbray Out

‘298 words remaining’....

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

The point that came across from yourself was the two periods were the same situation. 

What's been highlighted was the massive difference in intent and competence of those running the club, even amidst poverty. That difference is huge and shows the two situations aren't like for like at all 

Also you are giving TM credit for his promotion. How so when teams just couldn't compete with us financially? Surely it was just a formalit. if it's an excuse for our malaise now it vetos any praise for TMs promotion by the same logic. 

 

 

We spent 12 seasons in division 2 from 1980 - 1992 - I never thought for one minute we'd end up in the 1st Division until Jack came along in 87/88. We have spent 3 season in division 2 under Mowbray, I also don't think for one minute under these owners we'll end up in the premiership, but we don't ever give up.

That is the point. Bb.

As for division 3 and our superior budget, the same applies in division 2, we can' t complete with the front runners budgets, is that a valid excuse like it was for promotion from div 3?

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

The club WAS successful in the 80s considering its means. A cup win, three play off campaigns (would’ve been more if they’d have been invented earlier) and we were rarely out of the top half - without a pot to piss in

You are doing the club of Bill Fox, Bancroft, Howarth, Kendall, Saxton, MacKay, Parkes a real disservice 

First of all I said 70's/80's was mostly devoid of success, which it was, but we never gave up, that was the point you and one of two others seem to have missed.

The final sentence is just rubbish.

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Gav

[Bigdoggsteel]

https://www.football365.com/news/sky-sports-in-huge-setback-as-keane-eyes-managerial-return

Get him in til the summer.