Tony Mowbray Discussion

[arbitro]

14 minutes ago, Pedro said:

I would happily watch Rovers play a guts n all style of play, week in, week out, than a tippy tappy, try to walk it in style that doesn't bring results. I was as happy watching Hughes' blood and thunder stuff as I was with King Kenny's awesome wing play.  In fact, my favourite identity of Rovers was the 'Bully Boy' tag we rightfully earnt.  Everyone to a man gave their all for the shirt and that's all I ever want to see - trophies are a bonus.

Football is all about winning and whether it's the Guardiola inspired City way or playing percentages I really don't care. Any manager worth his salt knows his players and a style (and system) that suits his players. This is where I think Mowbray gets a touch delusional by trying to evolve players into a style they either aren't good enough or suited to play. His three at the back tactic was an unmitigated disaster but in fairness he learnt the hard way and changed back to a four man defence.

Hopefully Saturday and the result will be a salutary lesson to Mowbray that to get results he has to play to our strengths.

[BlackburnEnd75]

I saw Mowbray say that if we stick to the same style we can't really improve our league position and push for the play offs, and tbh I would agree with that. Too often last season our sole attacking movement consisted of lumping it up to Graham, considering he's also on the wane physically then he's right to try move away from that.

There's no reason why we can't build out from the back more though, Walton's distribution seems like a marked improvement on Raya, Graham can hold it up on the ground too. Just be a bit more cute about when we try that diagonal ball into Graham needs to be more accurate and from further up the pitch when he has players around him (like vs Oldham).

Last season I wanted us to drop Mulgrew and try pushing up more, and now he's gone that is what he appears to be doing. We've just got to continue to work hard and keep pressing. 

[rog of the rovers]

Saturday's game was a classic case of managerial 'nous' that Mowbray has, particularly over the rookie managers in this league.

I remember Warnock saying he was delighted that Warren Joyce had got the Wigan job, as he wasn't experienced enough (at Championship level) to know how to grind out results.

This is not to say that Mowbray isn't sometimes out thought by the move 'maverick' managers......e.g. Wilder's (3-5-2) and Farke's attacking style, but he's got the experience that is in short supply with a lot of Championship teams.

[47er]

2 minutes ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I saw Mowbray say that if we stick to the same style we can't really improve our league position and push for the play offs, and tbh I would agree with that. Too often last season our sole attacking movement consisted of lumping it up to Graham, considering he's also on the wane physically then he's right to try move away from that.

 

He's right to move away from it provided his successful Transfer Window has provided the players to make it work.

He's not right to move away from it when its still the most effective system we've got.

It is actually possible to worsen our League position remember!

[47er]

Just now, rog of the rovers said:

Saturday's game was a classic case of managerial 'nous' that Mowbray has, particularly over the rookie managers in this league.

I remember Warnock saying he was delighted that Warren Joyce had got the Wigan job, as he wasn't experienced enough (at Championship level) to know how to grind out results.

This is not to say that Mowbray isn't sometimes out thought by the move 'maverick' managers......e.g. Wilder's (3-5-2) and Farke's attacking style, but he's got the experience that is in short supply with a lot of Championship teams.

He doesn't seem to have learned much from his experience. I'm afraid you're being too kind.

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

I would happily watch Rovers play a guts n all style of play, week in, week out, than a tippy tappy, try to walk it in style that doesn't bring results. I was as happy watching Hughes' blood and thunder stuff as I was with King Kenny's awesome wing play.  In fact, my favourite identity of Rovers was the 'Bully Boy' tag we rightfully earnt.  Everyone to a man gave their all for the shirt and that's all I ever want to see - trophies are a bonus.

100%. I want the days of teams fearing to play us back again. Sadly I think modern football has evolved past that style of play ever reemerging. 

[Adam C]

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

I would happily watch Rovers play a guts n all style of play, week in, week out, than a tippy tappy, try to walk it in style that doesn't bring results. I was as happy watching Hughes' blood and thunder stuff as I was with King Kenny's awesome wing play.  In fact, my favourite identity of Rovers was the 'Bully Boy' tag we rightfully earnt.  Everyone to a man gave their all for the shirt and that's all I ever want to see - trophies are a bonus.

I hated the bully boy tag. It cheapened what Hughes was doing as our team was so much more than just bullies at the time and it was too easy for other managers (Wenger!) to complain and influence referees in our matches. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

I would happily watch Rovers play a guts n all style of play, week in, week out, than a tippy tappy, try to walk it in style that doesn't bring results. I was as happy watching Hughes' blood and thunder stuff as I was with King Kenny's awesome wing play.  In fact, my favourite identity of Rovers was the 'Bully Boy' tag we rightfully earnt.  Everyone to a man gave their all for the shirt and that's all I ever want to see - trophies are a bonus.

I would say under Hughes it was alot more than just blood and thunder stuff. Some of the football we played under Hughes was excellent

[Dreams of 1995]

8 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

I hated the bully boy tag. It cheapened what Hughes was doing as our team was so much more than just bullies at the time and it was too easy for other managers (Wenger!) to complain and influence referees in our matches. 

The only reason we got called bully boys was because we got in their faces, closed down and had players who weren't afraid to get stuck in. 

A lot of our players could learn a thing or two from Andy Todd, The Axe, Neill, Reid and the like. There wasn't a player who wouldn't get involved should the time call for it. I didn't mind that tag being associated with us and frankly Wenger and co were only annoyed that a club like us had found a way to compete with them.

The press could say what they wanted, we knew what we were watching and if they didn't want to give us credit then so be it. I actually think we thrived off that kind of siege mentality. 

[Adam C]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

The only reason we got called bully boys was because we got in their faces, closed down and had players who weren't afraid to get stuck in. 

A lot of our players could learn a thing or two from Andy Todd, The Axe, Neill, Reid and the like. There wasn't a player who wouldn't get involved should the time call for it. I didn't mind that tag being associated with us and frankly Wenger and co were only annoyed that a club like us had found a way to compete with them.

The press could say what they wanted, we knew what we were watching and if they didn't want to give us credit then so be it. I actually think we thrived off that kind of siege mentality. 

I know why we were called bully boys and I don’t think the tag was justified. 

I have to disagree on Andy Todd, I always thought he was a bit of a thug. Commitment is great but mindless aggression has no place in football imo. 

[AllRoverAsia]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would say under Hughes it was alot more than just blood and thunder stuff. Some of the football we played under Hughes was excellent

Spot on. We knew that we were a damn good footballing side under Hughes with some top quality players who could also play hard.

The bully tag came from the likes of Wegner who basically wanted a non-contact game and who was at that time a media darling.

I think we thrived on it.

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

Football is all about winning and whether it's the Guardiola inspired City way or playing percentages I really don't care. Any manager worth his salt knows his players and a style (and system) that suits his players. This is where I think Mowbray gets a touch delusional by trying to evolve players into a style they either aren't good enough or suited to play. His three at the back tactic was an unmitigated disaster but in fairness he learnt the hard way and changed back to a four man defence.

Hopefully Saturday and the result will be a salutary lesson to Mowbray that to get results he has to play to our strengths.

Funnily enough Tony, I’ve found myself thinking that Tosin/Lenihan/Williams could be a very effective back 3. But don’t ask me about the other 7! ?

[stinny1]

Just watched Tony on sky and he's  still on about the change of style i want points  over style TM stop the crap . And play the players in there right position  im still not happy with Bennett and still think if Tosin is fit i would play im a right back. Lenihan .Williams and Cunningham at left back thats a more solid back four . Come on TM stop  messing  about another  winnable game

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Interesting that reverting to long ball was as much about Gallagher as it was Graham ?

[Pedro]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would say under Hughes it was alot more than just blood and thunder stuff. Some of the football we played under Hughes was excellent

Yes it was. We had some great players but I would say that the likes of Todd, Warnock, Neill, Reid, Savage, Mokoena, Dickov  (no doubt I've missed some very obvious ones too) were the uncompromising warriors in the team.  Always willing to give their all and let the opposition know they were in one hell of  a scrap for points. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Pedro

[Pedro]

9 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

I know why we were called bully boys and I don’t think the tag was justified. 

I have to disagree on Andy Todd, I always thought he was a bit of a thug. Commitment is great but mindless aggression has no place in football imo. 

He was a superb centre back and was twice player of the season for us in a talented side. I've got to say, when he snotted the smarmy Van Persie (who was also a sneakily dirty and cheating sod) and hoofed Dugarry clean up his diving arse - I was absolutely made up.  

[joey_big_nose]

10 hours ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I saw Mowbray say that if we stick to the same style we can't really improve our league position and push for the play offs, and tbh I would agree with that. Too often last season our sole attacking movement consisted of lumping it up to Graham, considering he's also on the wane physically then he's right to try move away from that.

There's no reason why we can't build out from the back more though, Walton's distribution seems like a marked improvement on Raya, Graham can hold it up on the ground too. Just be a bit more cute about when we try that diagonal ball into Graham needs to be more accurate and from further up the pitch when he has players around him (like vs Oldham).

Last season I wanted us to drop Mulgrew and try pushing up more, and now he's gone that is what he appears to be doing. We've just got to continue to work hard and keep pressing. 

Id say we have a decent chance of mixing it up a bit. We look undoubtedly better at the back, and with Johnson and Downing in midfield we've definitely upped the technical quality.

Got to get the quick short passing moving in the team though. It's laboured at the moment. Working all of Downing, Rothwell and Dack into the team will help. But I think Mowbray wants Gallagher at right wing, as an out ball. And to be fair it worked on Saturday.

It's a bit odd for him to say on one hand he wants a more technical style, but on the other play a 6ft 2 striker on the wing and ping long balls into him..?

[old darwen blue]

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

He was a superb centre back and was twice player of the season for us in a talented side. I've got to say, when he snotted the smarmy Van Persie (who was also a sneakily dirty and cheating sod) and hoofed Dugarry clean up his diving arse - I was absolutely made up.  

One of my all time heroes was Andy, mind you what does that say about me? ☺️

[JBiz]

 

Whilst I can find many issues with certain phrases or lines, I can’t help but still feel that the club is in a genuine “football persons” hand with TM. I feel confident in his ambitions and intentions.

Our collective expectation since he has arrived is now firmly towards the top end of the table, and whether your opinion is that we should’ve done far better so far, it’s hard to ignore that fact.

 

[RV Blue]

19 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Saturday's game was a classic case of managerial 'nous' that Mowbray has, particularly over the rookie managers in this league.

I remember Warnock saying he was delighted that Warren Joyce had got the Wigan job, as he wasn't experienced enough (at Championship level) to know how to grind out results.

This is not to say that Mowbray isn't sometimes out thought by the move 'maverick' managers......e.g. Wilder's (3-5-2) and Farke's attacking style, but he's got the experience that is in short supply with a lot of Championship teams.

Saturday’s game was a classic example of a battle between two poor sides, which could have gone either way. There was no ‘nous’ on show, from either manager.

[rog of the rovers]

Tony Mowbray vs. Championship 'rookie' managers [since the start of the his tenure on 23rd February 2017 until present day]

*By rookie, I mean managers in their first managerial job.

Warren Joyce (Wigan Athletic), Darren Moore (West Bromwich Albion), Frank Lampard (Derby County) and Jonathon Woodgate (Middlesbrough)

4/3/17 - Wigan Athletic (h) 1-0: Emnes

18/9/18 - Derby County (a) 0-0

27/10/18 - West Bromwich Albion (a) 1-1: Reed

1/1/19 - West Bromwich Albion (h) 2-1: Mulgrew, Dack

9/4/19 - Derby County (h) 2-0: Rothwell, Dack

17/8/19 - Middlebrough (h) 1-0: Graham pen

P6 W4 D2 L0 F7 A2 Pts14

 

If you want to include his whole reign as Rovers boss, also include:

Ryan Lowe (Bury) and Dan Micciche (Milton Keynes Dons)

19/2/18 - Bury (h) 2-0: Graham, Armstrong

2/4/18 - Milton Keynes Dons (a) 2-1: Armstrong 2

P8 W6 D2 L0 F11 A3 Pts20

Edited August 20, 2019 by rog of the rovers

[TBTF]

2 hours ago, Harry The Bass said:

foot

 

Whilst I can find many issues with certain phrases or lines, I can’t help but still feel that the club is in a genuine “football persons” hand with TM. I feel confident in his ambitions and intentions.

Our collective expectation since he has arrived is now firmly towards the top end of the table, and whether your opinion is that we should’ve done far better so far, it’s hard to ignore that fact.

 

He is a genuine football persons man but one that many think is being left behind in a fast moving football world-tactically  & technically .Eg I'd describe David Pleat as a genuine football man but the game has moved on dramatically way past him and many others.

Expectations on here  are based on the statements TM and the club have made and the amounts that have been spent .Don't doubt his intentions but certainly question his ability to deliver on them on a number of levels.

[RV Blue]

3 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Tony Mowbray vs. Championship 'rookie' managers [since the start of the his tenure on 23rd February 2017 until present day]

*By rookie, I mean managers in their first managerial job.

Warren Joyce (Wigan Athletic), Darren Moore (West Bromwich Albion), Frank Lampard (Derby County) and Jonathon Woodgate (Middlesbrough)

4/3/17 - Wigan Athletic (h) 1-0: Emnes

18/9/18 - Derby County (a) 0-0

27/10/18 - West Bromwich Albion (a) 1-1: Reed

1/1/19 - West Bromwich Albion (h) 2-1: Mulgrew, Dack

9/4/19 - Derby County (h) 2-0: Rothwell, Dack

17/8/19 - Middlebrough (h) 1-0: Graham pen

P6 W4 D2 L0 F7 A2 Pts14

 

If you want to include his whole reign as Rovers boss, also include:

Ryan Lowe (Bury) and Dan Micciche (Milton Keynes Dons)

19/2/18 - Bury (h) 2-0: Graham, Armstrong

2/4/18 - Milton Keynes Dons (a) 2-1: Armstrong 2

P8 W6 D2 L0 F11 A3 Pts20

Ignoring the extremely small sample size, all of those managers, bar Lampard, were failures. He’s bound to have a better record against managers that failed at their respective clubs.

[oldjamfan1]

2 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

Ignoring the extremely small sample size, all of those managers, bar Lampard, were failures. He’s bound to have a better record against managers that failed at their respective clubs.

Yes but surely you could argue that TM, and other experienced managers like him, are the reason they failed?

You can’t have it both ways.

(I’m in the sack him if I thought we could get better camp by the way) 

[Dreams of 1995]

Where has this idea that Darren Moore is a failure come from? He was sacked whilst WBA were in 3rd and 98% of baggies fans were gobsmacked by the decision.