Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Where has this idea that Darren Moore is a failure come from? He was sacked whilst WBA were in 3rd and 98% of baggies fans were gobsmacked by the decision.

From people who don't know what they are talking about. Many things get stated here that are incorrect , then picked up as being reality. 

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Tony Mowbray vs. Championship 'rookie' managers [since the start of the his tenure on 23rd February 2017 until present day]

*By rookie, I mean managers in their first managerial job.

Warren Joyce (Wigan Athletic), Darren Moore (West Bromwich Albion), Frank Lampard (Derby County) and Jonathon Woodgate (Middlesbrough)

4/3/17 - Wigan Athletic (h) 1-0: Emnes

18/9/18 - Derby County (a) 0-0

27/10/18 - West Bromwich Albion (a) 1-1: Reed

1/1/19 - West Bromwich Albion (h) 2-1: Mulgrew, Dack

9/4/19 - Derby County (h) 2-0: Rothwell, Dack

17/8/19 - Middlebrough (h) 1-0: Graham pen

P6 W4 D2 L0 F7 A2 Pts14

 

If you want to include his whole reign as Rovers boss, also include:

Ryan Lowe (Bury) and Dan Micciche (Milton Keynes Dons)

19/2/18 - Bury (h) 2-0: Graham, Armstrong

2/4/18 - Milton Keynes Dons (a) 2-1: Armstrong 2

P8 W6 D2 L0 F11 A3 Pts20

To be fair someone of his experience and given what's at his disposal i.e competitive squad and budget he should be able to out think plenty rookies.  How does he fare coming up against similar to himself would be more interesting ?

[roversfan99]

They were 4th, but closer to 8th than 2nd and struggling for form and consistency, especially at home. 

I remember being shocked when he was sacked and thinking it was harsh so looked into it and found that West Brom fans were actually surprisingly understanding of the decision compared to the media who perhaps are speaking from a far less knowledgable perspective. Certainly far better off with Bilic now.

Interesting article below regarding the up turn after sacking him.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/west-brom-sacking-darren-moore-mistake-championship-play-off-promotion-premier-league

[rog of the rovers]

1 hour ago, RV Blue said:

Ignoring the extremely small sample size, all of those managers, bar Lampard, were failures. He’s bound to have a better record against managers that failed at their respective clubs.

I agree with the sample size being small, but interesting facts nonetheless, people can read as much or as little into as they want.

Edited August 20, 2019 by rog of the rovers

[JBiz]

3 hours ago, TBTF said:

He is a genuine football persons man but one that many think is being left behind in a fast moving football world-tactically  & technically .Eg I'd describe David Pleat as a genuine football man but the game has moved on dramatically way past him and many others.

Expectations on here  are based on the statements TM and the club have made and the amounts that have been spent .Don't doubt his intentions but certainly question his ability to deliver on them on a number of levels.

Did you listen to the interview about investing this summer in IT and creating a new analysis system/booths for the first team coaches to use?

I felt a bit embarrassed for the way he mentioned learning it was “like riding a bike”, however the crux is he and his team are embracing the opportunity. Game has certainly moved on, but I think these developments suggest TM isn’t ignoring the obvious or being stubborn and stuck in the mud.

As for the money spent, we’re talking the last two seasons, is absolutely paltry in this league right now.

I know, others have spent less, got more - and I know that was “our” money AKA a lot of responsibility for the club to invest, but I agree with TM in that our squad is looking very strong in dimensions compared to last season. That’s not just down to signings either, continuation of the academy has been key.

Especially when you take relative cost into account. Assombalonga, for example, is rumoured to be paid more than twice our top earner, despite our apparent interest.

http://financialfootballnews.com/category/blackburn/

That’s essentially a year old now, but it gives a real flavour of what we are up against compared to say;

http://financialfootballnews.com/derby-county-fcs-2018-finances/

Hence why I personally think many reactive opinions in this thread are way off in their judgement of what should’ve or could’ve been done so far.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

They were 4th, but closer to 8th than 2nd and struggling for form and consistency, especially at home. 

I remember being shocked when he was sacked and thinking it was harsh so looked into it and found that West Brom fans were actually surprisingly understanding of the decision compared to the media who perhaps are speaking from a far less knowledgable perspective. Certainly far better off with Bilic now.

Interesting article below regarding the up turn after sacking him.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/west-brom-sacking-darren-moore-mistake-championship-play-off-promotion-premier-league

what up turn? they finish 4th in the league at the end of the season. Maybe Moore would have done better in the playoffs than caretaker manager JImmy Shan did

Yes Jenkins(CEO) and Dowling(DoF) sacked Moore without any sort of plan in place of a replacement. Turned down by Jokanovic and Neil for the job. 

[RV Blue]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

From people who don't know what they are talking about. Many things get stated here that are incorrect , then picked up as being reality. 

 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

They were 4th, but closer to 8th than 2nd and struggling for form and consistency, especially at home. 

I remember being shocked when he was sacked and thinking it was harsh so looked into it and found that West Brom fans were actually surprisingly understanding of the decision compared to the media who perhaps are speaking from a far less knowledgable perspective. Certainly far better off with Bilic now.

Interesting article below regarding the up turn after sacking him.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/west-brom-sacking-darren-moore-mistake-championship-play-off-promotion-premier-league

Read this Bigdog, & be careful when you say that someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about, people in glass houses and all that. He’s now managing League 1 Doncaster, strange how that’s the best offer he got after doing such a sterling job with WBA, isn’t it? He’s a failure.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, RV Blue said:

 

Read this Bigdog, & be careful when you say that someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about, people in glass houses and all that. He’s now managing League 1 Doncaster, strange how that’s the best offer he got after doing such a sterling job with WBA, isn’t it? He’s a failure.

No he isn't. Doncaster is his second job and he hasn't lost a game with them yet.

He did exactly the same as most expected WBA to do and was still on track to get them into the play offs. Just because roversfan99 has posted something that agrees with you doesn't mean it's set in stone. Plenty of other posters agree with BDS in saying otherwise.

As for roversfan99's opinion of the baggies fans I actually live in the area and it was overwhelmingly the opposite - most believed Moore should have stayed after they appointed Shan. The only reason it was kind of forgotten about was because ultimately they knew they could attract a far more established manager eventually.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, RV Blue said:

 

Read this Bigdog, & be careful when you say that someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about, people in glass houses and all that. He’s now managing League 1 Doncaster, strange how that’s the best offer he got after doing such a sterling job with WBA, isn’t it? He’s a failure.

People in glass houses? Do you know how that metaphor works? Not sure you do

No, it's not really that strange that he is managing Doncaster at all. He got the WBA  job too soon in his career, barring being promoted, the only way was down. I am sure their fans were expecting automatic promotion, so anything outside of that would have been seen as under-performing. Ultimately they didn't get promoted after sacking him and maybe he would have done better. The guy they replaced him with certainly wasn't much better in my opinion. 

[RV Blue]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

People in glass houses? Do you know how that metaphor works? Not sure you do

No, it's not really that strange that he is managing Doncaster at all. He got the WBA  job too soon in his career, barring being promoted, the only way was down. I am sure their fans were expecting automatic promotion, so anything outside of that would have been seen as under-performing. Ultimately they didn't get promoted after sacking him and maybe he would have done better. The guy they replaced him with certainly wasn't much better in my opinion. 

I know exactly how that *proverb* works. Do you know what a metaphor means? Not sure you do.

And it turns out that you actually agree that he failed, weird argument to start.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, RV Blue said:

And it turns out that you actually agree that he failed, weird argument to start.

No, I said that we will never know because he was fired. He could only have done better than they eventually did without him. Wouldn't have been possible to do any worse. 

 

[Ewood Ace]

I remember when Darren Moore was sacked and I wasn't a bit surprised. To be well adrift of automatic promotion with 10 games to go with the squad he had was a failure.

[tomphil]

Got it right again tonight credit where it's due his signings in that formation look good along with booting out a defensive weak link and replacing him with someone more physical.

Still big questions over Bennett in that position though and Hull were terrible in front of goal thankfully, on another night it could've gone wrong again but we'll take it.

[Madon]

All aboard the Mowbray Express, next stop, Premier League! Who wants a ticket?

[DE.]

Just now, tomphil said:

Got it right again tonight credit where it's due his signings in that formation look good along with booting out a defensive weak link and replacing him with someone more physical.

Still big questions over Bennett in that position though and Hull were terrible in front of goal thankfully, on another night it could've gone wrong again but we'll take it.

Although we won I wouldn't say he got everything right. Gallagher out wide and Arma up top was a mistake that hindered us until Gallagher came off and Arma went out wide. Armstrong also could easily have cost us our goal with his positioning, although it's possible he's been told to do that. Bennett at right back is also wrong and repeatedly put us on the back foot when we didn't need to be.

Travis/Johnson partnership is looking good. Del/Lenihan/Tosin as CB options look solid. Downing has started strong, hopefully his legs will hold out for the whole season because he's a difference maker. Cunningham at LB is superb but if he gets injured we're screwed. 

Better teams will take advantage of our inability to score from open play and very weak right hand side, but Hull weren't that team tonight. Still plenty of work to be done.

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

Although we won I wouldn't say he got everything right. Gallagher out wide and Arma up top was a mistake that hindered us until Gallagher came off and Arma went out wide. Armstrong also could easily have cost us our goal with his positioning, although it's possible he's been told to do that. Bennett at right back is also wrong and repeatedly put us on the back foot when we didn't need to be.

Subjective, so you’re allowed to think that - but we consistently got in behind with Armstrong’s pace because they press high up. Gallagher also then offered plenty of pressing, aerial knockdowns and won the free kick for the goal with a wonderful touch out wide.

Second point, Bennett for me is now a weak point for sure, but in some ways - it can’t be ignored that he repeatedly put us on the front foot with clever touches, constantly being in position to support the Gally knock down with our press or diagonal, and another few decent balls in the box or down the flank.

This is why I tear my hair out at “square pegs” closed mindedness, because there is plenty of argument to suggest there is method in the decision making. Even if you’re own take isn’t “Mowbrayesque”

 

[Wood26]

Still can’t believe people want Mowbray out. We deserved more first 2 games, and now got a great 6 points with 2 clean sheets.

He was criticised for his transfers, yet Downing is a great addition, Cunningham looks good, Johnson is a vast improvement on Evans and Smallwood, and he’s got a good centre back pairing in Williams and Lenihan.

Do people really want us to sack him now? That’s just crazy. Is he perfect? Not at all. Has he built a good team? Yes.

This is Mowbrays season to see where he can take us and on the 4 games so far I am giving him the backing he deserves.

 

[JBiz]

Might be my favourite ever Mowbrayism

[DE.]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Subjective, so you’re allowed to think that

And indeed I do. I don't think we'll see the Gallagher/Armstrong experiment again personally, but we'll see. I don't think Armstrong has the intelligence to play up top by himself, as evidenced by his repeated offsides, and Gallagher is simply not a winger. Plenty of endeavour but he's better served in the middle.

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Might be my favourite ever Mowbrayism

 hah. I wonder how often he's swearing at Bennett during games?

[Mercer]

Two clean sheets and league wins on the bounce is a start but Mowbray still has a long way to go to convince.

Let's keep some perspective - we've defeated two very ordinary teams in M'boro and Hull.

I also think Mowbray has spunked £14million up the wall on Armstrong, Brereton and Gallagher - couldn't believe the stat that Gallagher has now gone some 21 league games without a goal! 

 

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

I’m not convinced Mowbray is going to take us up but Downing, Cunningham and Johnson have vastly improved this team. 

This isn’t about point scoring but considering some of the hysteria on here back in July, it’s time to have some perspective. Is anyone missing Mulgrew??

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

And indeed I do. I don't think we'll see the Gallagher/Armstrong experiment again personally, but we'll see. I don't think Armstrong has the intelligence to play up top by himself, as evidenced by his repeated offsides, and Gallagher is simply not a winger. Plenty of endeavour but he's better served in the middle.

 hah. I wonder how often he's swearing at Bennett during games?

I don’t think it’s an experiment.

Its no secret Mowbray likes to play a shape or style based on the opposition.

Some call it negative but others proactive - I think if you look, we beat Hull 1-0 with Armstrong playing central on his own 12 months ago.

Maybe they have a full back poor in air, and a slower set of central defenders compared to most teams - and thus at home, expected to push on, more room for Adam (I agree has to improve movement) to exploit.

His other quote in the interview was also great on Travis;

”I think he gives it away to win it back”..

Now he also called him a warrior, a Trojan, a spirited individual who makes us tick - and I think it’s got to be mentioned just what a player our club is developing with him. Absolutely wins balls for fun. Good old fashioned ball winning midfielder, and the signing of Johnson might be a masterpiece since he’s the experience to guide Travis on and is a huge upgrade on Evans et al.

[Stuart]

We’ve won nothing yet. Great back to back results - in part thanks to opposition poor finishing but also a good style of football. There are things to tweak. Gallagher and Armstrong need a lot of work but a team is forming. Downing has been the player that we all thought Murphy and Whittingham would have been. Experience, quality but still hungry.

Until this club achieves Premier League football, it still needs Premier League football. We still have it all to do and if Venkys lose faith or patience with the project it could be the Bowyer slash and burn and relegation to follow a period of backing. Mowbray didn’t look comfortable in interviews before or after the game tonight. Has he been told he has this season? Does he need to be in the play-off places to get more budget in January? He has saved face for them time and again since he has been here and he will expect some loyalty back but money talks.

Well done tonight Tony.

[DE.]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I don’t think it’s an experiment.

Its no secret Mowbray likes to play a shape or style based on the opposition.

Some call it negative but others proactive - I think if you look, we beat Hull 1-0 with Armstrong playing central on his own 12 months ago.

Maybe they have a full back poor in air, and a slower set of central defenders compared to most teams - and thus at home, expected to push on, more room for Adam (I agree has to improve movement) to exploit.

 His other quote in the interview was also great on Travis;

”I think he gives it away to win it back”..

Now he also called him a warrior, a Trojan, a spirited individual who makes us tick - and I think it’s got to be mentioned just what a player our club is developing with him. Absolutely wins balls for fun. Good old fashioned ball winning midfielder, and the signing of Johnson might be a masterpiece since he’s the experience to guide Travis on and is a huge upgrade on Evans et al.

I didn't realise he played Arma up top against Hull last season as well. Interesting. That said we didn't see him up top much otherwise, so I don't think it'll be a regular thing.

He's not wrong on Travis, makes the dark days of Evans and Smallwood seem a million miles away (other than cup matches...).

[Wood26]

I’m a big fan of Armstrong starting. That pace is something opposition have to worry about. Having Dack & Downing to do the fancy build up play, but also having that outlet of Armstrong is key for us.

I like Rothwell obviously, but Fulham for example he was non existent where as Armstrong was our main threat.

I am just glad we finally have options to pick from, nice problem to have.

jjs