Tony Mowbray Discussion

[DE.]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I think potentially that a good manager could maybe overachieve and get us in there if the side became well drilled, organised, with clarity and a clear outlook that suited the players here. 

I think that's the key. We need a manager who can not only make the team better than the sum of its parts, but also somebody who can get these inconsistent players performing with a level of consistency. I think the raw talent exists in the team for a top six push, even with the defence as it is, but without a proper winner in the dugout demanding 100% week-in week-out we aren't going to get anywhere close. Not too dissimilar to how it was under Bowyer. 

[Ulrich]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

I think that's the key. We need a manager who can not only make the team better than the sum of its parts, but also somebody who can get these inconsistent players performing with a level of consistency. I think the raw talent exists in the team for a top six push, even with the defence as it is, but without a proper winner in the dugout demanding 100% week-in week-out we aren't going to get anywhere close. Not too dissimilar to how it was under Bowyer. 

The Stoke match demonstrated just how poorly drilled we are as a team. Headless chickens. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

41 minutes ago, Ulrich said:

The Stoke match demonstrated just how poorly drilled we are as a team. Headless chickens. 

At least headless chickens would have run around a bit. We looked like we were in quicksand first half..I suppose we almost were, but it didn't seem to impact Stoke as much. 

[Mattyblue]

This article is pretty damning from the increasingly brazen Sharpe (he’ll be getting his lanyard taken away).

Some highlights - 

- Haven’t scored a header from a corner since 2019

- One headed goal all season 

- Fewest goals from set pieces in the division.

Certainly points to poor coaching.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19025039.stats-reasons-behind-rovers-set-pieces-struggles/

[RoverKyle]

I think most on here are resigned to the fact we need to move on from Mowbray to progress. Looking at our next 5 games, a team with aspirations would be looking to maximise points. It's a completely unrealistic target but if we don't take maximum points (or near enough) from those games, I'd have him out of the door. Teams that do well in the Championship go on a serious run at some point and these games give us the chance to do that.

Not saying that we've ever shown the ability to take maximum points from these games, but a middling to poor return from these games will all but end our shot at the playoffs. 

Boro (A), Luton (H), QPR (A), Preston (H), Barnsley (A)

Over to you Tony. I've got no time for the excuses anymore. For reference, my major red flags (or Mowbray out moments) were the conceding of the title in the L1 season (Charlton away) and the pre game interview & result against Preston last season (when we lost 3-2 after being 2 up).

Edited January 20, 2021 by RoverKyle

[Ghost7]

22 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

This article is pretty damning from the increasingly brazen Sharpe (he’ll be getting his lanyard taken away).

Some highlights - 

- Haven’t scored a header from a corner since 2019

- One headed goal all season 

- Fewest goals from set pieces in the division.

Certainly points to poor coaching.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19025039.stats-reasons-behind-rovers-set-pieces-struggles/

That's exactly what it is.

[G Somerset Rover]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

This article is pretty damning from the increasingly brazen Sharpe (he’ll be getting his lanyard taken away).

Some highlights - 

- Haven’t scored a header from a corner since 2019

- One headed goal all season 

- Fewest goals from set pieces in the division.

Certainly points to poor coaching.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19025039.stats-reasons-behind-rovers-set-pieces-struggles/

I mentioned a while ago but Stephen Warnock spoke to the athletic recently about Allardyce’s first few days at Rovers. It was straight to set pieces and defending. Who stands where, who marks who etc. At first the players were like ‘what is this guy about?’. However, he said the penny quickly dropped with them and he improved us overnight. Marginal gains and a little something called tactical nous.  

Mowbray hasn’t improved us one bit defensively... in FOUR years! 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[Mashed Potatoes]

13 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I mentioned a while ago but Stephen Warnock spoke to the athletic recently about Allardyce’s first few days at Rovers. It was straight to set pieces and defending. Who stands where, who marks who etc. At first the players were like ‘what is this guy about?’. However, he said the penny quickly dropped with them and he improved us overnight. Marginal gains and a little something called tactical nous.  

Mowbray hasn’t improved us one bit defensively... in FOUR years! 

If we haven't improved defensively why are we conceding fewer goals per game than the last 2 seasons ?

[roversfan99]

One thing that really worries me is that Mowbray recently remarked that he delegates set pieces to his coaching staff. Why has he not bothered to intervene considering how bad they are?

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

If we haven't improved defensively why are we conceding fewer goals per game than the last 2 seasons ?

Out of interest and apologies if posted elsewhere, but solely on the job Mowbray has done and where you deem us to be at the moment, on the assumption that the next manager isnt "another Coyle" would you stick with Mowbray or feel it is time for a change and why?

[Mashed Potatoes]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest and apologies if posted elsewhere, but solely on the job Mowbray has done and where you deem us to be at the moment, on the assumption that the next manager isnt "another Coyle" would you stick with Mowbray or feel it is time for a change and why?

I would certainly be prepared to give him until the end of the season. I know people are frustrated with things but I do think that there has been some improvement; right now our problem is getting the first goal in games - when we do we go on and win. We are a bit like Leicester in that we are at our best when the opposition are pushing on against us ; unlike Leicester we have not yet advanced to the position of making it more difficult for the opposition to get that first goal and having the ingenuity in midfield to open the opposition up to score it. However I don't think we are a million miles away - particularly as we have a lot of young players. 

What I am simply not going to do is join those who find fault with everything - the latest being blaming the manager for a game being postponed.

[Gav]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Out of interest and apologies if posted elsewhere, but solely on the job Mowbray has done and where you deem us to be at the moment, on the assumption that the next manager isnt "another Coyle" would you stick with Mowbray or feel it is time for a change and why?

I know this isn't a question for me 99, but my take on that question is this:

I said a few weeks ago that replacing Mowbray depends on which camp you fall into.

• One camp believe that we should be playoff and promotion candidates, get rid now if thats the case, he's had enough time and isn't taking us up.
• The camp I'm in believe we will never go up while we have Venkys running the show, replacing the manager will make no difference in terms of promotion, but we could go down.

Its as simple as that for me.

 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

IF Warnock had been appointed and given the transfer funds made available to Mowbray the we would have gone up and under Vs dire ownership model.

That's the camp I'm in. 

[Gav]

24 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

IF Warnock had been appointed and given the transfer funds made available to Mowbray the we would have gone up and under Vs dire ownership model.

That's the camp I'm in. 

You could be right, we’ll never know.

It’s just another example of why we will never go up under Venky ownership. 

[roversfan99]

33 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I would certainly be prepared to give him until the end of the season. I know people are frustrated with things but I do think that there has been some improvement; right now our problem is getting the first goal in games - when we do we go on and win. We are a bit like Leicester in that we are at our best when the opposition are pushing on against us ; unlike Leicester we have not yet advanced to the position of making it more difficult for the opposition to get that first goal and having the ingenuity in midfield to open the opposition up to score it. However I don't think we are a million miles away - particularly as we have a lot of young players. 

What I am simply not going to do is join those who find fault with everything - the latest being blaming the manager for a game being postponed.

I personally havent seen the improvement, we have just been bumbling around mid table, never picking up with points with enough consistency to get close to the top 6 or to improve on last season, with form getting worse and worse. What is the improvement you see? What makes you think we arent far away?

You mention getting the first goal but I dont see any logic for assuming that it is something that will change, I believe our record of goals in first halves is poor across Mowbrays tenure here, something Rich Sharpe touched on recently. And you are obviously far less likely to lose games if you score the first goal, but we repeatedly are not doing. Its easier for anyone to win games when a goal up.

I just look at various signs too of poor management. We have scored the least from set pieces in the division, we regularly come up with shambolic routines and the manager has not seen fit to intervene, merely allowing his coaches to crack on. We concede far more from set pieces than we score. We also might have a marginally better defensive record compared to last season but clean sheets are few and far between, if you have to score 2 or more to win then you are facing an uphill battle.

I also look at performance levels which if anything seem to be getting worse and worse and the style is based on flawed principles. You dont have to dominate possession to win games, especially if it is in ways that cause more problems than benefits, for example, we dont have defenders with the ball playing capabilities to play out from the back, and the shape of the midfield 3 seems to leave it further exposed.

The last comment seems unnecessary, who has claimed that the game was postponed seriously because of Mowbray. If anyone has, its a ridiculous belief of someone in the minority.

32 minutes ago, Gav said:

I know this isn't a question for me 99, but my take on that question is this:

I said a few weeks ago that replacing Mowbray depends on which camp you fall into.

• One camp believe that we should be playoff and promotion candidates, get rid now if thats the case, he's had enough time and isn't taking us up.
• The camp I'm in believe we will never go up while we have Venkys running the show, replacing the manager will make no difference in terms of promotion, but we could go down.

Its as simple as that for me.

 

 

Its not as straightforward as there being 2 camps, but I dont get why we cant at least hope for promotion even under Venkys, who nobody hates more than me. Promotion may be in spite of them, but it takes one good season, one good appointment, and why bother if you cant keep a flicker of hope of success even if it isnt entirely even logical or realistic? When we appointed Coyle, I was fuming but I didnt accept relegation before the season, even though I knew it was possible. I get what you are saying but sometimes a football fan dreams and hopes in the face of logic and probability.

I also dont get the fear of not being able to replace a manager who is clearly in a rut, surely if the argument is that Venkys couldnt possibly get better, how did they manage to attract Mowbray in the first place? Whether its pure luck, an agent link, whatever, it is not definite that we would find another Coyle, we could improve on a manager who was on the scrapheap before he came here but has done a good job yet hit a wall.

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I personally havent seen the improvement, we have just been bumbling around mid table, never picking up with points with enough consistency to get close to the top 6 or to improve on last season, with form getting worse and worse. What is the improvement you see? What makes you think we arent far away?

You mention getting the first goal but I dont see any logic for assuming that it is something that will change, I believe our record of goals in first halves is poor across Mowbrays tenure here, something Rich Sharpe touched on recently. And you are obviously far less likely to lose games if you score the first goal, but we repeatedly are not doing. Its easier for anyone to win games when a goal up.

I just look at various signs too of poor management. We have scored the least from set pieces in the division, we regularly come up with shambolic routines and the manager has not seen fit to intervene, merely allowing his coaches to crack on. We concede far more from set pieces than we score. We also might have a marginally better defensive record compared to last season but clean sheets are few and far between, if you have to score 2 or more to win then you are facing an uphill battle.

I also look at performance levels which if anything seem to be getting worse and worse and the style is based on flawed principles. You dont have to dominate possession to win games, especially if it is in ways that cause more problems than benefits, for example, we dont have defenders with the ball playing capabilities to play out from the back, and the shape of the midfield 3 seems to leave it further exposed.

The last comment seems unnecessary, who has claimed that the game was postponed seriously because of Mowbray. If anyone has, its a ridiculous belief of someone in the minority.

Its not as straightforward as there being 2 camps, but I dont get why we cant at least hope for promotion even under Venkys, who nobody hates more than me. Promotion may be in spite of them, but it takes one good season, one good appointment, and why bother if you cant keep a flicker of hope of success even if it isnt entirely even logical or realistic? When we appointed Coyle, I was fuming but I didnt accept relegation before the season, even though I knew it was possible. I get what you are saying but sometimes a football fan dreams and hopes in the face of logic and probability.

I also dont get the fear of not being able to replace a manager who is clearly in a rut, surely if the argument is that Venkys couldnt possibly get better, how did they manage to attract Mowbray in the first place? Whether its pure luck, an agent link, whatever, it is not definite that we would find another Coyle, we could improve on a manager who was on the scrapheap before he came here but has done a good job yet hit a wall.

Thanks. Regarding the postponement go on to the Swansea match thread and you will see Mowbray getting the blame - apparently due to Sam Hart getting a 1 month extension on his contract.

We have a lot of young players and I think patience is the right way forward - I  have no sympathy whatever with those who post to the effect that John Buckley is not a footballer.

As I said the problem is getting that first goal - we are not perfect and I agree with you on the set pieces but those should not be a massive problem.

I think last season we got more early goals than anyone else.

 

 

[jim mk2]

4 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I agree with you on the set pieces but those should not be a massive problem.

They've been a problem as long as Mowbray has been at the club. He doesn't know how to coach defenders or set up a defence properly. 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Thanks. Regarding the postponement go on to the Swansea match thread and you will see Mowbray getting the blame - apparently due to Sam Hart getting a 1 month extension on his contract.

We have a lot of young players and I think patience is the right way forward - I  have no sympathy whatever with those who post to the effect that John Buckley is not a footballer.

As I said the problem is getting that first goal - we are not perfect and I agree with you on the set pieces but those should not be a massive problem.

I think last season we got more early goals than anyone else.

 

 

The Sam Hart extension and some of the others understably aggravated a lot of people, especially at a time when the club was pleading poverty and not offering refunds. It seems hyperbole to suggest that mentioning this is directly stating that Mowbray was to blame for the postponement.

I personally dont rate Buckley, as much as I appreciated his goal on Saturday. I understand that he is young but I feel his weaknesses go beyond his obvious physical limitations and that he takes too long on the ball and doesnt appreciate the pictures around him. Praising or indeed criticising a player and the lack of patience you perceive the latter to be is not really relevant, this is a forum to share opinions on players. I dont rate Buckley, I wouldnt have him in the squad and I would loan him out. I wouldnt put money on him making a real impact for us but of course I dont rule it out. But that doesnt mean that people dont support him if he wears a Rovers shirt. 

I dont share your relaxed attitude towards our repeated habit of conceding first and especially the set pieces which is compounded by the fact that Mowbray has delegated this crucial task and hasnt seen fit to take control again. Both are signs backing up an inability to improve on last seasons results and displaying poor form, if anything these areas seem to be showing decline, not improvement.

[Leonard Venkhater]

54 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

IF Warnock had been appointed and given the transfer funds made available to Mowbray the we would have gone up and under Vs dire ownership model.

That's the camp I'm in. 

Interesting..

I think that the very act of giving back word to Warnock and Jepson, in order to install Coyle actually typifies the Venky's dire model.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

 

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I personally dont rate Buckley, as much as I appreciated his goal on Saturday. I understand that he is young but I feel his weaknesses go beyond his obvious physical limitations and that he takes too long on the ball and doesnt appreciate the pictures around him.

Please stop repeating that. It's utter nonsense.

 

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I wouldnt put money on him making a real impact for us but of course I dont rule it out.

Nailed your colours firmly to the mast there🙄

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

 

Please stop repeating that. It's utter nonsense.

 

Nailed your colours firmly to the mast there🙄

I dont think he will ever be a stand out Championship midfielder but I would love to be proven wrong.

He often takes far too long on the ball which for me suggests that maybe he isnt aware of what is around him.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He often takes far too long on the ball which for me suggests that maybe he isnt aware of what is around him.

Or he's actually capable of more than a 10 yard sideways pass and is looking for a bit of movement ahead of him. Quality player is Bucko, he'll prove a lot of people wrong in time. Just not a right-back. Played in his more favoured position and scored the other day. Probably not a coincidence.

That pass against Wycombe tells you everything you need to know about the quality he has. Obviously you dismissed it as being against 10 men which was utterly irrelevant to the weight and timing of the pass. 

[Stonesrick]

39 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The Sam Hart extension and some of the others understably aggravated a lot of people, especially at a time when the club was pleading poverty and not offering refunds. It seems hyperbole to suggest that mentioning this is directly stating that Mowbray was to blame for the postponement.

I personally dont rate Buckley, as much as I appreciated his goal on Saturday. I understand that he is young but I feel his weaknesses go beyond his obvious physical limitations and that he takes too long on the ball and doesnt appreciate the pictures around him. Praising or indeed criticising a player and the lack of patience you perceive the latter to be is not really relevant, this is a forum to share opinions on players. I dont rate Buckley, I wouldnt have him in the squad and I would loan him out. I wouldnt put money on him making a real impact for us but of course I dont rule it out. But that doesnt mean that people dont support him if he wears a Rovers shirt. 

I dont share your relaxed attitude towards our repeated habit of conceding first and especially the set pieces which is compounded by the fact that Mowbray has delegated this crucial task and hasnt seen fit to take control again. Both are signs backing up an inability to improve on last seasons results and displaying poor form, if anything these areas seem to be showing decline, not improvement.

Interesting that when Big Sam came in to replace Ince who had Nigel Winterburn as his defensive coach, when Sam was asked if he was retaining Winterburn, he said “No I won’t because from now on I will be the defensive coach”.

That is an example of taking responsibility.

 

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Or he's actually capable of more than a 10 yard sideways pass and is looking for a bit of movement ahead of him. Quality player is Bucko, he'll prove a lot of people wrong in time. Just not a right-back. Played in his more favoured position and scored the other day. Probably not a coincidence.

That pass against Wycombe tells you everything you need to know about the quality he has. Obviously you dismissed it as being against 10 men which was utterly irrelevant to the weight and timing of the pass. 

It was a very good pass. My point if I recall was more that in a couple of games v 10 men when we was a few up, he looked at home, but I felt that in the other games he looked a little lost. He started v was it Forest and looked embarrassingly out of his depth to the point that I felt sorry for him.

I dont see how he gets in the team in his favoured position now that Dack is back. Surely a loan makes sense for all parties?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It was a very good pass. My point if I recall was more that in a couple of games v 10 men when we was a few up, he looked at home, but I felt that in the other games he looked a little lost. He started v was it Forest and looked embarrassingly out of his depth to the point that I felt sorry for him.

I dont see how he gets in the team in his favoured position now that Dack is back. Surely a loan makes sense for all parties?

Absolutely a loan spell. He needs football in midfield. No point playing him at RB and having his confidence destroyed.