Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I think there are many on here getting over excited with the content and missing out on the real context.

Ok Paul, in what context should we take the fans aren't happy because they remember winning the Premier League? I won't go over all the reasons why it is a lie again, but the statement clearly is both false and manipulative, so what context makes that acceptable? 

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

 

In truth, much of what he said is right. Of course he’s going to slant things his way but there’s nothing new there.

Some of it may well be factually correct but it is hugely distorted! For example he is right saying we have had had a ton of centre backs out, but the reason is he assembled crocks there. That's like someone complaining no one would interview me for an education job but ommiting they can't get or pass a DBA! It's half a story and ultimately is their fault. 

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

 

i've had lots of people leave my business and never once have I heard a person say “I’m really sorry, I’m just not good enough”...but are you telling me that there isn’t a section of our fans that are NEVER happy!?

Yes I am telling you that those is no section of fans who are never happy because we aren't winning the Premier League. Also the some never happy is a straw man argument. By this logic should we not reduce criticism of Ince, Coyle etc.

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Is he lying about the impact of losing 2/4 of your cb’s for the season and another for 6/8 weeks wouldn’t be catastrophic for any club?

See above it helps when you don't just assemble crocks. Also when you have a ton of midfielders stockpiled but no defenders, again you might think the manager is somewhat culpable. 

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

 

Of course there’s embellishment...BUT the real questions I think we should be asking ourselves are...

Hang on the morality of what he says and the reasons why are both good questions but they are seperate ones. One doesn't prevent the other unless you are trying to gloss ove the wrongdoing. 

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

”why has he suddenly decided to do this interview and defend his position?”

”why did he choose his pal to interview him?”

”why is he suddenly reeling off more excuses than ever?”

”what’s changed?”

Imo he’s nothing like Kean and he doesn’t deserve that comparison. He’s a good guy who’s done a good job and realises that he may have run his race...he obviously feels under pressure.

Disagree on the good job and the good guy comments too. We'll gloss over the good job element for now (a whole other debate) but good guys do not make these sort of lies up. Morality may be tricky but statements which are so blatantly untrue and manipulative clearly.arejt the remit of good guys. 

Also if anyone didn't know that statement clearly could sit alongside many of Keans. Not saying he is the same but the statement is Kean-esque. You are trying to defend the indefensible. 

 

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Im convinced it’s the beginning of the end. I just hope it all gets handled in a classy way. 

I hope you are right though TM.isjt making it classy 

 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Douglas had to play RB one match. That’s all I can think of.

And we won that match!

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I think there are many on here getting over excited with the content and missing out on the real context. In truth, much of what he said is right. Of course he’s going to slant things his way but there’s nothing new there. I’ve had lots of people leave my business and never once have I heard a person say “I’m really sorry, I’m just not good enough”...but are you telling me that there isn’t a section of our fans that are NEVER happy!? Is he lying about the impact of losing 2/4 of your cb’s for the season and another for 6/8 weeks wouldn’t be catastrophic for any club? Of course there’s embellishment...BUT the real questions I think we should be asking ourselves are...

”why has he suddenly decided to do this interview and defend his position?”

”why did he choose his pal to interview him?”

”why is he suddenly reeling off more excuses than ever?”

”what’s changed?”

Imo he’s nothing like Kean and he doesn’t deserve that comparison. He’s a good guy who’s done a good job and realises that he may have run his race...he obviously feels under pressure.

Im convinced it’s the beginning of the end. I just hope it all gets handled in a classy way. 

I think that unfortunately you are perhaps reading too much into it. I doubt the owners would even understand the random points he put across about missing players, full backs in the wrong position etc. We are kidding ourselves by implying that Venkys give a shit or have a real dedication and vested interest. Mowbray loves a natter, if he senses any "pressure" it will probably be minor criticisms from social media etc via the local journalists, of course watered down.

I also think that an inability to pay a 6 figure fee to Crewe for a full back and also cutbacks regarding the pitch to the point that it has become as bad as it has shows that they are not willing to just sign of cheques whenever asked.

You are correct that he isnt like Kean and I think anyone implying otherwise is just doing so out of pure frustration.

[Miker]

21 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Boro and QPR - Won 1 Drew 1. Doesn't really fit with Mogga's narrative of reasons why we've struggled. 

Which was the other?

Loss at Swansea. 

Where in that article has he said that having 0 LBs was the reason for our struggles this season? He was asked a question about whether selection was harder due to injuries and COVID this season, and he’s just said yes and given examples.

We’ve fielded a different back four every game for at least the past 5 games. Compare that to Boro who we’re facing tomorrow who have fielded the same back four for the last 5 games. You seriously think that hasn’t impacted our season in any way?

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Miker said:

Loss at Swansea. 

Where in that article has he said that having 0 LBs was the reason for our struggles this season? He was asked a question about whether selection was harder due to injuries and COVID this season, and he’s just said yes and given examples.

We’ve fielded a different back four every game for at least the past 5 games. Compare that to Boro who we’re facing tomorrow who have fielded the same back four for the last 5 games. You seriously think that hasn’t impacted our season in any way?

The problems are mainly self inflicted. He chose to sign one centre back rather than 2, and the one he chose was one who hadnt played for 9 months who had a reputation as a sick note. The main reason he chose to sign one rather than two was because that he chose to reject the advances from Swansea who wanted to take another sick note in Williams off our hands. Signing Ayala AND keeping Williams was always an incredibly risky move. At left back, part of the problem has been down purely to poor performances by both left backs, one of whom we knew was poor yet he re-signed, and one who he didnt sign until the last day of the window who he has been lucky to get as much football from as he has based on his recent injury history.

It doesnt come down to resources either. In central midfield, we already had Travis, Davenport, Johnson, Evans, Buckley, Rothwell and Holtby. Was there a need to add both Trybull and Downing? Probably not.

The defensive issues are far from this season and added to the fact that every team has had injury and covid issues this season, quite a few far worse than ourselves and the excuses dont really wash any more.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

22 minutes ago, Miker said:

Where in that article has he said that having 0 LBs was the reason for our struggles this season? He was asked a question about whether selection was harder due to injuries and COVID this season, and he’s just said yes and given examples.

Have you listened to the podcast? He wasn't asked that question at all. He was asked about Venky's and how they aren't in the headlines any more, he then went on about how great he was and then trotted out a list of excuses as to why we aren't doing well at the moment. . And that article from Sharpe is copied from the podcast. Sharpe wasn't asking the questions. I'd listen to the podcast and then take it from there. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

 

why didn't Mowbray play Thompson at left back. Are the U23's not the ones who should cover when the first teamers are not available ?

ism Thompson ready for first team action?

[rigger]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

ism Thompson ready for first team action?

As cover, he should be. His instructions would have been, just mark your player, tackle him whenever you can. Do not get dragged out of position. when in doubt, clear your lines. He is still a professional footballer. I would expect a professional at any walk of life to be able to fill in for someone of better ability for a short time.

Edited January 23, 2021 by rigger

[chaddyrovers]

17 minutes ago, rigger said:

As cover, he should be. His instructions would have been, just mark your player, tackle him whenever you can. Do not get dragged out of position. when in doubt, clear your lines. He is still a professional footballer. I would expect a professional at any walk of life to be able to fill in for someone of better ability for a short time.

he needs first team football at lower level whether league 1 or 2 club. Probably Conference level

[rigger]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

he needs first team football at lower level whether league 1 or 2 club. Probably Conference level

Thompson would have only been a stop-gap, not taking the position permanently. Instead we played an almost equally inexperienced player, in an unfamiliar position. 

[Miker]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The problems are mainly self inflicted. He chose to sign one centre back rather than 2, and the one he chose was one who hadnt played for 9 months who had a reputation as a sick note. The main reason he chose to sign one rather than two was because that he chose to reject the advances from Swansea who wanted to take another sick note in Williams off our hands. Signing Ayala AND keeping Williams was always an incredibly risky move. 

Highlighted in bold because it's untrue. Swansea never put in a bid for him. They were able to get Ryan Bennett in on a free instead and spent their available money on Jamal Lowe. If you're going to make claims like this, back it up. 

Williams has only had the one major injury last season. He's otherwise been almost always available for us every season he's been here, and at Bristol before that. Calling him a sick note is a bit of a stretch. 

It's a pointless argument to have either way because we had 4 good CBs at the start of the season in Lenihan, Williams, Ayala and Wharton. Unless 1 of them was moved on, there was no point signing a 5th. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

At left back, part of the problem has been down purely to poor performances by both left backs, one of whom we knew was poor yet he re-signed, and one who he didnt sign until the last day of the window who he has been lucky to get as much football from as he has based on his recent injury history.

Highlighted in bold because you're stretching the truth again. He had a 1-year extension clause triggered in his contract on promotion back to the Championship.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that Bell is good enough, or that Douglas hasn't been a disappointment. LB was one of the priorities this season and Douglas was considered a good signing at the time given his reputation as one of the best LBs in the Championship. He's at least shown some improvement in the last 2 games, although I agree he's been awful defensively in too many games he's played so far.

If you're going to say we got lucky with Douglas on the injury front, then you're going to have to say we got unlucky with Ayala, Williams and Wharton all getting injured. You can't have it both ways.

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The defensive issues are far from this season and added to the fact that every team has had injury and covid issues this season, quite a few far worse than ourselves and the excuses dont really wash any more.

Which teams have had worse injury issues than us this season? The only ones that have comparable injury issues to us that are doing well are Watford and Bournemouth (both favourites pre-season with far bigger squads and budgets). The only other ones that come close are Stoke, Forest, Bristol and Preston. Forest is down in 20th, and the rest are unsurprisingly in a mid-table scrap with us.

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, Miker said:

one he chose was one who hadnt played for 9 months who had a reputation as a sick note.

Ayala was the one you wanted to sign all summer and was disappointed when the deal look like it was off didnt you?

you were massive in favour of signing Ayala in the summer

January transfer window 2020 - Page 297 - Blackburn Rovers Fans Messageboard - BRFCS.com - By Blackburn Rovers fans, for Blackburn Rovers fans.

Edited January 23, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Miker said:

Highlighted in bold because it's untrue. Swansea never put in a bid for him. They were able to get Ryan Bennett in on a free instead and spent their available money on Jamal Lowe. If you're going to make claims like this, back it up. 

Williams has only had the one major injury last season. He's otherwise been almost always available for us every season he's been here, and at Bristol before that. Calling him a sick note is a bit of a stretch. 

It's a pointless argument to have either way because we had 4 good CBs at the start of the season in Lenihan, Williams, Ayala and Wharton. Unless 1 of them was moved on, there was no point signing a 5th. 

Highlighted in bold because you're stretching the truth again. He had a 1-year extension clause triggered in his contract on promotion back to the Championship.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that Bell is good enough, or that Douglas hasn't been a disappointment. LB was one of the priorities this season and Douglas was considered a good signing at the time given his reputation as one of the best LBs in the Championship. He's at least shown some improvement in the last 2 games, although I agree he's been awful defensively in too many games he's played so far.

If you're going to say we got lucky with Douglas on the injury front, then you're going to have to say we got unlucky with Ayala, Williams and Wharton all getting injured. You can't have it both ways.

Which teams have had worse injury issues than us this season? The only ones that have comparable injury issues to us that are doing well are Watford and Bournemouth (both favourites pre-season with far bigger squads and budgets). The only other ones that come close are Stoke, Forest, Bristol and Preston. Forest is down in 20th, and the rest are unsurprisingly in a mid-table scrap with us.

Bell had a one year contract extension triggered this summer which was totally unnecessary. Why re sign someone who has repeatedly shown himself to be incompetent? Didnt W

Fitness wise, Bristol City had 7/8 usual starters out for a spell including when they beat us. Norwich had more than 11 injuries to the point that they had one senior sub. Stoke and Preston as you mentioned, the former at one point had 3 keepers, Fletcher, Mikel, Allen, Clucas and Fox out. At the peak of our absentee list, many were down to not being registered in time. Injuries and covid absentees are common this season. Ultimately Mowbray made 2 defensive signings to try and fix a defence he has repeatedly neglected in the past and neither have been successful.

[Miker]

3 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Have you listened to the podcast? He wasn't asked that question at all. He was asked about Venky's and how they aren't in the headlines any more, he then went on about how great he was and then trotted out a list of excuses as to why we aren't doing well at the moment. . And that article from Sharpe is copied from the podcast. Sharpe wasn't asking the questions. I'd listen to the podcast and then take it from there. 

There's a podcast? 

[Miker]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Bell had a one year contract extension triggered this summer which was totally unnecessary. Why re sign someone who has repeatedly shown himself to be incompetent? Didnt W

Fitness wise, Bristol City had 7/8 usual starters out for a spell including when they beat us. Norwich had more than 11 injuries to the point that they had one senior sub. Stoke and Preston as you mentioned, the former at one point had 3 keepers, Fletcher, Mikel, Allen, Clucas and Fox out. At the peak of our absentee list, many were down to not being registered in time. Injuries and covid absentees are common this season. Ultimately Mowbray made 2 defensive signings to try and fix a defence he has repeatedly neglected in the past and neither have been successful.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18518896.fitness-update-contract-clause-rovers-defender-revealed/

[roversfan99]

Just now, Miker said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18518896.fitness-update-contract-clause-rovers-defender-revealed/

Doesnt that mean that the contract had a 12 month extension in the clubs favour that we chose to trigger in the summer?

Whenever that clause was triggered to be honest, it was the wrong decision.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Miker said:

There's a podcast? 

Unsure

[AllRoverAsia]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Doesnt that mean that the contract had a 12 month extension in the clubs favour that we chose to trigger in the summer?

Whenever that clause was triggered to be honest, it was the wrong decision.

In the players favour, an auto extension when promotion occured, I think. Bells agent did well to get it for his client.

Edited January 23, 2021 by AllRoverAsia

[ben_the_beast]

There has never been a clearer example of Mowbray talking to the owners through his interviews. The excuses were pouring out, unprompted. It annoyed me. I always think Mowbray is a decent bloke. But he is treating them and us with a disrespect by trying to exaggerate the truth so much.

Hopefully it means he is feeling the pressure slightly

[roversfan99]

An example of the total lack of clarity and the confusion of Mowbrays tactics was perfectly shown v Doncaster. Firstly he went with Dack as a false 9 which has never worked. Then he made a series of subs that left us with Armstrong, Dack, Brereton, Dolan, Rothwell and Elliott all on the pitch (I think those 6) with Buckley at right back and no central midfield. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

So many holier than thou comments. A man who has worked his entire life in the second most venal industry after drug smuggling doesn’t tell the truth when he is clearly scrambling to keep his job? Shocking! The average person lies once every ten minutes of talking, and he gets interviewed almost every day of the week, so that must be ten porkies a week every week.

Mowbray is just not very good, failing against his stated target, and putting lipstick on the pig that is his journey. Nothing to see here.

[Paul Mani]

Haha - breathe lads BREATHE!!

Mowbray is going to defend his position and his job because HE believes he can turn this around. That doesn’t make him immoral or dare I say it, ‘Kean-esque’. It makes him human. Every single one of us would do the same in his position.

His comment about a section of our fans who will never be happy is TRUE. Some of that section post regularly in here for Christ sake!! Maybe it’s not because of Shearer and Sutton or winning the PL that they feel this way but I wouldn’t argue with their existence!

The key factor in my opinion here is that Mowbray is acting differently. He’s doing so because of pressure whether that’s internal, external or both and what that says to me is that unless results improve hugely then something is about to give.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Paul Mani

[Paul Mani]

15 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

And we won that match!

I think that unfortunately you are perhaps reading too much into it. I doubt the owners would even understand the random points he put across about missing players, full backs in the wrong position etc. We are kidding ourselves by implying that Venkys give a shit or have a real dedication and vested interest. Mowbray loves a natter, if he senses any "pressure" it will probably be minor criticisms from social media etc via the local journalists, of course watered down.

I also think that an inability to pay a 6 figure fee to Crewe for a full back and also cutbacks regarding the pitch to the point that it has become as bad as it has shows that they are not willing to just sign of cheques whenever asked.

You are correct that he isnt like Kean and I think anyone implying otherwise is just doing so out of pure frustration.

So IF ‘they’ aren’t listening then why did he choose to do the interview? It’s completely out of character for him, right?

I wouldn’t be too hasty with with your assertions on 6 figure fees. Firstly, we’d spent our budget and so decided to go back for more. It would appear that we were given what we asked for (shock) and my feeling is that they’re waiting for Crewe to fold and do the deal they want at the end of this month. Either way, they only really need to ask for more...just like rubbing a genies lamp so I’ve heard! 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Paul Mani

[Mattyblue]

Sounds like it’s you needs to breathe, you are trying to put normal club scenarios onto a Venky run establishment and getting very over-excited in seeing things that aren’t there.

Give TM a microphone and he defends his position and rarely takes responsibility for failings - it’s the players, it’s the pitch, its the injuries, it’s the ‘market’.

I’ve seen of heard nothing that suggests he’s under any more pressure from the owners.

[Boroblue]

Sitting down with my Sunday morning brew I broke one of my New Years resolutions which was to never read any of Mowbrays articles. Lancashire live quote “ Mowbray expects a team like boro to be in the premiership “. God give me strength in their entire history they have won one trophy. He endlessly tells us how privileged we are to be competing against the big teams in this league. Has he taken any time to look at the history of the club he manages if boro deserves to be in the premier then I’m one hundred percent sure we do.

He needs to recognise the privilege he has been given to manage the 7th most successful team decade on decade of all time and undeniably the most successful small town team.

If he feels boro are a premier team then he should be ashamed of the shambles he’s making with Rovers.

[jim mk2]

46 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

Sitting down with my Sunday morning brew I broke one of my New Years resolutions which was to never read any of Mowbrays articles. Lancashire live quote “ Mowbray expects a team like boro to be in the premiership “. God give me strength in their entire history they have won one trophy. He endlessly tells us how privileged we are to be competing against the big teams in this league. Has he taken any time to look at the history of the club he manages if boro deserves to be in the premier then I’m one hundred percent sure we do.

He needs to recognise the privilege he has been given to manage the 7th most successful team decade on decade of all time and undeniably the most successful small town team.

If he feels boro are a premier team then he should be ashamed of the shambles he’s making with Rovers.

He's a Middlesbrough man and Boro fan remember. Probably clouds his view of where Boro should be. 

It's the same old from Tony. Best not to read it.