Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Warnock is a prick and always has been.

But we aren’t discussing him as a future son in law, we are discussing him as a manager of the football club. 

Now , Neil Warnock as your son-law , there's a disturbing image 😂

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Ben Frost said:

Mowbray did quite clearly say "f*** off Neil" towards the end of the match on Sunday (at 4.53pm to be precise). It came through nice and loud on the TV. Didn't see any other Neils anywhere around at the time. 

Saw that too. I think was feeding off the Riverside. To be fair, Mowbray was a hard centre half back when that meant you were actually hard, Warnock was a physio. There is only one winner there! 

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

A fair point but I suppose the question has to be : does he go so far with his behaviour that his players lose all respect for him and effectively down tools. Based on their result last night after his behaviour at the end of our game the answer may well be yes.

That is a hell of a theory, they arent in the best of form anyway and have suffered a few injuries, but are still above us, to imply that the players have down tools is a bit of a stretch.

4 hours ago, Gav said:

He's probably the only manager, that we could potentially attract, that I'd sack Mowbray for right now.

My Middlesbrough colleagues would gladly drive him down here after last nights debacle too. 

Boro have lost 3 on the bounce at home in the league -  Birmingham, Rovers and Rotherham, they also lost at Hillsborough recently. 

The pitch forks would out if Mowbray had done the same.

They are in poor form and from the sound of it Warnock is also getting criticism or the "pitch forks" out at his expense, managers get criticised when form is poor at any club.

That being said, amidst this form and even losing to us they are still above us. Warnock took them over 6-9 months ago seemingly destined for the drop, kept them up and has already bypassed Mowbrays slow build/journey. Wobbles there are more understandable as Warnock is very much at the start of his project and thus hasnt had the same time or resources to make it his team.

[matt83]

16 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That is a hell of a theory, they arent in the best of form anyway and have suffered a few injuries, but are still above us, to imply that the players have down tools is a bit of a stretch.

They are in poor form and from the sound of it Warnock is also getting criticism or the "pitch forks" out at his expense, managers get criticised when form is poor at any club.

That being said, amidst this form and even losing to us they are still above us. Warnock took them over 6-9 months ago seemingly destined for the drop, kept them up and has already bypassed Mowbrays slow build/journey. Wobbles there are more understandable as Warnock is very much at the start of his project and thus hasnt had the same time or resources to make it his team.

That’s the point really. Warnock might be getting criticised for a mini Mowbray death spiral but in spite that they’re still 3 points ahead of rovers and 3 points off/1 place off the play offs. That’s with a team rattling around the relegation places last season and only 7 months into their “journey”. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

That is a hell of a theory, they arent in the best of form anyway and have suffered a few injuries, but are still above us, to imply that the players have down tools is a bit of a stretch.

They are in poor form and from the sound of it Warnock is also getting criticism or the "pitch forks" out at his expense, managers get criticised when form is poor at any club.

That being said, amidst this form and even losing to us they are still above us. Warnock took them over 6-9 months ago seemingly destined for the drop, kept them up and has already bypassed Mowbrays slow build/journey. Wobbles there are more understandable as Warnock is very much at the start of his project and thus hasnt had the same time or resources to make it his team.

Would you pull the plug in Warnock now? Do you think they will finish ahead of us? 

[roversfan99]

26 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Would you pull the plug in Warnock now? Do you think they will finish ahead of us? 

Pull the plug on him?

Who will finish higher is a tough one, its difficult to call. I dont think its a direct call between the 2 managers because Mowbray has had far more time and far more resources to build a team that he wants. But I cant see either getting into the play offs if im honest, the relegated trio, Brentford and Swansea seem certainties. And Boro have a slightly bigger chance at a push than us with Warnock but Reading look a good shout.

Warnock has shown what he can do with a very limited squad in a short time span though, to be where they are is impressive. Converting McNair from a bog standard to one of the best centre backs in the league has been impressive, as was signing Watmore off the scrapheap who has given them a real spark. Morsy and Bettinelli have been good signings too, and hes getting performances from Dijksteel, Bola and Tavernier that didnt seem possible before.

[TheRoversReturn]

On 28/01/2021 at 04:37, Bigdoggsteel said:

Lambert's abysmal. Bennett by far the best 

Always thought Bennett was a cracking little player for us, always giving his best, until Mowbray wrecked him, his confidence and even his reputation with the fans by shoehorning him in as a right back. It was bad enough when we were desperate, but when he started him in front of Nyambe...

Actually, the true low point was Bennett as left back. Oh, the horror, the horror! as Marlon Brando as Colonel Kurtz would have said. If he'd, you know, been a Rovers fan.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Pull the plug on him?

Who will finish higher is a tough one, its difficult to call. I dont think its a direct call between the 2 managers because Mowbray has had far more time and far more resources to build a team that he wants. But I cant see either getting into the play offs if im honest, the relegated trio, Brentford and Swansea seem certainties. And Boro have a slightly bigger chance at a push than us with Warnock but Reading look a good shout.

Warnock has shown what he can do with a very limited squad in a short time span though, to be where they are is impressive. Converting McNair from a bog standard to one of the best centre backs in the league has been impressive, as was signing Watmore off the scrapheap who has given them a real spark. Morsy and Bettinelli have been good signings too, and hes getting performances from Dijksteel, Bola and Tavernier that didnt seem possible before.

Pull the plug, as in fire him. 

Boro arguably have a much better squad than us though. I think they might even still have parachute payments. I wouldn't bet against us finishing ahead of them to be honest 

 

[roversfan99]

For me, Bennett had a good 6 month spell starting just before Mowbray came, but I felt that was because at that time we were awful, there were big question marks over the character and he really led by example and scored 3 uncharacteristically really good goals too.

I do think his character was obviously key when we went down but as a winger his performance levels were poor I felt considering that I expected him to stand out at League 1 level, I expected goals and assists. He didnt do much as a winger, he then had that one game with Smallwood v Shrewsbury in central midfield before his performances in that role waned and then he had a few more games out wide before filling in at right back when Nyambe got injured near the end of the season which of course became a common occurence as we went back up.

He had a turn of pace back in his Norwich days so I do suspect that the serious knee he suffered there has affected his career.

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Pull the plug, as in fire him. 

Boro arguably have a much better squad than us though. I think they might even still have parachute payments. I wouldn't bet against us finishing ahead of them to be honest 

 

I would totally disagree with that. The squad Warnock inherited was admittedly under a poor manager but they were in the relegation zone. We have the likes of Armstrong, Dack and Elliott so we have a real goal threat plus 12m worth of other attacking players.

Boro have a very thin squad even including the players that Warnock has either signed or got a tune out of that no one else had prior. They also dont have much goal threat which Warnock has aided by the signing of a player who had been released months ago by League 1 Sunderland. They are in their 4th season in this league, so if they do still get parachute payments it wont be much and it certainly is of no use to Warnock.

[47er]

6 hours ago, JBiz said:

He’s called Damien Johnson 😃 

I'm sure that's what Venkys think too!.

[47er]

5 hours ago, Ben Frost said:

Mowbray did quite clearly say "f*** off Neil" towards the end of the match on Sunday (at 4.53pm to be precise). It came through nice and loud on the TV. Didn't see any other Neils anywhere around at the time. 

"Fuck off, just fuck off1" I think I heard. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I would totally disagree with that. The squad Warnock inherited was admittedly under a poor manager but they were in the relegation zone. We have the likes of Armstrong, Dack and Elliott so we have a real goal threat plus 12m worth of other attacking players.

Boro have a very thin squad even including the players that Warnock has either signed or got a tune out of that no one else had prior. They also dont have much goal threat which Warnock has aided by the signing of a player who had been released months ago by League 1 Sunderland. They are in their 4th season in this league, so if they do still get parachute payments it wont be much and it certainly is of no use to Warnock.

Indeed, Mowbray has assembled a decent squad. 

[47er]

11 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Indeed, Mowbray has assembled a decent squad. 

Agree with that, although it is unbalanced. However we need someone who can get the best out of it and that's not him.

Edited January 29, 2021 by 47er

[JBiz]

@chaddyrovers

Might answer some of your questions.

For me - he sounds like someone who would make a good manager and he’s worked his way up specifically with our lads so - I wouldn’t be averse to him getting a shot.

Also;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53724502

Edited January 29, 2021 by JBiz

[JBiz]

Someone mentioned something about us being in a position to find the best upcoming candidates.

Reminded me of an article on Southampton from a few years back.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717975-inside-the-southampton-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel
 

Talks about scouting, but interestingly how Les Reed and the clubs football structure side of things doesn’t change when the manager does - ie the “journey” or club outline is all about scouting young players that have the right character.

From what I can gather - the club still implements this system, and Martyn Glover oversees the direction of football.

For me they are an example of a similar club in size / revenues - a good example of what can be achieved, even losing good players and managers regularly.

They even make mention of knowing potential management targets contract expiry - can anyone imagine our directors doing this? Nope.

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 hours ago, 47er said:

Agree with that, although it is unbalanced. However we need someone who can get the best to of it and that's not him.

Yes, we know. We were just discussing Mowbray in comparison to Warnock and his Boro team seeing as he is always named as an alternative to Moebrau. It was noted this Boro team would have had 4 years of parachute payments, so while they struggled last season, I would say they have a decent squad. Looks like it's very possible we will pass them. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

Someone mentioned something about us being in a position to find the best upcoming candidates.

Reminded me of an article on Southampton from a few years back.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717975-inside-the-southampton-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel
 

Talks about scouting, but interestingly how Les Reed and the clubs football structure side of things doesn’t change when the manager does - ie the “journey” or club outline is all about scouting young players that have the right character.

From what I can gather - the club still implements this system, and Martyn Glover oversees the direction of football.

For me they are an example of a similar club in size / revenues - a good example of what can be achieved, even losing good players and managers regularly.

They even make mention of knowing potential management targets contract expiry - can anyone imagine our directors doing this? Nope.

I'm just reading my local paper that several clubs are looking at an 18 year old Rochdale winger, Kwadwo Baah. He's only played a handful of games yet Bayern, Juventus, West Ham and Rangers are all considering a swoop for him. That's the level of detail modern clubs are capable of.

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, JBiz said:

Someone mentioned something about us being in a position to find the best upcoming candidates.

Reminded me of an article on Southampton from a few years back.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717975-inside-the-southampton-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel
 

Talks about scouting, but interestingly how Les Reed and the clubs football structure side of things doesn’t change when the manager does - ie the “journey” or club outline is all about scouting young players that have the right character.

From what I can gather - the club still implements this system, and Martyn Glover oversees the direction of football.

For me they are an example of a similar club in size / revenues - a good example of what can be achieved, even losing good players and managers regularly.

They even make mention of knowing potential management targets contract expiry - can anyone imagine our directors doing this? Nope.

All of what you say is correct.

But much easier just to believe Southampton are a far bigger and better club and leave it at that.

[JBiz]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

All of what you say is correct.

But much easier just to believe Southampton are a far bigger and better club and leave it at that.

I don’t share that level of cynicism.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, we know. We were just discussing Mowbray in comparison to Warnock and his Boro team seeing as he is always named as an alternative to Moebrau. It was noted this Boro team would have had 4 years of parachute payments, so while they struggled last season, I would say they have a decent squad. Looks like it's very possible we will pass them. 

Thanks for explaining all that to me!  😂

[Silas]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

.....as he is always named as an alternative to Moebrau.  

Moebrau, I like it!

Is he from the same manager school as Allardicio?!

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Silas said:

Moebrau, I like it!

Is he from the same manager school as Allardicio?!

Can he organise a defence though 😂

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, we know. We were just discussing Mowbray in comparison to Warnock and his Boro team seeing as he is always named as an alternative to Moebrau. It was noted this Boro team would have had 4 years of parachute payments, so while they struggled last season, I would say they have a decent squad. Looks like it's very possible we will pass them. 

Which players that Warnock inherited do you think make Boro's squad maybe better than ours?

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Which players that Warnock inherited do you think make Boro's squad maybe better than ours?

Did I say they have  a better squad? I thought I said they have a decent one. Anyways, whether he inherited or signed them is irrelevant. 

I would take Tavernier, Fry and Assombolonga for sure, but the players I would like that they have specifically are Howson, McNair and Saville, who cost £6 million, £5.5 million and £8 million respectively in transfer fees alone. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel