Tony Mowbray Discussion

[TheRoversReturn]

On 28/01/2021 at 04:37, Bigdoggsteel said:

Lambert's abysmal. Bennett by far the best 

Always thought Bennett was a cracking little player for us, always giving his best, until Mowbray wrecked him, his confidence and even his reputation with the fans by shoehorning him in as a right back. It was bad enough when we were desperate, but when he started him in front of Nyambe...

Actually, the true low point was Bennett as left back. Oh, the horror, the horror! as Marlon Brando as Colonel Kurtz would have said. If he'd, you know, been a Rovers fan.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Pull the plug on him?

Who will finish higher is a tough one, its difficult to call. I dont think its a direct call between the 2 managers because Mowbray has had far more time and far more resources to build a team that he wants. But I cant see either getting into the play offs if im honest, the relegated trio, Brentford and Swansea seem certainties. And Boro have a slightly bigger chance at a push than us with Warnock but Reading look a good shout.

Warnock has shown what he can do with a very limited squad in a short time span though, to be where they are is impressive. Converting McNair from a bog standard to one of the best centre backs in the league has been impressive, as was signing Watmore off the scrapheap who has given them a real spark. Morsy and Bettinelli have been good signings too, and hes getting performances from Dijksteel, Bola and Tavernier that didnt seem possible before.

Pull the plug, as in fire him. 

Boro arguably have a much better squad than us though. I think they might even still have parachute payments. I wouldn't bet against us finishing ahead of them to be honest 

 

[roversfan99]

For me, Bennett had a good 6 month spell starting just before Mowbray came, but I felt that was because at that time we were awful, there were big question marks over the character and he really led by example and scored 3 uncharacteristically really good goals too.

I do think his character was obviously key when we went down but as a winger his performance levels were poor I felt considering that I expected him to stand out at League 1 level, I expected goals and assists. He didnt do much as a winger, he then had that one game with Smallwood v Shrewsbury in central midfield before his performances in that role waned and then he had a few more games out wide before filling in at right back when Nyambe got injured near the end of the season which of course became a common occurence as we went back up.

He had a turn of pace back in his Norwich days so I do suspect that the serious knee he suffered there has affected his career.

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Pull the plug, as in fire him. 

Boro arguably have a much better squad than us though. I think they might even still have parachute payments. I wouldn't bet against us finishing ahead of them to be honest 

 

I would totally disagree with that. The squad Warnock inherited was admittedly under a poor manager but they were in the relegation zone. We have the likes of Armstrong, Dack and Elliott so we have a real goal threat plus 12m worth of other attacking players.

Boro have a very thin squad even including the players that Warnock has either signed or got a tune out of that no one else had prior. They also dont have much goal threat which Warnock has aided by the signing of a player who had been released months ago by League 1 Sunderland. They are in their 4th season in this league, so if they do still get parachute payments it wont be much and it certainly is of no use to Warnock.

[47er]

6 hours ago, JBiz said:

He’s called Damien Johnson 😃 

I'm sure that's what Venkys think too!.

[47er]

5 hours ago, Ben Frost said:

Mowbray did quite clearly say "f*** off Neil" towards the end of the match on Sunday (at 4.53pm to be precise). It came through nice and loud on the TV. Didn't see any other Neils anywhere around at the time. 

"Fuck off, just fuck off1" I think I heard. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I would totally disagree with that. The squad Warnock inherited was admittedly under a poor manager but they were in the relegation zone. We have the likes of Armstrong, Dack and Elliott so we have a real goal threat plus 12m worth of other attacking players.

Boro have a very thin squad even including the players that Warnock has either signed or got a tune out of that no one else had prior. They also dont have much goal threat which Warnock has aided by the signing of a player who had been released months ago by League 1 Sunderland. They are in their 4th season in this league, so if they do still get parachute payments it wont be much and it certainly is of no use to Warnock.

Indeed, Mowbray has assembled a decent squad. 

[47er]

11 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Indeed, Mowbray has assembled a decent squad. 

Agree with that, although it is unbalanced. However we need someone who can get the best out of it and that's not him.

Edited January 29, 2021 by 47er

[JBiz]

@chaddyrovers

Might answer some of your questions.

For me - he sounds like someone who would make a good manager and he’s worked his way up specifically with our lads so - I wouldn’t be averse to him getting a shot.

Also;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53724502

Edited January 29, 2021 by JBiz

[JBiz]

Someone mentioned something about us being in a position to find the best upcoming candidates.

Reminded me of an article on Southampton from a few years back.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717975-inside-the-southampton-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel
 

Talks about scouting, but interestingly how Les Reed and the clubs football structure side of things doesn’t change when the manager does - ie the “journey” or club outline is all about scouting young players that have the right character.

From what I can gather - the club still implements this system, and Martyn Glover oversees the direction of football.

For me they are an example of a similar club in size / revenues - a good example of what can be achieved, even losing good players and managers regularly.

They even make mention of knowing potential management targets contract expiry - can anyone imagine our directors doing this? Nope.

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 hours ago, 47er said:

Agree with that, although it is unbalanced. However we need someone who can get the best to of it and that's not him.

Yes, we know. We were just discussing Mowbray in comparison to Warnock and his Boro team seeing as he is always named as an alternative to Moebrau. It was noted this Boro team would have had 4 years of parachute payments, so while they struggled last season, I would say they have a decent squad. Looks like it's very possible we will pass them. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, JBiz said:

Someone mentioned something about us being in a position to find the best upcoming candidates.

Reminded me of an article on Southampton from a few years back.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717975-inside-the-southampton-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel
 

Talks about scouting, but interestingly how Les Reed and the clubs football structure side of things doesn’t change when the manager does - ie the “journey” or club outline is all about scouting young players that have the right character.

From what I can gather - the club still implements this system, and Martyn Glover oversees the direction of football.

For me they are an example of a similar club in size / revenues - a good example of what can be achieved, even losing good players and managers regularly.

They even make mention of knowing potential management targets contract expiry - can anyone imagine our directors doing this? Nope.

I'm just reading my local paper that several clubs are looking at an 18 year old Rochdale winger, Kwadwo Baah. He's only played a handful of games yet Bayern, Juventus, West Ham and Rangers are all considering a swoop for him. That's the level of detail modern clubs are capable of.

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, JBiz said:

Someone mentioned something about us being in a position to find the best upcoming candidates.

Reminded me of an article on Southampton from a few years back.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717975-inside-the-southampton-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel
 

Talks about scouting, but interestingly how Les Reed and the clubs football structure side of things doesn’t change when the manager does - ie the “journey” or club outline is all about scouting young players that have the right character.

From what I can gather - the club still implements this system, and Martyn Glover oversees the direction of football.

For me they are an example of a similar club in size / revenues - a good example of what can be achieved, even losing good players and managers regularly.

They even make mention of knowing potential management targets contract expiry - can anyone imagine our directors doing this? Nope.

All of what you say is correct.

But much easier just to believe Southampton are a far bigger and better club and leave it at that.

[JBiz]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

All of what you say is correct.

But much easier just to believe Southampton are a far bigger and better club and leave it at that.

I don’t share that level of cynicism.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, we know. We were just discussing Mowbray in comparison to Warnock and his Boro team seeing as he is always named as an alternative to Moebrau. It was noted this Boro team would have had 4 years of parachute payments, so while they struggled last season, I would say they have a decent squad. Looks like it's very possible we will pass them. 

Thanks for explaining all that to me!  😂

[Silas]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

.....as he is always named as an alternative to Moebrau.  

Moebrau, I like it!

Is he from the same manager school as Allardicio?!

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Silas said:

Moebrau, I like it!

Is he from the same manager school as Allardicio?!

Can he organise a defence though 😂

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, we know. We were just discussing Mowbray in comparison to Warnock and his Boro team seeing as he is always named as an alternative to Moebrau. It was noted this Boro team would have had 4 years of parachute payments, so while they struggled last season, I would say they have a decent squad. Looks like it's very possible we will pass them. 

Which players that Warnock inherited do you think make Boro's squad maybe better than ours?

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Which players that Warnock inherited do you think make Boro's squad maybe better than ours?

Did I say they have  a better squad? I thought I said they have a decent one. Anyways, whether he inherited or signed them is irrelevant. 

I would take Tavernier, Fry and Assombolonga for sure, but the players I would like that they have specifically are Howson, McNair and Saville, who cost £6 million, £5.5 million and £8 million respectively in transfer fees alone. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Whether he inherited or signed them is irrelevant. 

I would take Tavernier, Fry, Assombolonga for sure, but the players I would like that they have specifically are Howson, McNair, Saville, who cost £6 million, £5.5 million and £8 million respectively in transfer fees alone. 

Its not, more touching on the lack of time and resources that Warnock particularly has had to make the team his own, which makes direct comparisons between the job him and Mowbray are doing as unfair.

But as I said, I dont think that their squad is as good as ours personally, they were near the bottom fighting for their life when Warnock took over. Howson was a good player in his day but hes 33 this year, his best years came well before Warnock, and the other 2 were squad players, Saville has had a new lease of life a bit further forward and McNair has been converted from average midfielder to good centre back by Warnock.

Assombolonga certainly wouldnt get into our side over Armstrong, the goals have dried up in the last few years and Boro fans are not his biggest fan. Tavernier would be competing with Rothwell and Brereton for a place, would probably agree on Fry though.

Would you prefer Mowbray or Warnock as manager?

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not, more touching on the lack of time and resources that Warnock particularly has had to make the team his own, which makes direct comparisons between the job him and Mowbray are doing as unfair.

But as I said, I dont think that their squad is as good as ours personally, they were near the bottom fighting for their life when Warnock took over. Howson was a good player in his day but hes 33 this year, his best years came well before Warnock, and the other 2 were squad players, Saville has had a new lease of life a bit further forward and McNair has been converted from average midfielder to good centre back by Warnock.

Assombolonga certainly wouldnt get into our side over Armstrong, the goals have dried up in the last few years and Boro fans are not his biggest fan. Tavernier would be competing with Rothwell and Brereton for a place, would probably agree on Fry though.

Would you prefer Mowbray or Warnock as manager?

I think you are a bit unfair on the players mentioned there. Saville cost £8 million pounds. To suggest he has had a "new lease of life" implies he wasn't great beforehand. He was. A top signing at this level. McNair then, I always thought he was decent to be honest. Would Def take them 2. Fry as well. 

How would Tavernier be competing with Rothwell who is by and large used in cm. So he would be competing with Brereton. Not much in that. 

We have the better squad alright though, I just don't think it's reasonable to make Boro out as perennial relegation battlers. They are typically in the top 10 and have good squads at this level. 

The jury would be out a bit for me on Warnock. Been around a long time now and has only had the one promotion in the last 10 years. If Mowbray was to go, he wouldn't be my first choice. I wouldn't take him at this moment to replace Mowbray, no. 

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think you are a bit unfair on the players mentioned there. Saville cost £8 million pounds. To suggest he has had a "new lease of life" implies he wasn't great beforehand. He was. A top signing at this level. McNair then, I always thought he was decent to be honest. Would Def take them 2. Fry as well. 

How would Tavernier be competing with Rothwell who is by and large used in cm. So he would be competing with Brereton. Not much in that. 

We have the better squad alright though, I just don't think it's reasonable to make Boro out as perennial relegation battlers. They are typically in the top 10 and have good squads at this level. 

The jury would be out a bit for me on Warnock. Been around a long time now and has only had the one promotion in the last 10 years. If Mowbray was to go, he wouldn't be my first choice. I wouldn't take him at this moment to replace Mowbray, no. 

Saville is really average, I would disagree that he was a "top signing."

I dont think that they should be relegation battlers, Woodgate was a bizarre appointment and was definitely underachieving, but equally where they are now is in my opinion over achieving compared to their squad, which is also mainly a squad that isnt his.

With Tavernier, he has been playing central a lot under Warnock. Although he did play wide v us and in what I perceive to be our best 11, the biggest chance for Rothwell to get in would be wide left with Dack as the number 10.

He also did a brilliant job at Rotherham before that Cardiff promotion where he kept them up against the odds.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Saville is really average, I would disagree that he was a "top signing."

I dont think that they should be relegation battlers, Woodgate was a bizarre appointment and was definitely underachieving, but equally where they are now is in my opinion over achieving compared to their squad, which is also mainly a squad that isnt his.

With Tavernier, he has been playing central a lot under Warnock. Although he did play wide v us and in what I perceive to be our best 11, the biggest chance for Rothwell to get in would be wide left with Dack as the number 10.

He also did a brilliant job at Rotherham before that Cardiff promotion where he kept them up against the odds.

 

I liked Saville when he was with Millwall. 

He did well with Rotherham alright, but I would put Warnock with McCarthy in the "need to prove it again" category by getting into the play offs. I know Warnock did win one with Cardiff not to long ago. It's just he is pushing on, although he is pleasingly spritely for his age. You would probably say he seems the younger of the 2 between him and Mowbray 😂

[Mercer]

12 hours ago, JBiz said:

Someone mentioned something about us being in a position to find the best upcoming candidates.

Reminded me of an article on Southampton from a few years back.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717975-inside-the-southampton-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel
 

Talks about scouting, but interestingly how Les Reed and the clubs football structure side of things doesn’t change when the manager does - ie the “journey” or club outline is all about scouting young players that have the right character.

From what I can gather - the club still implements this system, and Martyn Glover oversees the direction of football.

For me they are an example of a similar club in size / revenues - a good example of what can be achieved, even losing good players and managers regularly.

They even make mention of knowing potential management targets contract expiry - can anyone imagine our directors doing this? Nope.

Think I'm right in saying that we had Martyn Glover at Rovers for over 10 years and he was Head of Player Recruitment for just over 2 years until he, IMO, unsurprisingly went to West Ham in Aug. 2011 - coincidence this was within 9 months of Venky's buying us, Jerome Anderson rocking up and Kean being appointed manager???

Only ever heard positive things said about Martyn Glover and, IMO, it's symptomatic of what's happened to Rovers since Venky's bought our club in Nov. 2010 - think quality personnel have been replaced by third raters (if you are lucky!) from top to bottom of our club and in all areas of the club.  IMO, the 'dumbing down' has been astounding and it's little wonder we are where we are.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Mercer

[Mercer]

6 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Did I say they have  a better squad? I thought I said they have a decent one. Anyways, whether he inherited or signed them is irrelevant. 

I would take Tavernier, Fry and Assombolonga for sure, but the players I would like that they have specifically are Howson, McNair and Saville, who cost £6 million, £5.5 million and £8 million respectively in transfer fees alone. 

I think Tavernier is the jewel in the M'boro crown.  Think he will develop into a top PL player.

Would think the six you mention are all out of Rovers' reach financially (transfer fees, wages etc).

Would love Fry as well.

Never mind, will console myself with a takeaway and a nice red tonight!