Tony Mowbray Discussion

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Whether he inherited or signed them is irrelevant. 

I would take Tavernier, Fry, Assombolonga for sure, but the players I would like that they have specifically are Howson, McNair, Saville, who cost £6 million, £5.5 million and £8 million respectively in transfer fees alone. 

Its not, more touching on the lack of time and resources that Warnock particularly has had to make the team his own, which makes direct comparisons between the job him and Mowbray are doing as unfair.

But as I said, I dont think that their squad is as good as ours personally, they were near the bottom fighting for their life when Warnock took over. Howson was a good player in his day but hes 33 this year, his best years came well before Warnock, and the other 2 were squad players, Saville has had a new lease of life a bit further forward and McNair has been converted from average midfielder to good centre back by Warnock.

Assombolonga certainly wouldnt get into our side over Armstrong, the goals have dried up in the last few years and Boro fans are not his biggest fan. Tavernier would be competing with Rothwell and Brereton for a place, would probably agree on Fry though.

Would you prefer Mowbray or Warnock as manager?

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not, more touching on the lack of time and resources that Warnock particularly has had to make the team his own, which makes direct comparisons between the job him and Mowbray are doing as unfair.

But as I said, I dont think that their squad is as good as ours personally, they were near the bottom fighting for their life when Warnock took over. Howson was a good player in his day but hes 33 this year, his best years came well before Warnock, and the other 2 were squad players, Saville has had a new lease of life a bit further forward and McNair has been converted from average midfielder to good centre back by Warnock.

Assombolonga certainly wouldnt get into our side over Armstrong, the goals have dried up in the last few years and Boro fans are not his biggest fan. Tavernier would be competing with Rothwell and Brereton for a place, would probably agree on Fry though.

Would you prefer Mowbray or Warnock as manager?

I think you are a bit unfair on the players mentioned there. Saville cost £8 million pounds. To suggest he has had a "new lease of life" implies he wasn't great beforehand. He was. A top signing at this level. McNair then, I always thought he was decent to be honest. Would Def take them 2. Fry as well. 

How would Tavernier be competing with Rothwell who is by and large used in cm. So he would be competing with Brereton. Not much in that. 

We have the better squad alright though, I just don't think it's reasonable to make Boro out as perennial relegation battlers. They are typically in the top 10 and have good squads at this level. 

The jury would be out a bit for me on Warnock. Been around a long time now and has only had the one promotion in the last 10 years. If Mowbray was to go, he wouldn't be my first choice. I wouldn't take him at this moment to replace Mowbray, no. 

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think you are a bit unfair on the players mentioned there. Saville cost £8 million pounds. To suggest he has had a "new lease of life" implies he wasn't great beforehand. He was. A top signing at this level. McNair then, I always thought he was decent to be honest. Would Def take them 2. Fry as well. 

How would Tavernier be competing with Rothwell who is by and large used in cm. So he would be competing with Brereton. Not much in that. 

We have the better squad alright though, I just don't think it's reasonable to make Boro out as perennial relegation battlers. They are typically in the top 10 and have good squads at this level. 

The jury would be out a bit for me on Warnock. Been around a long time now and has only had the one promotion in the last 10 years. If Mowbray was to go, he wouldn't be my first choice. I wouldn't take him at this moment to replace Mowbray, no. 

Saville is really average, I would disagree that he was a "top signing."

I dont think that they should be relegation battlers, Woodgate was a bizarre appointment and was definitely underachieving, but equally where they are now is in my opinion over achieving compared to their squad, which is also mainly a squad that isnt his.

With Tavernier, he has been playing central a lot under Warnock. Although he did play wide v us and in what I perceive to be our best 11, the biggest chance for Rothwell to get in would be wide left with Dack as the number 10.

He also did a brilliant job at Rotherham before that Cardiff promotion where he kept them up against the odds.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Saville is really average, I would disagree that he was a "top signing."

I dont think that they should be relegation battlers, Woodgate was a bizarre appointment and was definitely underachieving, but equally where they are now is in my opinion over achieving compared to their squad, which is also mainly a squad that isnt his.

With Tavernier, he has been playing central a lot under Warnock. Although he did play wide v us and in what I perceive to be our best 11, the biggest chance for Rothwell to get in would be wide left with Dack as the number 10.

He also did a brilliant job at Rotherham before that Cardiff promotion where he kept them up against the odds.

 

I liked Saville when he was with Millwall. 

He did well with Rotherham alright, but I would put Warnock with McCarthy in the "need to prove it again" category by getting into the play offs. I know Warnock did win one with Cardiff not to long ago. It's just he is pushing on, although he is pleasingly spritely for his age. You would probably say he seems the younger of the 2 between him and Mowbray 😂

[Mercer]

12 hours ago, JBiz said:

Someone mentioned something about us being in a position to find the best upcoming candidates.

Reminded me of an article on Southampton from a few years back.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717975-inside-the-southampton-black-box-informing-their-manager-carousel
 

Talks about scouting, but interestingly how Les Reed and the clubs football structure side of things doesn’t change when the manager does - ie the “journey” or club outline is all about scouting young players that have the right character.

From what I can gather - the club still implements this system, and Martyn Glover oversees the direction of football.

For me they are an example of a similar club in size / revenues - a good example of what can be achieved, even losing good players and managers regularly.

They even make mention of knowing potential management targets contract expiry - can anyone imagine our directors doing this? Nope.

Think I'm right in saying that we had Martyn Glover at Rovers for over 10 years and he was Head of Player Recruitment for just over 2 years until he, IMO, unsurprisingly went to West Ham in Aug. 2011 - coincidence this was within 9 months of Venky's buying us, Jerome Anderson rocking up and Kean being appointed manager???

Only ever heard positive things said about Martyn Glover and, IMO, it's symptomatic of what's happened to Rovers since Venky's bought our club in Nov. 2010 - think quality personnel have been replaced by third raters (if you are lucky!) from top to bottom of our club and in all areas of the club.  IMO, the 'dumbing down' has been astounding and it's little wonder we are where we are.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Mercer

[Mercer]

6 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Did I say they have  a better squad? I thought I said they have a decent one. Anyways, whether he inherited or signed them is irrelevant. 

I would take Tavernier, Fry and Assombolonga for sure, but the players I would like that they have specifically are Howson, McNair and Saville, who cost £6 million, £5.5 million and £8 million respectively in transfer fees alone. 

I think Tavernier is the jewel in the M'boro crown.  Think he will develop into a top PL player.

Would think the six you mention are all out of Rovers' reach financially (transfer fees, wages etc).

Would love Fry as well.

Never mind, will console myself with a takeaway and a nice red tonight!   

[Gav]

Kaminski has been a revelation since he joined, I thought we'd made a mistake selling Raya, but he's a much better keeper, absolute quality. 

Tony can spot a player, no doubt about that, with a £15m striker in Armstrong plucked for next to nothing and Dack probably worth similar money when back to full fitness, even Brereton has started to show why we paid decent money for him, his transfer dealings have been exceptional in the key positions.

Players coming back to full fitness too, we couldn't could we?

 

[Darrenbot]

I would love to think suddenly he's the man to surge us into the playoffs but 2 scrappy wins against average teams don't sway me,lets do something against the top 6 teams then i might start to see what others are seeing.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Kaminski has been a revelation since he joined, I thought we'd made a mistake selling Raya, but he's a much better keeper, absolute quality. 

Tony can spot a player, no doubt about that, with a £15m striker in Armstrong plucked for next to nothing and Dack probably worth similar money when back to full fitness, even Brereton has started to show why we paid decent money for him, his transfer dealings have been exceptional in the key positions.

Players coming back to full fitness too, we couldn't could we?

 

Im not sure that Brereton has come close to showing why we paid decent money for him, not the amount we paid. And he has made plenty of signings who have yet to fully convince, but 3 stand out. Kaminski has been one hell of a find, when something comes into his vicinity you expect him to deal with it convincingly and thats crucial. Dack and Armstrong are also stand out bits of business. The majority of his other permanent deals range from inconsistently frustrating to poor/underwhelming, including the 2 big ones in regards to value for money. One thing he has managed well in addition is the loan market I would say too, Adarabioyo, Reed, Elliott, Armstrong initially and hopefully Branthwaite.

[roversfan99]

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Edited January 30, 2021 by roversfan99

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Kaminski has been a revelation since he joined, I thought we'd made a mistake selling Raya, but he's a much better keeper, absolute quality. 

Tony can spot a player, no doubt about that, with a £15m striker in Armstrong plucked for next to nothing and Dack probably worth similar money when back to full fitness, even Brereton has started to show why we paid decent money for him, his transfer dealings have been exceptional in the key positions.

Players coming back to full fitness too, we couldn't could we?

 

His transfer record has been patchy to say the least. Dack and AA are the only 2 out of all his signings that could be classed as exceptional. Kaminski may well join them. For the money paid BB has been a V poor  signing. 

[Mattyblue]

BB was *starting* to show *something*... then he got that knock, unfortunately he’s regressed again since coming back. Obviously takes very little for him to lose form and confidence, which isn’t a good sign.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Mattyblue

[davulsukur]

3 hours ago, Darrenbot said:

I would love to think suddenly he's the man to surge us into the playoffs but 2 scrappy wins against average teams don't sway me,lets do something against the top 6 teams then i might start to see what others are seeing.

The 2 wins have been very welcome but we have been here before and until he actually gets us into that top 6 and at least puts up some form of a battle to stay there I'll just assume the standard win a few, lose a few cycle will continue as it has done in the past.

[booth]

3 hours ago, Darrenbot said:

I would love to think suddenly he's the man to surge us into the playoffs but 2 scrappy wins against average teams don't sway me,lets do something against the top 6 teams then i might start to see what others are seeing.

Of course the difference now is we actually have a defender in Branthwaite. Two clean sheets was the stuff of a madmans dreams a few months ago.

[O'Malley]

As the saying goes "it's the hope that kills you" and Mowbray has killed us too many times for me to have any belief that his inconsistent, schizophrenic team will finish in the top six. I have no faith in Mowbray and would like to see a change.

[Darrenbot]

2 minutes ago, booth said:

Of course the difference now is we actually have a defender in Branthwaite. Two clean sheets was the stuff of a madmans dreams a few months ago.

And with some more winnable games coming up he can solidify his partnership with Lenihan before Mad March and the run of games against good teams.

[TheRoversReturn]

Ten points from four games mean that Mowbray is going to be in place for the rest of the season (he probably would have been so anyway) and with the transfer window closing we're making do with what we had. Whatever we think about whether he's the right manager or not, it's clear that he's going nowhere soon. History tells us that another death spiral is imminent, but at least we have hope. The type that'll likely eventually kill us.  

Time him for to finally reach the playoffs. 20 games to do so.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

March fixtures look tricky but theres very else that should scare a team going for Top 6. Definitely all to play for in a league where most teams are evenly matched. It's the hope etc 

[matt83]

I still think it’s important for the next manager to have 5-10 games to look at the squad before the summer. There’s an international break last weekend in March before Easter weekend then 8 or 9 games left of the season.

So let’s say the next death spiral happens mid February could be a perfect timing to pull the trigger. Just need to hope the ceo will be doing some managerial window shopping. Don’t bet on it. 

[Mattyblue]

He’s here till the end of his contract (May 2022), at least.

I know it, surely the rest of you know it. So pro/anti TM, there’s no point getting wound up about it.

[ben_the_beast]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

March fixtures look tricky but theres very else that should scare a team going for Top 6. Definitely all to play for in a league where most teams are evenly matched. It's the hope etc 

I don't for one second think that there won't be another death spiral. However if the back 4 can stay settled and we are grinding out wins in an ugly fashion. I personally would feel more confident about our chances against sides towards the top than I did when we were blowing hot and cold scoring 5 one week and 0 the next. 

[Andy]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

He’s here till the end of his contract (May 2022), at least.

I know it, surely the rest of you know it. So pro/anti TM, there’s no point getting wound up about it.

I think this summer is the minimum term, dependant on how the season pans out.

 

We know that Venky’s will never pot him, but I think he’ll walk if we don’t finish top 6 this season.

 

And I’m very much TM in, he’s done a massive job here. Don’t lose sight of the state of the club when he joined, compared to where we are now (not just league positions).

[tomphil]

You can't keep going back to that though at some point he has to make a clear effort at pushing us on. If improving the club after taking over ( which managers are actually paid huge sums to do ) was a guarantee of a job for life Don Mackay would still be here.

Never lose sight of the fact establishing us as regular top 6 contenders is the aim not midtable wannabees costing owners 20 million per season.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Tony Mowbray: 'We'll see where the Rovers journey takes us' | Lancashire Telegraph

“At Middlesbrough we won eight away games in a row, top at Christmas for two years on the bounce, so great times, but they come to an end because you have a bad run.”

If this doesn't sum Mowbray up I don't know what does. It's like it's almost accepted that he'll have a bad run and the 'good times' will end. It's like it's just inevitable. Mowbray just doesn't have a winners mentality IMO.

[G Somerset Rover]

Well apparently Venky’s ‘understand when we have bad runs’, so he’s certainly banging the drums behind the scenes.