Tony Mowbray Discussion

[DE.]

To be honest it's all feeling a bit Souness at the moment. A manager who got us promoted when we were at a low point in our history, but ultimately began dragging us back down due to baffling team selections, playing favourites and poor transfers. Mowbray is obviously a very different person to Souness but has fallen into that same rut. There were a lot less people defending Souey at the time though! 

[JBiz]

9 minutes ago, rigger said:

I would bet most of those people you talked to where saying why is TM  picking the wrong defenders, when he publicly states he sees the problem.  

Only one (a rather famous BRFCS) lad, who sees the Nyambe/Bennett thing differently to me - However he also felt that we largely played well but lost due to some classic shithousery

Many of the comments around me yesterday seemed to lamenting our poor final third stuff.

8 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

First point I'll be honest. I feel under Williams and the old regime he'd have been gone by now as I do think he is pretty limited. If he wasn't potted in the summer - and I feel there is a strong argument he had taken us as far as he could - then absolutely you can't pot after one game. That said 3 or 4 more in this vein and given his past year or so he would be out if I were in charge. However, I will say this, whilst one game doesn't deserve the boot it speaks volumes about the type of manager TM is - ie limited. He doesn't learn fast enough to be a good manager.

I have to say that I don’t think it’s my place to suggest a manager “isn’t learning” since I’m not presented with the myriad of decisions he has to make, I (like you) only see the final “product” so to speak, so I wouldn’t be assuming TM sits in his office thinking certain players we have are better than they are.

I also think the complete overhaul job from bottom of the championship to league 1, to the playoffs and back into the prem, is an incredibly difficult task; with not many managing it!

 

8 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

 

Secondly you will get no argument from me that TM isn't the best manager we've had in a while or that any of the recent incumbents have been anything other than poor to appalling. Problem is that really shouldn't be the standard any manager is judged against. If that's the bar I'm not sure it is off the ground! If TM was compared against other proper managers however - a much more suitable barometer to judge against imo - then the comment is far from harsh. Comparatively he's ok to not that good. It's our misfortune and TM's good luck that he's following a set of managers who struggle to rise past shambolic. 

Some fair points - comparing to the jobs Coyle or Kean did, the way Berg and Lambert seemingly had their hands tied; it’s not much to be better.

I also think that highlights just out difficult it is to fix something fundamentally broken by continuous decline.

The expectations we all have this season is predominantly down to the good job done so far in my opinion.

[rigger]

Will he have learned when we are down to 8000 home fans on at Ewood?

[rigger]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Only one (a rather famous BRFCS) lad, who sees the Nyambe/Bennett thing differently to me - However he also felt that we largely played well but lost due to some classic shithousery

Many of the comments around me yesterday seemed to lamenting our poor final third stuff.

I have to say that I don’t think it’s my place to suggest a manager “isn’t learning” since I’m not presented with the myriad of decisions he has to make, I (like you) only see the final “product” so to speak, so I wouldn’t be assuming TM sits in his office thinking certain players we have are better than they are.

I also think the complete overhaul job from bottom of the championship to league 1, to the playoffs and back into the prem, is an incredibly difficult task; with not many managing it!

 

Some fair points - comparing to the jobs Coyle or Kean did, the way Berg and Lambert seemingly had their hands tied; it’s not much to be better.

I also think that highlights just out difficult it is to fix something fundamentally broken by continuous decline.

The expectations we all have this season is predominantly down to the good job done so far in my opinion.

Will he have learned when we are down to 8000 on at Ewood

[JBiz]

Just now, rigger said:

Will he have learned when we are down to 8000 home fans on at Ewood?

We play Oldham in the cup in a week, you’ll be able to see for yourself when about 5000 turn up.

[Neal]

2 hours ago, Harry The Bass said:

Each to their own, my opinion in a nutshell;

If you think it’s time to sack TM, you know nothing about football, you’ve learnt nothing from the last ten years, and you generally don’t know the difference between aspiration and expectation.

Things can change quickly - but we’ve played 1 game in a competitive league, with 45 to go.

Picking a few of last season results, or the inability to get exactly what we want in transfer windows as the main reasons, with this defeat as the “straw that broke the camels back”...

I have to say - that’s a complete knee jerk lack of awareness.

No surprise, not a single person in the club before or after, not a single person on the concourse or on the ground, or a single one of the people I talked to after in a few pubs after even mentioned the words “Mowbray out”..

Reason for that? A normal conversation  involves being immediately responsible for your words, and many things said in reaction to yesterday’s result in this thread, would’ve been laughed at as a pointless “vent”!

Some might not like it, but I don’t particularly like reading this kind of (in my view) OTT reaction to a sport that’s never been as simple as it’s perceived.

 

 

Ah, the classic "you know nothing about football" if your opinion is different to mine... The hallmark of any quality debate. I stopped reading after that. 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Rule N01,said it all along....progression not regression.

If Mowbray cannot take us forwards,improve on last season,get better out of these players then he is failing in his role at the Club.

No time for sentimentality.Reading some of the comments above it appears you are more than happy to except another season of insipid,boring mid table mediocrity.

As the late great Jack Walker would say...refer back to rule N01.

Edited August 4, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Pedro]

The worrying thing for me is, the amount of people who think Damien Johnson is the instant answer. For all of Mowbray's infuriating decision making regarding his selections, the elephant in the room does remain - the Venkys. TM clearly cares for the club, does bring a calmness and organisation to the whole club (clearly not the defence though!) and not just anyone can cope with our club. We've done the inexperienced route and it doesn't work here anymore. If we are after organisation, quick success on a shoestring, consistent results and dealing with wacky owners, then the right man is out there and available. Who knows, he'd possibly even take the job up because one of the main sets of criteria for him is a commute from home and keeping the wife happy.  They foolishly sacked him once already but if they genuinely want promotion, Big Sam's the man.

[JBiz]

Just now, Neal said:

 

Ah, the classic "you know nothing about football" if your opinion is different to mine... The hallmark of any quality debate. I stopped reading after that. 

In context - anyone who thinks the most sensible decision would be to sack a manager 90 minutes into a season, knows nothing about football.

This has nothing to do with arguments calling for his head going back months, I’m talking about that single reaction.

Even those who want a better manager surely appreciate that 1 game in, is not the time to make such decisions. 

[47er]

1 hour ago, Harry The Bass said:

Secondly - “let’s not pretend he’s a good manager” - and you call me harsh. How many of our recent managers (some of them you’d be stretching the truth using that term) have achieved anything?

Its knee jerk lack of gravitas. I’m with @Paul - new low from my perspective.

He's not an outstanding manager, I'm certain about that. Is he a good manager---I thought he was some time ago but its fading quickly now.

I'm very happy to admit that some/all of our recent managers were worse but that is all about Venkys and says nothing positive about Mowbray whatsoever.

[DE.]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

In context - anyone who thinks the most sensible decision would be to sack a manager 90 minutes into a season, knows nothing about football.

This has nothing to do with arguments calling for his head going back months, I’m talking about that single reaction.

Even those who want a better manager surely appreciate that 1 game in, is not the time to make such decisions. 

Is there anyone calling his time here into question based on this result alone though? I haven't seen that. Three months break doesn't erase the concerns from last season, especially when it's blatantly obvious none of those concerns have been addressed during that time. 

[AllRoverAsia]

 

 

 

 

Just now, Neal said:

 

Ah, the classic "you know nothing about football" if your opinion is different to mine... The hallmark of any quality debate. I stopped reading after that. 

I stopped reading at that point. As you say the classic opener to justify whatever drivel follows.

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

Is there anyone calling his time here into question based on this result alone though? I haven't seen that. Three months break doesn't erase the concerns from last season, especially when it's blatantly obvious none of those concerns have been addressed during that time. 

Plenty of examples of reactionary tosh that has no relevance to the current context of the season / team.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

5 minutes ago, DE. said:

Is there anyone calling his time here into question based on this result alone though? I haven't seen that. Three months break doesn't erase the concerns from last season, especially when it's blatantly obvious none of those concerns have been addressed during that time. 

Many just won't except that it's a continuum of the same errors of selection,bad tactics et al.

That is the main reason for this thread.... a genuine and viable concern.

Edited August 4, 2019 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[DE.]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Plenty of examples of reactionary tosh that has no relevance to the current context of the season / team.

In this thread though? I think what you're perceiving as "reactionary tosh" is pent up frustration from a poor second half of last season combined with an underwhelming, to say the least, transfer window. The third in a row under Mowbray. Concerns were brewing throughout July that we didn't appear to have a plan and TM was losing control of the situation, and despite many stating defenders would arrive, other than Tosin they haven't. Then the first game of the season rolls around and we have Bennett at right back, Mulgrew at centre back, Bell at left back, and Rothwell on the bench. Is it any wonder that frustration reached tipping point? It's far too simplistic to consider this a reaction to one game. For the vast majorty of people I think it goes way beyond that. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by DE.

[DE.]

Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Many just won't except that it's a continuum of the same errors of selection,bad tactics et al.

If people think TM did a good job last season then I can understand them thinking that wanting Mowbray out is nonsense. I get it. But there is an equally valid viewpoint within many that last season had some very concerning red flags that have not been addressed by the manager - who himself publicly agreed with the fans criticisms yet has done little to nothing in terms of action. So the idea that Mowbray has lost his way, compounded by Saturday's team selection and result feeling like it came straight from Feb-Apr last season - is a fair one as well, imo. 

I think if the transfer window shuts and we have no further defensive improvements then TM is sunk and we are in trouble. The next few days are absolutely critical. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by DE.

[RoverAbroad]

11 minutes ago, Pedro said:

  They foolishly sacked him once already but if they genuinely want promotion, Big Sam's the man.

He's in the running for any lower half Prem club that sack their manager. He's out of our league now and, even if he wasn't, he'd not go within a mile of the Venky's again.

He said of the sack at Ewood that it was all just "weird" I remember. He seemed more nonplussed and bewildered than angry. Sacked, with his contract paid up in full, while retaining a good reputation.

We'd be shopping in the bargain bin this time, just like all the other times under these jokers. All our managerial appointments have been of those not in a job (Coyle, Mowbrary), at a smaller club (Berg, Appleton) or promoted from within (Kean, Bowyer). They've not made a move for a manager that would cost them much compensation once in a decade, so it would be unlikely to happen this time. Heck, they couldn't even keep Paul Lambert when he had no other club to go to! 

Edited August 4, 2019 by RoverAbroad

[JBiz]

Just now, DE. said:

In this thread though? I think what you're perceiving as "reactionary tosh" is pent up frustration from a poor second half of last season combined with an underwhelming, to say the least, transfer window. The third in a row under Mowbray. Concerns were brewing throughout July that we didn't appear to have a plan and TM was losing control of the situation, and despite many stating defenders would arrive, other than Tosin they haven't. Then the first game of the season rolls around and we have Bennett at right back, Mulgrew at centre back, Bell at left back, and Rothwell on the bench. Is it any wonder that frustration reached tipping point? It's far too simplistic to consider this a reaction to one game. For the vast majorty of people I think it goes way beyond that. 

Yea but if you’re continuously looking for things to be upset about or expect better from, you’ll find it.

Many predicted Smallwood and Evans back, but Johnson (who looked good imo) has been ignored because it doesn’t suit the picture that people want to paint DE.

Equally - no defenders have been signed!! (except one of the brightest prospects in England on loan, who played at club that finished top 6 last season)..

You see what I’m getting at? You could very easily spin that to me searching for things that I want to agree or support - but I felt the substitutions yesterday in hindsight, were woeful!

[Pedro]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

In context - anyone who thinks the most sensible decision would be to sack a manager 90 minutes into a season, knows nothing about football.

This has nothing to do with arguments calling for his head going back months, I’m talking about that single reaction.

Even those who want a better manager surely appreciate that 1 game in, is not the time to make such decisions. 

I think the issue is that he's had 3 months to upgrade Mulgrew and identify that Bennett is not, or never will be a RB. He hasn't done this and this has been the most obvious chink in our armour. I hope he wakes up and replaces them asap because by October, many more will be on his back and it'll cost him a shot at the play offs and his job.

[Neal]

Just now, DE. said:

Is there anyone calling his time here into question based on this result alone though? I haven't seen that. Three months break doesn't erase the concerns from last season, especially when it's blatantly obvious none of those concerns have been addressed during that time. 

Don't bother. People call you out for having too simplistic a view (like Mowbray) thinking you've formed an opinion on one game, completely ignorant to the fact that most of us have formed this opinion since February. If it doesn't suit your point of view then you don't know anything. The fact is Tony Mowbray is too nice a man for people to accept that he's not a good enough manager to take us forwards. I appreciate that's a really tough thing to take for some people, we all want to to see nice people do well in football but it's a brutal and results based business. If people want to ignore the facts since February, his nonsensical ramblings in the press and his lack of failings to sort out our defence when stats are ABSOLUTELY clear, well... That's up to them. Some people will likely be happy with mediocrity in this league but I fear based on what I saw yesterday that mediocrity would be an achievement. Someone said a while back that it's gone a bit Gary Bowyer mk2 and I'd absolutely have to agree. 

[Mr. E]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

Why do people keep saying “after one game”.

It’s not about one game, it’s about another missed opportunity in the transfer window, another failure to fix the defence, another regression to the same failed formula, and experience says that he isn’t going to change his ways.

Unless Venkys throw more money at him in January, it is another wasted season. Any manager following Mowbray’s spending bonanza tenure will be a pauper.

And to think we nearly got Warnock.

Exactly. He had the entire summer to do one main thing - to fix the defence, to get new new defenders, to try anything to improve it - instead he buys God know how many midfielders and starts us the exact same back 4. No one can possibly, possibly hold out hope for Mowbray following such ineptitude/failure. The ship has sailed, he must go now.

[Mattyblue]

Nobody said Smallwood and Evans would be the two.

Johnson had been repeatedly praised by poster after poster. 

If you have a problem with perceived negativity, fine, but be accurate.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Mattyblue

[RoverAbroad]

Just now, DE. said:

If people think TM did a good job last season then I can understand them thinking that wanting Mowbray out is nonsense.

He did a good job in the first half of the season. He did a bad job in the second half of the season. Overall, a decent job all round as we stayed up relatively comfortably in the end.

However, harking back to results in 2018 isn't much use when we've been struggling for most of 2019 and he is making the same selection mistakes again and again. That's the concern. 

it's too early in the season to call for his head, but certainly after, say, ten games we should be in a position to see if he is progressing or is carrying on regressing (which we have been doing for six months now).

[Waggy76]

The signing of no proper defenders is nothing short of Neglect of Duty ...

Last February he admitted in Public the present defence is not good enough !!!

[JBiz]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Nobody said Smallwood and Evans would be the two.

Johnson had been repeatedly praised by poster after poster. 

If you have a problem with perceived negativity, fine, but be accurate.

I’m sure you’ll find one particular poster predicted Evans on the wing yesterday MB