Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mattyblue]

2 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I occasionally read the comments under Sharpe's twitter feed. People on there seem to universally want him out. Also, a few in the LT comments have turned having previously been staunch TM fans. 

End of the day it’s all either anecdotal (like my WhatsApp) or going off unreliable sources like social media.

Without fans in grounds it is really hard to gauge. Personally, I’d say he’s lost ground with the fanbase in recent days, but his position isn’t untenable, like say, Coyle’s was with the vast majority in February  2017.

[Dolly blue]

2 minutes ago, den said:

It’s quite simple really, win games and nobody will be on Mowbrays back.

People suggesting that isn’t a high priority are the problem.

I agree @den...winning games is important...but, it’s more than that for me...I will be on his back until he

1 develops our Cat 1 players ( currently they are hammered into confidence less  shells ..or sent on loan to be replaced by inferior bodies 

2 admits / or does something about the fact that he is dreadful defensively in his set up and his signings 

3 Improves the mental and physical  fitness if the squad

4 Shows that he understands and executes systems of play 

5 Shows a pride in our club by letting others worry about us instead of us being scared of an opponent’s  left back ( meaning changes to our play and personnel)

6 Plays each player to his strength 

7 Tells the truth

8 Shows the the fan base a little respect instead of condemning what we feel / say 

9 Puts his brain in gear before addressing the current issues with the press 

It’s not much to ask....I would think a standard job spec for most clubs....and he fails on every point. 
The damage is vast ...I will be in his back until we recognise our club again 

[JacknOry]

1 point from 18 and a nightmare 6 games ciming up. Could be be 1 point from 36. 

How anyone cannot be championing change at this point?

[DeeCee]

1 minute ago, JacknOry said:

1 point from 18 and a nightmare 6 games ciming up. Could be be 1 point from 36. 

How anyone cannot be championing change at this point?

We won't go down but will end up far lower down the league than we did last season. That's got to be the tipping point for the owners. Pity they can't see it now.

 

[Lucimo]

36 minutes ago, rigger said:

The next winnable game, is always, and always will be , the next game. No matter who it is against.

Thanks for highlighting that but you knew what I meant really. I regret not pointing out your obvious error earlier in the day now. Never mind though m, Dan clough did. One of the few people he won against today. 😉

[booth]

18 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

We won't go down but will end up far lower down the league than we did last season. That's got to be the tipping point for the owners. Pity they can't see it now.

 

It was for Bowyer.

[Wovers]

38 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Didn't Watford have 4 managers in one season the previous time they won promotion?

Instability clearly works at some clubs

 

How many did we have that season? Kean, bowyer, Berg, Appleton, Black.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

I’m on a WhatsApp group (well I lurk) that was set up to organise away games (sob) and I’ve got to say Ben’s experience of his Zoom group isn’t much different to what I see on that.

All ST holders from their 20s to 60+ , I wouldn’t particularly call them ‘happy clappers’ and yesterday was the first time one person even mentioned TM in a slightly negative way, and nobody else backed him up. Plenty about ‘poor player x’ or general crap performances. But does TM ever get the blame? No.

I would say he’s still a good distance from having an untenable position with a big percentage of the fanbase, it may have been different if we were in Ewood instead of these semi-detached tech platforms but his Teflon status is still just about intact.

The irony of Mowbray’s barbs aimed at fans is that he has no idea how good he has it.

Further irony is that despite Mowbray throwing air punches at fans in general is that some people just double- and triple-down in their support for him.

Blackburn Rovers existed before Mowbray and will exist afterwards (what it will look like if the current malaise is allowed to continue though I don’t know). People should not put the individual before the club when it comes to any player or manager. They are just one in a long series of mercenaries whose only desire is to make as much money as possible while extending their childhood dreams for a few more years.

The fans are the ones who will be here long after all of them. Again, how many depends on how long mediocrity and apathy are allowed to rule.

This kind of situation doesn’t seem to happen at other clubs. Not ones that haven’t collapsed in the process.

[MarkBRFC]

Think it went - ke*n, Black, Berg, Bowyer, Appleton, Bowyer in that season.

Everyone lords up Mowbray for inheriting a mess of a club from Coyle, but I'd always argue that Bowyer (and by no means am I a fan of his) inherited just a big a mess as Mowbray, maybe even bigger during/after that 12/13 season.

The only difference being that Mowbray has had the luxury of a third division promotion season to really skew opinion of him where as Bowyer (who actually achieved his first task of keeping us up) didn't. Bowyer finished 8th and 9th with 70 & 67pts respectively with much less transfer funds than Mowbray has had, and that was his first ever gig managing a professional football club.

"Best thing to happen in years" we seem to hear off some about Mowbray.

No he isn't, but he could end up being the worst if he's allowed to carry on for much longer.

Edited February 28, 2021 by MarkBRFC

[Mattyblue]

We still hear a lot about Ke*n, Coyle, Lambert. The forgotten man is Gaz.

[MarkBRFC]

Thats because it doesn't suit the Mowbray is the best thing since sliced bread narrative.

[roverandout]

I said a couple of years ago. There are a match-day fans and proper hard-core fans. Match-day fans just want to attend a game on a Saturday go to the pub with their mates after. Something to do on a Saturday.  They don't care what goes on behind the scenes.  Just as long as they can sing 'rovers rovers ra ra ra'. Hard-core fans care about the club way past what happens on the pitch. Ie the protests, which I was a part of. Worrying about the academy.  Mowbray's ineptitude etc. Alot of those backing Mowbray blindly are match-day fans.

[Stuart]

26 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Think it went - ke*n, Black, Berg, Bowyer, Appleton, Bowyer in that season.

Everyone lords up Mowbray for inheriting a mess of a club from Coyle, but I'd always argue that Bowyer (and by no means am I a fan of his) inherited just a big a mess as Mowbray, maybe even bigger during/after that 12/13 season.

The only difference being that Mowbray has had the luxury of a third division promotion season to really skew opinion of him where as Bowyer (who actually achieved his first task of keeping us up) didn't. Bowyer finished 8th and 9th with 70 & 67pts respectively with much less transfer funds than Mowbray has had, and that was his first ever gig managing a professional football club.

"Best thing to happen in years" we seem to hear off some about Mowbray.

No he isn't, but he could end up being the worst if he's allowed to carry on for much longer.

What is Bowyer’s legacy? There isn’t one.

St Gary gets far more credit than he deserves. The boardroom squabbles that blighted and undermined Berg and Appleton had vanished. Gary was credited with bringing ‘stability’ when in reality he benefited from it. Until the latter stages of his time he was able to recruit and keep his best players. He had Jordan Rhodes handed to him on a platter and those goals kept us up. If anything Bowyer’s lack of nouse cost us our best and last chance of the play-offs. He couldn’t even see what a player he had in Josh King (and to a lesser extent Alan Judge - twice!).

Lambert brought in Bennett and Graham and changed the ethos at the club from one of pals and an open house to one of professionalism - focusing on fitness. He could have done a lot more had the Rhodes money been given to him to spend. Rightly his instincts which led to a contract walk away clause proved prescient and off he went - to both his and our detriment.

Coyle was a complete failure - despite the “give him a chance FFS” brigade - so least said the better but even he brought in Charlie Mulgrew - our L1 saviour.

Mowbray signed Dack after he fell out with Gillingham following a court case he was involved in and ultimately sealed our L1 squad. He then stuck with that same L1 squad for the best part of 18 months seemingly believing in loyalty above ability. His legacy with be as bad as Bowyer’s as the next manager is likely to need a complete overhaul. Much like Mowbray himself will if he survives yet another Summer. Does anyone think he can rebuild this team with another window? I don’t.

[neophox]

Bristol C sacked their manager after a few losses ... then appointed Pearson .. two straight wins, one of them against Swansea away...says it all....bad team but plays better with a better manager...

[neophox]

Mowbrays had 4 years. Not many managers manage to stay so long... time for something new.

[MarkBRFC]

24 minutes ago, Stuart said:

What is Bowyer’s legacy? There isn’t one.

St Gary gets far more credit than he deserves. The boardroom squabbles that blighted and undermined Berg and Appleton had vanished. Gary was credited with bringing ‘stability’ when in reality he benefited from it. Until the latter stages of his time he was able to recruit and keep his best players. He had Jordan Rhodes handed to him on a platter and those goals kept us up. If anything Bowyer’s lack of nouse cost us our best and last chance of the play-offs. He couldn’t even see what a player he had in Josh King (and to a lesser extent Alan Judge - twice!).

Lambert brought in Bennett and Graham and changed the ethos at the club from one of pals and an open house to one of professionalism - focusing on fitness. He could have done a lot more had the Rhodes money been given to him to spend. Rightly his instincts which led to a contract walk away clause proved prescient and off he went - to both his and our detriment.

Coyle was a complete failure - despite the “give him a chance FFS” brigade - so least said the better but even he brought in Charlie Mulgrew - our L1 saviour.

Mowbray signed Dack after he fell out with Gillingham following a court case he was involved in and ultimately sealed our L1 squad. He then stuck with that same L1 squad for the best part of 18 months seemingly believing in loyalty above ability. His legacy with be as bad as Bowyer’s as the next manager is likely to need a complete overhaul. Much like Mowbray himself will if he survives yet another Summer. Does anyone think he can rebuild this team with another window? I don’t.

Completey agree.

My point was that for everyone who seems to think Mowbray is or has been the clubs saviour, he hasn't even achieved what Bowyer has yet.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

What is Bowyer’s legacy? There isn’t one.

St Gary gets far more credit than he deserves. The boardroom squabbles that blighted and undermined Berg and Appleton had vanished. Gary was credited with bringing ‘stability’ when in reality he benefited from it. Until the latter stages of his time he was able to recruit and keep his best players. He had Jordan Rhodes handed to him on a platter and those goals kept us up. If anything Bowyer’s lack of nouse cost us our best and last chance of the play-offs. He couldn’t even see what a player he had in Josh King (and to a lesser extent Alan Judge - twice!).

Lambert brought in Bennett and Graham and changed the ethos at the club from one of pals and an open house to one of professionalism - focusing on fitness. He could have done a lot more had the Rhodes money been given to him to spend. Rightly his instincts which led to a contract walk away clause proved prescient and off he went - to both his and our detriment.

Coyle was a complete failure - despite the “give him a chance FFS” brigade - so least said the better but even he brought in Charlie Mulgrew - our L1 saviour.

Mowbray signed Dack after he fell out with Gillingham following a court case he was involved in and ultimately sealed our L1 squad. He then stuck with that same L1 squad for the best part of 18 months seemingly believing in loyalty above ability. His legacy with be as bad as Bowyer’s as the next manager is likely to need a complete overhaul. Much like Mowbray himself will if he survives yet another Summer. Does anyone think he can rebuild this team with another window? I don’t.

'St' Gary did a fantastic job, following on from the disasters that were Kean, Black, Berg and Appleton. He perhaps wasn't the man long-term, but he's probably the best manager to walk through the door since Allardyce. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, neophox said:

Bristol C sacked their manager after a few losses ... then appointed Pearson .. two straight wins, one of them against Swansea away...says it all....bad team but plays better with a better manager...

If we'd have brought Pearson in a week or two back I'd be prepared to bet we'd get something at both Reading and Millwall.  At the least he'd set us up not to lose.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[rigger]

3 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

er,in our present state i don`t see a game away at reading as winnable,unless some biblical miracle occurs and we start to be organised and defensively sound

I never said we would win at at Reading. But it is the next game that we could win. That is a fact not an opinion.

[Stuart]

1 minute ago, Exiled_Rover said:

'St' Gary did a fantastic job, following on from the disasters that were Kean, Black, Berg and Appleton. He perhaps wasn't the man long-term, but he's probably the best manager to walk through the door since Allardyce. 

Not a chance. He didn’t do a fantastic job at all. I can only assume you didn’t read my post.

Gary was the beneficiary not the benefactor.

[Exiled_Rover]

10 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Not a chance. He didn’t do a fantastic job at all. I can only assume you didn’t read my post.

Gary was the beneficiary not the benefactor.

Agree to disagree.

We've had a long string of bad managers (including Lambert). Bowyer at least made a healthy profit on transfers whilst keeping the club in the Championship. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

21 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Not a chance. He didn’t do a fantastic job at all. I can only assume you didn’t read my post.

Gary was the beneficiary not the benefactor.

He saved the team from certain relegation then finished in the top 10 twice. He signed some excellent players on a limited budget. What was he the beneficiary of?

[JHRover]

I think the similarities between Bowyer and Mowbray are significant. Both immediately in the aftermath of horrible seasons got on a plane to India, came back after 'positive' talks with new contracts and backing to do some decent transfer business.

Both knew the way to get things done was to go off to India every 12 months and tell the Desai's what they want to hear.

Neither should really have got the job as manager of this club given their CVs. Bowyer had at least earned a crack following his impressive caretaker spell but Mowbray was an outsider. Nevertheless he earned a shot at League One despite relegation.

Both had to assume an all powerful role of managing the whole club with little to no power in the board of directors. Bowyer had the Shaw and Myers presence whereas Mowbray was able to bring his mate Waggott in but none suggest that there is any real power, presence or capability at executive level. I think Bowyer was more powerful than Shaw or Myers and Mowbray is more powerful than Waggott.

Both made 2-3 outstanding signings - in Bowyer's case we got Cairney, Gestede and Conway on the very cheap and also still had 2-3 excellent players here from the parachute money days. In Mowbray's case he's delivered Dack and Armstrong and a few others (mainly loans) who are excellent players on their day.

 Both, interestingly, didn't treat the defence with much interest or priority. In Bowyer's case the need was probably less with Hanley and Duffy the established decent partnership.

Sitting here now I enjoyed Bowyer's time more than I have enjoyed the Mowbray Championship period. Many are skewed by the promotion from League One season. I certainly felt we were harder to beat and while Bowyer was negative and too accepting of draws on plenty of occasions, we didn't surrender to defeats or capitulate like we do with Mowbray.

Both reached the end of their shelf lives - Bowyer after 2 full seasons and Mowbray after 2 full Championship seasons yet both were left in place too long. In Bowyer's case it was obvious his days were numbered from summer 15 when they refused to meet him and flogged Cairney and Gestede behind his back yet it took until November for the axe to fall and for Lambert to be appointed, which was too late to do anything that season.

Mowbray should have gone last summer (probably before) yet they plod on because he's a nice bloke and here we are now with things unravelling.

History is repeating itself and the owners still don't get it. We're nearly 6 years on and it's the same old story.

 

[Stuart]

 

3 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

He saved the team from certain relegation then finished in the top 10 twice. He signed some excellent players on a limited budget. What was he the beneficiary of?

His top 10 finishes were with a squad that he had no clue how to get the best out of. That squad under achieved, and the similarities with Mowbray are stark.

As for your question, are you looking for something more sophisticated than money?

19 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Agree to disagree.

We've had a long string of bad managers (including Lambert). Bowyer at least made a healthy profit on transfers whilst keeping the club in the Championship. 

Lambert wasn’t a bad manager for Rovers. But I expect we’ll have to agree to disagree there too.

Glen Mullan deserves more credit for our success at that time than Bowyer...

[m1st]

I'd been shouting for Pearson for weeks now - long before Bristol City recruited him.

Now that he's unavailable, how about the latest Rovers' Old Boy to actually win - scuse me for splitting an infinitive! - win something?

And with apologies to anyone north of Hadrian's Wall: it may only be Scotland; it may only be their League Cup; but could we do worse than Callum Davidson? I can't remember Alec Neil actually winning that much - I may have forgotten; I've been on a cheaper Red tonight than I'm sure Mercer would ever consume! - before he rocked up at Deepdale.