Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mattyblue]

They obviously did get into bed with the wrong people, but the buck stops with them.

The ‘badly advised’ line when used to absolve those wreckers of any responsibility is what riles me. We’ve seen the club regress decades due to their idiocy.

[JBiz]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

They obviously did get into bed with the wrong people, but the buck stops with them.

The ‘badly advised’ line when used to absolve those wreckers of any responsibility is what riles me. We’ve seen the club regress decades due to their idiocy.

It’s never used to absolve their part - I’ve only ever heard it in the context that the bad advice was a symptom of their arrogance and negligence.

Really bloody stumps me to see people driving wedges between themselves and other fans, purely down the terminology used to describe their “fuck up”

[Stuart]

It’s been used as a way to absolve them since Kean left.

They didn’t even publicly sack Kean. That was the opportunity to play the badly advised line.

So someone advised them to keep Steve Kean as manager? Surely they should have been able to see through this ‘advice’? But no, they remained committed and had to let some staff go.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/may/10/blackburn-not-for-sale-venkys

Can’t believe all of this has become board discussion again on a whim. Division created by those who want fans to unite behind Venkys. Sleeping dogs should be left sleeping.

[Mattyblue]

22 minutes ago, Harry The Bass said:

It’s never used to absolve their part - I’ve only ever heard it in the context that the bad advice was a symptom of their arrogance and negligence.

Really bloody stumps me to see people driving wedges between themselves and other fans, purely down the terminology used to describe their “fuck up”

Not saying you do, from memory you’ve always put our woes down to the owners, not individual managers etc.

However, it certainly is used to absolve them, I hear again and again at games, online etc telling me that they ‘were badly advised at the start’ but ‘we should be thankful to them’, ‘they put loads of money in’, ‘look at Bolton’.

Many of our fans seem happy enough to be plodding around in the lower leagues for evermore, indeed it’s ‘our natural level’, so maybe I should just ‘get behind ‘em’.

[K-Hod]

They were badly advised indeed.

But they own the club, so it's their fault.

[DE.]

Venky's chose to go with their own "advisers" - whomever they were and still are - over the likes of John Williams, Tom Finn, Paul Hunt and countless other experienced people (including our fans) who tried to warn them that they were driving us off a cliff. Their arrogance and stupidity has destroyed the club and "badly advised" doesn't even come close to being a good enough reason to forgive and forget what they've done. As recently as 2016 they took what was essentially a done deal for Warnock and intervened to replace with with former SEM client Owen Coyle, effectively relegating us before the season had even started. 

[Stuart]

Just now, DE. said:

Venky's chose to go with their own "advisers" - whomever they were and still are - over the likes of John Williams, Tom Finn, Paul Hunt and countless other experienced people (including our fans) who tried to warn them that they were driving us off a cliff. Their arrogance and stupidity has destroyed the club and "badly advised" doesn't even come close to being a good enough reason to forgive and forget what they've done. As recently as 2016 they took what was essentially a done deal for Warnock and intervened to replace with with former SEM client Owen Coyle, effectively relegating us before the season had even started. 

Good points.

Venkys were also well advised by Williams and even the self-serving Paul Hunt. They chose who to listen to.

Ignoring Williams was particularly unforgivable.

[Adam C]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

It’s been used as a way to absolve them since Kean left.

They didn’t even publicly sack Kean. That was the opportunity to play the badly advised line.

So someone advised them to keep Steve Kean as manager? Surely they should have been able to see through this ‘advice’? But no, they remained committed and had to let some staff go.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/may/10/blackburn-not-for-sale-venkys

Can’t believe all of this has become board discussion again on a whim. Division created by those who want fans to unite behind Venkys. Sleeping dogs should be left sleeping.

I agree, the circular argument about Venkys ownership and their culpability is better left dormant while we are in a more stable state. It doesn’t do any good to rake up what can be a divisive and fiery topic when nobody has a conclusive answer. On the other hand we’re on a message board and people like to vent and prove themselves right, myself included!

I have a theory about people who forgive vs those who can’t let go. Not residing in Blackburn means I can be more detached about the Venkys question, and I think I’ve moved on and forgiven them. However, I don’t have to experience the shame and anger at the decline of my hometown club, to witness stands closing in the stadium, to endure the taunts of local rivals, and to see a proud legacy come undone. I understand why some folk are more bitter about proceedings even if I don’t share the sentiment.

 

[arbitro]

31 minutes ago, DE. said:

Venky's chose to go with their own "advisers" - whomever they were and still are - over the likes of John Williams, Tom Finn, Paul Hunt and countless other experienced people (including our fans) who tried to warn them that they were driving us off a cliff. Their arrogance and stupidity has destroyed the club and "badly advised" doesn't even come close to being a good enough reason to forgive and forget what they've done. As recently as 2016 they took what was essentially a done deal for Warnock and intervened to replace with with former SEM client Owen Coyle, effectively relegating us before the season had even started. 

Good post and the reasons why I and others despise them. If they had bought another Pharmaceutical business that was successful I'm sure they would have left the current incumbents in place to carry on the good work. Within months our highly regarded management team had been dismantled in such a cold blooded way. In nine years they (and they alone) have increased our debt by £150m which will only increase raising fears we could be another Bury or Bolton.

And to this day their arrogance still pervades.

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Venky's chose to go with their own "advisers" - whomever they were and still are - over the likes of John Williams, Tom Finn, Paul Hunt and countless other experienced people (including our fans) who tried to warn them that they were driving us off a cliff. Their arrogance and stupidity has destroyed the club and "badly advised" doesn't even come close to being a good enough reason to forgive and forget what they've done. As recently as 2016 they took what was essentially a done deal for Warnock and intervened to replace with with former SEM client Owen Coyle, effectively relegating us before the season had even started. 

Promotion at the first ask swept all that quickly under the carpet otherwise there'd have been another spectacular meltdown at some point or people would just have given up, one thing or the other.

Just goes to show that whilst we are stable its got a lid on it but as a few better placed people have said we are only ever a couple of weeks away from something crazy whilst they remain here yet we are still light years away from really kicking on.

Fans should look to the future but in our case it's always very wise to keep an eye on the past there are certain patterns you can almost predict and it's usually little things that kick it off.

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 hours ago, Harry The Bass said:

 

I don’t see why it’s so difficult to think of it as a rich family who knew nothing about football, easily ripped off by “fixers”.

Yet plenty of Blackburn folk find that “badly advised” upsetting weirdly.

Oh, and regardless of what happens MC, will be behind the lads come rain or shine, and certainly won’t be using the term “boycott” because I simply don’t enjoy a lesser league..! 

Because "badly advised" is a code for Venky denial, Stockholm syndrome and refusal to locate responsibility in owners, who refused to listen to the appeals of honest Rovers fans...and, of course, selective amnesia.

Get behind our innocent owners FFS!

[JBiz]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

Because "badly advised" is a code for Venky denial, Stockholm syndrome and refusal to locate responsibility in owners, who refused to listen to the appeals of honest Rovers fans...and, of course, selective amnesia.

Get behind our innocent owners FFS!

It’s only code for that if you want to take the simple fact “they had bad advice” and turn it into a reason for an argument.

The last sentence is just perpetuating that phrase as a WUM tactic, since nobody is behind the ownership, even if some (like myself) who also consider some aspects (like continued funding of youth/facilities) aren’t all bad.

 

[JBiz]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Not saying you do, from memory you’ve always put our woes down to the owners, not individual managers etc.

However, it certainly is used to absolve them, I hear again and again at games, online etc telling me that they ‘were badly advised at the start’ but ‘we should be thankful to them’, ‘they put loads of money in’, ‘look at Bolton’.

Many of our fans seem happy enough to be plodding around in the lower leagues for evermore, indeed it’s ‘our natural level’, so maybe I should just ‘get behind ‘em’.

Thing is - three of those things I could agree with,

1. They did have poor advice, as seen from attempting to take their own partners to court.

2. They’ve put millions into us. Whether that’s their fault or not is another point, but I was convinced league 1 would mean facilities binned off.

3. Indeed look at Bolton. For all our owners idiocy, they’ve never been in Bassini/Anderson mould. 

None of that tallies with your other point, people saying we should be “thankful”.. I don’t think that at all.

If anything, they should be thankful for those who’ve stuck with it - you as a big part of the attendance debate on the forum, will find no argument from me that says they/ could/should be doing more to re-engage the fans.

Finally -  Using continued attendance as a “happy enough” or “getting behind the lads” is as pointless as suggesting all non-attendance in the championship/lower league is down to level of opponent and CBA.

Myriad of difficulties created by THE RAOS. I’ll personally never forget that either.

[arbitro]

They were told by the then board of directors about the 'advisors' they were using and then promptly got rid of Messrs Williams and Finn. Then Paul Hunt wrote to them in a similar vein. He was gone shortly after too. Meanwhile Agnew, Anderson, Singh, Shaw and Kean were having a field day ruining our club before their very eyes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2272514/Nick-Harris-Why-wont-FA-tell-whats-going-Blackburn.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/may/08/blackburn-rovers-letter-venkys

Badly advised my arse. 

Arrogant beyond belief.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

It’s only code for that if you want to take the simple fact “they had bad advice” and turn it into a reason for an argument.

The last sentence is just perpetuating that phrase as a WUM tactic, since nobody is behind the ownership, even if some (like myself) who also consider some aspects (like continued funding of youth/facilities) aren’t all bad.

 

Re last phrase, point taken I was trying to be humorous!..No success like failure etc

You are quite right, though. There are a number of such phrases to characterise/dismiss each side of the divide. Yes, I should have resisted it.

[JBiz]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

Re last phrase, point taken I was trying to be humorous!..No success like failure etc

You are quite right, though. There are a number of such phrases to characterise/dismiss each side of the divide. Yes, I should have resisted it.

Don’t worry no offence taken, there are definitely some fans who’d say they “support” the owners but I’d be guessing it’s mainly just devils advocate stuff.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

They were told by the then board of directors about the 'advisors' they were using and then promptly got rid of Messrs Williams and Finn. Then Paul Hunt wrote to them in a similar vein. He was gone shortly after too. Meanwhile Agnew, Anderson, Singh, Shaw and Kean were having a field day ruining our club before their very eyes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2272514/Nick-Harris-Why-wont-FA-tell-whats-going-Blackburn.html

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/may/08/blackburn-rovers-letter-venkys

Badly advised my arse. 

Arrogant beyond belief.

Absolutely! My concern is around the current, selective amnesia and the implications of the (blind) fresh start thing..

[47er]

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion based on the possibility that I might explode!

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion based on the possibility that I might explode!

This wheel's on fire...

[USABlue]

On 10/09/2019 at 03:32, The Hypnotic said:

I agree, the circular argument about Venkys ownership and their culpability is better left dormant while we are in a more stable state. It doesn’t do any good to rake up what can be a divisive and fiery topic when nobody has a conclusive answer. On the other hand we’re on a message board and people like to vent and prove themselves right, myself included!

I have a theory about people who forgive vs those who can’t let go. Not residing in Blackburn means I can be more detached about the Venkys question, and I think I’ve moved on and forgiven them. However, I don’t have to experience the shame and anger at the decline of my hometown club, to witness stands closing in the stadium, to endure the taunts of local rivals, and to see a proud legacy come undone. I understand why some folk are more bitter about proceedings even if I don’t share the sentiment.

 

Ooooooh, now you've done it.  Bigger Heuvos than me for sure.

[47er]

On 11/09/2019 at 01:35, Leonard Venkhater said:

This wheel's on fire...

Met her once-----Juie Driscoll that is!  Very nice lady.

[Leonard Venkhater]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

Met her once-----Juie Driscoll that is!  Very nice lady.

She speaks very highly of you. Anyway, we both know it's a Bob song really...

[Exiled in Toronto]

After all the airplay 17 pts. from 19 games got, 26 from 14 is his current run rate, promotion form if maintained.

[Paul Mani]

Can’t believe this thread is still a thing tbh. How on earth could someone justify sacking the manager? 

[DE.]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Can’t believe this thread is still a thing tbh. How on earth could someone justify sacking the manager? 

It's just a thread to discuss TM in general at this point. Should probably be renamed something like "Tony Mowbray discussion", but it's already been renamed once...