Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Boroblue]

Coyle was parachuted into the job. I don’t hate Coyle because I thought he tried to make a fist of it without any financial backing.

Keans is unspeakable awful.

Mowbray is heading into the same waters. If you listen to him he’s is starting to sound the same hoewever Kean never made any pretence of honour. 

Neither of them could set up a team both believe winning is irrelevant. Further both talk has though they have a dream. Our owners are a nightmare. You couldn’t endlessly get things this wrong. Maybe their selection criteria is to find perennial underachievers who are narcissistic.

Its is just a nightmare. I can’t stand to listen or look at him also his football is shit. 

Will I turn up. Yes because I love Rovers and it’s the thick and thin thing. I’d like a bit of the thick soon

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Boroblue said:

And tone fair Coyle was ok. Just in the wrong place with a fan base that hated him. No money, no support. Not like Mowbray. 

Coyle was a lying bastard that relegated the club to division 3, are you being serious? 

Did you watch us when Coyle was manager?

He bought pies and cakes for the first team every Friday FFS.

Useless.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Gav

[Admiral Nelsen]

52 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

And tone fair Coyle was ok. Just in the wrong place with a fan base that hated him. No money, no support. Not like Mowbray. 

 

I accept that he was on to a loser to begin with, and some of his signings were actually pretty good considering the lack of cash (some decent loans anyway).

 

Even taking that into account though, he was properly awful. The way that Mowbray has tried to play this year has been a mistake, and he should have been more flexible when it wasn't working, but at least there has been some thought which has gone into how we should play. With Coyle, it literally seemed as though he just stuck eleven players on the pitch and told them to get on with it. 

[tina]

Who hasn't been a "lying bastard" in the V's tyranny? The Venkys? I'm confused.

Edited May 10, 2021 by tina

[Paul Mellelieu]

I wonder if anyone thinks Coyle would have got us out of L2, or indeed Kean for that matter.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Coyle was an opportunistic twat just like the twat with the mythical dog. Another who made money whilst the sun shone. Consigned to our terrible history of the last eleven years

[Blue blood]

11 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

I wonder if anyone thinks Coyle would have got us out of L2, or indeed Kean for that matter.

I'm no Coyle fan - he was useless. But he never took pops at the entitled fans or tired to sell off the training ground. Both of which make him less odious than TM. 

Also before we build up TM as a managerial giant I do wonder if Coyle would have done much worse than TM if he had had the backing TM had. 

Compare this seasons performance to Coyle's and I would say it is probably worse. 3 years into the position, £15 million net transfer spend, no enforced sales, the advantage of Covid overall and Covid and a points deduction helping us Vs relegation rivals and we are what, 3 points better off. That doesn't strike me as a better manager to me. 

Again not that Coyle is any good. He gave us Williams and Byrne for starters and let Duffy go awol. But if we are doing a like for like comparison I wouldn't be too confident on TM looking good. 

[Mike E]

Coyle deffo tried to pull wool over our eyes somewhat re: SEM, but I never felt he tried to actively and deliberately disrespect the club in the same way Mowbray has.

'Shrearer and Sutton aren't here anymore' ffs.

Coyle was just a crap manager and a liar.

Mowbray is a crap manager, a liar, and willing to put us down as a club.

In fact the only managers post-Sam to respect Rovers to any real degree are Bowyer and Berg.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Mike E

[Boroblue]

28 minutes ago, Gav said:

Coyle was a lying bastard that relegated the club to division 3, are you being serious? 

Did you watch us when Coyle was manager?

He bought pies and cakes for the first team every Friday FFS.

Useless.

Coyle should never have been appointed and to be frank this is an historical debate. I will say this ,the fella in charges is  now is worse. How much money. How many time does he run us down. I’m absolutely sick of him telling me Rovers have to accept where we are and we can’t compete.Who does he think he is and do I  prefer Coyle I don’t care.Coyle was just useless but no where  near as bad has the fella in charge. This one is far worse.

PS Fuck cakes 

The fella in charge had 15 games to save us In 2017 not 2 . The big bag of shite. February 2017 he was appointed the same length of time he hasn’t managed to win a game now. 

kean shit

coyle shit 

mowbray shit

What appalls me the most with him is not losing but running Rovers down. It annoys me no end. Quote :Boro are a premiership outfit but we have to accept what we are. 

Well you big fat boro tow rag you are in charge of the most successful small town team of all time. The list of our achievements stand tall by any measure. He just needs to go. 

My blood pressure has now reached pop.

 

[Admiral Nelsen]

2 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I'm no Coyle fan - he was useless. But he never took pops at the entitled fans or tired to sell off the training ground. Both of which make him less odious than TM. 

Also before we build up TM as a managerial giant I do wonder if Coyle would have done much worse than TM if he had had the backing TM had. 

Compare this seasons performance to Coyle's and I would say it is probably worse. 3 years into the position, £15 million net transfer spend, no enforced sales, the advantage of Covid overall and Covid and a points deduction helping us Vs relegation rivals and we are what, 3 points better off. That doesn't strike me as a better manager to me. 

Again not that Coyle is any good. He gave us Williams and Byrne for starters and let Duffy go awol. But if we are doing a like for like comparison I wouldn't be too confident on TM looking good. 

 

I'm not sure why I'm choosing this hill to die on, but we do have a like for like comparison when they had half a season each with the same squad!

 

I'm not even suggesting Mowbray should be kept on - on this season's evidence we've badly lost our way - but Coyle's tenure was horrific. 

[Boroblue]

This fella and he’s mates tried to flog our under 23 academy. Worse than coyle not just a bit by far.0

[Dreams of 1995]

I wouldn’t put Mowbray in the same league as Kean personally although I totally understand the lack of trust and respect after Brockhallgate. 

I apportion more of the blame to Waggott if I am honest. A real nasty piece of work. Something about him reminds me of a second hand car salesman.

Mowbray won’t be remembered fondly that’s for sure. He had a lot of good credit banked but that is just about running dry now. 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Dreams of 1995

[DeeCee]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I wouldn’t put Mowbray in the same league as Kean personally although I totally understand the lack of trust and respect after Brockhallgate. 

I apportion more of the blame to Waggott if I am honest. A real nasty piece of work. Something about him reminds me of a second hand car salesman.

Mowbray won’t be remembered fondly that’s for sure. He had a lot of good credit banked but that is just about running dry now. 

 

It ran dry 12 months ago, Teflon Tony and Slippery Steve, pair of con men 😞

[tomphil]

I doubt we'd ever have gone down under Mowbray or even Coyle had the club - whoever that actually is - not sold Cairney / Hanley and even Duffy.

That was the crux of it along with Rudy and Rhodes of course but they were inevitable. Sadly though despite them not being perfect you just cannot replace two 24 year old international defenders with a young converted mid, an injury prone loan, a 36 yr old and a 37 yr old whose legs went 4 years before.

That's what Coyle did although Mulgrew came in as well he struggled to adjust until we dropped into lge 1.

Coyle was only here 5 mins and did enough damage to last a long time and talked a decades worth of shit.  Mowbray to his credit cleared that damage up and often talked sense in his own humble way.

However for the past 12 months at least he's been firmly in self preservation mode and has veered from outright nonsense to weekly contradictions. Basically he's been in say anything mode for a long time now. Anyone who can't see that doesn't want to.

Coyle was an outright con job whose somehow winged his way through the last decade. I think there is more substance to Mowbray he's steady to Coyles erratic but he breached his capability ceiling here 2 years ago. It's also become clear he's a very crafty operator off the pitch in terms of making his words cover his failings.

Once you've been sussed you've been sussed it's very rare that gets turned around. That's another reason he needs to be gone before crowds come back.

[Boroblue]

9 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

I wonder if anyone thinks Coyle would have got us out of L2, or indeed Kean for that matter.

I’ve said this before and I still believe it. Mowbray didn’t get us out of league 2 the senior professionals at the club did when they took over after the disaster at Oldham. Mowbray even said it himself and they were handsomely rewarded for it with big long contracts. The idea that we are stable under Mowbray is nonsense and unless someone at the club acts I fear the wheels are about to come off.

[Blue blood]

10 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

I'm not sure why I'm choosing this hill to die on, but we do have a like for like comparison when they had half a season each with the same squad!

 

I'm not even suggesting Mowbray should be kept on - on this season's evidence we've badly lost our way - but Coyle's tenure was horrific. 

Hi get that none of us are saying either are good, more like a debate as to which is worse a punch in the face or kick in the balls. 

It's a good point that you make. With the same squad TM was doing a bit better. And that points to him being a little stronger in terms of ability. 

My counter would be two fold. Firstly his character and actions away from the pitch are FAR worse. Trying to sell the training ground - unforgivable. Suggesting Rovers fans were entitled due to remembering 1995 - insulting. Coyle also didn't give contracts to his mates kids and the like either. Off the pitch, far, far worse which more than undermines him being a bit better in ability (which I tend to agree with just.) 

Secondly it's a just/very marginally better. For starters TM still got us relegated. Secondly the limited number of games, as we saw to our cost this season, probably helps TM in comparison as there was less chance of the obligatory death spiral (hypothetical I know). Also Coyle came into an utter mess, he didn't even get a load of his recruits in till towards the end of the window. It was a far from easy start. To use an analogy its easier to come in part way through cleaning up a mess. Then of course there is this season. To be three points better off with a shed load of advantages is absymal. Utterly appalling and just as unimpressive in its own way. 

To be fair I doubt Coyle would have done as well as the previous 2 seasons, although with that budget and team I think he might still have got us up.  but overall I think TM has shown plenty of ineptitude as a manager and blows Coyle away with his off field antics. 

[JHRover]

Now is the perfect time to make a change. Also notice that no other clubs at our level are on the lookout right now, unless you count Sheffield United who seem confused.

Give it a couple of weeks and WBA might have a vacancy if Allardyce walks away. Maybe Fulham also. Wouldn't be surprised to see Derby make a change if their takeover gets sorted. Could become a congested market quite quickly.

See the favourite for the Salford job is Alex Neil. Are they really going to have two better managers in one season than we've had in 10 years?

[roverandout]

Coyle was a crap manager but at least it didn't last long.  Mowbray is a crap manager but also a liar and it's lasted years. Kean turned fan against fan. Mowbray is now doing the same. I would say he's as bad as kean and Coyle in different ways 

[Mattyblue]

Coyle was a total disaster of an appointment, not just because of results and the major role he played in us ending up relegated. 

The more lasting impact of that shambles of a season is the dumbing down of expectations across the patch - from the club, the local media and probably most depressingly, the fanbase. If we’d have stayed up at Brentford and meandered along since in the bottom half of the Championship, TM would’ve have long lost the fans, and we wouldn’t have the spectacle of BLACKBURN ROVERS fans being grateful for merely existing and not being in the third division.
 

[AllRoverAsia]

2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Coyle was a crap manager but at least it didn't last long.  Mowbray is a crap manager but also a liar and it's lasted years. Kean turned fan against fan. Mowbray is now doing the same. I would say he's as bad as kean and Coyle in different ways 

Coyle is stigmatised by his Burnley connection plus being a very poor manager and paying little attention to defence. Reminds me of someone else.

He wasn't at Rovers long enough to exert any real 'control' over the Club and was binned as soon as the Vs actually realised we were headed to relegation. The one Mowbray himself admits he failed to save us from.

Kean was a lapdog for those who 'ran' the Club at that time.

Mowbary with his cohorts, appointed by Mowbary, have ingrained themselves into the Ewood woodwork and are untouchables.

It's like comparing a single dog shit with piles of turd to compare Coyle with Kean and Mowbray on the long term damage to the Club.

And yet even yesterday I read on this MB that Mowbray still has credit in the Bank!

Some just never ever learn.

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Hi get that none of us are saying either are good, more like a debate as to which is worse a punch in the face or kick in the balls. 

It's a good point that you make. With the same squad TM was doing a bit better. And that points to him being a little stronger in terms of ability. 

My counter would be two fold. Firstly his character and actions away from the pitch are FAR worse. Trying to sell the training ground - unforgivable. Suggesting Rovers fans were entitled due to remembering 1995 - insulting. Coyle also didn't give contracts to his mates kids and the like either. Off the pitch, far, far worse which more than undermines him being a bit better in ability (which I tend to agree with just.) 

Secondly it's a just/very marginally better. For starters TM still got us relegated. Secondly the limited number of games, as we saw to our cost this season, probably helps TM in comparison as there was less chance of the obligatory death spiral (hypothetical I know). Also Coyle came into an utter mess, he didn't even get a load of his recruits in till towards the end of the window. It was a far from easy start. To use an analogy its easier to come in part way through cleaning up a mess. Then of course there is this season. To be three points better off with a shed load of advantages is absymal. Utterly appalling and just as unimpressive in its own way. 

To be fair I doubt Coyle would have done as well as the previous 2 seasons, although with that budget and team I think he might still have got us up.  but overall I think TM has shown plenty of ineptitude as a manager and blows Coyle away with his off field antics. 

 

To be honest, I'm deliberately leaving the subject of the training ground/academy to one side. If it turns out that Mowbray was somehow involved in trying to sell off club assets for personal gain, or the personal gain of others, then that clearly changes things and I'd have no problem agreeing with you about his character. There are questions to answer on that front (certainly from Waggott), and I'm pleased that it's not going ahead, but I don't know enough about Mowbray's role in the whole affair to to say that he was corrupt or acting against the interests of the club. Happy to be set straight on that though. 

 

On the interviews, I'd guess that I might be in a minority here, but I never saw any of Mowbray's comments as overly offensive or disrespectful to the club or the fans. Maybe a little, but on a scale from 0 to Bradley Orr, it was pretty small beer in my opinion. I'd bet we could get a collection of quotes from Sam and Hughes, maybe even Souness which could be interpreted as talking the club down just a little bit. He's been here for a good while now, and has said plenty of very complementary things about the club & its history too, so for me at least I've not been that bothered about things that he's said in interviews. 

 

Anyway, I accept that the above is a matter of opinion, but I really disagree when it comes to comparing their results record. It's true that this year we only ended up with three points more than the relegation season (which I agree is unacceptable) but this is only after taking the points we gained under Mowbray into account! Had we continued with Coyle, picking up less than a point a game as we were, that would've put us on 43 points at the end of the year. Mowbray did still take us down, but the form was pretty good - only lost 3 times to Coyle's 16. It's quite ironic actually that we were at our best under Mowbray when he was forced to be pragmatic. He did a good job initially of setting us up properly, making us harder to beat, compared to how disorganised we were in the months before he took over.

 

I'll leave it there before I start talking myself into wanting to keep Mowbray! This is the summer that he should've gone, and I'd be very surprised if he turns it around from here. But Coyle was the absolute worst.

Well, not the absolute worst, we know who that was, but you know what I mean. 

[Gav]

Does anyone actually have a shred of evidence that Tony Mowbray played any part in the proposed selling off at Brockhall? As that fact alone seems to have propelled him from a manager past his sell by date, to scum, as someone posted last night? 

Its a genuine question as I'm not up to speed, other than the plans have been shelved and it was the Chairman who was pushing this, but its the owners ultimately that are to blame, they own the club and land, not Waggot.

Its not unusual for clubs looking to raise cash to sell the training grounds, or part of them, I don't agree we need to sell ours just to make that clear. Sheff Wednesday have just been relegated due for dodgy dealing around training ground sales and where that money went, that was the owner not the manager/managers.

If Mowbray has played a part and was due to benefit financially that changes everything, but if thats not the case then he's just another manager past his sell by date in my book.

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Gav

[Blue blood]

20 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

To be honest, I'm deliberately leaving the subject of the training ground/academy to one side. If it turns out that Mowbray was somehow involved in trying to sell off club assets for personal gain, or the personal gain of others, then that clearly changes things and I'd have no problem agreeing with you about his character. There are questions to answer on that front (certainly from Waggott), and I'm pleased that it's not going ahead, but I don't know enough about Mowbray's role in the whole affair to to say that he was corrupt or acting against the interests of the club. Happy to be set straight on that though. 

 

On the interviews, I'd guess that I might be in a minority here, but I never saw any of Mowbray's comments as overly offensive or disrespectful to the club or the fans. Maybe a little, but on a scale from 0 to Bradley Orr, it was pretty small beer in my opinion. I'd bet we could get a collection of quotes from Sam and Hughes, maybe even Souness which could be interpreted as talking the club down just a little bit. He's been here for a good while now, and has said plenty of very complementary things about the club & its history too, so for me at least I've not been that bothered about things that he's said in interviews. 

 

Anyway, I accept that the above is a matter of opinion, but I really disagree when it comes to comparing their results record. It's true that this year we only ended up with three points more than the relegation season (which I agree is unacceptable) but this is only after taking the points we gained under Mowbray into account! Had we continued with Coyle, picking up less than a point a game as we were, that would've put us on 43 points at the end of the year. Mowbray did still take us down, but the form was pretty good - only lost 3 times to Coyle's 16. It's quite ironic actually that we were at our best under Mowbray when he was forced to be pragmatic. He did a good job initially of setting us up properly, making us harder to beat, compared to how disorganised we were in the months before he took over.

 

I'll leave it there before I start talking myself into wanting to keep Mowbray! This is the summer that he should've gone, and I'd be very surprised if he turns it around from here. But Coyle was the absolute worst.

Well, not the absolute worst, we know who that was, but you know what I mean. 

Thanks for a very well reasoned reply. Appreciate there is a lot of opinion and conjecture in this although fwiw given his clout at the club I find it impossible to think he didn't know of and at least tacitly approve of the plans. (Plus the Coventrio is a huge coincidence otherwise too!)

 

Where I really take issue is the all managers comments can be seen as talking us down. There is a huge difference between the reality changing BS the current incumbents spouts and previous managers talking us down a bit. Not under Souness, Hughes, Ince or any manager has anyone ever said the fans are measuring against winning the PL. It's an utter lie to discredit fans. No manager has ever said we need to acclimatise to the championship as a league one outfit. No manager has ever effectively said the previous 3 years don't count. No manager has stated as many factual inaccuracies (deliberately) as him. There's a huge difference between what TM is doing and what others have done. It's a bit like comparing someone who goes a couple of miles over the speed limit with someone drink driving along the pavement. 

As you say though it's probably best to leave it here before I start to forget Coyle was utterly useless too. It's a poor do that the competition between the two is so fierce for who is worse and even sadder than neither make the top spot. And all in the last 10 years! Makes me amazed we still have any fans left.

[AllRoverAsia]

Remember those games as a kid when you joined up the dots to make a picture before progressing on to more and more difficult jigsaw puzzles.

The Ewood story is like a dot picture that a 5 year old could finish in a couple of minutes.

[Boroblue]

Thanks Gav and Admiral for well thought out and reasoned opinions. While it is obvious from previous posts I have a low opinion of Mowbray I can still appreciate and reflect on alternative views.

In terms of the Brockhall if this were an isolated incident of infrastructure sale then yes I could agree that it is possible that Mowbray had no knowledge but unfortunately the three of them have prior for this sort of dealing. I suppose I’m saying it’s guilt by association.

One of the things we all agree on is we want the best for Rovers. I can find no case for that sale which would support this goal.

I was once  at a Rovers U23 game  at Norwich and was sat amongst the parents. All of them were clear that Mowbray hated the academy and wanted to dismantle it and use the money for the first team. They also felt the academy graduates would struggle to get first team opportunities because Mowbray did not want the academy to be seen as successful. I do appreciate these are only opinions but every opinion has at its base an element of fact particularly when it’s shared by a group.

I also would appreciate Mowbray complaints about Rovers but he’s had money, time and facilities that most championship managers only dream of. Yet none of its good enough. I can’t wait to see where he ends up next because he has in my opinion totally wasted a fantastic opportunity to achieve any of the goals a professional manager should have.

Mowbray fulfills the criteria for a bad workman blaming his tools