Tony Mowbray Discussion

[oldjamfan1]

Just now, Amo said:

Billy Davies has a decent record at this level but he hasn't managed for five years so maybe he's spent?

Anyway, there's the likes of Moyes, Sparky, Pearson, Adkins, Coleman. A decent shortlist to start with. Although we'll probably bob along with ToMo to see how bad it can get.

A couple of good names on that list. Billy Davies has issues with the booze at the minute so I doubt he’s well enough to work at Ewood. Kean mk2.

[LDRover]

Roy Keane. Because we need someone to crack a few heads in that dressing room.

Sorry @DE.!!!!!

Edited October 6, 2019 by LDRover

[DE.]

Just now, LDRover said:

Roy Keane. Because we need someone to crack a few heads in that dressing room.

Sorry @DE.!!!!!

Apology not accepted. 

[tomphil]

There are some desperate names being chucked about on here yet i can't see how we are at that point things aren't that bad.  Boring yes but change for the sake of change needs leaving to one side for now.

What we need is a sensible upgrade hopefully brought about by some actual forward planning we are batting from a better position to the recent past now thanks to Mowbray so his work needs building on.  

Start sounding out some decent names and leave the scrapheap rummaging alone next time.

 

[Stuart]

Just now, tomphil said:

There are some desperate names being chucked about on here yet i can't see how we are at that point things aren't that bad.  Boring yes but change for the sake of change needs leaving to one side for now.

What we need is a sensible upgrade hopefully brought about by some actual forward planning we are batting from a better position to the recent past now thanks to Mowbray so his work needs building on.  

Start sounding out some decent names and leave the scrapheap rummaging alone next time.

 

It’s not about boring football. Do you really think that’s the complaint?

It’s about where we are and where we need to be. We need to be challenging for the final play-off spot yet we look nowhere near - and increasingly further away the longer time goes on.

Do people think this is a blip and that he will get back on track? Do people feel he is building a capable squad? Failed big money buys and short term loan fixes suggest not.

So it comes down to how long people think we should be patient for - the most important people being the Raos. If they lose interest at any point before we are promoted it’s curtains.

[JHRover]

Who on earth aims for a 'play off push'? What constitutes success under that 'target'?

Talk about setting the bar low on targets and expectations. 

All to be expected here though. Serious managers target promotion and do everything they can to get it asap.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Stuart said:

It’s not about boring football. Do you really think that’s the complaint?

It’s about where we are and where we need to be. We need to be challenging for the final play-off spot yet we look nowhere near - and increasingly further away the longer time goes on.

Do people think this is a blip and that he will get back on track? Do people feel he is building a capable squad? Failed big money buys and short term loan fixes suggest not.

So it comes down to how long people think we should be patient for - the most important people being the Raos. If they lose interest at any point before we are promoted it’s curtains.

What's really annoying is this League is rank average this season. There are no outstanding teams that are almost unbeatable. Any half decent team will be in with a shout of going up.Just when we decide to implode.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[tomphil]

Just now, Stuart said:

It’s not about boring football. Do you really think that’s the complaint?

It’s about where we are and where we need to be. We need to be challenging for the final play-off spot yet we look nowhere near - and increasingly further away the longer time goes on.

Do people think this is a blip and that he will get back on track? Do people feel he is building a capable squad? Failed big money buys and short term loan fixes suggest not.

So it comes down to how long people think we should be patient for - the most important people being the Raos. If they lose interest at any point before we are promoted it’s curtains.

I think boring football should be a complaint don't you ?   It's part of the reason the team is going nowhere and part of the reason the crowds are down so yes of course it's a genuine complaint if not exactly a sackable offence.

Boring winning footballl now that's a different thing altogether. 

As for blip well he does have a habit of turning it around although i think it might be about to catch up with him this time like it did with GB, remember he changed style a little bit at the beginning of his last season and it didn't work.  Overall though iv'e already said we'll never get anything different from Mowbray it's the way he works and always has he's a steady 1.5 ish pts a game over a season man no matter what his budget or players so yes long term i want a change but we might have to bite the bullet this season.

To swap him before Jan for an upgrade i'm all for it but to sack him in the hope a Billy Davies or Adkins would come in now and light a fire under it is nonsense, imo of course.   Just a repeat of the Lambert scenario awaits and that lead to Coyle and relegation....

Edited October 6, 2019 by tomphil

[rigger]

Just now, Stuart said:

Not even sure what that is supposed to mean.

#headinthesand

And some fell on stony ground 

[rigger]

Just now, Stuart said:

Ah!

Mea cuppa!

(Sorry rigger - so used to the sniping!)

Accepted 

[JHRover]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What's really annoying is this League is rank average this season. There are no outstanding teams that are almost unbeatable. Any half decent team will be in with a shout of going up.Just when we decide to implode.

There are however huge clubs like Stoke and Middlesbrough who we have to look forward to trying to compete against.

If the attitude above is reflected by the manager towards the players we will never get anywhere. It's the perfect excuse for mediocrity.

[savage90]

I think we're going to have another case of "should be sacked, won't be sacked" 

[Bbrovers2288]

I would really like to get behind Johnson unless we can bring in a champ worldie which I doubt 

[harryhealless1928]

To me the real worry is if we get in a relegation-battle by going on another poor run.

The threadbare defence in spite of a glut of 20+ midfielders(shades of Gary Bowyers unbalanced squad anyone?). To be fair to Gary Bowyer he was a hell of a lot better than Mowbray in the buying/selling department. Injuries to 2/3 defenders mean we will struggle to put out a team at all in spite of the £15 million spent! Dont you think other teams will target our vulnerable defence? 

 

[OldEwoodBlue]

If only we still had a Tony Parkes to step in and sort it out.

 

[MCMC1875]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

If only we still had a Tony Parkes to step in and sort it out.

 

He's not far away.

[Blue blood]

The real worry is who would we get instead? Am.terrified that Vs will make a worse appointment. That said I don't think TM is particularly good and he has taken us as far as he can. Speaks volumes for a manager's ability when the argument for keeping him is the owners will appoint worse. Shows he has lost the plot. 

The simalarities with Bowyer are huge. Albeit I think TM is a bit better tactically and a bit weaker in the transfer market. The problem is like Bowyer - a) we're throwing away a good crack at play offs with a team that should do better and b) what happens when the budget is cut/key players leave? 

Bowyer struggled when Gestede and Cairney went and his budget was reduced. I'm pretty sure history will repeat itself with TM. as our best players/goal threats age and leave (Mulgrew's set piece get out of jail card had already gone  when his legs went, before the Wigan move, and Graham is on the wane.) Combined with a lowering of budgets - can't see them too trusting after £12 mill down the pan and we will head like we did under Bowyer.

If a change was made now, before the new guy has little to work with and we're embroiled in a relegation scrap, then there is a chance that momentum can be arrested and a crack made at play offs this season or next. If we leave it too late, as per usual it could be a bumpy few years. 

Not sure what to go for in terms of new manager but feel looking abroad may be the answer. Unless we are to get proven track record of success & experience in this division e.g. a Warnock type, I feel the experienced manager route hasn't hugely worked. TM, Clueless and Lambert haven't pulled up trees. Similarly the young aspiring coach/manager hasn't yielded too much success with Appleton and Bowyer not doing it either. Perhaps a manager from abroad would be best as it is something we haven't tried and has seen a lot of success of late in this division - Hudds & Norwich promoted with it, Leeds did well too with it.

That said with someone doing their homework well I think there are good options in the UK managerial market but the challenge is we haven't really had anyone make smart decisions on this previously. So perhaps as a managerial appointment gamble the odds may be better from abroad. 

[Amo]

2 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

A couple of good names on that list. Billy Davies has issues with the booze at the minute so I doubt he’s well enough to work at Ewood. Kean mk2.

Oh really? Wondered if there was a reason he's becoming the next Alan Curbishley.

[Hasta]

You normally get a feeling when a manager is about to go. A feeling that the pressure has built, the dressing room doesn't believe and and there's is no way this manager is turning the situation around. 

I feel we are right at the start of that process and that, even if we go at relegation form over the upcoming months, it will be into the new year before I think they will consider a change. I think we will stagger at around a point a game from here on in and finish lower middle. What is disappointing is that the league looks fairly wide open. 

The glaring failure to recruit at the back, and to start the season with 3 of the back 4 who were members of a relegation squad 3 years ago, is now showing. 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I have seen a change in style and us playing much more of passing game. 

If you seen the game you will know that our final third play for majority of game was awful. When we deliver quality we scored or created problems. Also defending like we had yesterday will see us nowhere near top 6. 

Play like we did yesterday and we aren't getting top 6. simple as. 

Question is what are the owners thinking atm and who would pick the next manager Waggott or Pasha or both? 

Charlton owner is in talks with a possible new owner and I don't see him leaving them for us. Simple as. 

Rowett is 1st choice at Millwall to replace Harris. 

Like I said to you before I'm unsure who I would appoint if we had an vacancy in the manager seat. I have spoken about us changing our football structure to a more of European structure with a sporting director/head coach like Norwich and Villa have. Plus also who would the manager/head coach bring in as his coaching staff is also important

well I'm never seen Mowbray the way he was yesterday with the press

yet again mate, I had no problem with the Gallagher signing but like I did say at the time to you that Mowbray 1st priorities this summer should have been Centre back, Keeper and Full back. Not a striker. 

I think that is pointing to a man under pressure or a man is getting fed up with the players not doing their jobs properly defensively

The way we are playing has been a topic of great debate on here for 2 reasons, both of which you have defending Mowbray about after every single game, claiming progression has been made on both scores. I have personally criticised the style of play, for me its a lot of slow, laborious passing in our own half, and often followed by a direct pass anyway. We have had more of the ball but have been less effective in attack. I have also said that boring football is withstandable if its effective but it hasnt been which is the main issue.

So I would be interested to know the following questions:

- Do you still stand by your assertions that our style of football has been effective? My opinion mirrors some in the style of football thread, its horrible to watch, its not done in an effective or clear way, and its resulted in very few goals and just as worryingly, very few shots on target or clear chances.

- Do you still think that Mowbray is right to repeatedly change his team? I dont think Mowbray knows his best team, and I think consistency in team selection is critical in terms of getting consistency in results.

I thought you didnt go yesterday, did you manage to watch the game? That was my question to be fair, I was investigating whether the change of heart was as a result of a singular result.

I just dont want us to fall into a trap when we do replace Mowbray of going straight for the same names, I'd rather we pushed for someone a bit more ambitious.

I dont think he is under any pressure at all. I think delving into who would pick the new manager, whether the owners are considering a change etc is all sadly all naive and premature. I suspect hes got a cushy job under his mate Waggott for the forseeable and of course any managerial change would be more to push on and progress to where we expect to be, we arent in crisis or anything, so I think sadly nothing will change and we will continue to stagnate.

[chaddyrovers]

23 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Perhaps a manager from abroad would be best as it is something we haven't tried and has seen a lot of success of late in this division - Hudds & Norwich promoted with it, Leeds did well too with it.

That said with someone doing their homework well I think there are good options in the UK managerial market but the challenge is we haven't really had anyone make smart decisions on this previously. So perhaps as a managerial appointment gamble the odds may be better from abroad. 

surely that is where you need a sporting director in place with loads of European experience like Stuart Webber or Phil Giles or Mike Rigg

1 hour ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

I would really like to get behind Johnson unless we can bring in a champ worldie which I doubt 

I think Johnson would be a good choice But he needs the right structure around him. I would like to see Sporting Director appoint and Johnson needs a good number 2 with him

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What's really annoying is this League is rank average this season. There are no outstanding teams that are almost unbeatable. Any half decent team will be in with a shout of going up.Just when we decide to implode.

League is wide open this season. No outstanding teams and that include Leeds who even 3 defeats already./ 

[gumboots]

Do you actually think a Sporting Director post has any chance of being brought in at Rovers? 

I'm not criticising the idea BTW. I listened to the Norwich guy I think it was yesterday and he talked a lot of sense. I just think there is nobody to advise the Raos we could look at that management model and I'm not sure they'd listen anyway

Edited October 6, 2019 by gumboots

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, gumboots said:

Do you actually think a Sporting Director post has any chance of being brought in at Rovers? 

I'm not criticising the idea BTW. I listened to the Norwich guy I think it was yesterday and he talked a lot of sense. I just think there is nobody to advise the Raos we could look at that management model and I'm not sure they'd listen anyway

Who knows who they listen to and when ?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The way we are playing has been a topic of great debate on here for 2 reasons, both of which you have defending Mowbray about after every single game, claiming progression has been made on both scores. I have personally criticised the style of play, for me its a lot of slow, laborious passing in our own half, and often followed by a direct pass anyway. We have had more of the ball but have been less effective in attack. I have also said that boring football is withstandable if its effective but it hasnt been which is the main issue.

So I would be interested to know the following questions:

- Do you still stand by your assertions that our style of football has been effective? My opinion mirrors some in the style of football thread, its horrible to watch, its not done in an effective or clear way, and its resulted in very few goals and just as worryingly, very few shots on target or clear chances.

- Do you still think that Mowbray is right to repeatedly change his team? I dont think Mowbray knows his best team, and I think consistency in team selection is critical in terms of getting consistency in results.

I thought you didnt go yesterday, did you manage to watch the game? That was my question to be fair, I was investigating whether the change of heart was as a result of a singular result.

I just dont want us to fall into a trap when we do replace Mowbray of going straight for the same names, I'd rather we pushed for someone a bit more ambitious.

I dont think he is under any pressure at all. I think delving into who would pick the new manager, whether the owners are considering a change etc is all sadly all naive and premature. I suspect hes got a cushy job under his mate Waggott for the forseeable and of course any managerial change would be more to push on and progress to where we expect to be, we arent in crisis or anything, so I think sadly nothing will change and we will continue to stagnate.

well I have show you after every game the stats are showing we are playing more and more short passes and less Long Ball. 

I find our style of play is effective to a certain point then our final pass or cross isn't good enough. Look at the goals yesterday when we provide quality we score or won a penalty. Look at Forest game and our goal. Or quality of passing was good until that final pass/cross. I don't find it horrible to watch as I like to watch possession based football. My main worry is the lack of chances for the number 9 striker

Every manager change the team from game to game. 1 or 2 changes is standard in Modern football. Forest and Preston did think regular but still manage to pick up results. I'm not even sure I could name our strongest team atm. 

I watched it on a link. I was annoyed on the defending for each goal and our quality in the final third as I said in the match thread last night. 

We pushed for someone a bit more ambitious? but we don't pay big wages on manager. I cant see Hughton or Bowyer being interested for the reasons I stated before. Like I said before I'm unsure who I would go for. But I would like to see a football structure in place there as I posted before

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Do you actually think a Sporting Director post has any chance of being brought in at Rovers? 

I'm not criticising the idea BTW. I listened to the Norwich guy I think it was yesterday and he talked a lot of sense. I just think there is nobody to advise the Raos we could look at that management model and I'm not sure they'd listen anyway

Stuart Webber the Norwich Sporting Director has done a great job with Norwich and Huddersfield through recruitment that has in able the head coach to get them promoted. 

Venkys has employed it a couple of times but not give it time. Simon Hunt with Kean and Senior with Coyle and Mowbray