Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Oldgregg86]

Id sack tony today and give it to Johnson until the end if the season. That way we can asses what kind of manager we need and who is available whilst seeing how Johnno does. If he sets the world on fire give him the job if not then appoint a manager you have done your homework on. 

I would have Nigel Pearson as my first choice.

[Hasta]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

well I have show you after every game the stats are showing we are playing more and more short passes and less Long Ball. 

Unless someone can show otherwise, I find our short passes are being knocked around between our own back four, or in midfield 50 yards from the opposition goal. Most teams can knock it around at the back and increase their pass stats if they don't try and push forward. The problem is a lot of the time, unless we catch teams on the break, we only looked effective when we fire a long ball in to Graham and play off it. We've tried to change it as Grahams time is drawing to a close but it simply hasn't worked. 

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Hasta

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Hasta said:

Unless someone can show otherwise, I find our short passes are being knocked around between our back for or in midfield 50 yards from the opposition goal. Most teams can knock it around at the back and increase their pass stats if they don't try and push forward. The problem is a lot of the time unless we catch teams on the break we only looked effective when we fire a long ball in to Graham and play off it. We've tried to change it as Grahams time is drawing to a close but it simply hasn't worked. 

 

Opposing teams will let you play in front of them all day long. As long as you can see the guy you're marking and the ball at the same time defending is relatively easy. We need players who can get their opponents turned around and running back towards their own goal. Defending isn't so easy when that happens. You might be able to see your immediate opponent but can you see the ball and vice versa ?

Those two in the photo above in their prime would do me. Both of them could get opponents turning around.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[OldEwoodBlue]

[JHRover]

He's been afforded time and opportunities that most other managers could only dream of. He's been in position now longer than all but 2 rival managers and well above the average tenure for a manager at this level. He's had a +£15 million net transfer budget in two summers, apparently been in control of recruitment, not lost anyone he didn't want to sell, had complete autonomy over the football operation and has even been able to bring in his own Chief Executive.

The only problem that he might have had is working in a vacuum under Venkys and being given a set of criteria when spending their money e.g. the mysterious appearance of £7 million for Brereton on transfer deadline day and likely strings attached to that money before they allowed it to be spent.

There's no indication of any progress of any nature. We're still leaking goals in pitiful fashion, still far too easy to score against, too easy to beat, still boring to watch, still chopping and changing teams and formations on a regular basis.

I long since realised that this manager is either unwilling or unable to change his ways, and delve back into his previous at other clubs it was all very similar. 

He'll likely keep us up. That isn't an achievement for this club but given the people running it and what happened before Mowbray it could be worse. So that's where we are at. If you are satisfied to tread water in this division and be told we're 'trying' to 'compete' with 'huge clubs' like Middlesbrough whilst Preston challenge for promotion and Burnley perform in the top division then great, if you are scared stiff at what the imbeciles upstairs will come up with next then Tony can carry on and I'm sure we will achieve a bare minimum each year for the next couple of seasons (Until the inevitable sales begin).

We aren't going to get promoted or even come close to it under a manager that doesn't know his best team or system, has no plan B, has shown since day 1 he can't set a team up to defend and be hard to score against and thinks he is cleverer than he is with his fancy formations and systems. 

In the end he's going nowhere. Coyle got 8 months of relegation form, protesting fans and plummeting gates before he was sacked.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Time to bring the poll back I think.

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

well I have show you after every game the stats are showing we are playing more and more short passes and less Long Ball. 

I find our style of play is effective to a certain point then our final pass or cross isn't good enough. Look at the goals yesterday when we provide quality we score or won a penalty. Look at Forest game and our goal. Or quality of passing was good until that final pass/cross. I don't find it horrible to watch as I like to watch possession based football. My main worry is the lack of chances for the number 9 striker

Every manager change the team from game to game. 1 or 2 changes is standard in Modern football. Forest and Preston did think regular but still manage to pick up results. I'm not even sure I could name our strongest team atm. 

I watched it on a link. I was annoyed on the defending for each goal and our quality in the final third as I said in the match thread last night. 

We pushed for someone a bit more ambitious? but we don't pay big wages on manager. I cant see Hughton or Bowyer being interested for the reasons I stated before. Like I said before I'm unsure who I would go for. But I would like to see a football structure in place there as I posted before

But the passing is remedial and in no way threatening, other teams that are well organised see Lenihan, Williams and co passing it side to side and think yeah, have it there, because it never leads to anything progressive or penetrative. Having more passes than last season isnt a badge of honour if we are even less threatening, and there is nothing to be applauded about having more passes if they are totally pointless. 

I think that if we repeatedly have struggled to create clear cut chances in EVERY game this season then the new style of football isnt working. You suggested the other day that it had garnered improvement that you had seen v Luton and Forest, for me we were shite in both games, stodgy, slow, lethargic, totally blunt, even worse than last season.

I also do think that the striker has a responsibility in terms of the amount of chances we have, chance creation isnt just a burden of the players behind him. Some have that knack of being able to anticipate and sniff out where the ball will fall. Rhodes was a master of it, regardless of the levels of service. Likewise Graham last season, many of his goals were scruffy, I think all inside the box, but he got 15 or 16. He looks leggy in his limited time this season but look v Luton, when players had the ball Gallagher I felt went hiding in the box, and when he had the ball near goal twice he instantly tried to pass on all responsibility and gave the ball away trying to pass the buck. Graham came on, the first thing he did was peeled off his man and got a shot on target. He soon after peeled round again and it took a last ditch block to prevent him. Gallagher does not have that knack of knowing where the ball will fall.

Regarding changes, 1 or 2 isnt the problem, of course you cant rely solely on 11 players, but no one knowing our best team isnt healthy. Preston and Forest make subtle changes amidst an overhaul consistent system, when they change personnel it doesnt change the overall make up of the team, look at PNE, Johnson or Browne, Potts or Harrop, Barkhuizen or Maguire, it doesnt really make much difference.

Our squad has some talented players in it but it is incredibly imbalanced. We are horribly light in defence, we have plenty of midfielders but all of them want to play centrally, and absolutely no cutting edge. Mowbray also seems reluctant to include more than one "flair" player on a regular basis, rather than embracing a potential strength, and trying to fit Dack, Rothwell and Holtby all in the same team.

How do you know about the wages we spend on our manager compared to other teams? Surely we could offer more than Charlton. The manager is the most important person, makes no sense to penny pinch on him and spend 12m on 2 shit strikers!

[jim mk2]

Was it me but yesterday after Lenihan went off (injury I presume) did not Mowbray until it came unstuck put Evans at centre half and Tosin right back?

[JHRover]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

Was it me but yesterday after Lenihan went off (injury I presume) did not Mowbray until it came unstuck put Evans at centre half and Tosin right back?

I think for a period of about 10 minutes he had Bennett-Tosin-Evans-Williams-Bell as a back 5 with Evans as the central one yes.

[Wegerleswiggle]

Have always supported TM but now we are at the point in the season where it can be rescued with a change..

Chris Hughton for me..

 

[jim mk2]

Just now, JHRover said:

I think for a period of about 10 minutes he had Bennett-Tosin-Evans-Williams-Bell as a back 5 with Evans as the central one yes.

So what was the thinking there?  It was never going to work; Evans got skinned by one of their forwards who went through on goal. Why does he over-complicate things? Apart from the soft goals the team looked better when Tosin went to his best position at centre half. Mowbray confuses me, so I'm sure the players get confused too. 

[arbitro]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

Was it me but yesterday after Lenihan went off (injury I presume) did not Mowbray until it came unstuck put Evans at centre half and Tosin right back?

We noticed that too and really struggled to understand the logic behind it. It's another example of Mowbray trying to be clever. 

It was around that time that Bennett passed a note to Evans.

[rovers11]

Whilst I agree that we’re headed for another season of mediocrity, I wouldn’t be getting rid of TM at this stage. We’re a bad appointment away from free fall again and another stint in lge 1. I’d much rather take mid table over that and then re-evaluate in the summer. 

I wouldn’t back against some positive results again after the international break and suddenly a 4-2 shocker against a crap team like QPR is a little easier to take. TM has always bounced back well from moments where people question his position. 

[Waggy76]

44 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Those were the days !!!

[chaddyrovers]

55 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But the passing is remedial and in no way threatening, other teams that are well organised see Lenihan, Williams and co passing it side to side and think yeah, have it there, because it never leads to anything progressive or penetrative. Having more passes than last season isnt a badge of honour if we are even less threatening, and there is nothing to be applauded about having more passes if they are totally pointless. 

I think that if we repeatedly have struggled to create clear cut chances in EVERY game this season then the new style of football isnt working. You suggested the other day that it had garnered improvement that you had seen v Luton and Forest, for me we were shite in both games, stodgy, slow, lethargic, totally blunt, even worse than last season.

I also do think that the striker has a responsibility in terms of the amount of chances we have, chance creation isnt just a burden of the players behind him. Some have that knack of being able to anticipate and sniff out where the ball will fall. Rhodes was a master of it, regardless of the levels of service. Likewise Graham last season, many of his goals were scruffy, I think all inside the box, but he got 15 or 16. He looks leggy in his limited time this season but look v Luton, when players had the ball Gallagher I felt went hiding in the box, and when he had the ball near goal twice he instantly tried to pass on all responsibility and gave the ball away trying to pass the buck. Graham came on, the first thing he did was peeled off his man and got a shot on target. He soon after peeled round again and it took a last ditch block to prevent him. Gallagher does not have that knack of knowing where the ball will fall.

Regarding changes, 1 or 2 isnt the problem, of course you cant rely solely on 11 players, but no one knowing our best team isnt healthy. Preston and Forest make subtle changes amidst an overhaul consistent system, when they change personnel it doesnt change the overall make up of the team, look at PNE, Johnson or Browne, Potts or Harrop, Barkhuizen or Maguire, it doesnt really make much difference.

Our squad has some talented players in it but it is incredibly imbalanced. We are horribly light in defence, we have plenty of midfielders but all of them want to play centrally, and absolutely no cutting edge. Mowbray also seems reluctant to include more than one "flair" player on a regular basis, rather than embracing a potential strength, and trying to fit Dack, Rothwell and Holtby all in the same team.

How do you know about the wages we spend on our manager compared to other teams? Surely we could offer more than Charlton. The manager is the most important person, makes no sense to penny pinch on him and spend 12m on 2 shit strikers!

well I'm sorry but if you thought we were shite against Forest you must have been watching a different game to me and to the people I spoke to about the game. I would say our final ball in the first half wasn't good enough but second half we got better. Look at our goal against Forest was that Stodgy, slow, lethargic? 

The vast majority of games this season we have played a 4-2-3-1- formation. We switch to 3 at the back against Millwall. so I cant see the argument there. 

I don't see how you can Holtby, Dack or Rothwell in the same team for me unless all 3 play behind a striker but for me I wouldn't even tho I picked it for this game or previous one. 

on Manager wages, you clearly don't remember the conversation me, you and Pete on twitter a few weeks/month ago about wages and how much we pay tho. Do you not remember? 

Bowyer is a former Charlton player, Club is in takeover talks and would he want to come here. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

well I'm sorry but if you thought we were shite against Forest you must have been watching a different game to me and to the people I spoke to about the game. I would say our final ball in the first half wasn't good enough but second half we got better. Look at our goal against Forest was that Stodgy, slow, lethargic? 

The vast majority of games this season we have played a 4-2-3-1- formation. We switch to 3 at the back against Millwall. so I cant see the argument there. 

I don't see how you can Holtby, Dack or Rothwell in the same team for me unless all 3 play behind a striker but for me I wouldn't even tho I picked it for this game or previous one. 

on Manager wages, you clearly don't remember the conversation me, you and Pete on twitter a few weeks/month ago about wages and how much we pay tho. Do you not remember? 

Bowyer is a former Charlton player, Club is in takeover talks and would he want to come here. 

The goal apart, we didnt create a clear cut chance as far as I can remember. It was a horrid watch, and those I spoke to agreed. Matter of opinion, but did we have a chance aside from the goal that was a decent chance? Same story, different game. 

Surely if you were happy up until yesterday, it is a bit of an overreaction on the base of one game?

[tomphil]

30 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Those were the days !!!

There's more talent in that one picture of those rwo than the entire championship of now !

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The goal apart, we didnt create a clear cut chance as far as I can remember. It was a horrid watch, and those I spoke to agreed. Matter of opinion, but did we have a chance aside from the goal that was a decent chance? Same story, different game. 

Surely if you were happy up until yesterday, it is a bit of an overreaction on the base of one game?

Firstly, why didnt you answer this point? 

on Manager wages, you clearly don't remember the conversation me, you and Pete on twitter a few weeks/month ago about wages and how much we pay tho. Do you not remember? 

Look at what I said about the Forest game and 1st and 2nd half so I dont have to keep repeating myself to you..

I explained this yesterday why I was annoyed at the performance and said I couldnt complained if Mowbray was sack. Surely this would answer your question

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

But the passing is remedial and in no way threatening, other teams that are well organised see Lenihan, Williams and co passing it side to side and think yeah, have it there, because it never leads to anything progressive or penetrative. Having more passes than last season isnt a badge of honour if we are even less threatening, and there is nothing to be applauded about having more passes if they are totally pointless. 

I think that if we repeatedly have struggled to create clear cut chances in EVERY game this season then the new style of football isnt working. You suggested the other day that it had garnered improvement that you had seen v Luton and Forest, for me we were shite in both games, stodgy, slow, lethargic, totally blunt, even worse than last season.

I also do think that the striker has a responsibility in terms of the amount of chances we have, chance creation isnt just a burden of the players behind him. Some have that knack of being able to anticipate and sniff out where the ball will fall. Rhodes was a master of it, regardless of the levels of service. Likewise Graham last season, many of his goals were scruffy, I think all inside the box, but he got 15 or 16. He looks leggy in his limited time this season but look v Luton, when players had the ball Gallagher I felt went hiding in the box, and when he had the ball near goal twice he instantly tried to pass on all responsibility and gave the ball away trying to pass the buck. Graham came on, the first thing he did was peeled off his man and got a shot on target. He soon after peeled round again and it took a last ditch block to prevent him. Gallagher does not have that knack of knowing where the ball will fall.

Regarding changes, 1 or 2 isnt the problem, of course you cant rely solely on 11 players, but no one knowing our best team isnt healthy. Preston and Forest make subtle changes amidst an overhaul consistent system, when they change personnel it doesnt change the overall make up of the team, look at PNE, Johnson or Browne, Potts or Harrop, Barkhuizen or Maguire, it doesnt really make much difference.

Our squad has some talented players in it but it is incredibly imbalanced. We are horribly light in defence, we have plenty of midfielders but all of them want to play centrally, and absolutely no cutting edge. Mowbray also seems reluctant to include more than one "flair" player on a regular basis, rather than embracing a potential strength, and trying to fit Dack, Rothwell and Holtby all in the same team.

How do you know about the wages we spend on our manager compared to other teams? Surely we could offer more than Charlton. The manager is the most important person, makes no sense to penny pinch on him and spend 12m on 2 shit strikers!

Letting the centre halves have the ball and then pressing everywhere else is one of the oldest tactics in the book.

[Leonard Venkhater]

On 05/10/2019 at 18:34, booth said:

And paid for himself.

How?

 

[LDRover]

54 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Firstly, why didnt you answer this point? 

on Manager wages, you clearly don't remember the conversation me, you and Pete on twitter a few weeks/month ago about wages and how much we pay tho. Do you not remember? 

Look at what I said about the Forest game and 1st and 2nd half so I dont have to keep repeating myself to you..

I explained this yesterday why I was annoyed at the performance and said I couldnt complained if Mowbray was sack. Surely this would answer your question

So your change is down to just the QPR game then? Quite a shift from Thursday when you said he should be given time to build a team for the playoffs and that you were happy with the direction he was taking us don't you think?

[Leonard Venkhater]

22 hours ago, Proudtobeblue&white said:

It won't happen until we descend into the relegation battle. We all want to win every game, but TM will take us down again. Owners have no hands on experience, have no idea about our national game. They only act after disaster......reaction, not proactive action. We will never go forward until they leave.

Certainly, that is the trajectory.

Since January it is 15 defeats in 28 league games...and two missed opportunities to sort out the longstanding shit defence.

Meanwhile, the money spent on forwards looks ridiculously amateurish too.

Going nowhere, but backwards.

[Stuart]

7 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

How?

 

Unless you count wages, we sold for a higher price than we bought.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Stuart said:

Unless you count wages, we sold for a higher price than we bought.

Ah...not counting wages? 

That is like a map of The British Isles with no Manchester or London! ( No bad thing either. you may think)

[Stuart]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

Ah...not counting wages? 

That is like a map of The British Isles with no Manchester or London! ( No bad thing either. you may think)

Just trying to explain the logic.

You find me a single player who plays for free. In the sense that we didn’t make a loss on his transfer fee.

I expect that may be different with Ben Brereton for example.