Tony Mowbray Discussion

[simongarnerisgod]

26 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

It's actually mental how out of touch with Reality Waggott actually is. How can a CEO have zero understanding of the club is actually beyond me.

Could say the same for Mowbray, tactically lost us the game yesterday. You watch Mowbray drop Dolan on Tuesday for a loanee.

 

it amazed me that while 11,000 rovers fans could see we needed an extra midfielder on the pitch,our experienced manager could`nt see it,i agree,there will be quite a few  changes on tuesday night imo,i bet buckley,dolan and rothwell make way for the loan brigade

[roversfan99]

30 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

It's actually mental how out of touch with Reality Waggott actually is. How can a CEO have zero understanding of the club is actually beyond me.

Could say the same for Mowbray, tactically lost us the game yesterday. You watch Mowbray drop Dolan on Tuesday for a loanee.

 

I dont get the loanee obsession. Of course based on Saturday, Dolan is part of it but the objective of tomorrow should be to select the team with the biggest chance of winning the game rather than obsessing over the contracts that they are on. We know that the contractual situation in general is piss poor but its a seperate issue going back to the owners. Would you drop Nyambe, Lenihan, Brereton and Rothwell?

Edited September 13, 2021 by roversfan99

[phili]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont get the loanee obsession. Of course based on Saturday, Dolan is part of it but the objective of tomorrow should be to select the team with the biggest chance of winning the game rather than obsessing over the contracts that they are on. We know that the contractual situation in general is piss poor but its a seperate issue going back to the owners. Would you drop Nyambe, Lenihan, Brereton and Rothwell?

If we had a better fitter centre back, I would drop Lenihan in a heart beat. Every time I watch him I think how is he ever a centre back. Everything about his game is wrong, he has just not progressed or developed at all in 4 years. 

I would keep the same team as Saturday, more they play together the more settled the side will become, better understanding of playing with each other and most probably better results. I often think all the chopping and changing we do confuses everyone and results in our poor performances, only being good for 45 mins etc.

He should stick to one formation, 4-3-3 or whatever, pick the best players for that formation and stick to it. Its a simple game, why does he always overcomplicate it?

[Paul Mellelieu]

13 hours ago, JHRover said:

Sheffield Wednesday were under FFP restrictions last year (we aren't as confirmed by the club) yet they were still able to sack of Garry Monk, Tony Pulis and all their coaching staff and replace them with other proven managers.

So I don't accept the excuse that FFP is preventing us from removing Mowbray or attracting anyone decent.

You'll also remember then that Paul Lambert (on paper our only decent looking appointment since Allardyce) arrived during the time we were under an embargo. Seemingly convinced that we had a plan to get out of it. Not sure why something similar couldn't happen right now and a good manager be brought in on the basis he could get ready for backing next year.

He didn't go to India last year for good reason. The world was locked down and nobody knew what was happening with the football seasons. This summer he could have gone out there or alternative plans could have been made with a conventional summer window. 

How many times do I have to say this? We lost £20 million last year in no small part due to the pandemic. Costs attributable to the pandemic can be discounted from FFP calculations. So that figure should be substantially lower. The massive savings made in terms of the wage bill and Armstrong cash would also be factored into any discussions with the League on restrictions - if they were suggesting restrictions were coming we could show that we had slashed costs down and brought cash in.

I also keep coming back to the Millwalls, Lutons and Barnsleys - smaller clubs who manage to attract decent managers, build squads, finish mid table or push the play offs and all without any FFP trouble. 

Why can't we do that?

We have a Cat 1 Academy to pay for too though.

[RevidgeBlue]

10 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

We have a Cat 1 Academy to pay for too though.

Net £1.3m p.a.

Less than Ayala's wages or slightly more than we paid Mulgrew not to play for us for each of the last 2 seasons.

Edited September 13, 2021 by RevidgeBlue

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

I've read your post twice but I don't follow the logic of it. What is the explanation, in your view, for Venkys not spending?

You've given your view on what it isn't so what is it?

I dont have an explanation, I just dont think that FFP is the only thing stopping them from being ambitious and engaging in a genuine attempt at moving the club forward. Nor do I leap to the illogical conclusion that Venkys dont trust Mowbray to the point whereby they give him no more money yet allow him to keep his job.

Venkys often lose interest to the point whereby they strip back any investment. 

[JHRover]

I really don't think it is a difficult one to understand. Mr and Mrs Desai control the pursestrings - the cash that comes in from the businesses in India. They'll pay the wages and running costs but will only go above and beyond that when someone persuades them to do so.

Usually that is when the manager gets on his plane to India, sits around for a few days waiting for an audience with them so he can put his proposals forward.

We've seen it under Kean, Bowyer and Mowbray - the three managers to recieve time and backing - that they had to do this every summer to get proper cash for players from the owners. They won't do it remotely and they won't come to the UK. Conversely Lambert and Coyle got no real cash to spend because they didn't go and meet them in India.

For one reason or another Mowbray hasn't had that opportunity now since 2019. That might be because of Covid restrictions, or it might be because the owners refused to meet with him. They wouldn't meet Bowyer in 2015 for one reason or another either which just so happened to coincide with them selling players, cutting costs and spending nothing.

They move in cycles - meet a manager who goes out there, tells them how fantastic they are, promises to do a good job and work very hard and that in a couple of years we should be getting money back on investments or pushing for promotion. When that time comes around and promotion hasn't been anywhere near there is a cutback.

This is the way Venkys work. Always has been.

 

[chaddyrovers]

52 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I really don't think it is a difficult one to understand. Mr and Mrs Desai control the pursestrings - the cash that comes in from the businesses in India. They'll pay the wages and running costs but will only go above and beyond that when someone persuades them to do so.

Isn't it now Balaji who runs the club now? and why Balaji's right hand man Pasha is here running the club as Balaji's rep here? 

@J*B, Didn't you say once that Pasha and Babu run Balaji's investments for him and he is the main owner now?

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Isn't it now Balaji who runs the club now? and why Balaji's right hand man Pasha is here running the club as Balaji's rep here? 

@J*B, Didn't you say once that Pasha and Babu run Balaji's investments for him and he is the main owner now?

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.

I think it is quite obvious that to get anything done it needs the approval of Mr and Mrs Desai.

It might be Balaji's toy but they pay for it, or at least the big expenses.

[bluebruce]

Possible explanations for why we have underperformed, thrown away points etc for a few years now, and rational conclusions as to what we should do about it.

1. Mowbray has misspent the budget. Ok, fire him.

2. Mowbray does most things fine but doesn't make good tactical choices, substitutions, and/or he over-rotates the squad. Ok, fire him.

3. The owners didn't trust him to spend money on a striker again this summer. Ahhh. Then fire him.

4. The squad doesn't have enough quality/depth. He signed most of them and has had years to assemble the team he wants, with at least a moderate Championship budget and minimal pressure to sell players. Fire him.

5. It's the players on the pitch who actually put the ball in the net or stop it going on. He can't be held responsible for them failing and conceding late goals on the day. He signed most of them, trains them, motivates them, picks the team. This has been happening for ages, it's not just a blip on the day. FIRE HIM.

6. The referees are against us. I hear this a lot, like after the Luton game where the ref should have sent our captain off after about 10 minutes, and incorrectly disallowed a Luton goal. The refs are terrible at this level, but it often cuts both ways. I do feel we get the worst of it more often, but I'm biased, and I've felt that way through my entire time as a Rovers supporter. Now is no different. Fire him.

7. He's just unlucky. We have 'dominated' so many games and not come away with points when we should have. Wow, that's really unlucky, because this has been happening for ages. Napoleon said something like I'd rather have lucky generals than skilled ones. I don't want such an 'unlucky' manager either. FIRE HIM!!

8. It's the fans' fault with their negativity. Loads of the fans are still happy clapping. The fans that are negative are negative because they've had to watch us miss opportunities to progress time after time. They've had enough of this manager, and even if it's the fans' fault (it isn't) then it's not changing any time soon without major improvements on the pitch and in club strategy. Mowbray's defenders sometimes say he doesn't kick the ball on the pitch. Well neither do we. It's easier to replace one man than thousands of fans. Fire. Him. Now.

[Paul Mellelieu]

6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Net £1.3m p.a.

Less than Ayala's wages or slightly more than we paid Mulgrew not to play for us for each of the last 2 seasons.

Thank you sir.  Do other EFL teams invest similar amounts?

[bluebruce]

7 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

We have a Cat 1 Academy to pay for too though.

It's exempt from FFP calculations.

[AJohnson]

Bizarre and pretty needless comments from Mowbray at 4 mins 25 seconds here. Initially having a conversation about the standard of referees before questioning the relevance of any of his critics and stating they should apply for his job when he's gone. 

Hardly ever been the most dynamic of characters when speaking to the press but he looks like a fella who's waiting to be put out of his misery. You're not the only one Tony...Time to go!!!

Edited September 13, 2021 by AJohnson

[bluebruce]

22 minutes ago, AJohnson said:

Bizarre and pretty needless comments from Mowbray at 4 mins 25 seconds here. Initially having a conversation about the standard of referees before questioning the relevance of any of his critics and stating they should apply for his job when he's gone. 

Hardly ever been the most dynamic of characters when speaking to the press but he looks like a fella who's waiting to be put out of his misery. You're not the only one Tony...Time to go!!!

Has a bit of cheek claiming referees need to be accountable. Considering he seems to be unaccountable himself, never offers to take responsibility for shocking runs of form or admits any errors in decision making, and as you say, suggested in the very same interview that it doesn't matter what people who don't do his job think. In that case why does it matter what anyone else thinks about referees?

[tomphil]

53 minutes ago, AJohnson said:

Bizarre and pretty needless comments from Mowbray at 4 mins 25 seconds here. Initially having a conversation about the standard of referees before questioning the relevance of any of his critics and stating they should apply for his job when he's gone. 

Hardly ever been the most dynamic of characters when speaking to the press but he looks like a fella who's waiting to be put out of his misery. You're not the only one Tony...Time to go!!!

Hes been like that for two whole years now and like some of our fans it looks like he thinks he's the only man in world football capable of managing this football club.

The championship Pep Guardiola with a hint of Jurgen Klopp thrown in.

Unbelievable.

Edited September 13, 2021 by tomphil

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Thank you sir.  Do other EFL teams invest similar amounts?

I'm guessing not many as there are only 23 or 24 Category 1 Academies in the Country.

Then again, how many Championship Clubs have had benefactors of the quality of Jack Walker to purchase and build such a fabulous facility for them for nowt?

And if any of them had been as fortunate as us in that respect, do you not think they'd treat said facility now as their Crown Jewel?

[tomphil]

Vs have chucked tens of millions upon tens of millions in the cover their mistakes and prop up the club. All that is undeniable but the club was an absolute steal and bargain for them in the beginming.

23 million + 16 million overdraft and 3 million outstanding to the Trust but all the facilities stadium, training ground and academy. Then Phil Jones, Chris Samba and Kalinic all sold for a combined total of what the club cost !

If only they actually knew what a gem they had bought.

[dallydally]

55 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Hes been like that for two whole years now and like some of our fans it looks like he thinks he's the only man in world football capable of managing this football club.

The championship Pep Guardiola with a hint of Jurgen Klopp thrown in.

Unbelievable.

He's a complete plonker!

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, AJohnson said:

Bizarre and pretty needless comments from Mowbray at 4 mins 25 seconds here. Initially having a conversation about the standard of referees before questioning the relevance of any of his critics and stating they should apply for his job when he's gone. 

Hardly ever been the most dynamic of characters when speaking to the press but he looks like a fella who's waiting to be put out of his misery. You're not the only one Tony...Time to go!!!

He's come across for the last two or three months of last season and this one as though he's absolutely gagging for a pay off.

I mean if replacing Nyambe with Gallagher at RB and then hooking off Gallagher as well 10 mins later doesn't give a clue .......... nothing does!

[darrenrover]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont get the loanee obsession. Of course based on Saturday, Dolan is part of it but the objective of tomorrow should be to select the team with the biggest chance of winning the game rather than obsessing over the contracts that they are on. We know that the contractual situation in general is piss poor but its a seperate issue going back to the owners. Would you drop Nyambe, Lenihan, Brereton and Rothwell?

The contract situation is fuck all to do with the owners, quite the contrary in fact!  It’s down to rank bad Management, end of.

That will be my only comment on the subject.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.

I think it is quite obvious that to get anything done it needs the approval of Mr and Mrs Desai.

It might be Balaji's toy but they pay for it, or at least the big expenses.

Who knows yet again. 

Balaji has his own money I believe and that's Pasha and Babu are around at Rovers these days.  and he was the one who signed the fans letter just before the Swansea game. 

 

[JHRover]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who knows yet again. 

Balaji has his own money I believe and that's Pasha and Babu are around at Rovers these days.  and he was the one who signed the fans letter just before the Swansea game. 

 

Babu has been around Rovers since day 1.

Pasha has been around since 2015 since when Mowbray has been to India and had meetings with Mr Desai.

I think it is just a convoluted mess. I don't doubt Balaji has the most 'interest' out of them but I still believe the ultimate purse strings are controlled by the Desai's, and it is the lack of meeting with them in India that sees things grind to a halt here, as it did from 2015-17 when no managers went to India.

Kean, Bowyer and Mowbray all knew the way to get things done and survive was to go to the ultimate power and that wasn't Balaji.

[darrenrover]

10 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

We have a Cat 1 Academy to pay for too though.

What’s that got to do with the price of a loaf of bread?

If you weren’t aware already, any expenditure on an Academy are totally excluded from expenditure calculations relative to FFP.

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Vs have chucked tens of millions upon tens of millions in the cover their mistakes and prop up the club. All that is undeniable but the club was an absolute steal and bargain for them in the beginming.

23 million + 16 million overdraft and 3 million outstanding to the Trust but all the facilities stadium, training ground and academy. Then Phil Jones, Chris Samba and Kalinic all sold for a combined total of what the club cost !

If only they actually knew what a gem they had bought.

Aye, if they knew what a gem they'd bought, they'd have polished it and paid for its proper maintenance, seeing its value soar as the market inflated. Instead, they've cut parts off it to sell, tacking bits of plastic on in place, and given it to the care of shysters and clowns, costing a fortune every year.

[bluebruce]

50 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who knows yet again. 

Balaji has his own money I believe and that's Pasha and Babu are around at Rovers these days.  and he was the one who signed the fans letter just before the Swansea game. 

 

Balaji has his own money, but I'd be beyond amazed if he has 'spunk 20 million up the wall every year and it not be an issue' kind of money. It's clear that the additional financing for the club comes from the ultimate parent company, Venkys, as well as the other companies they own and their land deals. Balaji isn't getting his hands on that money without the agreement of the others, in particular Mrs Desai.

I can fully believe that Balaji has been tasked with the majority of the 'management' (for want of a better word) of the project. He will be the one most expected to put in time and keep an eye on things (again, only insomuch as any of them bother to do that), feed back to the others when relevant, and will get the most blame from the others when things go wrong, or credit when it goes well (hah). It's always been his pet project.

But I'm in no doubt that major decisions and in particular, large funding decisions, will have to be approved by all of them as we have always heard before. Even if they give what he says extra weight. They're not going to let him siphon this 200 million they've put in, from a major company, without weighing in on those decisions.

Edited September 13, 2021 by bluebruce