Tony Mowbray Discussion

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

How do you know he does?

Even if he does, it doesn't suit him there. His strength is running at players and committing them in the final third. In front of the back 4, he isn't going to dictate games, he leaves gaps in front of the defence and his main strength is totally subdued.

Cos it's been said by himself in interviews and Mowbray. 

Playing deeper allow his more space to dictate games like he did against Swansea. 

So where would you play him then? 

 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos it's been said by himself in interviews and Mowbray. 

Playing deeper allow his more space to dictate games like he did against Swansea. 

So where would you play him then? 

 

I don't think he did dictates games, he isn't that type of player. He didn't dictate the game v Swansea, they had the ball and we just repeatedly pressed their idiotic playing out from the back tactics successfully, it wasn't a game won through Rothwell controlling it. He is someone who commits players and takes them on, something which is better further forward. He has disappointed this season but is not helped playing so deep.

I would have him further forward, either as one of the 2 further forward midfielders in a 3, or behind the striker.

[JohnGo]

46 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The same Howard Kendall that made 1-0 tight wins an art form? 

Half the fanbase would be screaming ‘anti-football’ if he rocked up here these days.

The same Howard Kendall that worked miracles on a bloody shoestring, how he would have loved £12m (at 1970’s values before you start moaning) to spend. We’d have walked the division. Oh I forgot what did he do at Everton when he moved there? Probably one of the three best managers of the decade with Bob and Brian. And a real gentleman who replied to a 22yr old supporter when at the start of his tenure we were not pulling up trees. Would Mowbray do that?

[Mattyblue]

Who you asking?  I obviously don’t disagree, that was the point of my post!

HK is exactly the kind of manager we need, maximum results for minimal outlay. My point being, too many fans these days have an obsession with ‘playing the right way’ over what is best for the club… there is only one ‘right way’, the way that leads to winning matches.

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't think he did dictates games, he isn't that type of player. He didn't dictate the game v Swansea, they had the ball and we just repeatedly pressed their idiotic playing out from the back tactics successfully, it wasn't a game won through Rothwell controlling it. He is someone who commits players and takes them on, something which is better further forward. He has disappointed this season but is not helped playing so deep.

I would have him further forward, either as one of the 2 further forward midfielders in a 3, or behind the striker.

Rothwell and Travis won tackles and controlled the midfielder and Buckley stopped Grimes from playing. 

I like him deeper allows his more space and he doesn't have to take them on every time. 

His defensive position against Barnsley was excellent and protect our back 4 with Travis. Having the same 2 I front of the back 4 and keeper maybe why we look better as a team defensively and team shape aswell

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

The same Howard Kendall that made 1-0 tight wins an art form? 

Half the fanbase would be screaming ‘anti-football’ if he rocked up here these days.

Strongly disagree.

The difference between Kendall and say Allardyce is that under Kendall we were winning every week or at least often enough to either be promoted or come within a gnat's chuff thereof. You can put up with a lot if you're winning every week.

Allardyce was a survival merchant whose only aim was to win enough games to get to forty points and certain other games were sacrificed as a result.

I didn't like the lack of integrity of not giving each match equal attention and your best shot. I was also of the view that if we were only clawing our way to survival every year anyway I'd rather be entertained.

I'd sooner have had 30 scrappy 1-0 wins and be winning it though.

[Mattyblue]

Not sure what you are disagreeing about. Sam as a lower division manager would be all about getting promotion. Which he did at numerous clubs. That is only done by winning match after match.

As a club with limited resources in the PL, his remit was obviously different, all about keeping the club up, you can argue with his methods in doing that, but it’s apples and oranges with managing a team wanting promotion.

[jim mk2]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 

Allardyce was a survival merchant whose only aim was to win enough games to get to forty points and certain other games were sacrificed as a result.

 

Not true. Look at his record at Bolton

Allardyce was preparing for us to kick on from being just "survival merchants". He had Lewandowski lined up before a volcanic dust cloud and then Venky's intervened.

He was pragmatic for sure, but his record speaks for itself. Getting rid of him was a huge mistake

 

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Not true. Look at his record at Bolton

Allardyce was preparing for us to kick on from being just "survival merchants". He had Lewandowski lined up before a volcanic dust cloud and then Venky's intervened.

He was pragmatic for sure, but his record speaks for itself. Getting rid of him was a huge mistake

 

Lewandowski was lined up but Dortmund wanted him too. 

Also how did Venkys intervened when they didn't buy the club for 6 months late? 

Also how was Allardyce preparing us to kick on from Survival merchants when that summer he wanted to quit for a club in the Middle East(source is his own Autobiography) He wanted John Williams to let him go that summer. I wish we had to be honest. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[oldjamfan1]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lewandowski was lined up but Dortmund wanted him too. 

Also how did Venkys intervened when they didn't buy the club for 6 months late? 

They sacked him chaddy, before he got a chance to move us to the next stage. I should have thought that was obvious?

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

The managerial bar is lower than I can ever remember it, all this talk of Neill and Hughton - Both abject failures whilst working under similar circumstances as Mowbray, why on earth would we want either of those 2 here?

I get the Wilder links, but I fear he's beyond on means, but these 2? doesn't make sense, you're replacing one failure with another.

 

Come off it Gav. 

I know our unexpectedly good start and Hughton's demise at Forest fits perfectly with your "no-one could possibly manage the Club as well as Mowbray routine" but to call Neill an abject failure is simply wrong.

He did at least as well as Mowbray if not better on a fraction of the budget at Preston. Yet you call Neill an abject failure whilst depicting Mowbray as doing the best he possibly can.

Things also don't work out for certain managers at specific Clubs. That was the case with Hughton at Forest. Overall though, his record is far better than Mowbray's.

As for Mowbray, as long as we keep our head above water this season I don't suppose he will be replaced and will be allowed to see his contract out. Then hopefully we can kick on with a new regime on and off the pitch to get  us out of the mess Mowbray and Waggott have left us in.

As to whether he SHOULD be replaced regardless in the meantime the answer is still a resounding "hell yes" if the right man was available and willing to come. Every newmanagerial appointment represents a gamble to varying degrees but it's as plain as day we'll never ever achieve any success at this level with Mowbray in charge.

 

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, oldjamfan1 said:

They sacked him chaddy, before he got a chance to move us to the next stage. I should have thought that was obvious?

He wanted out months before they took over. Don't forget that fact. Wanted to move to a club in Middle East. Wonder why?

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lewandowski was lined up but Dortmund wanted him too. 

Also how did Venkys intervened when they didn't buy the club for 6 months late? 

Also how was Allardyce preparing us to kick on from Survival merchants when that summer he wanted to quit for a club in the Middle East(source is his own Autobiography) He wanted John Williams to let him go that summer. I wish we had to be honest. 

Had that happened, then Kean could have come in sooner and got us relegated a season earlier.

[RevidgeBlue]

15 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Not true. Look at his record at Bolton

Allardyce was preparing for us to kick on from being just "survival merchants". He had Lewandowski lined up before a volcanic dust cloud and then Venky's intervened.

He was pragmatic for sure, but his record speaks for itself. Getting rid of him was a huge mistake

 

It was the Walkers who refused to stump up the money for Lewandowski.

All this talk about a volcanic dust cloud is Sam bigging himself up and making himself sound unlucky.

[jim mk2]

It's funny how you get a sense of foreboding with certain events in life. Perhaps it's old age or experience from previous bad events but when something doesn't feel right, it usually isn't. The day Rovers sacked Allardyce I knew we'd get relegated and that it was the beginning of the end for us as a Premier League club. My gut feeling that was correct. 

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

The managerial bar is lower than I can ever remember it, all this talk of Neill and Hughton - Both abject failures whilst working under similar circumstances as Mowbray, why on earth would we want either of those 2 here?

I get the Wilder links, but I fear he's beyond on means, but these 2? doesn't make sense, you're replacing one failure with another.

 

He wasn't beyond forest's means.  Talks just didn't quite work out 

[jim mk2]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It was the Walkers who refused to stump up the money for Lewandowski.

All this talk about a volcanic dust cloud is Sam bigging himself up and making himself sound unlucky.

Not true

Lewandowski in a 2017 interview

"I could not fly to Blackburn because of the volcano but I wanted to go there just to see what the club is like because I didn't know back then where I was going because if I travelled there, I would then know which is the best club for me.

"Maybe if I went there and saw the club, the stadium and everything, it would have become my first choice".

[RevidgeBlue]

19 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Not true. Look at his record at Bolton

Allardyce was preparing for us to kick on from being just "survival merchants". He had Lewandowski lined up before a volcanic dust cloud and then Venky's intervened.

He was pragmatic for sure, but his record speaks for itself. Getting rid of him was a huge mistake

 

Interesting hypothetical, if you offered Allardyce the sort of salary and budget to try and get us promoted that he accepts annually to keep Clubs in the PL, would he take it?

Probably not, as he's already turned that chance down at WBA.

If you offered it to say Hughes, I'd wager you'd get a different response.

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's funny how you get a sense of foreboding with certain events in life. Perhaps it's old age or experience from previous bad events but when something doesn't feel right, it usually isn't. The day Rovers sacked Allardyce I knew we'd get relegated and that it was the beginning of the end for us as a Premier League club. My gut feeling that was correct. 

We'd have gone down with the Walkers and Allardyce eventually anyway. Not even he would have been able to keep us up with no budget.

Venky's did however hasten the process massively with their initial decision making.

What was required at the time was a better manager than Allardyce which was well within Venky's means at the time.

[RevidgeBlue]

33 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Not sure what you are disagreeing about. Sam as a lower division manager would be all about getting promotion. Which he did at numerous clubs. That is only done by winning match after match.

As a club with limited resources in the PL, his remit was obviously different, all about keeping the club up, you can argue with his methods in doing that, but it’s apples and oranges with managing a team wanting promotion.

I was only disagreeing with your point that half the fans would moan about appointing the modern day HK.

I'd say not, as we'd be winning most weeks.

I compared and contrasted Allardyce as I presumed that was where the rationale for your point came from.

[Wheelton Blue]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rothwell and Travis won tackles and controlled the midfielder and Buckley stopped Grimes from playing. 

Wasn't it Grimes who repeatedly kept pinging balls out to their left side whilst we were backs to the wall for the second half?

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

The managerial bar is lower than I can ever remember it, all this talk of Neill and Hughton - Both abject failures whilst working under similar circumstances as Mowbray, why on earth would we want either of those 2 here?

I get the Wilder links, but I fear he's beyond on means, but these 2? doesn't make sense, you're replacing one failure with another.

 

Think Wilder in danger of thinking he's 'too big' - a number of clubs are understood to have had a nibble including us, WBA and Forest. 

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Think Wilder in danger of thinking he's 'too big' - a number of clubs are understood to have had a nibble including us, WBA and Forest. 

Yep, you soon get forgotten when you're out of the game.

[jim mk2]

30 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We'd have gone down with the Walkers and Allardyce eventually anyway. Not even he would have been able to keep us up with no budget.

Venky's did however hasten the process massively with their initial decision making.

What was required at the time was a better manager than Allardyce which was well within Venky's means at the time.

Known unknowns presented as fact in the first sentence. Who knows what would have happened if the Walkers had been unable to sell?

It was clearly beyond Venky's means to appoint a "better manager" because they hadn't a clue what they were getting in to. They didn't even adhere to the maxim of "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Allardyce with Venky's money to spend would have been the best scenario of all

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

59 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Had that happened, then Kean could have come in sooner and got us relegated a season earlier.

Where Venkys in talks to even buy the club at that time. Not so sure of that but Kean might not had even been at the club if the new manager had sack him. 

Doesn't stop the fact that summer Allardyce wanted to quit the club for a Middle East Club. Simple as

21 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Think Wilder in danger of thinking he's 'too big' - a number of clubs are understood to have had a nibble including us, WBA and Forest. 

Forest never made a move for Wilder from what I understand. Cooper was their 1st choice and he fits in with the New CEO Dane Murphy statistical approach, younger players approach and bringing through Young players. 

Wilder held talks with WBA sporting director Luke Dowling but then their owner/CEO stop it and sacked Downing and appointed Ismael from Barnsley instead