Tony Mowbray Discussion

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

The reason why the budget so low is because of the money wasted in previous seasons.Instead of him using the budget to extend players contracts during the first pandemic (players who didn't play) maybe he should have been asking for that money to be put towards a new deal for Nyambe at the time.

Mowbray has repeatedly said that he would like the current players to be given extended deals and regularly mentions the idea of selling players at a profit and then reinvesting part of that windfall, which should be the policy. He has also (as well as Waggott) mentioned the strict wage ceiling which has been enforced above his head that is preventing those players from signing on. He has just made 8 figures worth of profit on one of his signings, if the owners allowed just a little flexibility in slightly moving that ceiling up, they could then sell on some of those assets down the line and financially benefit. Sadly, they don't have a plan.

When those players contracts were renewed, it was a very strange decision and compounded by the decision by Waggott and presumably those above to refuse refunds on season ticket holders, it felt like a slap in the face. But for an extra month, it would have been small fry overall if you compare it to the potential budget to sign players, and that strict ceiling would still remain.

I don't get how is to blame for the uncompetitive budget of this season. I take on board and share the criticism aimed his way at the state of the squad going into the summer, 100%. But why is he to blame for the uncompetitive budget this time? FFP regulations? Something that regularly crops up but Mowbray/Waggott never once really mentioned it in regards to the low budget. A lack of trust? In which case, why is Mowbray still manager?

[DE.]

As far as the club's finances are concerned that responsibility lies solely with the owners and Waggott. Mowbray can recommend players to sign and contracts he would like extended, but it is up to the owners and the CEO to decide if his recommendations fit in with the club's overall vision from a financial perspective. 

People above Mowbray should be assessing the viability of spending £7m on BBD or £5m on Sam Gallagher and asking if that money is being spent responsibly and whether it could cause problems further down the line. Ditto with contact extensions, pay rises, etc. 

However, the club seems to have no obvious vision or structure. Instead, as always, the responsibility for all of these areas is heaped on the manager's shoulders. This not only creates an issue whereby the manager is being asked to perform duties that should be beyond his remit, but also means that if the manager is removed from his position the club's entire vision is removed along with it and we have to start from scratch. It's a massively flawed model that we've more or less been operating with for the entirety of Venky's tenure, save for the periods where the likes of Shebby, Agnew, Shaw and Senior briefly appeared to give the impression some sort of structure was being implemented. Ultimately these appointments simply ended up causing even more chaos, however, as there appears to be no real direction from the very top. 

Mowbray needs to go, but even when he eventually does nothing much will change until the root cause of our decline is addressed - that being the owners' inability to implement a structure at the club which allows every part of the operation to function correctly. As long as we continue to rely on the first team manager to set the direction of the entire club we will go nowhere.  

[Wheelton Blue]

24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't get how is to blame for the uncompetitive budget of this season. 

Perhaps it's something to do with him needlessly spunking millions and hence the FFP well has run dry?

It's on him and Waggott. No one else.

[islander200]

51 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray has repeatedly said that he would like the current players to be given extended deals and regularly mentions the idea of selling players at a profit and then reinvesting part of that windfall, which should be the policy. He has also (as well as Waggott) mentioned the strict wage ceiling which has been enforced above his head that is preventing those players from signing on. He has just made 8 figures worth of profit on one of his signings, if the owners allowed just a little flexibility in slightly moving that ceiling up, they could then sell on some of those assets down the line and financially benefit. Sadly, they don't have a plan.

When those players contracts were renewed, it was a very strange decision and compounded by the decision by Waggott and presumably those above to refuse refunds on season ticket holders, it felt like a slap in the face. But for an extra month, it would have been small fry overall if you compare it to the potential budget to sign players, and that strict ceiling would still remain.

I don't get how is to blame for the uncompetitive budget of this season. I take on board and share the criticism aimed his way at the state of the squad going into the summer, 100%. But why is he to blame for the uncompetitive budget this time? FFP regulations? Something that regularly crops up but Mowbray/Waggott never once really mentioned it in regards to the low budget. A lack of trust? In which case, why is Mowbray still manager?

I do believe we are on the brink of breaking the ffp rules, granted we brought on 15 million for Armstrong but it was with 2 weeks left of the window and with ouu wages to turnover running the way it was I don't see how we couldn't be close to breaking the rules.Plus didn't chaddy put up how much the owners have put in over the last couple of seasons and ffp preventing anymore owner funding?

 

Money has been mismanaged.The owners had no problem paying for Bennets and Mulgrews new deals.No.problem making Sam Gallagher one of our biggest earners and paying a five million fee.

 I'm not suggesting that the owners would spend freely but up to this summer he has had adequate funding.

If the budget had been a bit healthier we would have seen Evans and Bennett with new deals.

Mowbray has made some good signings Dack and Armstrong etc but he has wasted an awful lot stupidly.

Even though our budget Iimited still feel it's been wasted, the loans might be on the cheaper side but they all add together,they are all similar types.Did we need both Poveda and Khedra?Did we need Clarkson?We couldn't have loaned a more physical type?

Aberdeen manager confirmed we had 500k Turned down for Hedges.So there was some money available.But again the people on the ground can't get the deals done.

Even last season all the loan deals,we brought in 11 players last summer, they add up.Maybe if he could play with a smaller squad we would have got a couple of permanent signings rather than half a dozen loan signings.

The owners give a budget and he works around that budget.He wants as big a squad as he can so fills it with loans.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by islander200

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

I do believe we are on the brink of breaking the ffp rules, granted we brought on 15 million for Armstrong but it was with 2 weeks left of the window and with ouu wages to turnover running the way it was I don't see how we couldn't be close to breaking the rules.Plus didn't chaddy put up how much the owners have put in over the last couple of seasons and ffp preventing anymore owner funding?

 

Money has been mismanaged.The owners had no problem paying for Bennets and Mulgrews new deals.No.problem making Sam Gallagher one of our biggest earners and paying a five million fee.

 I'm not suggesting that the owners would spend freely but up to this summer he has had adequate funding.

If the budget had been a bit healthier we would have seen Evans and Bennett with new deals.

Mowbray has made some good signings Dack and Armstrong etc but he has wasted an awful lot stupidly.

Even though our budget Iimited still feel it's been wasted, the loans might be on the cheaper side but they all add together,they are all similar types.Did we need both Poveda and Khedra?Did we need Clarkson?We couldn't have loaned a more physical type?

Aberdeen manager confirmed we had 500k Turned down for Hedges.So there was some money available.But again the people on the ground can't get the deals done.

Even last season all the loan deals,we brought in 11 players last summer, they add up.Maybe if he could play with a smaller squad we would have got a couple of permanent signings rather than half a dozen loan signings.

The owners give a budget and he works around that budget.He wants as big a squad as he can so fills it with loans.

 

 

 

 

 

Ultimately we are all somewhat speculating and estimating no matter how much some profess otherwise but that would mean that we would have been over 10/15m over FFP regulations prior to the Armstrong sale. 

I don't doubt that Mowbray's spending has been far from 100% efficient. Gallagher is the stand out mistake, not very good, big fee and big wages. Often criticised a lack of ruthlessness upon promotion when he dished out new deals too. I don't doubt that he played a big part in coming into the summer with a poor squad, and based on last season he shouldn't be here, but he has been very restricted by an uncompetitive budget this season, and it is not Mowbray's fault that he got such a restrictive budget, he isn't in charge of the purse strings, and being so restrictive will actually impede us financially when assets leave for free, so it is short sighted by Venkys. The lines have been about how tough it has been in India and putting the breaks on the journey, the FFP reason in the main has come solely from supporters, surely if we was so far over regulations, Waggott in particular and even Mowbray would have regularly brought it out as an excuse throughout the summer, but they didn't.

He does want as a big a squad as he can but even by loaning 4 in, the squad is still very thin and massively depleted in numbers compared to last season and we are struggling to name a squad with just a few injuries.

[ewoody]

pressure is now starting to show on Mowbray.

 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, ewoody said:

pressure is now starting to show on Mowbray.

 

Fuckin hell

[1864roverite]

Are some forgetting the budget was seriously affected by a lack of income to the club? That has had a huge affect on budgetary issues. In addition there are claims of excessive salaries again it’s speculation and misinformation Rovers have a salary ceiling and do not pay above it so Gally is not on the huge wages as some suggest he is !

The Armstrong Income will reflect in this seasons figures and again for some to suggest money wasn’t made available to spend it’s speculation and misinformation. Deals were agreed but players failed medical examinations!

FFP is another area where misinformation and speculation causes adverse reactions from supporters Rovers have not exceeded the proposed limits of losses and are clear of ffp Pitfalls. I am pretty sure we won’t fall into the ffp Issues this year because cash flow is back in the menu as is sponsorship and other lines of income.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Ultimately we are all somewhat speculating and estimating no matter how much some profess otherwise but that would mean that we would have been over 10/15m over FFP regulations prior to the Armstrong sale. 

I don't doubt that Mowbray's spending has been far from 100% efficient. Gallagher is the stand out mistake, not very good, big fee and big wages. Often criticised a lack of ruthlessness upon promotion when he dished out new deals too. I don't doubt that he played a big part in coming into the summer with a poor squad, and based on last season he shouldn't be here, but he has been very restricted by an uncompetitive budget this season, and it is not Mowbray's fault that he got such a restrictive budget, he isn't in charge of the purse strings, and being so restrictive will actually impede us financially when assets leave for free, so it is short sighted by Venkys. The lines have been about how tough it has been in India and putting the breaks on the journey, the FFP reason in the main has come solely from supporters, surely if we was so far over regulations, Waggott in particular and even Mowbray would have regularly brought it out as an excuse throughout the summer, but they didn't.

He does want as a big a squad as he can but even by loaning 4 in, the squad is still very thin and massively depleted in numbers compared to last season and we are struggling to name a squad with just a few injuries.

The Aberdeen manager confirmed a 500k bid was turned down for Hedges and it was after the Edun deal that bid was made.

Not a fortune but shows there was some money.The deal to take Maja on loan with an option was on again further proof there was some funds available.

Why would Mowbray and Waggott use being close to FFP as an excuse?It will be down to their mismanagement of the playing budget and Waggots failure to bring in income as to why we would be so close to the limit

Edited October 5, 2021 by islander200

[DeeCee]

Bash Mowbray thread,  he should have gone 2 seasons ago if the owners had any ambition, knowledge, good advice, sense, affinity, etc etc etc. He could be here for 3 more years, god forbid. 👎

[davulsukur]

Didn't someone say he was off to India during this break?

Chances he'll come back with a new contract?

[matt83]

13 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Didn't someone say he was off to India during this break?

Chances he'll come back with a new contract?

Yeah. I can see him walking into ewood like this. 

[matt83]

Want to lose £20 million a year and never lay a glove on the play offs. Who are you gonna call…

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

Didn't someone say he was off to India during this break?

Chances he'll come back with a new contract?

Think chaddy said that "it was his understanding" that he was.

Rich Sharpe seems to disagree though.

[JHRover]

6 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Are some forgetting the budget was seriously affected by a lack of income to the club? That has had a huge affect on budgetary issues. In addition there are claims of excessive salaries again it’s speculation and misinformation Rovers have a salary ceiling and do not pay above it so Gally is not on the huge wages as some suggest he is !

The Armstrong Income will reflect in this seasons figures and again for some to suggest money wasn’t made available to spend it’s speculation and misinformation. Deals were agreed but players failed medical examinations!

FFP is another area where misinformation and speculation causes adverse reactions from supporters Rovers have not exceeded the proposed limits of losses and are clear of ffp Pitfalls. I am pretty sure we won’t fall into the ffp Issues this year because cash flow is back in the menu as is sponsorship and other lines of income.

I'm confused. 

What 'lack of income' did we have last year compared to any other club in the League? Why have we been so seriously affected by this whereas others haven't had to slash back on their spending?

Also, the sale of Armstrong will have cleared the vast majority of those losses, no?

You mention FFP as though this is something we have avoided, but I thought we were under an embargo earlier this year?

The bulk of our income continued to flow during Covid. We still had sponsorship, merchandise and most importantly media income. The thing we missed out on was ticket money, but we refused refunds on that so this was limited to the season 2020-21. Given we couldn't be bothered putting season tickets on sale until mid-September and then bizarrely decided to increase prices during a pandemic I think that tells us all we need to know about how important that area of income is.

[47er]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't doubt that Mowbray's spending has been far from 100% efficient.

Well that's one way of putting it!

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Think chaddy said that "it was his understanding" that he was.

Rich Sharpe seems to disagree though.

I've given Sharpe a lot of gip on here for various things but there is a reason why he is in all probability correct on that point.

If Waggott also thought there was a possibility that him and Mowbray could have hopped on a plane to dicuss a new contract for Tony then that fills me with hope that they're both completely out of the loop.

The sooner he goes the better though. OIther than saving a few quid in compensation there's absolutely no benefit to having him around. The sooner a new man can come in and properly assess the squad and start to rebuild the better.

[gumboots]

21 hours ago, booth said:

Kenny didn't need to shout a lot. He used to find somewhere to stand so they could see him, they knew he was watching and they could be out if they delivered a shoddy performance.




 

Would have been no point in shouting. According to a former player, nobody understood a word he said in training anyway and they just used to do what they thought he meant and rely on the coaches to put them right

[oldjamfan1]

18 hours ago, ewoody said:

pressure is now starting to show on Mowbray.

 

He’s not unlike Tugay 😱😂

[roverandout]

Is that mowbray's wife 

[Oldgregg86]

20 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Fuckin hell

I said that out loud when I seen it then scrolled down 😂

[Lucimo]

15 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Think chaddy said that "it was his understanding" that he was.

Rich Sharpe seems to disagree though.

Chaddy was adamant too. Said he trusted his 'source'. Probably nicko 

[Tom]

Maybe they were going to go, maybe it was less appealing for them after a couple of losses mind you 

[booth]

2 hours ago, gumboots said:

Would have been no point in shouting. According to a former player, nobody understood a word he said in training anyway and they just used to do what they thought he meant and rely on the coaches to put them right

Which is weird because in all of his interviews I could understand him perfectly.

I was once in the changing room for that Premier League winning team and no one seemed to have any problems understanding or communicating with Kenny, who was in high spirits. Ray Harford unsurprisingly, seemed bloody depressed.

[JacknOry]

Met Kenny and his family, including the (back then) gorgeous Kelly (about my age at the time too) and his son Paul when on holiday in La Manga the season after we won the league. Only spoke to him for a few minutes but I never had any trouble understanding him.

And no, I did not manage to pull Kelly, though she did comment on the Joop aftershave I was wearing.