Tony Mowbray Discussion

[chaddyrovers]

11 minutes ago, Doogs said:

Chaddyrovers. I respect you for still going

Thankyou very much. 

11 minutes ago, Doogs said:

but i have packed it in this season. 

Very sorry to hear this. 

12 minutes ago, Doogs said:

Where was Carter yesterday. Why does Butterworth not get a game? Are these loan players any better? 

I don't know if Carter was too ill to be on bench. 

Butterworth agreed and would like to see more of him. 

Khadra has been the best of the loan players and give us a different options wide. Poveda and Clarkson haven't been good enough. Van Hecke first game yesterday 

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The championship is not piss pot league at all but a league that is very competitive and enjoyable to watch where anyone can beat anyone. 

Also instead of saying majority of fans let say its not what you want to support the club for. 

Sorry but the buck doesn't stop with Mowbray over new contracts and he has very little part in the contract negotiations to be honest. Waggott does them. Plus you don't factor that most championship clubs have financial reset and not willing to over pay players and in fact cut the budgets and be less reliant on the owners money. 

I think he is far from shit manager and he was excellent for the club in the 3 years of his reign given the totally mess that Coyle left us after his sacking. 

Mercer, well in all fairness you have been predicting this for the last 9/10 months now and quite frankly its been pathetic to keep reading. Another one of your prediction that never happened. 

I have always said since the summer that I suspect that November international break would be where they decide to stick or twist with Mowbray and his future here, 

I wonder where Alex Neil is on his longest walk to Ewood Park manager seat we seen ever? Thats must be one long route to the club.  

I'd rather watch the grass grow than some of the turgid stuff I think Mowbray has served up in the Championship.

Think it's fair to say Rovers have lost approx. half their fan base (including season tickets) over the years and that tells you all you need to know about your 'enjoyable Championship' and the performances and attainment levels delivered by Mowbray.

Fact - players will sign for a decent manager who they see fired with ambition and purpose.  I think likes of Nyambe, Lenihan, Rothwell, Brereton  etc can see through Mowbray's journey and find it underwhelming.

So you think Mowbray was excellent for his first three years - for God's sake we were relegated under the man when, by his own admission to fans at Blues' Bar some two years ago, he was appointed to keep us up.  Failure - full stop.  I don't think Warnock would think he'd done an excellent job if he was appointed to keep a club up and ended up getting them relegated!

I've told you so many times Alex Neill would not be my choice!  However, I think the chances of him being Rovers' manager at Christmas are higher than Mowbray's and if there was a market for this then I would be putting a big bet on it - read into that what you want. Just remember this point and when I said it!

Edited October 17, 2021 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Waggott is to blame for a lot of things, I am not sure that contract struggles due to lack of finance are amongst those really. He said that we have offered them as much as "we can" so the restrictions come back to the bastards in India who don't seem to realise that for a few thousand each, we likely will allow most of our better players and assets to leave for free which will probably if history is to be believed lead to relegation again at some point.

Didn't blame Waggott tho in my post did I? 

Like I said with football at most  Championship and below clubs having a financial reset and cutting budgets, players will look to for the best wages they can. We have our wage budget and we have to keep to it. Players like Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe have a big decision to make. Stick or twist. But for me, Rovers should be scouting for replacements and players who are our of contract like John Souttar and Jo Kenny from Everton next summer

[Mattyblue]

37 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It was posted on here by several different posters. Why would they posted factually incorrectly information? 

 

They are passing on what they heard, so is obviously second/third hand info. So of course it isn’t a verified ‘fact’ when then posted on an Internet forum. All kids of gossip leaks out of football clubs.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Doogs]

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thankyou very much. 

Very sorry to hear this. 

I don't know if Carter was too ill to be on bench. 

Butterworth agreed and would like to see more of him. 

Khadra has been the best of the loan players and give us a different options wide. Poveda and Clarkson haven't been good enough. Van Hecke first game yesterday 

Thank You..

[unsall]

Looks as though McCarthy could be next for the chop, another supposedly top championship manager who it’s not working out.

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Didn't blame Waggott tho in my post did I? 

Like I said with football at most  Championship and below clubs having a financial reset and cutting budgets, players will look to for the best wages they can. We have our wage budget and we have to keep to it. Players like Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe have a big decision to make. Stick or twist. But for me, Rovers should be scouting for replacements and players who are our of contract like John Souttar and Jo Kenny from Everton next summer

Cutting budgets and losing all your assets on frees as a result. I very much doubt that if we are working under such strict caps, that these free agents who will have a pick of potential clubs would come here for the same reason that these players are leaving in the first place.

[jim mk2]

Steve Bruce likely to be available soon. Good record operating at clubs with little or no money and if he’s still got the appetite for the game I’d be after him if I were in charge. But I’m not so it was pretty pointless posting this. I thenk you 

 

 

 

[roversfan99]

I think Steve Bruce (this may be outdated or simply totally wrong) has the most promotions from the Championship out of anybody.

[oldjamfan1]

I would take Bruce in a heartbeat

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

I'd rather watch the grass grow than some of the turgid stuff I think Mowbray has served up in the Championship.

Well I hope you forward to the grass growing in the winter Mercer, 

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Think it's fair to say Rovers have lost approx. half their fan base (including season tickets) over the years and that tells you all you need to know about your 'enjoyable Championship' and the performances and attainment levels delivered by Mowbray.

Each fan has made they made their choice whether to give up going and not renew or Keep going to games and buying a season ticket. The appointment of Ince or Kean or Coyle never forced me away from attending Ewood Park and no manager appointment would to be honest

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Fact - players will sign for a decent manager who they see fired with ambition and purpose.  I think likes of Nyambe, Lenihan, Rothwell, Brereton  etc can see through Mowbray's journey and find it underwhelming.

Maybe you have forget that most championship clubs have a finiancial reset and looking to cut their budget. 

Brereton I suspect will move to PL club like Newcastle or a Spanish club in the summer for around 20 million pounds. 

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

So you think Mowbray was excellent for his first three years - for God's sake we were relegated under the man

I put the most of the blame on Coyle and the squad he assemble that summer. Of Course you won't blame that dingle tho. 

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

I've told you so many times Alex Neill would not be my choice!  However, I think the chances of him being Rovers' manager at Christmas are higher than Mowbray's and if there was a market for this then I would be putting a big bet on it - read into that what you want. Just remember this point and when I said it!

Mercer, like you keep saying time after time like your "tipping point" posts over the years. Its never happened and I serious doubt this one will.  You been saying it for 10 months and quite frankly He must been on on very long walking route to Ewood Park to join us. Though at least he getting plenty of exercise tho

I have said that we need a modern day coach who is good with tactics, training and will keep bringing through the good young players we have at academy level. Steve Cooper would have been the ideal candidate before he joined Forest. It would be interesting to see who Rovers would go if we have a managerial vacancy and the type of manager/head coach we would go for.  

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

Coyle was a shocking manager but as per most managers at some point of their reign under Venkys, the budget he was given was not competitive. He had to sell his main 2 players in Hanley and Duffy for close to 10m, from a team to which most of its assets had already been sold mainly for cheap. He was given a pathetic 250k to reinvest and had to assemble a team of freebies and loanees. He actually made 3 or 4 useful signings amidst some dross but obviously his general incompetence meant that from the patched up squad, there was no chance that he would have it organised and fit.

The same thing happened to Bowyer when the team was sold one by one and he had to sign freebies under an embargo, the same thing happened to Mowbray selling Armstrong and having to fill 12 squad places with only a cheap Lincoln left back and 4 cheap kids on loan deals, Lambert needed to sell Rhodes and only could bring in loans and cheap deals.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, unsall said:

Looks as though McCarthy could be next for the chop, another supposedly top championship manager who it’s not working out.

Another manager who is finding tough this season just like Hughton and Warnock have this season. 

I think we need go for younger modern coach who is good tactician and can sort the defence out. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Cutting budgets and losing all your assets on frees as a result. I very much doubt that if we are working under such strict caps, that these free agents who will have a pick of potential clubs would come here for the same reason that these players are leaving in the first place.

Football at this level is having a football reset financially and clubs don't have the same amount of money as before the pre pandemic times. 

Rovers have signed players who want to come and play football for the right reasons and not just for financial reasons. 

Would you sell Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell if they won't sign new contracts in January? then sign replacements for them

Edited October 17, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Another manager who is finding tough this season just like Hughton and Warnock have this season. 

I think we need go for younger modern coach who is good tactician and can sort the defence out. 

Football at this level is having a football reset financially and clubs don't have the same amount of money as before the pre pandemic times. 

Rovers have signed players who want to come and play football for the right reasons and not just for financial reasons. 

Would you sell Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell if they won't sign new contracts in January? then sign replacements for them

If we were unable to agree contracts with all 3, that would be piss poor, no excuses. If we sold all 3, I would fear relegation, you can't just remove so much of the experience in your team like that and not face the consequences. It would show where the club is heading, and that is not up.

[Waggy76]

53 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I would take Bruce in a heartbeat

When Bruce finally  gets his severance from Newcastle , I doubt he will manage again....

 

[oldjamfan1]

1 minute ago, Waggy76 said:

When Bruce finally  gets his severance from Newcastle , I doubt he will manage again....

 

Yeah you’re probably right - even leaving aside the fact he wouldn’t need the money he’ll need a break for sure after the madness of St James Park.

[chaddyrovers]

44 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If we were unable to agree contracts with all 3, that would be piss poor, no excuses. If we sold all 3, I would fear relegation, you can't just remove so much of the experience in your team like that and not face the consequences. It would show where the club is heading, and that is not up.

If they won't re-sign then can you blame the club really? not sure. We have offered them new improve contracts so we have to see what happens. 

But I do think the club and the recruitment team have to be scouting permanent replacements for each of them. Like last week link with Hearts centre back John Souttar. 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

If they won't re-sign then can you blame the club really? 

Yes.

[JHRover]

The club and owners are responsible.

If our best players decide not to stay that tells us all we need to know.

Normally academy products who are first team regulars/captains would want to stay. They aren't getting PL interest so their alternative will be some other second division club.

Why would anyone with ambition want to stay here with this setup?

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Yes.

Thats why I have to disagree to a point cos it depends on their reasons why they won't re-sign here. if they have interest from clubs playing in a different country maybe they fancy a new challenge if the case of Rothwell or Nyambe

I have already accepted that Brereton wont be here next season and will move to a PL or Spanish top tier club and could you stop that happening really. 

I hope that the club is having contract discussions with Travis and Kaminski about new contracts aswell

Edited October 17, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thats why I have to disagree to a point cos it depends on their reasons why they won't re-sign here. if they have interest from clubs playing in a different country maybe they fancy a new challenge if the case of Rothwell or Nyambe

I have already accepted that Brereton wont be here next season and will move to a PL or Spanish top tier club and could you stop that happening really. 

I hope that the club is having contract discussions with Travis and Kaminski about new contracts aswell

Since the start of 2020 - approaching 2 years ago - which senior first team players have signed new deals?

Off the top of my head we have Dack (who who agreed his deal prior to getting his first serious injury) and Johnson (who I suspect had a clause in his deal for an extra 12 month extension on the same terms as his previous 2 years). Anyone else I've missed?

The others like Rothwell were forced to stay when the club activated 12 month extensions.

Other than that? Deals have been issued to JRC, Wharton and Buckley (who will have been on relative peanuts from their academy graduation and development into first team players)

Beyond that we've by our own admission offered new terms to Amari Bell and Elliott Bennett, who turned the offers down and instead moved to Luton Town and Shrewsbury respectively.

Waggott claims that we have been in discussions about new contracts with important players like Lenihan and Nyambe. 

Isn't it remarkable how each and every one of these players has a reason not to sign these terms supposedly being offered to them. Not a few players, or half and half, or 75%, but every player offered or in need of a new contract has failed to sign one. Remarkable. Maybe they have all been tapped up from elsewhere. Maybe they are all being greedy and making unreasonable demands.

Or - how about another theory - these players aren't being greedy or unreasonable and would happily sign on here but that Venkys have turned the taps off and will not authorise them? Or alternatively that Rovers have sat and done nothing for months and months like they did with everything else and are now paying the price?

So what if Nyambe wants a pay rise. I think most of us would agree it is deserved. His departure for free will cost the club a lot, lot more than a reasonable pay increase. It's a shame the idiots in charge don't see that but they will just try and replace him with a kid on loan. 

Now you're inventing the possibility of foreign interest in them as a reason why they are refusing to sign new deals. 

The lengths you will put yourself at to protect and make excuses for the proven liars running Rovers amuse me and frustrate me in equal measure. 

[chaddyrovers]

33 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Since the start of 2020 - approaching 2 years ago - which senior first team players have signed new deals?

Off the top of my head we have Dack (who who agreed his deal prior to getting his first serious injury) and Johnson (who I suspect had a clause in his deal for an extra 12 month extension on the same terms as his previous 2 years). Anyone else I've missed?

The others like Rothwell were forced to stay when the club activated 12 month extensions.

Other than that? Deals have been issued to JRC, Wharton and Buckley (who will have been on relative peanuts from their academy graduation and development into first team players)

I see new contracts for Buckley, Wharton, Dolan, JRC and Carter has key part for the future of our club as I see them being key players/main part of the squad in the coming years. You may not but I do. 

You keep saying that about Dack but there is zero suggestion from anyone else this is the case. 

33 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Beyond that we've by our own admission offered new terms to Amari Bell and Elliott Bennett, who turned the offers down and instead moved to Luton Town and Shrewsbury respectively.

Bennett wasn't offered new terms by the club and was always moving on. And to closer to home based where he lives in midlands and spend more time with his family. But we have discussed this all before JH so we are just repeating the same arguments again. 

33 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Or - how about another theory - these players aren't being greedy or unreasonable and would happily sign on here but that Venkys have turned the taps off and will not authorise them? Or alternatively that Rovers have sat and done nothing for months and months like they did with everything else and are now paying the price?

another conspiracy theory from you. 

We can't keep having a wage bill so high above the club turnover and run such huge losses each and every season. 

33 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Now you're inventing the possibility of foreign interest in them as a reason why they are refusing to sign new deals. 

Rothwell has had interested from Rangers according to the media. Plus they are within their rights to test the free market and not sign new deal and look for a new challenge with a new club. 

34 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The lengths you will put yourself at to protect and make excuses for the proven liars running Rovers amuse me and frustrate me in equal measure. 

And I would say the continuously posting from yourself that Rovers haven't done this or done this without any evidence is very frustrate to see you post time after time. like the one above. 

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I see new contracts for Buckley, Wharton, Dolan, JRC and Carter has key part for the future of our club as I see them being key players/main part of the squad in the coming years. You may not but I do. 

You keep saying that about Dack but there is zero suggestion from anyone else this is the case. 

Bennett wasn't offered new terms by the club and was always moving on. And to closer to home based where he lives in midlands and spend more time with his family. But we have discussed this all before JH so we are just repeating the same arguments again. 

another conspiracy theory from you. 

We can't keep having a wage bill so high above the club turnover and run such huge losses each and every season. 

Rothwell has had interested from Rangers according to the media. Plus they are within their rights to test the free market and not sign new deal and look for a new challenge with a new club. 

And I would say the continuously posting from yourself that Rovers haven't done this or done this without any evidence is very frustrate to see you post time after time. like the one above. 

I'm not sure what your point is re. the first paragraph. Whether they are big players for our future or not is irrelevant to the point I was making, which was that their contractual situations were such that they were effectively academy deals being upgraded to senior deals, not senior deals being extended or improved which is the issue with Lenihan, Nyambe and co.

Discussions were held with Bennett regarding a new deal:
https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2021/may/rovers-confirm-retain-list/

So it was certainly something we were considering or wanting to do, yet off he went to Shrewsbury. I've no issue with that but it is another example of a senior player that the club has tried or considered giving a deal to and not done. Pattern emerging.

There is as much evidence to support what I have said as there is to support what you have said. 

We come at things from different angles. You want to blindly support the party line and believe that good old Rovers are doing things properly, sensibly and that everything they do is correct. I take the polar opposite view - that the place is in crisis, run by liars and incompetents and owners who really shouldn't be here and everything stems from their neglect and mismanagement, and we are just in another phase of mayhem created by them.

You might be right, I don't think you are. Keep on putting FFP spreadsheets up it won't change my opinion. 

My beliefs aren't conspiracy theories anymore than yours are. Infact, on the weight of evidence over the last 10 years I think you are the conspiracy theorist making out that all is well with the world at Rovers when it plainly isn't. I don't trust a word they come out with.

Edited October 17, 2021 by JHRover

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

Discussions were held with Bennett regarding a new deal:
https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2021/may/rovers-confirm-retain-list/

So it was certainly something we were considering or wanting to do, yet off he went to Shrewsbury. 

Bennett was always leaving to move back closer to home and to have more time with his family. 

9 hours ago, JHRover said:

We come at things from different angles. You want to blindly support the party line and believe that good old Rovers are doing things properly, sensibly and that everything they do is correct. 

Yes we do come at things very different angles or way. But you are wrong on the party line cos I disagree with something I posted on here, email the club or sign a petition. I posted on here that I was completely and utterly against selling Brockhall or even moving any part of training ground away from its current location. Plus signed Rev's petition. I remember when a few posters complained on here about litter outside the Ewood Park grounds and area. I emailed Lysney Talbot at Rovers and emailed Blackburn with Darwen Council about it. Posted that I felt Rovers should have done much better with season tickets and match day tickets prices. 

So it's far from towing the club's party line. 

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

You might be right, I don't think you are. Keep on putting FFP spreadsheets up it won't change my opinion. 

FFP rules are clear and threshold is 39 millions pounds in losses allowed. How is that not right? 

 

[jim mk2]

17 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well I hope you forward to the grass growing in the winter Mercer,

 

Chaddy in sense of humour shock!!!!Not roll on the floor laughing but a good first effort

Keep it up!