Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mattyblue]

‘Nothing to do with the owners’

TM and Waggott employ themselves, I take it?

[islander200]

29 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I have no interest in another long winded and time consuming debate about this, but the assertion that Mowbray leaves Nyambe out whenever possible is as fictional as it is 2/3 seasons in the past, and much of the rest of your post is massively speculative, this supporter generated FFP obsession aimed specifically at Mowbray when the budgets come from well above the managers head, culminating in a desperate slur that the manager is simply lying.

Fictional?So when JRC was fit last year, i imagined Nyambe on the bench?

When there is another option then Nyambe isnt a shoe in to play.Mowbray has left him out loads.

He has had plenty of money as Revidge pointed out these deals should have been sorted out long ago.He brought 11 players to the club last summer and half of them didnt contribute much at all.The money used for those players could have been put toward new contracts.

The owners are allowed to put in a certain amount over 3 years and they have put that amount in.What income do we have?

So it isnt speculative that we are close to ffp at all.

Tell me where the money is coming from?The owners have put in what they are allowed.Thats a fact.

The owners had no problem signing off on a 4 year contract for Ainsley Pears...that money could and should been added to what we were offering Nyambe.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by islander200

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Absolute nonsense. So no I wont.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19525768.mowbrays-message-blackburn-rovers-fans-contract-renewals/

It is about money.

No, by his own admission in that article it's partly because Mowbray is claiming he isn't prepared to sanction offering said players anything beyond a so called wage ceiling so as not to upset everyone else.

I'm calling BS on that because again by his own admission they would have been prepared to completely ignore that in the case of Armstrong so the wage cap clearly isn't as inflexible as he is making out if they want to keep the player badly enough and it isn't the owners putting the block on it financially.

Also I would wager the likes of Nyambe and Rothwell will be on an absolute fraction of the likes of Ayala, Gallagher and Dack so to assume that they would be after parity or something in excess of those players is nonsense imo.

The only way in which I think you could say it was in any way the owners fault is by not sacking Waggott and Mowbray well before now.

If you were Rothwell and 27 and potentially considering your last really big career move, would you really want to sign for a lame duck manager like Mowbray?

Or if you were an outstanding talent like Nyambe and had been constantly shuttled in and out of the side by Mowbray behind inferior players, would you be busting a gut to re-sign for him either?

 

[RevidgeBlue]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Nothing to do with the owners’

TM and Waggott employ themselves, I take it?

No, but they employ Waggott and Mowbray to manage the football side of the Club on their behalf!!!

Not too unreasonable is it?

Mowbray made a decision he didn't want to upset the rest of the squad. And he also got us into FFP problems running a massively bloated squad full of dross like Bennett and Evans.

It's not the owners  withholding finance per se. Although yes, they should probably have noticed the situation and nipped it in the bud sooner. But then again , what are they paying Waggott and Mowbray for? It's up to them to keep us within FFP parameters and flag up any potential problems with the squad well before they happen giving the owners the option of what they then want to do.

[Mattyblue]

Yet they employ them, and countless others like them, for 11 bloody years!

These people obviously are just not cut out to own a football club, as actual improvement on the pitch, increasing revenue, increasing crowds etc etc - you know, just the standard at professional sport clubs, never seems a priority.

[islander200]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Yet they employ them, and countless others like them, for 11 bloody years!

These people obviously are just not cut out to own a football club, as actual improvement on the pitch, increasing revenue, increasing crowds etc etc - you know, just the standard at professional sport clubs, never seems a priority.

Agree with that.They have no buisness in football.

However for 300k a year our Ceo should be doing more.Look at the state around the ground in the summer.I dont believe Waggott would have to contact the owners to get permission for him to pay someone to do a bit of weeding and pick some litter up

[Mattyblue]

Of course you should expect a CEO to have a level of competence, nous, initiative etc etc, especially on that wage - but it is clear he has none of those qualities, yet they continue to employ him!

The buck stops with them, always.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course you should expect a CEO to have a level of competence, nous, initiative etc etc, especially on that wage - but it is clear he has none of those qualities, yet they continue to employ him!

The buck stops with them, always.

Aye iv never argued against the statement that our owners are incompetent.

My only argument is in the Mowbray and Waggott tenure they have been provided with sufficient funds for the squad not to ve in the state it is in.They have had plenty of money leading up to this season.

[Mattyblue]

So presumably they’ll be both out of a job by May?

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

So presumably they’ll be both out of a job by May?

I dont think they will be here next season 

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Will you get it through your head, the contract situation is nothing whatsoever to do with the owners!

Everything is to do with the owners.  If they want these players to sign surely they would look into why they are not signing.  Clearly they aren't sufficiently interested to look into it and that, for me, is why we will never progress with this bunch owning us.  Mowbray and Waggott will go but someone else will be brought in to manage the decline - the buck stops at the top and that's in Pune not at Ewood Park.

[islander200]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Although to be fair, if the owners allowed a competitive reinvestment of the transfer fee and huge wage savings of the summer, at least some of them could be signed longer term and be considered assets.

Rothwell has one year left on his contract.

Contract negotiations should have been taking place last summer not this one.

Money was available to give Pears a 4 year deal and to sign Ayala.If Mowbray wanted Rothwell tieing down then he should have been going to the owners for the money for that not giving a Boro reserve goalkeeper a 4 year contract.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Thinking ahead to the position the club will find themselves in at season end:

We'll likely once again end up somewhere in the bottom half.

Mowbray maybe gone, or maybe not. Who knows?

It's possible that we'll have lost some, if not all, of Nyambe, Rothwell, Lenihan for next to nothing.

It's possible that Brereton and Kaminski will be entering their final year, with a similar risk of losing them for nothing.

If a new guy does come in to take over, he'll likely be in a position where the squad once again needs significant investment and a massive overhaul.

Considering the fact that Mowbray will have been here for 5 years, but to be basically back where we started with him, is nothing short of pathetic. What a terrible legacy that would be.

I fully expect Mowbray will leave this season whether in the summer or sack during the season. Yes the new manager/head coach will need to make signings but that could attract a manager cos they will have decent budget and scope squad wise to bring in their own signings from day 1 of them coming in. Don't expect Waggott will leave either

I fully expect that Nyambe and Rothwell will be gone in January transfer window and Brereton and Kaminski will be sold in the summer. 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Although to be fair, if the owners allowed a competitive reinvestment of the transfer fee and huge wage savings of the summer, at least some of them could be signed longer term and be considered assets.

Haven't we been over this before with yourself and others several times already now? 

Yes Rovers have slashed the wage bill this season and I would guess around 30 to 40% given the players we released and the loans we had last season. But thats doesn't mean you over paid players and we have no idea what the players demands are but we know from the club has offered them new improved deals. 

You know the reasons why we couldn't reinvest the Armstrong's money! Do we need to really to go over that again?

Edited October 26, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I fully expect Mowbray will leave this season whether in the summer or sack during the season. Yes the new manager/head coach will need to make signings but that could attract a manager cos they will have decent budget and scope squad wise to bring in their own signings from day 1 of them coming in. Don't expect Waggott will leave either

I fully expect that Nyambe and Rothwell will be gone in January transfer window and Brereton and Kaminski will be sold in the summer. 

Haven't we been over this before with yourself and others several times already now? 

Yes Rovers have slashed the wage bill this season and I would guess around 30 to 40% given the players we released and the loans we had last season. But thats doesn't mean you over paid players and we have no idea what the players demands are but we know from the club has offered them new improved deals. 

You know the reasons why we couldn't reinvest the Armstrong's money! Do we need to really to go over that again?

We don't know if they will have anything to spend and most recent signs aren't good. The fact we can't tie down our best players and will end up losing money on them wouldn't look great to potential new managers? I think you over estimate our attractiveness to potential managers. We might get an Ainsworth, but could we attract a really exciting one? One who has other options. I have serious doubts. 

[chaddyrovers]

31 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We don't know if they will have anything to spend and most recent signs aren't good. The fact we can't tie down our best players and will end up losing money on them wouldn't look great to potential new managers? I think you over estimate our attractiveness to potential managers. We might get an Ainsworth, but could we attract a really exciting one? One who has other options. I have serious doubts. 

Like I said before, we lose the first year of our championship spending where we spent nearly 10 million pounds plus I expect Brereton and Kaminski will leave this season. 

I think we would be attractive option to a Chris Wilder given the scope he would have for his own signings, the stadium, training facilities and He would be allow to bring in own staff. 

Yes I think Ainsworth would be able to attract signings that would fit into his tactics and style of play.   

 

[Gone to seed]

Shock, horror, send for the head-doctor - I may be about to revise my opinion of Mr Tony Mowbray...

I was talking to none other than Mick McCarthy today, and commiserating with him about his very recent experience with the Bluebirds. We chatted about the 5-1 reverse they'd suffered at Ewood, and he was saying that football is a strange business, as Cardiff had hit the post and had Nyambe clear off the line before we went on the scoring rampage at the other end, and if their two chances had been converted then maybe the score would have been reversed.

Anyway, he seemed very chilled at the prospect of having more time with his grandchildren now, and quite unconcerned about whether the phone would ring again with another club offering a job.. and then he talked at some length about TM, and how he is well regarded in the game as being a good coach, and how he is being asked to walk a tightrope at Rovers, but with his hands tied behind his back and blindfolded to boot... I asked what he meant, and he said that despite the outward appearance, things at Ewood are definitely not what they seem, and TM is only making the best of what is a very poor set up - just like any of us would do if given an impossible task, with frequent curve-balls served from remote places to make things even harder. He wouldn't go any further in saying what this meant in concrete terms, but just said sagely, TM says things sometimes to wind people up behind the scenes, and is just as powerless in terms of the future of the club as any of us as ordinary fans.

I'm going to put two and two together here and get an odd number .... but my guess is that the whole thing is a complete charade (still) run for the benefit of folk far away, who gain benefit when results go a particular way. That is just my view, but it fits the model that the newly unemployed but very chilled Mick McCarthy set out.

So, for now I'm going to pot the juvenile name calling and gurn-referencing and concentrate on the bigger picture, to see if any patterns, any clues, any obvious questions emerge. Perhaps TM isn't the real scapegoat after all, but just another passenger on the bus like the rest of us (albeit with a better paid job!).

[Gav]

Good read WIR.

This is what some of us have been saying for a while now, the clubs setup to fail and will continue to do so until the owners leave the club, doesn’t matter who the manager is.

That said, Mowbray doesn’t have the ability to get this club promoted, nobody does in my opinion, so I have no problems with him being sacked if that’s the road the club wants to go down, until then he’s a safe pair of hands until new owners save us from this nightmare. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Gav

[AllRoverAsia]

If the reading of McCarthy's veiled opinion is accurate then surely a man of open and honest integrity could not (continue) to work on behalf of chicken shit.

So he's only in it for the money? I can accept that oddly enough.

I will not go too deep into the EFL Managers Lunch Club, the second rater to the PL version of chancers meeting up for a bevvy and to compare their bank balances.

[RevidgeBlue]

53 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Shock, horror, send for the head-doctor - I may be about to revise my opinion of Mr Tony Mowbray...

I was talking to none other than Mick McCarthy today, and commiserating with him about his very recent experience with the Bluebirds. We chatted about the 5-1 reverse they'd suffered at Ewood, and he was saying that football is a strange business, as Cardiff had hit the post and had Nyambe clear off the line before we went on the scoring rampage at the other end, and if their two chances had been converted then maybe the score would have been reversed.

Anyway, he seemed very chilled at the prospect of having more time with his grandchildren now, and quite unconcerned about whether the phone would ring again with another club offering a job.. and then he talked at some length about TM, and how he is well regarded in the game as being a good coach, and how he is being asked to walk a tightrope at Rovers, but with his hands tied behind his back and blindfolded to boot... I asked what he meant, and he said that despite the outward appearance, things at Ewood are definitely not what they seem, and TM is only making the best of what is a very poor set up - just like any of us would do if given an impossible task, with frequent curve-balls served from remote places to make things even harder. He wouldn't go any further in saying what this meant in concrete terms, but just said sagely, TM says things sometimes to wind people up behind the scenes, and is just as powerless in terms of the future of the club as any of us as ordinary fans.

I'm going to put two and two together here and get an odd number .... but my guess is that the whole thing is a complete charade (still) run for the benefit of folk far away, who gain benefit when results go a particular way. That is just my view, but it fits the model that the newly unemployed but very chilled Mick McCarthy set out.

So, for now I'm going to pot the juvenile name calling and gurn-referencing and concentrate on the bigger picture, to see if any patterns, any clues, any obvious questions emerge. Perhaps TM isn't the real scapegoat after all, but just another passenger on the bus like the rest of us (albeit with a better paid job!).

Well the only opinion of mine that that load of old codswallop (not aimed at you WIR)  has changed is that of Mccarthy. And not for the better.

If things are that intolerable for Mowbray, why doesn't he just leave?

Old pals act. Then again dinosaurs did use to roam the earth in packs.

[Wheelton Blue]

Presuambly then, if Mowbray was potted and the gig offered to McCarthy, he would dismiss the offer out of hand?

Nah. Didn't think so.

[islander200]

Tony pulis was in the papers when at sheff Wednesday saying how lucky Tony has been being given the time to build his own team.

Id agree with Mcarthy it cant be the easiest working under this set up, but he has  had decent money to work with and a lifetime in the job in the modern era.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Tony pulis was in the papers when at sheff Wednesday saying how lucky Tony has been being given the time to build his own team.

Id agree with Mcarthy it cant be the easiest working under this set up, but he has  had decent money to work with and a lifetime in the job in the modern era.

In fact it's so bad he'll have "put up with it" for five and a bit seasons by the end of this one and only a few weeks ago his mate Swag was talking about hopping on a plane to India to sort out a new contract for Tony.

Pull the other one Mick

[matt83]

1 hour ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Shock, horror, send for the head-doctor - I may be about to revise my opinion of Mr Tony Mowbray...

I was talking to none other than Mick McCarthy today, and commiserating with him about his very recent experience with the Bluebirds. We chatted about the 5-1 reverse they'd suffered at Ewood, and he was saying that football is a strange business, as Cardiff had hit the post and had Nyambe clear off the line before we went on the scoring rampage at the other end, and if their two chances had been converted then maybe the score would have been reversed.

Anyway, he seemed very chilled at the prospect of having more time with his grandchildren now, and quite unconcerned about whether the phone would ring again with another club offering a job.. and then he talked at some length about TM, and how he is well regarded in the game as being a good coach, and how he is being asked to walk a tightrope at Rovers, but with his hands tied behind his back and blindfolded to boot... I asked what he meant, and he said that despite the outward appearance, things at Ewood are definitely not what they seem, and TM is only making the best of what is a very poor set up - just like any of us would do if given an impossible task, with frequent curve-balls served from remote places to make things even harder. He wouldn't go any further in saying what this meant in concrete terms, but just said sagely, TM says things sometimes to wind people up behind the scenes, and is just as powerless in terms of the future of the club as any of us as ordinary fans.

I'm going to put two and two together here and get an odd number .... but my guess is that the whole thing is a complete charade (still) run for the benefit of folk far away, who gain benefit when results go a particular way. That is just my view, but it fits the model that the newly unemployed but very chilled Mick McCarthy set out.

So, for now I'm going to pot the juvenile name calling and gurn-referencing and concentrate on the bigger picture, to see if any patterns, any clues, any obvious questions emerge. Perhaps TM isn't the real scapegoat after all, but just another passenger on the bus like the rest of us (albeit with a better paid job!).

Interesting read. But at a few occasions Mowbray has gone out of his way to praise the owners when saying nothing would have sufficed. He’s very much on their side and if it’s true things aren’t all well and he still publicly sucks up to them it makes it worse. 

[Silas]

1 hour ago, WIR Second Coming said:

 ...and TM is only making the best of what is a very poor set up - just like any of us would do if given an impossible task, with frequent curve-balls served from remote places to make things even harder. 

I'm just reading that as issues with finances and transfer dealings.

Which we kind of already knew.

Line a player up, agree fee, agree terms, only for the numpties in India to blow it all last minute by refusing final sign off.

Would be frustrating as hell after all the effort has gone in previously. 

But I genuinely don't see how the owners can be massively influencing the club on a day to day and week to week basis. They appear to just leave TM and his staff to get on with things.

Interesting story though. 

[Gone to seed]

I guess we will never know, but if it was any of us, on a fabulous wage and very little pressure to do anything other than told, then perhaps we'd just keep the head down and carry on until the gig ran out.

As for Mr McCarthy, he looked the picture of health and relaxation, and was under no duress to express an opinion one way or the other about TM to me. 

Anyway, I've done my bit - I've let you lot hear what was said when I spoke face to face to a real ITK today. He isn't as tall as I thought! Does he tell tall tales about his 'mates' in the game? Who knows!  🙂