Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Silas]

9 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

I guess we will never know, but if it was any of us, on a fabulous wage and very little pressure to do anything other than told, then perhaps we'd just keep the head down and carry on until the gig ran out.

Pretty sure I would, no doubt.

But here's one for you, if I did, I certainly wouldn't be slagging off the fans, because I would understand why they were angry, as I knew what a shambles it was behind the scenes. 

That's what doesn't add up to me. The way he attacks us and defends them is way beyond 'towing the party line'. It would be easy enough to do a few token gestures, put on a bit of a show for the bosses.

He does it with real gusto and passion (probably the most he shows on any topic). If you were constantly having the rug pulled out from under you, you'd cash your paycheck, say yes sir, no sir, whilst secretly giving them the finger behind your back.

Does Tony strike you as someone in that position? Definite no for me. 

[DE.]

I mean, it's no secret the club's structure is a joke. I've been banging on about it since the Bowyer days. The #1 issue at the club is not the manager, it's the inability of the owners to implement any kind of coherent foundation for any manager to have any success with. Mowbray has been financially backed to some degree, that much is true, but there is so much more to running a successful club at this or any other level. Being allowed to throw £7m or £5m at the odd player, regardless of ability, doesn't mean much when the fabric of the club itself is so obviously flawed.

With that said there are things the manager does that are ridiculous, irrespective of how the club is structured. If Mowbray is regarded as a top coach by people in the game then good for him, but that doesn't excuse the way he speaks about some of our players in public, the bizarre formations and choices of personnel in certain positions, digs at the fans regarding the past or nonsense about formations not being important or not looking at the league table. At a normal club Mowbray would have been out on his arse some time ago after some of the horrendous runs we've endured under his watch, so whilst it must be difficult working for Venky's, he's also been very lucky in being allowed to continue here for as long as he has. In many ways he's benefited from the owners' inexplicable management style - even when getting the job in the first place.

So, for me it goes both ways. The club is a basket case no matter how 'stable' things appear on the outside, and I do not foresee us ever being successful with the current owners at the helm. However, Mowbray has made plenty of big mistakes even taking that into account. His overall performance can be debated until the end of time, but there's no question he has gone stale here and like any manager who has been at a club for a long period of time, it eventually comes time to move on and try something else. The frustration comes from that obvious fact not being acknowledged by those in charge of the club, despite them acknowledging it before with the likes of Bowyer and Coyle. It leaves the impression of a rudderless ship being helmed by people who know their time is up but are willing to cruise along as we slowly sink beneath the waves.

Although, with the amount of players out of contract this summer, we may not be too far away from suddenly capsizing completely.

[islander200]

The likes of Lenihen, Nyambe and Rothwell the players with only a year left should have been sorted with new deals last summer.

We can blame the owners for the contract situation due to the budget being slashed back this season but the money was there to get at least one or two of them sorted last summer so to me as much as Mowbray moans about it in the media he is as much to blame as anyone.

I just cant get my head round why the owners would allow him to bring in 11(granted half of those were loans but they still cost)  players last season 12 if you include Pickering but wouldnt allow new deals for the 3 mentioned.

Ayala was given a deal and going off his previous wage and speculation at the time he would be top end of our wage ceiling, Pears was given a 4 year contract, Downing was resigned purely as a voice in the dressing room it seems as he hardly played.Dack got a new deal.

We sign a left back for 650k and then leave him at Crewe for the second half of the season despite both our left backs proving sub standard in the first half of the season.Second season of paying Mulgrew near 14k a week for playing his football elsewhere.

Yes overall blame lays with the owners for not taking any interest and in their reign never once putting competent people in charge but this contract situation Mowbray and co on the ground have screwed us big time.I just dont believe they were pushing the owners for new contracts last summer when it should and could  have been done with the money wasted.

 

 

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

 

I just cant get my head round why the owners would allow him to bring in 11(granted half of those were loans but they still cost)  players last season 12 if you include Pickering but wouldnt allow new deals for the 3 mentioned.

That's assuming they want new deals.  I believe they will leave for nothing.

[Bigdoggsteel]

17 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Like I said before, we lose the first year of our championship spending where we spent nearly 10 million pounds plus I expect Brereton and Kaminski will leave this season. 

I think we would be attractive option to a Chris Wilder given the scope he would have for his own signings, the stadium, training facilities and He would be allow to bring in own staff. 

Yes I think Ainsworth would be able to attract signings that would fit into his tactics and style of play.   

 

We spent that money pre-covid. Surely you see that will impact and spending won't be the same? In fact it could be non-existent going off the fact we can't get key players to sign new deals. 

He might get players to fit his style of play, but far, far from guaranteed that would get us anywhere unfortunately , particularly if we lose keep players and don't reinvest. In fact , it could be very bad. For all Mowbrays faults and even with Ainsworths links to the club, the reality id Mowbray is possibly the one who would keep us up in the division 

For me to be positive , we need to start signing key players to new contracts

Edited October 27, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 hours ago, islander200 said:

The likes of Lenihen, Nyambe and Rothwell the players with only a year left should have been sorted with new deals last summer.

We can blame the owners for the contract situation due to the budget being slashed back this season but the money was there to get at least one or two of them sorted last summer so to me as much as Mowbray moans about it in the media he is as much to blame as anyone.

I just cant get my head round why the owners would allow him to bring in 11(granted half of those were loans but they still cost)  players last season 12 if you include Pickering but wouldnt allow new deals for the 3 mentioned.

Ayala was given a deal and going off his previous wage and speculation at the time he would be top end of our wage ceiling, Pears was given a 4 year contract, Downing was resigned purely as a voice in the dressing room it seems as he hardly played.Dack got a new deal.

We sign a left back for 650k and then leave him at Crewe for the second half of the season despite both our left backs proving sub standard in the first half of the season.Second season of paying Mulgrew near 14k a week for playing his football elsewhere.

Yes overall blame lays with the owners for not taking any interest and in their reign never once putting competent people in charge but this contract situation Mowbray and co on the ground have screwed us big time.I just dont believe they were pushing the owners for new contracts last summer when it should and could  have been done with the money wasted.

 

 

Nah, it's totally on the owners imo. 

You don't understand why we would bring in 11 players, am because we needed them? As for Pickering, not ideal, but Douglas didnt work out and Crewe might not have done the deal without us loaning him back. Pears is on peanuts, but ya he doesn't look great. Small fry really though. Downing wasn't a crucial signing at all, but the owners ended up complicating that deal and leaving a bad taste. Would you not have given Dack a new deal?? I don't understand that point...

What could we do about Mulgrew? His form disintegrated. It happens. 

Ayala has been arguably our best player when fit, no issue with him being top earner. Lenihan must want more though and not paying that isn't Mowbrays choice.

[islander200]

32 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Nah, it's totally on the owners imo. 

You don't understand why we would bring in 11 players, am because we needed them? As for Pickering, not ideal, but Douglas didnt work out and Crewe might not have done the deal without us loaning him back. Pears is on peanuts, but ya he doesn't look great. Small fry really though. Downing wasn't a crucial signing at all, but the owners ended up complicating that deal and leaving a bad taste. Would you not have given Dack a new deal?? I don't understand that point...

What could we do about Mulgrew? His form disintegrated. It happens. 

Ayala has been arguably our best player when fit, no issue with him being top earner. Lenihan must want more though and not paying that isn't Mowbrays choice.

We didnt need 11 players last summer at all.Half of them didnt contribute anything.If he didnt need to change the team every week then 11 players were not needed to be brought in,we had a bloated squad thst lacked in quality.

Surely  you tie your own assets down before you bring others in.

Of course i would have given Dack a new deal , my point is he had enough scope to bring in 12 players and give Dack a new contract something could have been done about new contracts.

What would i have done about Mulgrew? not given him,smallwood and Bennett such lenghty deals.

Downing shouldnt have been signed at all,he hardly played.

And Pears isnt small fry .Give me one good reason why he was given a 4 year contract?

I do have an issue with Ayala being our top earner he was paid for nothing last season.And he womt last this season without spells out the squad with injury.His history tells us that.

You dont leave it till they have only 12 months left and then moan about it.Mowbray and Waggott are as much to blame as the owners on the contract front.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by islander200

[islander200]

12 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

That's assuming they want new deals.  I believe they will leave for nothing.

Now yeah as when you let them get to 12 months left then the players hold all the cards.If he gave Nyambe a 4 year deal like he did Pears then we wouldnt be losing for nothing 

[JHRover]

I'm still struggling to understand the basic problem here which is that we have billionaire owners and are losing upwards of £15 million a year yet supposedly cannot afford to pay key players more to ensure they are tied to the club.

Of course Maggott and Mowbray will attempt to absolve themselves of any culpability by wittering on about wage structures and not being held to ransom, but if we can't afford to pay Nyambe an extra few thousand a week then where the hell is all the money going?

It becomes a self-fulfilling problem anyway because important players like Nyambe leave for nothing = no windfall from selling him = have to go out and replace him = have to pay a transfer or signing on fee = have to pay Championship wages on a replacement or at least League One wages on a rookie and hope for the best.

On and on the madness goes.

I'm so utterly sick of the lot of them.

I suspect we are now past the watershed on these deals. We probably had a good chance on all of them had the Club acted appropriately and got them resolved in good time but the disgraceful behaviour of those behind the scenes will have ensured that these players will be counting down the days until they can get out of here. We've heard from Stewart Downing the sort of nonsense these people get up to and mess people about with. Rothwell clearly wanted out in the summer and was forced to stay by us activating an extension. Nyambe has been mucked around and we've made it clear how little we value him based on the figures I've heard.

In addition to that the complete lack of ambition of the club, persisting with a failed manager regardless of results and policy of borrowing kids to assemble a squad - certainly doesn't come across as a club any player with ambition would want to be at.

I hope when Nyambe turns up at Ewood playing for Preston or similar next season that we don't get any Rovers fans booing or making excuses like we couldn't afford to keep him or FFP nonsense.

[Bigdoggsteel]

29 minutes ago, islander200 said:

We didnt need 11 players last summer at all.Half of them didnt contribute anything.If he didnt need to change the team every week then 11 players were not needed to be brought in,we had a bloated squad thst lacked in quality.

Surely  you tie your own assets down before you bring others in.

Of course i would have given Dack a new deal , my point is he had enough scope to bring in 12 players and give Dack a new contract something could have been done about new contracts.

What would i have done about Mulgrew? not given him,smallwood and Bennett such lenghty deals.

Downing shouldnt have been signed at all,he hardly played.

And Pears isnt small fry .Give me one good reason why he was given a 4 year contract?

I do have an issue with Ayala being our top earner he was paid for nothing last season.And he womt last this season without spells out the squad with injury.His history tells us that.

You dont leave it till they have only 12 months left and then moan about it.Mowbray and Waggott are as much to blame as the owners on the contract front.

 

 

How do you know they left it til the last 12 months? Player power when it comes to contracts. The bottom line is the money isn't there to give them what they want and thats on the owners, plain and simple. 

On Pears, well we needed a back up keeper and he's a good age. He has played Championship football prior to here. He has looked poor, but aren't we discussing the benefit of tying players to long contracts? 

Agree about Smallwood and Bennett. Disagre about Ayala. He is wat we have needed for years. Last season was a disaster, but if he plays more than 30 games this year, that's great. He is crucial to us winning games. 

[47er]

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

hope when Nyambe turns up at Ewood playing for Preston or similar next season that we don't get any Rovers fans booing or making excuses like we couldn't afford to keep him or FFP nonsense.

I'm told by someone who should know, that Nyambe's agent is asking for the club to double his wages. I'm guessing he is not

on a lot so double is not excessive. Given we lose him for nothing this situation seems ridiculous.

[roversfan99]

The Mick McCarthy story will have a big element of an old pals act to it, I always take any manager comments about other managers with a huge pinch of salt, plus Mowbray doesn't deserve sympathy in that he is luck to still be in a job.

But it would be of absolutely no surprise to find that the club is being run terribly still, and I am amazed that so many are keen to deflect blame away from the owners. They are and always have been the underlying reason for continuous negligence and incompetence ever since they stepped foot into this club. I think a few are trying to fool themselves into thinking that once we change the manager whenever that is, that things will change for the better and that the inefficiencies will cease to exist. I would be shocked if that was the case, Mowbray is just a symptom of that.

Micro analysing the signing of a young sub keeper with Championship experience on a long deal, it is fair in that a manager deserves evaluating on all signings and Pears looks a dud, but in the grand scheme of things, he will be on low wages, it is not the reason that we are about to lose all of our key players on free transfers, Venkys are.

[islander200]

22 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

How do you know they left it til the last 12 months? Player power when it comes to contracts. The bottom line is the money isn't there to give them what they want and thats on the owners, plain and simple. 

On Pears, well we needed a back up keeper and he's a good age. He has played Championship football prior to here. He has looked poor, but aren't we discussing the benefit of tying players to long contracts? 

Agree about Smallwood and Bennett. Disagre about Ayala. He is wat we have needed for years. Last season was a disaster, but if he plays more than 30 games this year, that's great. He is crucial to us winning games. 

We brought in another young goalkeeper last season aswell, who we paid a small fee for.Pears doesnt look championship standard a point Neil Warnock made when he sold him to us.

When was the last time Ayala played 30 games in the Championship?Lucrative deal with no resale value.Im not disputing his talent, quality defender but his injury issues aint something new and he cant be relied upon.

If id a choice last summer of tieing down Nyambe or bringing in Ayala i would have chosen a new deal for Nyambe.

It isnt just on the owners plain and simple.

I dont believe Mowbray and Waggott were trying to sort these contracts last summer.Mowbray was under delusions he had built a top 6 squad.

They are given a playing budget and they use it how they see fit. Like bringing in 11 players last summer, about 4 contributed anything ,Kaminski,Harwood Bellis, Elliot and Dolan.

 

 

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The Mick McCarthy story will have a big element of an old pals act to it, I always take any manager comments about other managers with a huge pinch of salt, plus Mowbray doesn't deserve sympathy in that he is luck to still be in a job.

But it would be of absolutely no surprise to find that the club is being run terribly still, and I am amazed that so many are keen to deflect blame away from the owners. They are and always have been the underlying reason for continuous negligence and incompetence ever since they stepped foot into this club. I think a few are trying to fool themselves into thinking that once we change the manager whenever that is, that things will change for the better and that the inefficiencies will cease to exist. I would be shocked if that was the case, Mowbray is just a symptom of that.

Micro analysing the signing of a young sub keeper with Championship experience on a long deal, it is fair in that a manager deserves evaluating on all signings and Pears looks a dud, but in the grand scheme of things, he will be on low wages, it is not the reason that we are about to lose all of our key players on free transfers, Venkys are.

My point with Pears is yeah he will be most likely be on low wages but find it suspicous that a player whose family are close with the manager gets a 4 year contract, yet everyone else we sign or renew gets a 2 year deal with a year extension in clubs favour.

Im not disputing the owners are a shit show, i dont think a change of management will make everything better.I just think Mowbray, Waggott and the others running the club on the owners behalf deserve part of the blame for the contract situation and should be rightly criticised for it .

[JHRover]

The first 6 months of a new Nyambe contract could be covered by knocking Maggott's salary down from £300,000 per year to a mere £200,000. I'm sure the club and Maggott could survive such a cut.

I'm pretty sure the owners didn't ring Mowbray and Maggott up in June 2020 just as the pandemic was hitting full swing around the world and insisted that they gave month long extensions to 7 players costing another couple of hundred thousand pounds for nothing. Or like when they hired a private plane to fly the lads down to Cardiff for a dead rubber fixture.

Pretty sure that when Mowbray's contract is up there will be a much greater clamour and hysteria around the club about getting it resolved and they'll end up finding the magic money tree to enable him to get fresh terms.

And what a strange decision it was to pay money for and sign Kaminski as our new No 1 and put him on a 2 year deal yet sign Pears as backup on a 4 year deal. Where the logic is there I don't know but another decision that will likely cost us fortunes.

Edited October 27, 2021 by JHRover

[roversfan99]

You would suspect that Kaminski is not on a longer term deal because of his unwillingness to commit for such a long time as a goalkeeper in his peak, moving to a new country, not wanting to tie himself down for too long initially.

[blondie]

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You would suspect that Kaminski is not on a longer term deal because of his unwillingness to commit for such a long time as a goalkeeper in his peak, moving to a new country, not wanting to tie himself down for too long initially.

Pears conversely ecstatic on being offered a 4yr deal.

[islander200]

33 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You would suspect that Kaminski is not on a longer term deal because of his unwillingness to commit for such a long time as a goalkeeper in his peak, moving to a new country, not wanting to tie himself down for too long initially.

Or he signed what the club offered.

He signed a 2 year with extension of a year in the clubs favour i dont think he would have been turning down guaranteed wages for an extra year.

[roversfan99]

31 minutes ago, blondie said:

Pears conversely ecstatic on being offered a 4yr deal.

Exactly. A goalkeeper with minimal long term experience who was 22 is much more likely surely to sign long term compared to a goalkeeper coming into his peak years.

20 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Or he signed what the club offered.

He signed a 2 year with extension of a year in the clubs favour i dont think he would have been turning down guaranteed wages for an extra year.

No negotiation, here is the length of the contract, take it or leave it?

Either way, way off on a tangent.

[islander200]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Exactly. A goalkeeper with minimal long term experience who was 22 is much more likely surely to sign long term compared to a goalkeeper coming into his peak years.

No negotiation, here is the length of the contract, take it or leave it?

Either way, way off on a tangent.

He effectively signed on for 3 years so i dont think he would be turning down 4 over worries about moving to another country like you suggested 

[tomphil]

If Mowbray and Venus stay at Rovers beyond this season then at some point Pears will end up number 1.

Written in the stars the min they paid a fee for him and gave him a 4 yr contract. Not if but when.

[blondie]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Exactly. A goalkeeper with minimal long term experience who was 22 is much more likely surely to sign long term compared to a goalkeeper coming into his peak years.

 

 

I meant I bet Pears couldn't believe his luck.

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 hours ago, islander200 said:

We brought in another young goalkeeper last season aswell, who we paid a small fee for.Pears doesnt look championship standard a point Neil Warnock made when he sold him to us.

When was the last time Ayala played 30 games in the Championship?Lucrative deal with no resale value.Im not disputing his talent, quality defender but his injury issues aint something new and he cant be relied upon.

If id a choice last summer of tieing down Nyambe or bringing in Ayala i would have chosen a new deal for Nyambe.

It isnt just on the owners plain and simple.

I dont believe Mowbray and Waggott were trying to sort these contracts last summer.Mowbray was under delusions he had built a top 6 squad.

They are given a playing budget and they use it how they see fit. Like bringing in 11 players last summer, about 4 contributed anything ,Kaminski,Harwood Bellis, Elliot and Dolan.

 

 

Easy to look back in hindsight on deals that didn't work out. No doubt money was wasted over the last few seasons, but a lot of money has been brought in too relative to that and ultimately if the players won't sign because of financials, that's on the owners who control the purse strings. If it's footballing reasons stopping them signing, well that's a different discussion and at the end of the day, we arent privy to any of those details in relation to what their motivating factors are. 

[Sparks Rover]

8 hours ago, blondie said:

I meant I bet Pears couldn't believe his luck.

Course he could....privileged to death,.....I wonder how many good goalies have fallen by the wayside while son of boro legend takes his place in the academy unopposed.....and he will have some sort of well paid career off the back of it. Poor do 

[Gav]

With Ben Brereton flying and now showing the talent the club saw he had, I use the term club as it was strongly rumoured at the time that this wasn't a Mowbray signing at all, but I'm sure he'll take the credit for it now!

Its worth pointing out that when given a few quid, Mowbray seems more than capable of finding a fantastic return on investment, no wonder the owners keep him around.

Bradley Dack (750k) probably would have been sold by now if he'd managed to stay fit, £15m+

Adam Armstrong (1.8m) was sold £15-£20m

Joe Rothwell (300k) sadly it doesn't look like we're going to get much of a fee, but he would have gone for millions had he been on a decent contract.

Ben Brereton (5/6m) similar money to Armstrong if he keeps this up - New contract please.

Gallagher(5m) needs more goals, but could make that step up.

Kaminsky (400k) a £10m keeper in the making, more than paid back his fee if we sold him today - New contract please.

Tyrhys Dolan (free) this lad could go far, still young, still learning, could be a star in the making - New contract please.

Thats some return on investment, the owners need to take the heads from up the arses and get new contracts signed and sealed as soon as possible, or pour more money down the drain.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Gav