Tony Mowbray Discussion

[den]

So you’re happy with the last 5 years Gav? Fans walking away, terrible winless runs, lower league finishes and conceding goals like never before?

[Gav]

3 minutes ago, den said:

So you’re happy with the last 5 years Gav? Fans walking away, terrible winless runs, lower league finishes and conceding goals like never before?

Nope, I’d have sacked him 12 months ago, but that doesn’t take away from the facts regarding his transfer dealings and probably the reason why he’s still here.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Gav

[Sparks Rover]

46 minutes ago, Gav said:

With Ben Brereton flying and now showing the talent the club saw he had, I use the term club as it was strongly rumoured at the time that this wasn't a Mowbray signing at all, but I'm sure he'll take the credit for it now!

Its worth pointing out that when given a few quid, Mowbray seems more than capable of finding a fantastic return on investment, no wonder the owners keep him around.

Bradley Dack (750k) probably would have been sold by now if he'd managed to stay fit, £15m+

Adam Armstrong (1.8m) was sold £15-£20m

Joe Rothwell (300k) sadly it doesn't look like we're going to get much of a fee, but he would have gone for millions had he been on a decent contract.

Ben Brereton (5/6m) similar money to Armstrong if he keeps this up - New contract please.

Gallagher(5m) needs more goals, but could make that step up.

Kaminsky (400k) a £10m keeper in the making, more than paid back his fee if we sold him today - New contract please.

Tyrhys Dolan (free) this lad could go far, still young, still learning, could be a star in the making - New contract please.

Thats some return on investment, the owners need to take the heads from up the arses and get new contracts signed and sealed as soon as possible, or pour more money down the drain.

 

So basically the only business is AA and he ended up costing 4m with all add ons...we give 40% of 14m to Newcastle so in reality he's made about 8m......

You forget all the mates rates contracts to poor players over the years and shit signings..🤷‍♂️.

Really Gav?   Bigging up Mowbray by fiddling the figures...Brereton will go for free too

Edited October 31, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

So basically the only business is AA and he ended up costing 4m with all add ons...we give 40% of 14m to Newcastle so in reality he's made about 8m......

😂 😂

Its Halloween not April fools day, what utter garbage. Fancy doing my accounts this year Sparks?

Edited October 31, 2021 by Gav

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Gallagher(5m) needs more goals, but could make that step up.

It’s halloween , not April Fools Day. 😀😀

[Bigdoggsteel]

56 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

So basically the only business is AA and he ended up costing 4m with all add ons...we give 40% of 14m to Newcastle so in reality he's made about 8m......

You forget all the mates rates contracts to poor players over the years and shit signings..🤷‍♂️.

Really Gav?   Bigging up Mowbray by fiddling the figures...Brereton will go for free too

Ya imagine fiddling figures to make a point 😆

[Sparks Rover]

39 minutes ago, Gav said:

😂 😂

Its Halloween not April fools day, what utter garbage. Fancy doing my accounts this year Sparks?

Not with all the false promises...you must be a salesman....

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

With Ben Brereton flying and now showing the talent the club saw he had, I use the term club as it was strongly rumoured at the time that this wasn't a Mowbray signing at all, but I'm sure he'll take the credit for it now!

Its worth pointing out that when given a few quid, Mowbray seems more than capable of finding a fantastic return on investment, no wonder the owners keep him around.

Bradley Dack (750k) probably would have been sold by now if he'd managed to stay fit, £15m+

Adam Armstrong (1.8m) was sold £15-£20m

Joe Rothwell (300k) sadly it doesn't look like we're going to get much of a fee, but he would have gone for millions had he been on a decent contract.

Ben Brereton (5/6m) similar money to Armstrong if he keeps this up - New contract please.

Gallagher(5m) needs more goals, but could make that step up.

Kaminsky (400k) a £10m keeper in the making, more than paid back his fee if we sold him today - New contract please.

Tyrhys Dolan (free) this lad could go far, still young, still learning, could be a star in the making - New contract please.

Thats some return on investment, the owners need to take the heads from up the arses and get new contracts signed and sealed as soon as possible, or pour more money down the drain.

 

Many of them are difficult to argue with, especially Dack and Armstrong. I definitely don't think that Gallagher can be argued as a wise investment, we wouldn't get close to 5m back for him, even as a Championship striker he has never been close to a prolific goalscorer and most of his game is poor as a striker, and he is entering his prime years I would suggest. 

Kaminski is definitely a good purchase but certainly wouldn't get anywhere near 10m either.

Sadly, the owners will never take their head from their arses.

[den]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Nope, I’d have sacked him 12 months ago, but that doesn’t take away from the facts regarding his transfer dealings and probably the reason why he’s still here.

For us to know the facts about his transfer dealings we would have to know a heck of a lot more than you or I do Gav. We would have to know every signing on fee, every agents fee, every contract detail of every player brought into the club, or released from the club for the last 5 years. I doubt very much that it’s a positive figure seeing that Venkys have had to put in around £100m in that time.

[Sparks Rover]

13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Why accuse someone of fiddling numbers only to say 14 million which literally nobody has said he went for 😂 15 min and more with ad ons. We also didn't pay 4 for him, 3 max I'd say. What are you basing add ons on that brought it to 4?

Gavs points stands up, a lot of players he has signed for money have or will end up being worth more. 

Dack, you can say what if, but injury out of his hands 

Brereton, yes

Armstrong ,yes

Rothwell, well not sure about millions,but a profit non the less 

Kaminski, yes

Edun, yes

Dolan, free,but yes 

Gallgaher,jury out I suppose 

Would have made more if contracts were handled properly and I know you don't understand how these work,well maybe you do now after people explained it to you ,but that's out of the managers hands. 

Ok, we disagree although I thought we sold for 18m, minus the 4m we paid when all told.  It leaves 14m profit, or 15m if we use your figure.. its still only 9m.  I'm not arguing about the others but they aren't done and haven't realised any increased value as yet....that's the point I'm making...

I agree with you that we could make money on some others, but a few will leave for nothing in my opinion......

[Exiled in Toronto]

On 26/10/2021 at 13:30, WIR Second Coming said:

Shock, horror, send for the head-doctor - I may be about to revise my opinion of Mr Tony Mowbray...

I was talking to none other than Mick McCarthy today, and commiserating with him about his very recent experience with the Bluebirds. We chatted about the 5-1 reverse they'd suffered at Ewood, and he was saying that football is a strange business, as Cardiff had hit the post and had Nyambe clear off the line before we went on the scoring rampage at the other end, and if their two chances had been converted then maybe the score would have been reversed.

Anyway, he seemed very chilled at the prospect of having more time with his grandchildren now, and quite unconcerned about whether the phone would ring again with another club offering a job.. and then he talked at some length about TM, and how he is well regarded in the game as being a good coach, and how he is being asked to walk a tightrope at Rovers, but with his hands tied behind his back and blindfolded to boot... I asked what he meant, and he said that despite the outward appearance, things at Ewood are definitely not what they seem, and TM is only making the best of what is a very poor set up - just like any of us would do if given an impossible task, with frequent curve-balls served from remote places to make things even harder. He wouldn't go any further in saying what this meant in concrete terms, but just said sagely, TM says things sometimes to wind people up behind the scenes, and is just as powerless in terms of the future of the club as any of us as ordinary fans.

I'm going to put two and two together here and get an odd number .... but my guess is that the whole thing is a complete charade (still) run for the benefit of folk far away, who gain benefit when results go a particular way. That is just my view, but it fits the model that the newly unemployed but very chilled Mick McCarthy set out.

So, for now I'm going to pot the juvenile name calling and gurn-referencing and concentrate on the bigger picture, to see if any patterns, any clues, any obvious questions emerge. Perhaps TM isn't the real scapegoat after all, but just another passenger on the bus like the rest of us (albeit with a better paid job!).

Very interesting, thanks for posting. 

As I love a good counter-narrative, I’ll put this out there. Everyone has been interpreting Tony’s off-the-cuff comment years ago about integrity and walking away from a fan’s perspective: results and league position.

But we also know Mowbray is an old-school football romantic, brought up in the 70s, he sees clubs through a misty-eyed lens.

IF things are as bad behind the scenes as McCarthy implies, then maybe the honourable thing to do for a football romantic like Mowbray is hang on in there and try and mitigate the damage being wrought to a famous old club. Maybe that’s why he signs players he knows and brings in support staff up to and including the CEO who he has worked with before because he knows they aren’t one of “them”.

Maybe he thinks he can reason with the owners enough to at least make things less worse than otherwise and sees walking away as abandoning the club to its fate.

No idea if any of this is true, but I’d argue it fits the known facts at least as well as the popular narrative that he’s an amoral, lying pension-maximiser.

[Gav]

40 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

 

Maybe he thinks he can reason with the owners enough to at least make things less worse than otherwise and sees walking away as abandoning the club to its fate.

No idea if any of this is true, but I’d argue it fits the known facts at least as well as the popular narrative that he’s an amoral, lying pension-maximiser.

Mowbray walked away from Coventry, handed in his resignation and waved goodbye to any further pension contributions or future earnings, he did the same at Boro too. This nonsense often written on here about him maximising his pension isn't born out by the facts.

I also take exception to people throwing out that lazy narrative. How many posters resign from jobs due to bad management with no job to go to?

Very few I’d wager….

I think he's genuinely trying to do a good job against a backdrop of chaos and absent owners. Its also interesting talking to opposition fans who think he's doing a really good job, with an exciting young team as one Brum fan said to me recently.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Gav

[lraC]

On 26/10/2021 at 19:30, WIR Second Coming said:

Shock, horror, send for the head-doctor - I may be about to revise my opinion of Mr Tony Mowbray...

I was talking to none other than Mick McCarthy today, and commiserating with him about his very recent experience with the Bluebirds. We chatted about the 5-1 reverse they'd suffered at Ewood, and he was saying that football is a strange business, as Cardiff had hit the post and had Nyambe clear off the line before we went on the scoring rampage at the other end, and if their two chances had been converted then maybe the score would have been reversed.

Anyway, he seemed very chilled at the prospect of having more time with his grandchildren now, and quite unconcerned about whether the phone would ring again with another club offering a job.. and then he talked at some length about TM, and how he is well regarded in the game as being a good coach, and how he is being asked to walk a tightrope at Rovers, but with his hands tied behind his back and blindfolded to boot... I asked what he meant, and he said that despite the outward appearance, things at Ewood are definitely not what they seem, and TM is only making the best of what is a very poor set up - just like any of us would do if given an impossible task, with frequent curve-balls served from remote places to make things even harder. He wouldn't go any further in saying what this meant in concrete terms, but just said sagely, TM says things sometimes to wind people up behind the scenes, and is just as powerless in terms of the future of the club as any of us as ordinary fans.

I'm going to put two and two together here and get an odd number .... but my guess is that the whole thing is a complete charade (still) run for the benefit of folk far away, who gain benefit when results go a particular way. That is just my view, but it fits the model that the newly unemployed but very chilled Mick McCarthy set out.

So, for now I'm going to pot the juvenile name calling and gurn-referencing and concentrate on the bigger picture, to see if any patterns, any clues, any obvious questions emerge. Perhaps TM isn't the real scapegoat after all, but just another passenger on the bus like the rest of us (albeit with a better paid job!).

Obviously people within the game, especially managers, tend to know each other pretty well. Given this story, where no doubt MM has held back a bit, it has to make you wonder, what the prospects are of someone decent taking the job on, in these circumstances?

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Ok, we disagree although I thought we sold for 18m, minus the 4m we paid when all told.  It leaves 14m profit, or 15m if we use your figure.. its still only 9m.  I'm not arguing about the others but they aren't done and haven't realised any increased value as yet....that's the point I'm making...

I agree with you that we could make money on some others, but a few will leave for nothing in my opinion......

It's looking good though and I can see why the owners would like it! Now if only he could sort out us holding a lead in a manner than means we don't all don't go through stress every game, like he sorted out the tinkering, well, mostly, that would be great! 

[riverholmes]

Perhaps, it's simply a reality of where we now are as a club, but to read quotes from Mowbray praising how clever Brighton are in allowing Jan Paul van Hecke to come to Rovers and toughen up and develop is quite jarring. It's not nice to accept we're playing a feeder role for Premier League teams. I'd much rather Mowbray keep quiet and then try to sign the player if he does well - if it's a possibility. (No doubt Brighton have their scouts checking in on him, so, maybe I'm overplaying how influential Mowbray's comments are).

Playing this developmental role for other clubs would be more sustainable if, we had our own youngsters developing at other clubs. However, there is no-one from our development or fringe players, currently, out there at a decent level (aside from Chapman who is leaving). The last ones I think who had successful loan to first team progression were Wharton, Lenihan and Raya. Carter has been on the fringes after his Burton loan too. This season looks like a missed opportunity. 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by riverholmes

[EgyptianPete]

On 31/10/2021 at 15:37, lraC said:

Obviously people within the game, especially managers, tend to know each other pretty well. Given this story, where no doubt MM has held back a bit, it has to make you wonder, what the prospects are of someone decent taking the job on, in these circumstances?

Or betting syndicates in India and the far east, both countries are betting crazy. Funny how we can have death spirals and then suddenly pick up points when maybe not expected.

[RoversClitheroe]

All we can hope for now is Mowbray gone? How many goals will it take? 

[RoversClitheroe]

10-0?

[Waggy76]

37 minutes ago, El Tombro said:

Absolutely no chance Mowbray will get sacked after a defeat against Fulham.

We have to have hope  !!

[den]

He’ll go. 

[G Somerset Rover]

Get this shambolic manager out of our club, NOW. Sam got the chop after our Utd humiliation. This is worse. Go on Blingy, I dare you pal.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Fuck, Mogadon is on next..........

Edited November 3, 2021 by Proudtobeblue&white

[Cherry Blue]

Pointless to make any comment other than I want him out by midnight.

[Waggy76]

16 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Get this shambolic manager out of our club, NOW. Sam got the chop after our Utd humiliation. This is worse. Go on Blingy, I dare you pal.

This is far far worse ...

 

[Mr. E]

People sounding hopeful here but I don't see a hope in hell. If Venkys were capable of experiencing shame Mowbray would have gone a long time ago. To them it's just a score, a statistic they'll read about in the morning, and won't make the slightest ripple in their day.