Tony Mowbray Discussion

[USABlue]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Well,  I've been partially supportive of the owners recently because I do think they've shown tremendous financial commitment to the Club over the last ten years or so and never more so than recently in the aftermath of the pandemic.

I was however appalled when Mowbray was not sacked at the back end of last season after amongst other things:

- delivering the 3rd worst run over a 16 game period in our 145 year history.

-- saying he didn't bother looking at the table

- and taking off our RB during a game, replacing him with a CF then changing said CF for a CH ten minutes later.

Then there's the scandal of our best players all being allowed to run their contracts down. A proper manager and CEO would have prioritised resources to protect the Club's most valuable assets and would have sacrificed some of the less valuable ones.

There's surely little chance now of anyone signing anything unless Mowbray and his motley assortment of deadbeats on the bench are sacked. Rothwell's face when he was as usual hauled off last night shortly after the hour mark was an absolute picture.

The reason I was so adamant Mowbray had to go last season was that this one would be (at best) wasted if he stayed. Exactly the same scenario applies to next season if he is allowed to see this one out - there's a good chance that will be wasted as well unless someone can transform us more or less overnight.

It has been left far too long to sack him already but it's never too late to try and bring about some improvement by getting rid now as opposed to exacerbating the situation by leaving him in situ 

I and several other have heard hints of relatively impressive sounding plans to transform the future of the Club over the next few years. I'm prepared to take those apparent good intentions at face value at this stage but unfortunately that doesn't square with the inertia where Waggott, Mowbray and his coaching staff are concerned.

He should have gone last season but didn't and we're going to pay for it with several more results of this ilk I fear, along with theoretically valuable players leaving for next to nothing.

Just as Mowbray has knackered up the efforts of the Commercial Department to drum up a bit of interest in the Club with the Sheff Utd promotion thanks to last night's shambles, so he will knacker up any good intentions the owners may have for the medium term if allowed to remain in his post.

And, unfortunately,even for me it will become increasingly difficult to believe in the veracity of the owners motives if he and Waggott are not removed. We can't succeed with them in situ no matter how much money the owners pump in in good faith.

If the owners are genuinely serious about reviving our fortunes Waggott and Mowbray HAVE to go. And quickly.

How much better would the 146 year "celebrations" had been had they coincided with the unveiling of (say) Hughes or Wilder, Tom Finn, a proficient coaching staff and the the promise of a new era?

Every day Mowbray and Co remain in their posts is another day wasted, and more fans potentially lost forever.

- 

 

Great post Rev.  I have to echo most if that, he needed to be gone last season, he would have been anywhere else.  It's almost as if he is trying to see how low he can go.  The damage done by him and his mates is far reaching and deep rooted and will take a long time with a very good manager, CEO.and support staff tondig us out of.  I fear for our immediate future.  Just how as he got away with spunking SEVEN MILLION on an "investment" then ignoring it to where it can walk away to next to nothing.  Sackable for just that.

[Mattyblue]

End of the day, he didn’t go anywhere in the midst of that horror run last season, when even TM himself was as good as begging to be put out of his misery.

So there’s not a chance he goes with us a few points from the play offs, though we know the 2 points away will soon be 4 then 6 then 8…

He’ll be here to see out his contract… and it’s not out of the realms that he’s offered another.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mattyblue

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

It's that time of year folks!.......

Build a Bonfire,build a Bonfire,put Mowbray on the top,

Put Venkys in the middle,and we'll burn the f'kin lot!!

 

[Gav]

14 minutes ago, booth said:

The best hope right now is to strike lucky with a manager. I can’t see any other way. We either get lucky or the club falls into the abyss.

The clubs already in the abyss booth, a new manager, even a lucky one, can't work with no footballing people to support him, no scouting network, staff leaving for glamour clubs like Salford City, no funding to pay contracts, not money for even the poorest loan signings, a refusal to engage, the place is a dysfunctional cabal. 

Venkys out.

 

[LeftWinger]

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

53 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The owners need to sack Mowbray, Venus and Lowe today. Appoint Damien Johnson as caretaker manager for Sheffield United game. 

Then speak to 3 or 4 managers and then pick your preferred choice. I see 3 good candidates for the job if we had a vacancy who are Gareth Ainsworth, Chris Wilder and Alex Neil. 

They don't listen Chaddy,our Owners have little interest,we are a side show to their Chicken and Pharmaceutical business.

We can't communicate with them and they won't sell the Club.

We're Royally fooked!

[Bigdoggsteel]

I would go for 

Roy Keane

Wilder 

or Hughes, even though I typically think it rarely works out when a manager goes back

They asked Downing what do you think Mowbray is saying to them after the game and his response was something like "He wont be saying much. He will leave it until tomorrow". I would love to see what Keano would go in and say to them after that performance. A few home truths would be ringing in certain players ears this morning.

[AAK]

13 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Out of all the managers that have paraded through during this nightmare reign, the one I wish (in hindsight) had been given the time is Appleton, we might have hot somewhere under him.

Very good point, an acquaintance of mine works with his sister. When he got the job he was over the moon, and had a proper and I mean proper, project and vision for the club moving forward. He was proud to be rovers manager and was absolutely gutted when he got the chop. However he always wished the club well, shows the level of the man.

Edited November 4, 2021 by AAK

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would go for 

Roy Keane

Wilder 

or Hughes, even though I typically think it rarely works out when a manager goes back

They asked Downing what do you think Mowbray is saying to them after the game and his response was something like "He wont be saying much. He will leave it until tomorrow". I would love to see what Keano would go in and say to them after that performance. A few home truths would be ringing in certain players ears this morning.

Oh how I wish the highlighted statement read : He will leave tomorrow.

[Gav]

11 minutes ago, AAK said:

Very good point, an acquaintance of mine works with his sister. When he got the job he was over the moon, and had a proper and I mean proper, project and vision for the club moving forward. He was proud to be rovers manager and was absolutely gutted when he got the chop. However he always wished the club well, shows the level of the man.

Paul Lambert had the same, I felt at the time he was better than we could have hoped for (Under a transfer embargo due to FFP) with the the money the club was offering to pay prospective managers and the shit show they're coming into.

Lambert soon realised that the club was a mess, the owners refused to engage on contract renewals, the transfer budget was slashed to nothing when we came out of FFP, the project he presented in his interview wasn't achievable and he walked away.

Mowbray is just another symptom, Venkys are the disease. 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Gav

[AAK]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

Paul Lambert had the same, I felt at the time he was better than we could have hoped for (Under a transfer embargo due to FFP) with the the money the club was offering to pay prospective managers and the shit show they're coming into.

Lambert soon realised that the club was a mess, the owners refused to engage on contract renewals, the transfer budget was slashed to nothing when we came out of FFP, the project he presented in his interview wasn't achievable and he walked away.

Mowbray is just another symptom, Venkys are the disease. 

 

Forgot all about, Lambert, damn. Good shout though. 

[Fraserkirky]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

The owners need to sack Mowbray, Venus and Lowe today. Appoint Damien Johnson as caretaker manager for Sheffield United game. 

Then speak to 3 or 4 managers and then pick your preferred choice. I see 3 good candidates for the job if we had a vacancy who are Gareth Ainsworth, Chris Wilder and Alex Neil. 

Yep that would be my plan. Three solid candidates would be all over the job.

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would go for 

Roy Keane

Wilder 

or Hughes, even though I typically think it rarely works out when a manager goes back

They asked Downing what do you think Mowbray is saying to them after the game and his response was something like "He wont be saying much. He will leave it until tomorrow". I would love to see what Keano would go in and say to them after that performance. A few home truths would be ringing in certain players ears this morning.

Yes, downing caveated that they were young...🤷‍♂️ so shouldn't be getting a bollocking. I'd have thought that's exactly when they should be getting one....carthorse turning his back was an issue for me.

[roversfan99]

Absolutely crazy that some people still seem in denial as to where all of our problems stem from.

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes, downing caveated that they were young...🤷‍♂️ so shouldn't be getting a bollocking. I'd have thought that's exactly when they should be getting one....carthorse turning his back was an issue for me.

He attempted a cowardly and stupid block for one and twice he was turned the wrong way, no idea where the ball was when the striker who came on for Mitrovic scored. 

Honestly it looked like they were stuck and asked someone from the crowd if they could fill in. He looked more out of his depth than Magloire, albeit against better opposition.

I'm not sure we have one player who is or ever will be PL quality 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He attempted a cowardly and stupid block for one and twice he was turned the wrong way, no idea where the ball was when the striker who came on for Mitrovic scored. 

Honestly it looked like they were stuck and asked someone from the crowd if they could fill in. He looked more out of his depth than Magloire, albeit against better opposition.

I'm not sure we have one player who is or ever will be PL quality 

I would disagree, Magloire is much worse. But Carter is miles off the standard too. Van Hecke is crap aswell.

Hopefully we have at least 2 available of Lenihan, Ayala and Wharton going forward.

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Absolutely crazy that some people still seem in denial as to where all of our problems stem from.

Not really a battle worth fighting. Pointless actually. It's a culmination of things and we are entitled to discuss them individually. 

The owners suck

The manager has been given time that others could only dream of and he sucks too 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I would disagree, Magloire is much worse. But Carter is miles off the standard too. Van Hecke is crap aswell.

Hopefully we have at least 2 available of Lenihan, Ayala and Wharton going forward.

Carter did look more out of depth last night, albeit against better opposition. Not sure how you would disagree with that. He was to blame for at least 3 and literally didnt put a foot right. He had as bad a game as I recall a defender having in a Rovers shirt, since Magloire.

Carter is League 1 standard and Magloire maybe first division in Scotland 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not really a battle worth fighting. Pointless actually. It's a culmination of things and we are entitled to discuss them individually. 

The owners suck

The manager has been given time that others could only dream of and he sucks too 

The manager should have been sacked 18 months ago. But if he left today, he hasn't really caused much damage in that we are in a slightly better position than when he came.

Venkys have caused untold, continuous damage, and is another symptom that stems from India. They don't care about the club, so they just allow him to crack on even whilst he underperforms, hence why he is a symptom, the root cause is Venkys, always has been, always will be.

It is more that I find it utterly baffling that people actively defend the owners even now.

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Carter did look more out of depth last night, albeit against better opposition. Not sure how you would disagree with that. He was to blame for at least 3 and literally didnt put a foot right. He had as bad a game as I recall a defender having in a Rovers shirt, since Magloire.

Carter is League 1 standard and Magloire maybe first division in Scotland 

Carter was crap, I suppose coming into a game against Fulham who were 2 up and a man up is difficult, but he wasn't very good, and to be honest hasn't really convinced me in any game that he has played for the first team, he did ok at Forest away as a stand in right back but otherwise he has been very shaky, even after a loan spell at Burton in which he apparently did brilliantly in.

But as I said in the Fulham thread, no outfield player was over 2 out of 10. Unsure if you watched the Huddersfield game when Magloire came on and the Blackpool game in which he started, I watched the former on TV and was at the latter, and in 2 other poor team performances, Magloire still stood out (in a bad way) amidst that all, he was horrendous.

[booth]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

The clubs already in the abyss booth, a new manager, even a lucky one, can't work with no footballing people to support him, no scouting network, staff leaving for glamour clubs like Salford City, no funding to pay contracts, not money for even the poorest loan signings, a refusal to engage, the place is a dysfunctional cabal. 

Venkys out.

 

I think I’m having posts removed unless my browsers are playing up. Not sure why as I’m being careful not to name names.

But the jist of it was, we won’t get better owners till we’re an attractive club. And with the mountain of debt and baggage  all we will attract are vultures right now.

Mowbray has had more than a lot of more successful managers. I’d like to see venkys throw their money and free reign over to a decent manager. That’s all.

Bit of a catch 22 I know.

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The manager should have been sacked 18 months ago. But if he left today, he hasn't really caused much damage in that we are in a slightly better position than when he came.

Venkys have caused untold, continuous damage, and is another symptom that stems from India. They don't care about the club, so they just allow him to crack on even whilst he underperforms, hence why he is a symptom, the root cause is Venkys, always has been, always will be.

It is more that I find it utterly baffling that people actively defend the owners even now.

Carter was crap, I suppose coming into a game against Fulham who were 2 up and a man up is difficult, but he wasn't very good, and to be honest hasn't really convinced me in any game that he has played for the first team, he did ok at Forest away as a stand in right back but otherwise he has been very shaky, even after a loan spell at Burton in which he apparently did brilliantly in.

But as I said in the Fulham thread, no outfield player was over 2 out of 10. Unsure if you watched the Huddersfield game when Magloire came on and the Blackpool game in which he started, I watched the former on TV and was at the latter, and in 2 other poor team performances, Magloire still stood out (in a bad way) amidst that all, he was horrendous.

I don't think anyone outright defends them, beyond acknowledging that they are keeping the show on the road money wise and even then nobody says that isn't their own fault. 

Your opening stuff about Mowbray ignores the fact that after his time here , without having to majorly sell anyone until last summer, we aren't a lot better off. Ok we are better off, but that wouldn't be hard compared to what he inherited. After all his talk about journeys and saying we were going for promotion last season, we are a lower midtable team under him. We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively. After 5 years he should have a system and a way of playing that all the players understand. The reality is he done a complete 180 after last season, which just shows he really doesn't have a clue how to get us up the table and he knows it, hence all the excuses. If we played and lost to a team where the manager has had 5 years to mold the style, along with Brereton and Gallagher, Mowbray would point out the manager has had time and money. 

I think the discussion in relation to Magloire and Carter need go no further than neither are good enough to play for Blackburn rovers. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Gav]

32 minutes ago, booth said:

I think I’m having posts removed unless my browsers are playing up. Not sure why as I’m being careful not to name names.

But the jist of it was, we won’t get better owners till we’re an attractive club. And with the mountain of debt and baggage  all we will attract are vultures right now.

Mowbray has had more than a lot of more successful managers. I’d like to see venkys throw their money and free reign over to a decent manager. That’s all.

Bit of a catch 22 I know.

Its a very good point booth, we have no idea what these owners will leave us with when they finally sod off. The cost cutting and penny pinching in most areas tells me they'll not be taking any debt with them. 

The positive we do have is we are Blackburn Rovers, the famous Blackburn Rovers who won the Premiership in 1995, Jack Walker, Alan Shearer, Kenny Dalglish, blue and white halves and in normal times recognised and respected the world over.

The football club means something to many people, we just need to stop rot, need to stop the damage being inflicted season after season by absent owners.

We will come again, we just need a change of ownership, once that happens the shoots of recovery start.

Keep the faith. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Gav

[RoversClitheroe]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its a very good point booth, we have no idea what these owners will leave us with when they finally sod off. The cost cutting and penny pinching in most areas tells me they'll not be taking any debt with them. 

The positive we do have is we are Blackburn Rovers, the famous Blackburn Rovers who won the Premiership in 1995, Jack Walker, Alan Shearer, Kenny Dalglish, blue and white halves and in normal times recognised and respected the world over.

The football club means something to many people, we just need to stop rot, need to stop the damage being inflicted season after season by absent owners.

We will come again, we just need a change of ownership, once that happens the shoots of recovery start.

Keep the faith. 

 

 

We're less attractive now we don't have the training ground on the Balance Sheet.

[roversfan99]

27 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I don't think anyone outright defends them, beyond acknowledging that they are keeping the show on the road money wise and even then nobody says that isn't their own fault. 

Your opening stuff about Mowbray ignores the fact that after his time here , without having to majorly sell anyone until last summer, we aren't a lot better off. Ok we are better off, but that wouldn't be hard compared to what he inherited. After all his talk about journeys and saying we were going for promotion last season, we are a lower midtable team under him. We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively. After 5 years he should have a system and a way of playing that all the players understand. The reality is he done a complete 180 after last season, which just shows he really doesn't have a clue how to get us up the table and he knows it, hence all the excuses. If we played and lost to a team where the manager has had 5 years to mold the style, along with Brereton and Gallagher, Mowbray would point out the manager has had time and money. 

I think the discussion in relation to Magloire and Carter need go no further than neither are good enough to play for Blackburn rovers. 

I wasn't defending him, but Mowbray isn't the problem. Ultimately throughout his time here following promotion, we have never been genuinely close to a relegation fight, nor have we come close to overachieving (which any manager would have to do to get us into the top 6, we don't have the resources of a top 6 side, but overachieving is possible as a team a season tends to prove, Coventry and Barnsley are 2 examples) and pushing on properly in his time here. Had he not been allowed to outstay his welcome so long, he would leave with his head held high, as it is, it has become a little bitter and sour. To be pedantic, you could argue that throwing his possession experiment in the bin shows that he isnt as stubborn as he seems and it has got "us up the table" slightly. His reign hasn't been disastrous, we haven't tumbled down the leagues and not returned, we have not been embroiled in constant battles at the bottom, he just is clearly incapable of pushing us on yet is left to linger because our owners don't give a shit. 

To go off on a tangent, the following is blatantly untrue as far as I am concerned, "We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively." Which youngsters are you referring to? Lenihan was a poor midfielder prior to Mowbray coming in, now he is captain. Nyambe was only just breaking into the team occasionally under Coyle, now he is a regular. Travis came through under Mowbray and since he did, he has been a regular. Buckley has broke through under Mowbray and been trusted at times when sceptics (myself included) were unsure to become a regular first teamer. Whenever fit, Rankin Costello is seen by the manager as a safe pair of hands (not one that I have ever been truly convinced by) to fill in numerous positions. Wharton after a few loan spells was establishing himself as a regular last season prior to injury. The likes of Carter, Butterworth and Magloire have also been dipped in occasionally perhaps due to necessity, even though none of those 3 have really taken their chances.

But yeah, Mowbray has not been taking this club forward for 18 months, I think I have been consistent in asking for change throughout that time, but it highlights what we are dealing with in that it has never seemed likely at any point during those 18 months. I just can't abide by anyone in any way defending or praising the owners considering what we continue to see before us. Even praising them for merely raising the share capital to offset the debts for one of their businesses that they themselves neglect otherwise as if it is a good deed, how low are our standards? Standing in the cold in an empty Ewood last night watching a crap manager and a crap set of players get thumped by a record scoreline whilst our owners are on the other side of the world probably totally unaware, it just makes me sick.

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I wasn't defending him, but Mowbray isn't the problem. Ultimately throughout his time here following promotion, we have never been genuinely close to a relegation fight, nor have we come close to overachieving (which any manager would have to do to get us into the top 6, we don't have the resources of a top 6 side, but overachieving is possible as a team a season tends to prove, Coventry and Barnsley are 2 examples) and pushing on properly in his time here. Had he not been allowed to outstay his welcome so long, he would leave with his head held high, as it is, it has become a little bitter and sour. To be pedantic, you could argue that throwing his possession experiment in the bin shows that he isnt as stubborn as he seems and it has got "us up the table" slightly. His reign hasn't been disastrous, we haven't tumbled down the leagues and not returned, we have not been embroiled in constant battles at the bottom, he just is clearly incapable of pushing us on yet is left to linger because our owners don't give a shit. 

To go off on a tangent, the following is blatantly untrue as far as I am concerned, "We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively." Which youngsters are you referring to? Lenihan was a poor midfielder prior to Mowbray coming in, now he is captain. Nyambe was only just breaking into the team occasionally under Coyle, now he is a regular. Travis came through under Mowbray and since he did, he has been a regular. Buckley has broke through under Mowbray and been trusted at times when sceptics (myself included) were unsure to become a regular first teamer. Whenever fit, Rankin Costello is seen by the manager as a safe pair of hands (not one that I have ever been truly convinced by) to fill in numerous positions. Wharton after a few loan spells was establishing himself as a regular last season prior to injury. The likes of Carter, Butterworth and Magloire have also been dipped in occasionally perhaps due to necessity, even though none of those 3 have really taken their chances.

But yeah, Mowbray has not been taking this club forward for 18 months, I think I have been consistent in asking for change throughout that time, but it highlights what we are dealing with in that it has never seemed likely at any point during those 18 months. I just can't abide by anyone in any way defending or praising the owners considering what we continue to see before us. Even praising them for merely raising the share capital to offset the debts for one of their businesses that they themselves neglect otherwise as if it is a good deed, how low are our standards? Standing in the cold in an empty Ewood last night watching a crap manager and a crap set of players get thumped by a record scoreline whilst our owners are on the other side of the world probably totally unaware, it just makes me sick.

Again, to start, you repeatedly mention it, but I don't know or see anyone defending or praising the owners? Stating the facts and reality of the situation , isn't praise, or indeed a defence. 

I agree 100% if he left earlier, he could have done so with his head held high and most would have been happy with the decent job he had done, however we are well beyond that now.  

Yes, the 5/6 players you mention have come through alright (and you even forgot Dolan), but I am more referring to his handling of and usage of the squad. So say last season and this has happened before, he knew loads of players were leaving/out of contract, but rather than give those who were doing well for the under 23s a run in dead rubbers near the end, he continued with those who wouldn't even be here. I would also say how he speaks doesn't encourage young players to show their individuality, I think he hammers them over minor issues around how they are off the ball choice of pass, the type of stuff he ignores when say Captain Benno or Johnson do it. I mean he wasn't Xavi playing himself and isn't Pep now. Playing Buckley centre forward for example, its hardly helping the lad. 

Ya, it's a brutal state of affairs and they are absentee owners, but Mowbray himself said he would walk if a burden, yet he didn't/won't and we can say who would blame him, but at the end of the day it was him reneging on his word. He has been given time and money, didn't have to sell, yet we are where we are. He knows himself that overall he has failed.