Tony Mowbray Discussion

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Its strongly rumoured in the press this morning that another defeat for Warnock and he'll be in the dole queue with McCarthy and Houghton. Just further strengthens the point that its not easy to compete in this league with little or no budget against the Premiership parachute mob.

 

It shows the yesterdays men are running out of steam at championship level. It's often been the case though that certain guys suit certain clubs at certain times.

Mowbray here was good example for a few years, all by chance not planning. McCarthy at Ipswich and arguably Colin Wanker when he first went to Cardiff.  And there is the flip side to that with Hughton who has a decent track record but flopped at Forest.  Then the other 2 in their most recent gigs.

Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't i think thats always been the case. The landscape is changing though so time for something fresh.

Edited November 6, 2021 by tomphil

[Ulrich]

46 minutes ago, Gav said:

I saw an interview with Ryan Nelson recently, superb captain, loved by the fans and very well respected.

He was called up by Barry Chuckle (Agnew) out of the blue and told to pack his bags, clean out his locker, say bye to nobody and leave the clubs training ground immediately, the owners had released him from his contract without any discussion whatsoever. Within 24hrs he'd signed for Spurs and Barry Chuckle was back on the phone asking what he was playing at, the club now wanted a transfer fee for him, needless to say he was told to piss off.

These aren't isolated incidents for badly advised owners, they systematically dismantled that squad to cut costs to the bone, its bordering on criminal with some evidence to support that allegedly. 

Anyone now telling me that they're willing to listen, they're willing to learn, they're talking to fans, whilst we languish in midtable championship obscurity because of that kind of behaviour, can go forth and multiply with the greatest of respect. 

Get rid of all the players who have the club at heart, before pillaging every penny from it. The decline is deliberately being administered, no one makes this many mistakes, especially when their other businesses thrive.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, lraC said:

I am not too sure if Lambert was the only manager we have appointed, who was not under the HSH agency or their connections, but that's how it appears and Lambert was out of the door, in no time at all.

Lambert is from HSH agency I believe 

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lambert is from HSH agency I believe 

That would make sense. I wasn't sure, so thanks for clarifying, which i guess adds even more weight to my post.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Its strongly rumoured in the press this morning that another defeat for Warnock and he'll be in the dole queue with McCarthy and Houghton. Just further strengthens the point that its not easy to compete in this league with little or no budget against the Premiership parachute mob.

 

Gav, Mowbray has been back massively by the owners in the past 3 seasons whether its transfer fees, loan fees or wages of those signings..he can't have it both wages

1 hour ago, lraC said:

 

His comment about Pep not coming is as the next manager and eluding to us, getting more of the same, may well make some sense, as the pot of mangers, under the agency Venky's insist on using, almost certainly mean, we won't be appointing anyone, with any real pedigree.

Oh is this a dig at fans suggesting other managers to replace him like Ainsworth, Wilder and Neil..

[roversinmyblood]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lambert is from HSH agency I believe 

Are there any decent managers available who are with HSH?

[RoverCanada]

8 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

Wasn't there talk of Ben Marshall being offered a new deal years back, only for the player himself to say otherwise on a podcast recently?

No, Marshall said there was a decent contract offer on the table (and no less than he ended up signing for at Wolves), but he was (rightfully) worried we were going to get relegated (and have his contract halved with the relegation clause) and refused to sign (despite Coyle's pleas... haha)

My favourite part of that story is Coyle then froze him out of the squad, he went on the lash in Dublin for 3 weeks and Wolves couldn't believe his physical after they signed him haha...

I thought it was interesting that he also confirmed in that interview we did get up to £2m from Wolves. There was a fair amount of noise on here that we'd be lucky to get £200k given he only had 6 months left...

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

I saw an interview with Ryan Nelson recently, superb captain, loved by the fans and very well respected.

He was called up by Barry Chuckle (Agnew) out of the blue and told to pack his bags, clean out his locker, say bye to nobody and leave the clubs training ground immediately, the owners had released him from his contract without any discussion whatsoever. Within 24hrs he'd signed for Spurs and Barry Chuckle was back on the phone asking what he was playing at, the club now wanted a transfer fee for him, needless to say he was told to piss off.

These aren't isolated incidents for badly advised owners, they systematically dismantled that squad to cut costs to the bone, its bordering on criminal with some evidence to support that allegedly. 

Anyone now telling me that they're willing to listen, they're willing to learn, they're talking to fans, whilst we languish in midtable championship obscurity because of that kind of behaviour, can go forth and multiply with the greatest of respect. 

Yes I've seen that interview with Ryan, he was plainly upset at the devious way his Rovers departure was handled.

A shameful part of our history. Venkys are good at that.

[den]

1 hour ago, Ulrich said:

Get rid of all the players who have the club at heart, before pillaging every penny from it. The decline is deliberately being administered, no one makes this many mistakes, especially when their other businesses thrive.

I wouldn’t say the decline is being deliberately administered Tbh.

Look, when Venkys came in 11 years ago, Jerome Anderson and probably the trustees had persuaded them that the way forward for BRFC was to sell off or pay off all of their first team squad and move forwards by developing their own youngsters. It was obvious what they were doing.

There were varying viewpoints between the fans over that plan. Many, and I would guess they were mainly the older fans ( not all admittedly) saw huge danger in that because they had seen it all before.  There were also many who went along with the idea. They accepted the argument that that was the way to go. 
 

Some, many fans are so “into” Rovers, so committed to rovers that they find it hard to criticise the club whatever they do. I get that, I was there at one time, in fact for a long time.

However, JA and Venkys plan has been a disaster. Whereas the trustees were putting £3m/yr into the club - a mid table PL club, they’re now putting £20m into a lower championship club.

My point is, there were, and are, many fans who don’t really question anything the club does.  In one way that’s fantastic. In another, it’s not. 
 

We can all see now what’s happened under Venkys regime. What Mowbray is telling the fans now is …..

DONT QUESTION WHAT I OR THE OWNERS ARE DOING BECAUSE THERES NO BETTER  MANAGER AND THERES NO BETTER WAY.

That’s about it. Don’t accept everything they tell you. (Not you personally Ulrich).

Edited November 6, 2021 by den

[AllRoverAsia]

9 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

No, Marshall said there was a decent contract offer on the table (and no less than he ended up signing for at Wolves), but he was (rightfully) worried we were going to get relegated (and have his contract halved with the relegation clause) and refused to sign (despite Coyle's pleas... haha)

My favourite part of that story is Coyle then froze him out of the squad, he went on the lash in Dublin for 3 weeks and Wolves couldn't believe his physical after they signed him haha...

I thought it was interesting that he also confirmed in that interview we did get up to £2m from Wolves. There was a fair amount of noise on here that we'd be lucky to get £200k given he only had 6 months left...

I've seen £1.2 million quoted. Wolves were cash rich and Lambert rated him so not too difficult to get a decent fee out of them at that time.

[booth]

8 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

I was searching for something earlier regarding Salgado's exit from Rovers and found the following article which I thought I'd share. It's an interview from Kean, posted last year by the looks of it, and it's the first time I have seen it.

https://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2020/07/17/scottish-coach-recalls-being-ordered-to-axe-real-madrid-and-spain-legend-michel-salgado/

Now, we know this guy is a serial bullshitter so I don't know how much we can read into it. However, according to Kean, Salgado was one game away from triggering a contract extension. Venky's didn't want to extend his contract so told Kean he couldn't pick him again. Kean claims that they they didn't want him to tell Salgado that it was their decision to prevent him from playing for us again.

I don't know how true that is, but it potentially puts another angle on the contract debacle we are currently facing. On the face of it we are being told that terms are on the table, which they probably are, but I'm now wondering how difficult the owners might be making things in that regard. Do they want the players gone, whilst Mowbray wants them to stay? It's hard to say, I know. Wasn't there talk of Ben Marshall being offered a new deal years back, only for the player himself to say otherwise on a podcast recently? There are too many questions but no answers.

 

I can't see it, Salgado was an Allardyce/Williams signing and 34 (I think) at the time. Venkys said themselves they were looking to buy young and "lease" players. That was obviously put into their heads by some spiv advisor.

So I can see why they would come to the conclusion that they wouldn't want to throw money away on ageing superstars.

I can't see why they wouldn't want to extend the contracts of some of our players now who they'll be able to sell on for a decent fee. It doesn't make sense even for them.

[tomphil]

The ideas, the seeds planted by Anderson and co were so they the agency could then start moving players out and in. That was their business model that's what they were in it for.

After running around giving contract extensions to all the big players to pacify them after replacing Allardyce with the snivelling rat. They then set about freezing them out and paying them off, all in the name of commission.

They they had freedom to start bringing more in like Rochina and Formica and charging a million quid per deal !

It was a sting nothing more nothing less, make as much as you can whilst you can and stuff the consequences. They should be in jail the whole lot of the greedy underhand vermin.

 

 

 

[47er]

11 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I agree with what you saying about the journey stuff, I don’t buy into that at all.

We don’t know if we offered a realistic wage or not. I would guess we did, we did for Dack who would be on far more then those 3. No matter our opinions of anyone in charge, they don’t want to lose those 3 players, to think otherwise is naive.

The more logical explanation is the 2 academy lads want to try something new, and Nyambe prob thinks he can get prem. Likewise Rothwell, who has no ties to this club, has prob been told he can get something we can’t give him.

Its becoming the norm at Rovers that we want to keep certain leading players and those players are refusing to re-sign.

Logical to think that Rovers are trying to keep them on the cheap and not making realistic offers.

[AllRoverAsia]

3 minutes ago, booth said:

I can't see it, Salgado was an Allardyce/Williams signing and 34 (I think) at the time. Venkys said themselves they were looking to buy young and "lease" players. That was obviously put into their heads by some spiv advisor.

So I can see why they would come to the conclusion that they wouldn't want to throw money away on ageing superstars.

I can't see why they wouldn't want to extend the contracts of some of our players now who they'll be able to sell on for a decent fee. It doesn't make sense even for them.

The upside of the spivs advice is that we do still have a decent academy which despite Mowbrays utterings does produce. Thank God we do or else how would we field a team?

It seems to me that Mowbray has over time decided to follow the youth route to satisfy his paymasters, add a paragraph to his CV and faced with the only option his hand forced. Sadly he prefers to develop the youth of PL teams, often at our detriment on field, but hell it looks good to tell the Vs and any future employers that you are mates with Klopp & Bielsa.

[RoverCanada]

15 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I've seen £1.2 million quoted. Wolves were cash rich and Lambert rated him so not too difficult to get a decent fee out of them at that time.

Yeah ,media quotes were something like £1.2-1.5m. Who knows in the end, but the speculation that we only got a few hundred thousand was nonsense.

So, we're in agreement: a great bit of negotiating by Venky's and co. 🙂

(I kid, I kid 🙂)

[SuperBrfc]

25 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

No, Marshall said there was a decent contract offer on the table (and no less than he ended up signing for at Wolves), but he was (rightfully) worried we were going to get relegated (and have his contract halved with the relegation clause) and refused to sign (despite Coyle's pleas... haha)

Ah ok, I stand corrected.

[tomphil]

22 minutes ago, 47er said:

Its becoming the norm at Rovers that we want to keep certain leading players and those players are refusing to re-sign.

Logical to think that Rovers are trying to keep them on the cheap and not making realistic offers.

There hasn't been the turnover of players there was discounting the loans and Vs haven't been willing sellers to be fair.  So the middlemen and agents have to get their commission somehow.

[lraC]

28 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

It's a very interesting read. I had forgotten about some of those details. I don't think much has changed going off the last few years. I've felt for a while now that the new agency (in name only) may be calling the shots, hence Mowbray being unsackable. When he does leave it's highly likely that the next man in is going to be another one of their clients.

Like you, I had also forgotten some of the details, but we owe it to ourselves to keep on remembering. I am convinced someone else is calling the shots and maybe there was a cryptic message in Mowbray's press conference, when he pretty much said, if I go, all you will get, is more of the same.

[booth]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

He was called up by Barry Chuckle (Agnew) out of the blue and told to pack his bags, clean out his locker, say bye to nobody and leave the clubs training ground immediately, the owners had released him from his contract without any discussion whatsoever. Within 24hrs he'd signed for Spurs and Barry Chuckle was back on the phone asking what he was playing at, the club now wanted a transfer fee for him, needless to say he was told to piss off.

 

Here you go. Speed it on to 1:06:05.
 

 

[booth]

41 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

The upside of the spivs advice is that we do still have a decent academy which despite Mowbrays utterings does produce. Thank God we do or else how would we field a team?

It seems to me that Mowbray has over time decided to follow the youth route to satisfy his paymasters, add a paragraph to his CV and faced with the only option his hand forced. Sadly he prefers to develop the youth of PL teams, often at our detriment on field, but hell it looks good to tell the Vs and any future employers that you are mates with Klopp & Bielsa.

I don't think that's what the spivs had in mind. I think it was more bring in the foreign unproven kids on our books and then make a whacking great signing on fee from it.

Edited November 6, 2021 by booth

[booth]

10 minutes ago, lraC said:

Like you, I had also forgotten some of the details, but we owe it to ourselves to keep on remembering. I am convinced someone else is calling the shots and maybe there was a cryptic message in Mowbray's press conference, when he pretty much said, if I go, all you will get, is more of the same.

Yes but then you remember that Mowbray has been shit at pretty much every club he's managed. Same mistakes, weird formations, playing players out of position, scattershot transfer policy.

[lraC]

7 minutes ago, booth said:

Yes but then you remember that Mowbray has been shit at pretty much every club he's managed. Same mistakes, weird formations, playing players out of position, scattershot transfer policy.

You have have miss interpreted my post, I am not defending Mowbray, quite the opposite.

[lraC]

18 minutes ago, booth said:

 

Here you go. Speed it on to 1:06:05.
 

 

I wonder if the call was made by the agent, who was working for nothing at the time, who got the place rocking? After all his son came in, who played in the same position as Ryan and was surely an upgrade, just a late developer. He is developing very well at Braintree right now I believe.

This is almost certainly still going on, under the guise, of the players have been offered a good contract, but won't sign.

[booth]

2 minutes ago, lraC said:

You have have miss interpreted my post, I am not defending Mowbray, quite the opposite.

You said you were convinced someone else was calling the shots and there was a cryptic message that we'd get more of the same if he left. I take that as he's saying don't blame me.

I don't think it's that complicated as he's got a history of doing just as poorly at other clubs.

[booth]

5 minutes ago, lraC said:

I wonder if the call was made by the agent, who was working for nothing at the time, who got the place rocking? After all his son came in, who played in the same position as Ryan and was surely an upgrade, just a late developer. He is developing very well at Braintree right now I believe.

This is almost certainly still going on, under the guise, of the players have been offered a good contract, but won't sign.

20 clubs he's been at. All those signing on fees. Tells you everything.