Tony Mowbray Discussion

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not every player should be signed to make a profit on, and conversation about wages and signing on fees is purely speculative. 

It isnt speculative, if you want to believe those players took a significant drop in wages to come here without something to compensate  it then id say you are living in a fairytale.

 

[islander200]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not every player should be signed to make a profit on, and conversation about wages and signing on fees is purely speculative. 

And not every player has been signed for a profit.Isnt that the point im making with those 3 mentioned?

[RevidgeBlue]

5 hours ago, Spartakfenni said:

Can you provide evidence to back up your quotes, don’t include journalists other itk’s. Hard evidence please

Why are you asking him for hard evidence when you won't provide any for your assertion BB was a "Balaji purchase"

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

No i understood but the other deals Ayala,Johnson ,Holtby werent really free transfers over the terms of their contracts and whatever signing on fees involved were expensive deals, Brererton is on a reported 4k a week here.Ayala ,Holtby and Johnson on 20+ at their previous clubs.No return on investment coming from that outlay and commitment unless promotion

I find it hard to believe a 7m player only get 4k.  That's a league 1 wage.  He will be off for free in my opinion 

[booth]

2 hours ago, islander200 said:

His agent was drawing up the contract and allegedly practically running the club at the time

As confirmed by the John Williams letter and himself on Sky Sports.

[Spartakfenni]

9 hours ago, islander200 said:

Yes but giving 2 and 3 year deals to the likes of Ayala,Johnson and Holtby and then the shorter term players , Rodwell and Downing, these fellas were on more money at their previous clubs than our highest earner, logically they would have been compensated with significant signing on fees.Johnson isnt walking away from a lucrative  year at Derby to come here for a lot less.

 

Johnson didn’t walk away from Derby, he was out of contract there and they didn’t offer him a new one as they thought his legs had gone. Mowbray took a punt on him for his experience. His form has been a mixed bag.

K - as for evidence I don’t take journalists crap as evidence.

[Ulrich]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

I repeat, why would there be any sort of bonus at all for taking the club down 2 divisions? Why is that clause in there?

Do you believe any other manager had such a provision? Something dodgy here as there was about the whole takeover.

It suggests they expected to end up in league one, almost as if it was planned.

[Gav]

44 minutes ago, Spartakfenni said:

Johnson didn’t walk away from Derby, he was out of contract there and they didn’t offer him a new one as they thought his legs had gone. Mowbray took a punt on him for his experience. His form has been a mixed bag.

K - as for evidence I don’t take journalists crap as evidence.

I think you're spot on about the Balaji purchase of Brereton, its not like it hadn't happened before (Rhodes).

Nobody in the press had even the slightest hint we were after him, which tells its own story, it came right out of the blue, something didn't add up.

It seems to me like Mowbray wasn't given the option of spending £7m on players, he was given 1 choice, young domestic striker to develop and sell on, then Balaji can show off to his mates in India.

Looks to have worked too.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Spartakfenni said:

Johnson didn’t walk away from Derby, he was out of contract there and they didn’t offer him a new one as they thought his legs had gone. Mowbray took a punt on him for his experience. His form has been a mixed bag.

K - as for evidence I don’t take journalists crap as evidence.

Right, but you’ll happily use your own opinion (which in itself is conjecture), whilst demanding other people supply evidence, which you then dismiss as conjecture.

Okay then.

[tomphil]

Does Barry want promotion or just investment signings and kids to sell on so his pals in the middle can make their cut ?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Where is the match thread?? 

[islander200]

2 hours ago, Spartakfenni said:

Johnson didn’t walk away from Derby, he was out of contract there and they didn’t offer him a new one as they thought his legs had gone. Mowbray took a punt on him for his experience. His form has been a mixed bag.

K - as for evidence I don’t take journalists crap as evidence.

Johnson had one year left on his derby contract actually.

Derby thought his legs were gone so Mowbray gives the green light for a 2 + 1 year contract for him?Great decision making and management

Where is your evidence Brererton was a Balaji signing?

Edited November 24, 2021 by islander200

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

I think you're spot on about the Balaji purchase of Brereton, its not like it hadn't happened before (Rhodes).

Nobody in the press had even the slightest hint we were after him, which tells its own story, it came right out of the blue, something didn't add up.

It seems to me like Mowbray wasn't given the option of spending £7m on players, he was given 1 choice, young domestic striker to develop and sell on, then Balaji can show off to his mates in India.

Looks to have worked too.

Yet Mowbray confirmed that Celina who joined Swansea for 8 million was close only for Swansea offered better wages.

If the money was only for a young striker how do you explain the multiple bids for Luke Freeman at QPR that summer, a 26 year old and an attacking midfielder?

If thats your opinion about Brereton then fair enough but why have you been praising Mowbray for the signing so?

Edited November 24, 2021 by islander200

[Gav]

21 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Yet Mowbray confirmed that Celina who joined Swansea for 8 million was close only for Swansea offered better wages.

If the money was only for a young striker how do you explain the multiple bids for Luke Freeman at QPR that summer, a 26 year old and an attacking midfielder?

If thats your opinion about Brereton then fair enough but why have you been praising Mowbray for the signing so?

My apologies Islander, I shouldn't have said striker, young domestic players like Dack, Cairney, Duffy, Gallagher, Brereton, Dolan (Free), Rothwell, Armstrong as I mentioned to you last night.

As for your final question on Brereton, Mowbray picked and developed the player, Balaji paid for it, Mowbray gets the praise surely? He's certainly had pelters for the past 2 seasons for him being cr@p......you can't have it both ways.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

My apologies Islander, I shouldn't have said striker, young domestic players like Dack, Cairney, Duffy, Gallagher, Brereton, Dolan (Free), Rothwell, Armstrong as I mentioned to you last night.

As for your final question on Brereton, Mowbray picked and developed the player, Balaji paid for it, Mowbray gets the praise surely? He's certainly had pelters for the past 2 seasons for him being cr@p......you can't have it both ways.

The owners pay for every signing so what makes the Brererton deal different that Balajis name is being brought into it?

Luke Freeman who we had multiple bids turned down for that summer was 26.

Mowbray had money to spend that summer,we had multiple bids turned down for other players.Forest didnt make Brererton available until very late in rhe window, even hiring an agent to get him sold.He was offered to the club

And if the club remit is to sign young domestic players with room for growth and potential profit then what is the problem with that?

Surely that would be the sensible way to run our club with the income we have.

[Gav]

24 minutes ago, islander200 said:

The owners pay for every signing so what makes the Brererton deal different that Balajis name is being brought into it?

Luke Freeman who we had multiple bids turned down for that summer was 26.

Mowbray had money to spend that summer,we had multiple bids turned down for other players.Forest didnt make Brererton available until very late in rhe window, even hiring an agent to get him sold.He was offered to the club

And if the club remit is to sign young domestic players with room for growth and potential profit then what is the problem with that?

Surely that would be the sensible way to run our club with the income we have.

I've given my opinion on the Balaji factor already.

Brereton wasn't available at all until we weighed in with a bid they couldn't turn down, that came out of the blue and took Forest and everyone else by surprise. 

[Gone to seed]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Where is the match thread?? 

Port Out Starboard Home = POSH = Peterborough = Keep up!!

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

I've given my opinion on the Balaji factor already.

Brereton wasn't available at all until we weighed in with a bid they couldn't turn down, that came out of the blue and took Forest and everyone else by surprise. 

Your last paragraph is simply not true.Check it back.Brereton was made available by forest they needed money brought in as they had spent big that summer.It was highly publicised at the time that Forest were touting him to other clubs and even hired an agent to get a deal done.They stated at the time they wouldnt be selling for less than 7 million.

And as for Balaji wanting to show off to his mates over making profit on a young player(you mentioned Rhodes earlier).The owners did not want to sell Rhodes, i know for a fact that we turned down bigger bids than the 1 we eventually accepted and Rhodes wanted out way before we sold him.

And even after we sold him we hardly made a profit considering we paid 8 million for him and been paying him 35 grand a week

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

I think you're spot on about the Balaji purchase of Brereton, its not like it hadn't happened before (Rhodes).

Nobody in the press had even the slightest hint we were after him, which tells its own story, it came right out of the blue, something didn't add up.

It seems to me like Mowbray wasn't given the option of spending £7m on players, he was given 1 choice, young domestic striker to develop and sell on, then Balaji can show off to his mates in India.

Looks to have worked too.

I agree. The cash we spent on Brereton I don't believe was available to Mowbray from the start of the summer window and had strings attached - it could only be spent on a certain category of player.

I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that the money could have been split into 2-3 decent sums invested into 2-3 different positions, because if it could Mowbray woud have done that instead.

It has too many similarities to the Rhodes deal - last minute, sudden, unexpected splash of the cash to such an amount the selling club couldn't say no.

I suspect it was a bonus that Mowbray felt forced to use due to pressure from upstairs and also the risk that it wouldn't be there in future windows if he didn't spend it there and then.

This is life in Venky world.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I do wonder about this stuff in relation to Brereton being a Balaji pet project. I can't help but feel it it gives Balaji credit for being more in touch with that club and football in general than he is. 

I reckon we had close to the money as it was reported we were in for Freeman at around 4.5 million. The Brereton deal could have been structured in a similar way, like 1.5 million paid off per year or something like that. I would put it in the category of panic buy , that we weren't actually in a panic for. 

[islander200]

18 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I agree. The cash we spent on Brereton I don't believe was available to Mowbray from the start of the summer window and had strings attached - it could only be spent on a certain category of player.

I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that the money could have been split into 2-3 decent sums invested into 2-3 different positions, because if it could Mowbray woud have done that instead.

It has too many similarities to the Rhodes deal - last minute, sudden, unexpected splash of the cash to such an amount the selling club couldn't say no.

I suspect it was a bonus that Mowbray felt forced to use due to pressure from upstairs and also the risk that it wouldn't be there in future windows if he didn't spend it there and then.

This is life in Venky world.

So the bids for Celina and Freeman that summer added to the other players that were brought in was just my imagination?

And wasnt the Rhodes deal put foward to Shebby Singh by Glen Mullan and the fans group?

Edited November 24, 2021 by islander200

[Gav]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I do wonder about this stuff in relation to Brereton being a Balaji pet project. I can't help but feel it it gives Balaji credit for being more in touch with that club and football in general than he is. 

I reckon we had close to the money as it was reported we were in for Freeman at around 4.5 million. The Brereton deal could have been structured in a similar way, like 1.5 million paid off per year or something like that. I would put it in the category of panic buy , that we weren't actually in a panic for. 

I think you misunderstand my point, or maybe I do yours Bigdogs.

All that Balaji was doing was providing the money, he wasn't aware of the players involved, but I take your point on a pet project, is he even capable of conjuring up such an idea 😃

[Gav]

7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

So the bids for Celina and Freeman that summer added to the other players that were brought in was just my imagination?

And wasnt the Rhodes deal put foward to Shebby Singh by Glen Mullan and the fans group?

Nobody really knows Islander, lets be honest, who wanted to buy Raul from Real Madrid? Balaji!

Edited November 24, 2021 by Gav

[JHRover]

7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

So the bids for Celina and Freeman that summer added to the other players that were brought in was just my imagination?

And wasnt the Rhodes deal put foward to Shebby Singh by Glen Mullan and the fans group?

I don't remember any serious interest or reports of it in Celina.

Freeman was similar to Brereton - it suddenly came about a couple of weeks before the window slammed shut and raised eyebrows because it seemed completely bizarre that we suddenly had the cash at our disposal to go and sign QPRs star player.

QPR weren't playing ball though and rejected the approach, which led directly to us moving for Brereton instead.

If we had that cash to spend and had targeted Brereton earlier he would have been signed earlier that summer. Instead we had to get him on loan with an agreement to buy in January because we were so late with it - certainly doesn't suggest there was much of a plan.

I think that one of the Venkys decided to chuck some of their own cash into the transfer pot - no doubt in a phase of interest and excitement following promotion - and it was a case of spend it now or risk it not being there in January.

You mention the other players brought in that summer - you are correct there were plenty of signings - but none of them major cash buys which is why suddenly throwing money around on Brereton in the final week of the window seemed so odd and inconsistent. Prior to the Brereton deal and Freeman bid there had been Jack Rodwell and Joe Rothwell (free), Armstrong (£1.5 million), Palmer & Reed on loan and Davenport for a small fee.

So 2 loans, 2 free agents, Davenport for a couple of hundred grand and then Mowbray's project Armstrong for a reaonable but not massive fee. Then all of a sudden £7 million goes out on a teenage striker in the last days of the window? Very strange.

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, Gav said:

I think you misunderstand my point, or maybe I do yours Bigdogs.

All that Balaji was doing was providing the money, he wasn't aware of the players involved, but I take your point on a pet project, is he even capable of conjuring up such an idea 😃

No, I think we are on same theme. I'm just not sure it was that much "extra" seeing as we were in for Freeman at around 4.5 million. I think as usual we just missed out on players near the end of the window and the Brereton deal fell our way. Lucky it did now 

We could have been paying either deal off in installments , so I don't think there is much of a story to it