Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Wheelton Blue]

1 hour ago, Roverinbelfast said:

Wasting 2 seasons is a myth that some churn out. Normally the very people who have back led themselves onto such an anti Mowbray corner they can no longer give him credit for anything, be it good transfer business or and excellent start to this season. This is who I see it and I'd I know and have spoke to many others who agree. (not on this board) 

Season 1 (half season). A team that coyle had all but relegated. Chalked up with points with an awful squad and took it to the last day only to go down on points. Gallant effort but not his fault. 

Season 2 - automatic promotion. Job done. 

Season 3 - very good first season back. Never in danger of going down or not good enough to challenge to go up. Mid table. Happy enough 

Season 4. Overhaul of the squad begins, mulgrew etc out, again. Mid table but slightly better points total (progress none the less) 

Season 5. Big squad assembled. Expectations rose to play offs bare minimum. Decent start but hit a horrific death spiral. The infamous 2 in 17 was simply not good enough and he should have walked / left at the end of the season. 

Season 6. Major cuts to the playing squad die to ffp and the covid hitting income. All fans still pee'd off his still here. Maybe he had enough credit in the bank with the owners to give it one last go. 

Great start to the season. Flirting with the playoffs and looking stronger game by game (TBC) 

 

It's not a myth, it's fact.

15th, 10th, 15th finishes shows no progression. Therefore, a waste.

Everything else - FFP and Covid for example - is just excuses.

As I've said elsewhere, however, it would be churlish not to praise him for this season thus far. He's far surpassed my expectations.

 

[Mattyblue]

Would he have gone at a normal club last season? Yes, he had lost the plot big time towards the end and even he was pretty much asking for his P45 in interviews.

But we aren’t normal, so all you can do is hope he learns from his mistakes - and he has us 4th going into December with a pretty small and young squad. 

You can only say kudos to the job he is doing this term, he has a hell of a lot of flaws, but he obviously has a knack of galvanising a tight unit of young lads and having them running through brick walls for him and their teammates.

Is there a decision to be made at the end of the season? Yes, especially as we usually tend to fall away in the new year and revert to the mediocre mean, but he’s obviously safe as houses until at least May, so let’s just hope he continues with his back to basics approach.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Mattyblue

[1864roverite]

I think a difference might just be the solid platform we currently stand on. 33 points already in the bag, scoring goals, keeping clean sheets and watching that team embracing each other says there is a fantastic team spirit within. It’s not all bad at the club.

seems to me any apathy isn’t within the playing department 👍

Long may it continue 

[Roverinbelfast]

3 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

It's not a myth, it's fact.

15th, 10th, 15th finishes shows no progression. Therefore, a waste.

Everything else - FFP and Covid for example - is just excuses.

As I've said elsewhere, however, it would be churlish not to praise him for this season thus far. He's far surpassed my expectations.

 

15 to 10 is progress. If we had of continued in that fashion we would have finished 5th the following season. 

We didn't and I have freely admitted he should have gone after last season. But he didn't, as said maybe his previous work gave him enough credit in the bank to have one last shot this season 

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Roverinbelfast said:

15 to 10 is progress. If we had of continued in that fashion we would have finished 5th the following season. 

We didn't and I have freely admitted he should have gone after last season. But he didn't, as said maybe his previous work gave him enough credit in the bank to have one last shot this season 

"Previous work?"

2 pretty poor and one very poor finish in my book.

Delighted with this season however. Completely the opposite of what I expected and I've always said if we go up I don't mind who's in charge, be it Kean, Coyle or now Mowbray.

No matter what happens on the pitch I'll never forgive him and Waggott for attempting to flog off part of Brockhall though.

 

[FortressEwood]

13 hours ago, matt83 said:

A legend?!?! Jesus wept. A relegation, a division 3 promotion and mid table championship finishes never cracking the top 10 while being allowed to run the club at a £20 million loss every season. Swipes at fans and inciting fan on fan altercations. That’s a very low bar for legend status. At best he’s the leader of some peculiar cult following.   

A relegation ensured by Coyle

A squad rebuild bringing through many Academy lads. Now 4th, 1 point behind 3rd

Compared to the 5 or 6 years before he arrived we are now a steady ship.

Yes, legend. You are on the wrong side of history.

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by FortressEwood

[Roverinbelfast]

14 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

"Previous work?"

2 pretty poor and one very poor finish in my book.

Delighted with this season however. Completely the opposite of what I expected and I've always said if we go up I don't mind who's in charge, be it Kean, Coyle or now Mowbray.

No matter what happens on the pitch I'll never forgive him and Waggott for attempting to flog off part of Brockhall though.

 

Agree with selling Brockhall. But does the manager of the football team on the pitch. Really have the authority and the remit to try and sell the training ground. That lies solely with the owners and maybe they tasked waggot for doing it. 

Listen I don't have the answers and I think the truth is none of us know goes on behind closed doors at Ewood. 

I'm also not piping up now on the back of a few good results. I just feel like all in all he's done a good enough job(last season excluded). 

 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

54 minutes ago, FortressEwood said:

A relegation ensured by Coyle

A squad rebuild bringing through many Academy lads. Now 4th, 1 point behind 3rd

Compared to the 5 or 6 years before he arrived we are now a steady ship.

Yes, legend. You are on the wrong side of history.

 

"legend" 

 

Crying out loud I've heard it all now. 

 

[Roverinbelfast]

14 hours ago, matt83 said:

A legend?!?! Jesus wept. A relegation, a division 3 promotion and mid table championship finishes never cracking the top 10 while being allowed to run the club at a £20 million loss every season. Swipes at fans and inciting fan on fan altercations. That’s a very low bar for legend status. At best he’s the leader of some peculiar cult following.   

6 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

 

Jesus wept indeed. A quick google search shows me that city ran to a 130 million pound loss 19/20. Do the fans blame pep for that? Do they even care as the owners have to pick up the tab. 

I don't need to explain why we run to a loss im sure you know why yourself. But how the heck can you blame Mowbray for that. Insane 🤣🤣🤣

Edited November 28, 2021 by Roverinbelfast

[47er]

7 minutes ago, Roverinbelfast said:

But how the heck can you blame Mowbray for that. Insane 🤣🤣🤣

I think the answer to that is obvious and stated so any times. In a nutshell its the quality of the football and the money wasted on players who shouldn't have been here. Add tactics, tinkering, subs etc and he's been the complete package.

That's his share of the blame accounted for.

Can't deny things have been much better this season.

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, FortressEwood said:

A relegation ensured by Coyle

A squad rebuild bringing through many Academy lads. Now 4th, 1 point behind 3rd

Compared to the 5 or 6 years before he arrived we are now a steady ship.

Yes, legend. You are on the wrong side of history.

 

Bowyer did similar in the championship, a guy with zero experience with the height of the craziness in the background. Didn't have the backing nor patience Mowbray has had either.

So he too must be a 'legend'

[rigger]

54 minutes ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

"legend" 

 

Crying out loud I've heard it all now. 

 

Leg End

[Roverinbelfast]

15 minutes ago, 47er said:

I think the answer to that is obvious and stated so any times. In a nutshell its the quality of the football and the money wasted on players who shouldn't have been here. Add tactics, tinkering, subs etc and he's been the complete package.

That's his share of the blame accounted for.

Can't deny things have been much better this season.

 

Maybe we see things differently. He is given a budget surely and wether the quality of the signings are good and not, he still should be operating within a set budget. 

The fact that it leads to an overspend every season is something for the owners to look at. 

But we all know, if the owners cut that budget to match what our current revenue is, I would say things could be much much worse than they are currently 

[Wheelton Blue]

17 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Bowyer did similar in the championship, a guy with zero experience with the height of the craziness in the background. Didn't have the backing nor patience Mowbray has had either.

So he too must be a 'legend'

And 2 or 3 years after Mowbray does leave, we'll talk about him with the same regularity as we do now with Bowyer.

ie hardly ever at all.

[DeeCee]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

Leg End

Bell end

[booth]

If he gets the club promoted, which is a massive stretch given his previous tinkering reputation and the squad depth, then he will be a legend. 

Anyone who manages to achieve that under Venkys ownership deserves a medal made of pure gold.

But I simply can’t believe TM will be able to resist the urge to play around with the team. It’s difficult to get giddy when you know that he’s easily capable of dropping such a massive tactical bollock.

Could it be that as Tomphil said he’s under pressure from above to deliver and he’s limited the tinkering and instead playing to the teams strengths finally? Or has he struck lucky?

[Miker]

5 hours ago, tomphil said:

Bowyer did similar in the championship, a guy with zero experience with the height of the craziness in the background. Didn't have the backing nor patience Mowbray has had either.

So he too must be a 'legend'

Bowyer had a much bigger budget to work with than Mowbray. We were still getting parachute money when he was in charge. He had the likes of Hanley, Duffy, Dann, Cairney, King, Conway, Rhodes, Gestede in his squads.

Mowbray’s squads have primarily consisted of League One and academy players.

I don’t know how people can say Bowyer didn’t have adequate backing or patience. 

[matt83]

9 hours ago, FortressEwood said:

A relegation ensured by Coyle

A squad rebuild bringing through many Academy lads. Now 4th, 1 point behind 3rd

Compared to the 5 or 6 years before he arrived we are now a steady ship.

Yes, legend. You are on the wrong side of history.

 

 

8 hours ago, Roverinbelfast said:

Jesus wept indeed. A quick google search shows me that city ran to a 130 million pound loss 19/20. Do the fans blame pep for that? Do they even care as the owners have to pick up the tab. 

I don't need to explain why we run to a loss im sure you know why yourself. But how the heck can you blame Mowbray for that. Insane 🤣🤣🤣

I sense you’re both getting a little bit giddy because of our temporary lofty league position before the inevitable death spiral down to at best mid table. We’ve been here many times.

Mowbray is an average manager doing an average job (in many ways a poor mans Gary Bowyer). 10th - 14th is what he’s capable of delivering and to date has only delivered. In terms of blaming him for the overspending, clearly it’s not his fault but he’s partially to blame putting players on too much money and extending contracts of players surplus to requirements (and yes I do partially blame managers for reckless spending whether it was ‘arty at Portsmouth but the lions share of the blame lies with the bean counters). Unless of course you’re buying the guff he doesn’t get involved in the negotiations. 

I’ll wager you’re both quite young and haven’t seen rovers as anything other than a shambles but if you honestly think Mowbray is a legend I can assure you there’s at least 100 ahead of him. So I suppose we’re blessed to have so many legends. 

[jim mk2]

10 hours ago, FortressEwood said:

A relegation ensured by Coyle

A squad rebuild bringing through many Academy lads. Now 4th, 1 point behind 3rd

Compared to the 5 or 6 years before he arrived we are now a steady ship.

Yes, legend. You are on the wrong side of history.

 

If Mowbray is a “legend” what word would you use to describe genuine managerial “legends” (horrible word anyway - what does it mean?) such as Dalglish and Souness? You know, managers who’ve actually won trophies? 
 

 

[47er]

I think anyone who stays in a managerial job for so long, with such dreadful results till now is truly a legend---like Dick Turpin!

[Spartakfenni]

11 hours ago, FortressEwood said:

A relegation ensured by Coyle

A squad rebuild bringing through many Academy lads. Now 4th, 1 point behind 3rd

Compared to the 5 or 6 years before he arrived we are now a steady ship.

Yes, legend. You are on the wrong side of history.

 

Sorry Fortress I can’t agree with you. Developing the academy lads starts with their recruitment, and then polished by the coaches starting with Johnson and now Sheron. The only reason most of these lads have been given a chance is down to ffp and not Mowbray. If he’d had the resources more journeymen signings ala Johnson would have been brought in. He just been lucky to have an exceptional academy team behind him.

legend my arse.

[tomphil]

5 hours ago, Miker said:

Bowyer had a much bigger budget to work with than Mowbray. We were still getting parachute money when he was in charge. He had the likes of Hanley, Duffy, Dann, Cairney, King, Conway, Rhodes, Gestede in his squads.

Mowbray’s squads have primarily consisted of League One and academy players.

I don’t know how people can say Bowyer didn’t have adequate backing or patience. 

 Come on stop twisting it to sui,t you and everyone else knows he himself was operating under cutbacks whilst the parachute money was all spaffing straight through the club.

What do he pay collectively for Conway, Marshall, Evans, Gestede, Duffy and Cairney ?   Peanuts really about 4 mill in total and they sold for at least 3 times that.  Yes he inherited Rhodes but Tony inherited Graham, Mulgrew etc and he's spent FIFTEEN MILLION collectively for Brereton, Gallagher and Armstrong !!!

He's also benefited from the academy crop being ripe to be integrated and as well as he's doing with that ( and he is so credit there )  GB wasn't that fortunate.  Hanley yes, Lowe, Henley etc no, they were crap as we found out.

I think due to experience Mowbray is the better all round gaffer but keeping this club in midtable during tough times AND a dose of underachieving it's a no contest really.  He's had far more of everything he hasn't even had to sell ONE star player until recently.

Would i swap them back, no, would Mowbray have got GBs squad in the play offs ?  Would he pump.  Would Bowyer have kept Mowbrays squads in midtable ?  Probably.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by tomphil

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

If Mowbray is a “legend” what word would you use to describe genuine managerial “legends” (horrible word anyway - what does it mean?) such as Dalglish and Souness? You know, managers who’ve actually won trophies? 
 

 

Not forgetting Don who won a Cup with NO money and Bobby who built most of that team also with nowt.

[Armchair supporter supremo]

8 hours ago, booth said:

If he gets the club promoted, which is a massive stretch given his previous tinkering reputation and the squad depth, then he will be a legend. 

Anyone who manages to achieve that under Venkys ownership deserves a medal made of pure gold.

But I simply can’t believe TM will be able to resist the urge to play around with the team. It’s difficult to get giddy when you know that he’s easily capable of dropping such a massive tactical bollock.

Could it be that as Tomphil said he’s under pressure from above to deliver and he’s limited the tinkering and instead playing to the teams strengths finally? Or has he struck lucky?

I do feel that for the first time he was under real pressure from above due to the aftermath of the 7nill beating and fair play SO FAR he (and the team!) have responded in the right way and it appears to have galvanised them a bit. how long it lasts we shall see, but as others have mentioned... recent history tells us it won't last long until Mowbray reverts back to type. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Armchair supporter supremo

[Armchair supporter supremo]

One thing we can all agree on... 

 

Steve Kean is a Blackburn Rovers Icon. 

 

(but obviously for all the wrong reasons)