Tony Mowbray Discussion

[RevidgeBlue]

12 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Also interesting to see the latest BRFCS reverse ferret happening elsewhere, where Mowbray, far from being in complete control of the club with no oversight whatsoever as we had been led to believe, turns out to have no power whatsoever as he was forced to get rid of his favourites and had no other choice but to play younger players!
 

That's not quite right is it, he was allowed free rein to stockpile players and bring the Club to it's knees by our over indulgent owners and was only halted in his tracks by falling foul of the FFP regulations.

Had those not existed, there's nothing to suggest the situation wouldn't have continued unabated.

[Mashed Potatoes]

38 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

See, this is the nub of the issue. 

Mowbray isn't in the same stratosphere as certain managers we have had pre Jack like Furphy, Lee and Kendall.

The most accurate comparisons are probably Saxton v Mowbray and Mackay v Mowbray.

Mackay's funding was pretty limited apart from the period after Jack took over. And whilst I wasn't a particular fan of Saxton there's no doubt he had to oversee a period when we genuinely didn't have a pot to piss in, I recall a story doing the rounds in the mid 80's that consideration was being given to flogging the table in the Boardroom to raise a few quid.

Without looking at their respective performances in detail I'd say off the top of my head Mowbray has delivered worse results than the penniless Saxton on a champagne budget and way way worse performance than Mackay who with relatively less backing delivered several back to back play off finishes.

At the end of the day Mowbray is an extremely poor manager who has carved a lucrative career in coaching out of the back of a decent playing career. He's had barely any success anywhere he's been apart from West Brom and a heavily funded promotion campaign  here and it has been more common for his managerial stints to end in disaster and the sack within a relatively short space of time.

Has also been exceptionally fortunate here to survive three very disappointing seasons,  a near record 17 game losing run and a Club record home defeat despite substantial backing.

In summary a poor man's Saxton and a very poor man's Mackay. All that said we obviously all hope that a miracle occurs and we somehow scrape up via the playoffs this season with a hungry, talented but threadbare young squad.

I missed the "near record 17 game losing run". When was that ?

More generally, Mowbray took over as manager when we were in the relegation zone and we are now in a play off position. There is simply no way any reasonable person would conclude that he "is an extremely poor manager".

[Sparks Rover]

35 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I missed the "near record 17 game losing run". When was that ?

More generally, Mowbray took over as manager when we were in the relegation zone and we are now in a play off position. There is simply no way any reasonable person would conclude that he "is an extremely poor manager".

Mogadon Out!

 

[Admiral Nelsen]

45 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

See, this is the nub of the issue. 

Mowbray isn't in the same stratosphere as certain managers we have had pre Jack like Furphy, Lee and Kendall.

The most accurate comparisons are probably Saxton v Mowbray and Mackay v Mowbray.

Mackay's funding was pretty limited apart from the period after Jack took over. And whilst I wasn't a particular fan of Saxton there's no doubt he had to oversee a period when we genuinely didn't have a pot to piss in, I recall a story doing the rounds in the mid 80's that consideration was being given to flogging the table in the Boardroom to raise a few quid.

Without looking at their respective performances in detail I'd say off the top of my head Mowbray has delivered worse results than the penniless Saxton on a champagne budget and way way worse performance than Mackay who with relatively less backing delivered several back to back play off finishes.

At the end of the day Mowbray is an extremely poor manager who has carved a lucrative career in coaching out of the back of a decent playing career. He's had barely any success anywhere he's been apart from West Brom and a heavily funded promotion campaign  here and it has been more common for his managerial stints to end in disaster and the sack within a relatively short space of time.

Has also been exceptionally fortunate here to survive three very disappointing seasons,  a near record 17 game losing run and a Club record home defeat despite substantial backing.

In summary a poor man's Saxton and a very poor man's Mackay. All that said we obviously all hope that a miracle occurs and we somehow scrape up via the playoffs this season with a hungry, talented but threadbare young squad.

 

Game of opinions, and I'm not under any illusions about Mowbray as a manager, but to be honest I find statements like he's an 'extremely poor manager' hard to take seriously. Somewhere near 50% of managers will never get another post after they lose their first job. Mowbray has managed a career over 15 years, mostly at a good level, and over 700 games. You don't get that sort of longevity without having something to offer, or without at least a half-decent body of work to fall back on.

 

That's also a very one sided view of the rest of his career. Just like at Rovers, his career elsewhere has been mixed, with very decent achievements alongside some very disappointing spells.  He won manager of the year with Hibs, where he never finished lower than fourth. The promotion season at West Brom (a season after reaching the play off final) was well funded to a point, but only because they were forced into a fire sale of most of their top earners from the previous year. He rebuilt a squad in 12 months and finished top, which was a long way from being a foregone conclusion. He failed badly at Celtic, and only had a bright start before the wheels fell off at Cov, but had two impressive years at Boro before hitting a bad run, and finished with a strong win %.

[47er]

20 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Being born in 1987 and a season ticket holder since 1992/93

Glory Hunter!

[Wheelton Blue]

Personally, I don't care what Mowbray did or didn't achieve at previous clubs.

It's what he does for Blackburn Rovers which matters for me. His last 3 finishes of 15th, 11th, 15th suggest to me that he's mediocre at best.

The fact that we're currently in 4th place though is fantastic, something for which he should be applauded and long may it continue. However, let's not overstate what he's achieved here; we've been in a playoff position for 3 days. It's where we finish at season end that should determine how he is judged.

[rog of the rovers]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

Glory Hunter!

It was all going well until age 12 in 1999, then was great til aged 25 in 2012.

Admittedly its been a bit grim since! 😂

[booth]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

Glory Hunter!

Haha, I didn't know one Rovers season ticket holder in 1992/93. Including some home and away die hard ever presents.

Admittedly I was only 15.

93/94 it seemed like everyone in the town had one.

Edited November 30, 2021 by booth

[LeftWinger]

4 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I missed the "near record 17 game losing run". When was that ?

By 'near' 17 - he means 5.

[RevidgeBlue]

36 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

By 'near' 17 - he means 5.

Alright, everyone's being very pedantic on here today, two wins in sixteen, three in seventeen was it, the third worst run in our history?

Near record 17 game "mainly" losing run if everyone is going to insist on being completely literal.

[Mashed Potatoes]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Alright, everyone's being very pedantic on here today, two wins in sixteen, three in seventeen was it, the third worst run in our history?

Near record 17 game "mainly" losing run if everyone is going to insist on being completely literal.

It's not pedantic to point out that you are distorting the facts in your increasing desperation to justify your irrational hatred of the manager - any more than it was pedantic of me to point out to another poster who claimed that Mowbray had had almost 3/4 of our relegation season in charge that the correct position was that he had had less than 1/3.

[MarkBRFC]

Whilst I don't really "blame" Mowbray that much for our relegation in 2017, it's worth noting that when he joined, we were only 2 points adrift with 15 games to play.

All we had to do was beat the mighty Burton Albion in his first game and match there results over the next 14 games.

So lets not pretend that the club was dead and buried when he joined, he certainly failed in his first task here.

Going down to the third division was the best thing to happen to Mowbray, and the worst possible thing to happen to the club.

Edited November 30, 2021 by MarkBRFC

[RevidgeBlue]

30 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Whilst I don't really "blame" Mowbray that much for our relegation in 2017, it's worth noting that when he joined, we were only 2 points adrift with 15 games to play.

All we had to do was beat the mighty Burton Albion in his first game and match there results over the next 14 games.

So lets not pretend that the club was dead and buried when he joined, he certainly failed in his first task here.

Going down to the third division was the best thing to happen to Mowbray, and the worst possible thing to happen to the club.

Yes, precisely, but let's not "distort the facts" eh!

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Alright, everyone's being very pedantic on here today, two wins in sixteen, three in seventeen was it, the third worst run in our history?

Near record 17 game "mainly" losing run if everyone is going to insist on being completely literal.

Followed by losing 6 of the next 26, which doesn’t get mentioned quite as often.

[Wheelton Blue]

8 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Followed by losing 6 of the next 26, which doesn’t get mentioned quite as often.

Aye. Including a 7-0 drubbing at home to boot.

[Blue blood]

I'll be honest. What irks me most is people saying that TM is a good manager. Now I think there's an interesting case for saying he is a decent manager, and likewise for a poor one but a good one - I can't think of one single argument to say he is a good manager. 

Consider his transfers, his league positions, the runs we have been on under him, the objectives he has had, his repeated managerial actions in team selection and formation. Even his past history prior to Rovers. I don't see how you can look at any of that and say he's a good manager we are lucky to have. At best it's he's alright, he's ok. 

One other things to consider on this.  the context of TM as Rovers manager. No other manager I can recall had so many years where results didn't matter and sales weren't forced. On our two death spirals - I struggle to see any manager at any other club surviving them. No other manager I can recall had no sales forced for 3 years. That's exceptionally favourable circumstances which need to be considered when evaluating our finishes. It also needs to be recognised that anywhere else he would have gotten the boot. That is hardly the making of a good manager, much less a legend. 

Then of course there is the man himself. A born liar it seems. A man who told us the team were acclimatising to the championship - despite most of the squad having championship experience! A man who said fans expected 95, which not even the odious one said, and not a single manager has been compared to since that time. What a man. Not only is the criteria not looking great in terms of prowess, I've real reservations about the man himself. Of course this doesn't stop him being a good manager, but since he clearly isn't, it makes it all the more baffling as to why he is held in such high esteem. 

[Gav]

Tell you what, if he manages to get this basket case of a club promoted he'll go down in history as Blackburn Rovers great, a legend and I'll be campaigning for a statue next to Jacks.

That feat would be stratospheric. 

[tomphil]

He's a bang average manager at this level who had settled in at Ewood for the long plod.  Capable of keeping the ship steady in often choppy waters but uncapable of ever pushing it forwards where it needs to go despite both healthy backing and time.

Now though partly by his own design and partly by his own floundering we might have ended up in a little period where he has found his niche. We are due a really good season by law of averages as much as anything else and hes been here long enough now to finally push for one.

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Tell you what, if he manages to get this basket case of a club promoted he'll go down in history as Blackburn Rovers great, a legend and I'll be campaigning for a statue next to Jacks.

That feat would be stratospheric. 

If we finish top ten this season he's done a grand job all things considered, top 8 or 6 he's probably over achieved ( there's a 1st time for everything )

Any kind of promotion and they should name the cathedral, town hall, and river after him.

[Spartakfenni]

12 hours ago, tomphil said:

If we finish top ten this season he's done a grand job all things considered, top 8 or 6 he's probably over achieved ( there's a 1st time for everything )

Any kind of promotion and they should name the cathedral, town hall, and river after him.

There’s some over egging going on here. He’s spent more on two players than most of the division. Given how much he’s spent I’d expect at least a playoff place. If not he’s failed. 

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Spartakfenni said:

There’s some over egging going on here. He’s spent more on two players than most of the division. Given how much he’s spent I’d expect at least a playoff place. If not he’s failed. 

Fulham, Swansea, West Brom, Sheff Utd, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Bristol City, Reading, Forest and Derby have all spent more than Mowbray I think and thats just off the top of my head and doesn't include the promotion teams from previous seasons. 

If its about money alone, we're most certainly mid table.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Gav

[Sparks Rover]

49 minutes ago, Gav said:

 

If its about money alone, we're most certainly mid table.

 

It's not.

The clubs you mention have all changed managers numerous times in the years Mogadon has been here....sometimes Gav, you just got to say its time for a change, a refresh....he's had enough time to put his plan in action.  He's failed and he should move over for another.

[AllRoverAsia]

Mowbrays win% with Rovers since promotion back to the  Championship in 2018 over 157 games is 36.31%

Bobby Saxton was 36.58% over 246 games and Don Mackay was 39.22% over 232 games.

Saxton and Mackay managed us in the Second Division, the real name of the Championship.

I seriously doubt that Mowbray will ever surpass Mackays Win% at Rovers nor will he ever win a Cup with us.

If Mowbray is a Legend then Don M is a God King.

[Gav]

51 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

It's not.

The clubs you mention have all changed managers numerous times in the years Mogadon has been here....sometimes Gav, you just got to say its time for a change, a refresh....he's had enough time to put his plan in action.  He's failed and he should move over for another.

The assertion was:

He’s spent more on two players than most of the division

I was just pointing out that was bobbins.

In response to your post Sparks, I think he now deserves until the end of the season, but you're not wrong either, most of us would have sacked him a while back. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Gav

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

19 hours ago, Gav said:

Tell you what, if he manages to get this basket case of a club promoted he'll go down in history as Blackburn Rovers great, a legend and I'll be campaigning for a statue next to Jack's.

 

 

NO NAY NEVER!