Tony Mowbray Discussion

[slowmo]

Funny how things workout , imagine if he had been sacked after the Fulham game.

[tomphil]

Mowbray has to take his share of credit for this season and the turnaround but there's also nothing saying a new manager wouldn't have this squad in a similar position.

This is a good lively hungry group of players i think they pretty much motivate themselves. Tony hasn't turned into Pep overnight but he's got things to click, hard work starts now though trying to keep up the pace and resist going back to tinkering way too much.

[Mattyblue]

I can’t see him over tinkering now, he can see the prize.

For me, half the reason he tinkered so much in previous years was down to the fact there was no real pressure on him, no danger of the sack, he got to keep a big squad, we probably wouldn’t be in a relegation scrap and probably weren’t good enough for promotion either. So why not!

Now, we’ve ended up with a relatively small squad, and to be fair, recruited smartly on players that can actually fit a system he’s tried and failed with on numerous occasions previously. 

[matt83]

13 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Mowbray has to take his share of credit for this season and the turnaround but there's also nothing saying a new manager wouldn't have this squad in a similar position.

This is a good lively hungry group of players i think they pretty much motivate themselves. Tony hasn't turned into Pep overnight but he's got things to click, hard work starts now though trying to keep up the pace and resist going back to tinkering way too much.

Yeah who’s to say what any one else may or may not have done.

Personally I’d have sacked Mowbray after the league one defeat vs Oldham which represented 3 defeats in 10 or something. Mercifully we limped to automatic promotion but have had 3 more mediocre finishes since, would that have been wrong to sack him after Oldham, it’s simply impossible to say. Although in terms of every league finish under Mowbray so far I’d expect any average manager to have achieved the same.

At the start of this season whoever was in charge - automatic promotion unfathomably brilliant season, play offs great season, 7th-10th good season, 10th-15th average season, 16th-21st bad season, relegation terrible season. Personally I expected an average to bad season (because of Mowbray) with an outside chance of relegation. So if he’s able to do top 10 I’d say he’s overachieved in a season and it’ll be the first one he has. 

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Yeah who’s to say what any one else may or may not have done.

Personally I’d have sacked Mowbray after the league one defeat vs Oldham which represented 3 defeats in 10 or something. Mercifully we limped to automatic promotion but have had 3 more mediocre finishes since, would that have been wrong to sack him after Oldham, it’s simply impossible to say. Although in terms of every league finish under Mowbray so far I’d expect any average manager to have achieved the same.

At the start of this season whoever was in charge - automatic promotion unfathomably brilliant season, play offs great season, 7th-10th good season, 10th-15th average season, 16th-21st bad season, relegation terrible season. Personally I expected an average to bad season (because of Mowbray) with an outside chance of relegation. So if he’s able to do top 10 I’d say he’s overachieved in a season and it’ll be the first one he has. 

Not the main point to your post but we didnt limp to promotion in League 1, we finished 9 points clear.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Not the main point to your post but we didnt limp to promotion in League 1, we finished 9 points clear.

It certainly felt like it. 

[Atko's Engine]

I was with TM until the 2nd half of last season, I felt he'd done well up to then, & was scuppered by injuries to key players the season before.

But I would've been happy to see him leave in summer, as Feb - April was a disaster, no doubt about it. 

But clearly he still had the players on his side, so whatever he was doing with them behind the scenes was working, whatever else it might have looked like to us as outsiders.

Imo he deserves all the credit that comes his way for galvanising this squad into what it has become, much against the odds; let's hope this ride can continue, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't. 

[rigger]

32 minutes ago, El Tombro said:

I think even the most reserved of supporters will have been in the same boat on that one. It was an oddity that he was still here, but I love nothing more than Rovers winning and eating our own words. And I'm still hungry.

If we get promotion, I will be more Humble than Uriah Heap.

[JBiz]

16 hours ago, matt83 said:

Yeah who’s to say what any one else may or may not have done.

Personally I’d have sacked Mowbray after the league one defeat vs Oldham which represented 3 defeats in 10 or something. Mercifully we limped to automatic promotion but have had 3 more mediocre finishes since, would that have been wrong to sack him after Oldham, it’s simply impossible to say. Although in terms of every league finish under Mowbray so far I’d expect any average manager to have achieved the same.

At the start of this season whoever was in charge - automatic promotion unfathomably brilliant season, play offs great season, 7th-10th good season, 10th-15th average season, 16th-21st bad season, relegation terrible season. Personally I expected an average to bad season (because of Mowbray) with an outside chance of relegation. So if he’s able to do top 10 I’d say he’s overachieved in a season and it’ll be the first one he has. 

The Oldham game was one of the worst away games I’ve ever experienced, October of that season - particularly bad memories of Bennett rounding the keeper and missing an open net and Byrne (for them) having an absolute cracker.

I probably would’ve taken a new manager at that point, however I was concerned about the overhaul of the squad, and giving the manager at least a few months (this was in October) to gel them together.

After this, we didn’t lose a game till February and comfortably finished the season in the automatic spots.

Each to their own, but to me, the idea that this is “limping to automatic promotion” is about as ridiculous as it gets. It’s a contradiction, an oxymoron. 

In hindsight to suggest anyone else would’ve achieved it? Again, completely goes in the face of reality. Go watch Sheffield Wednesday with their big budget in league one, watch “Sunderland till I die”… there are so many examples of this being far more difficult than we made it look.

As for this season - whilst I agree on your scale, I’d say the culmination of his “journey” has brought a better opportunity for anyone who picks up the reigns next.

Compared to the Blackburn Rovers TM inherited, this version is complete overhaul.

[jim mk2]

How many managers survive a record 7-0 home defeat? There have been so many occasions during his tenure when Tony should have been sacked but here he is with a young team in excellent form and pushing for promotion. It could all go wrong of course and another famous death spiral would see us drop out of the top 6 but it would appear Tony has a job at Ewood for as long as he wants it

[Sparks Rover]

2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

How many managers survive a record 7-0 home defeat? There have been so many occasions during his tenure when Tony should have been sacked but here he is with a young team in excellent form and pushing for promotion. It could all go wrong of course and another famous death spiral would see us drop out of the top 6 but it would appear Tony has a job at Ewood for as long as he wants it

If he fails to get us promote now he needs sacking 

[jim mk2]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

If he fails to get us promote now he needs sacking 

But he won’t be

[matt83]

46 minutes ago, JBiz said:

The Oldham game was one of the worst away games I’ve ever experienced, October of that season - particularly bad memories of Bennett rounding the keeper and missing an open net and Byrne (for them) having an absolute cracker.

I probably would’ve taken a new manager at that point, however I was concerned about the overhaul of the squad, and giving the manager at least a few months (this was in October) to gel them together.

After this, we didn’t lose a game till February and comfortably finished the season in the automatic spots.

Each to their own, but to me, the idea that this is “limping to automatic promotion” is about as ridiculous as it gets. It’s a contradiction, an oxymoron. 

In hindsight to suggest anyone else would’ve achieved it? Again, completely goes in the face of reality. Go watch Sheffield Wednesday with their big budget in league one, watch “Sunderland till I die”… there are so many examples of this being far more difficult than we made it look.

As for this season - whilst I agree on your scale, I’d say the culmination of his “journey” has brought a better opportunity for anyone who picks up the reigns next.

Compared to the Blackburn Rovers TM inherited, this version is complete overhaul.

After 39 games we were level on points with the mighty Shrewsbury. Whilst it might not have been a limp per se it certainly felt as though it was a struggle. At that point they more or less pressed the panic button and it was plain sailing in the last few games.

Theres some teams like sheff wed/ Sunderland with big budgets who are failing but their failures aren’t our success in the same way wolves going straight through the divisions aren’t our failure. But getting that rovers squad promoted from league one was the bare minimum and considering the other teams there finishing 2nd was below par. 

[lraC]

21 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

But he won’t be

His contact ends in the summer. Unless we go up, or come very close in the play offs, I can’t see it being renewed.

[Mattyblue]

But does that matter?

We had a fantastic bunch of players in 2001 and still didn’t get close to winning the league, and in 1992, the mighty Dalglish nearly had us missing out on the play offs entirely…but so what, it’s about the end result - promotion!

Edited January 2, 2022 by Mattyblue

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, matt83 said:

After 39 games we were level on points with the mighty Shrewsbury. Whilst it might not have been a limp per se it certainly felt as though it was a struggle. At that point they more or less pressed the panic button and it was plain sailing in the last few games.

Theres some teams like sheff wed/ Sunderland with big budgets who are failing but their failures aren’t our success in the same way wolves going straight through the divisions aren’t our failure. But getting that rovers squad promoted from league one was the bare minimum and considering the other teams there finishing 2nd was below par. 

This reminds me of a discussion I had with a famous BRFCSer who’s seemingly given up… Referring to the Charlton game as TM “giving away a trophy”…

Whilst I disagree, it’s a fair comment - perhaps I see it as a bigger achievement because of “what could’ve happened” if this club had stayed at that level for another 3 seasons….!

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

But does that matter?

We had a fantastic bunch of players in 2001 and still didn’t get close to winning the league, and in 1992, the mighty Dalglish nearly had us missing out on the play offs entirely…but so what, it’s about the end result - promotion!

Spot on.

And worth reminding the poster who thinks we limped to promotion that it was actually a season with a record number of points and league wins.

[tomphil]

Where are the league 1 winners now ?

They seemed more happy to have beaten Rovers to it than actually winning it.

[Upside Down]

Spending as little time as we did down there is far more important than whether or not we won the league.

Many a team have been sucked into the third division never to be seen again. Thankfully we do not find ourselves amongst that category.

 

 

Now let's get the fuck out of this division.

[Oldgregg86]

Whilst I completely agree getting out that division was the end goal and what mattered most the title was surrendered at charlton. There was one game left were we could have won the league and a trophy and we chose to not be professional from a club point of view and proud from a fans point of view and try and win the league. There is no excuse in my eyes for not trying to finish top and win the league. However all the talk of limping to to second is ridiculous  and any credit tony has for taking us back up is fully deserved 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Whilst I completely agree getting out that division was the end goal and what mattered most the title was surrendered at charlton. There was one game left were we could have won the league and a trophy and we chose to not be professional from a club point of view and proud from a fans point of view and try and win the league. There is no excuse in my eyes for not trying to finish top and win the league. However all the talk of limping to to second is ridiculous  and any credit tony has for taking us back up is fully deserved 

100%. The achievement of promotion and the attitude towards the title are mutually exclusive. One deserves praise, one deserves criticism.

[Mattyblue]

I honestly didn’t give a feck… and I was at Charlton. Just like I wouldn’t give a toss if we lost out to Fulham again this time (as I didn’t up against them twenty years ago!).

And to be honest, I was actually fairly happy to see the mighty Blackburn Rovers not listed as the third division ‘champion’. It was embarrassing to see a club that had been transformed by Jack, back at a level I never thought we’d see again, so just getting out of there sharpish was prize enough for me.

[Oldgregg86]

Right now I don’t give a feck how we get out the division but if it comes down to the last game for the title i want the title. 

There aren’t many trophies available , I’ve seen us win two in my life time and we should always try and do are absolute best. 
 

The only thing more embarrassing than finishing top of league one is finishing second to Wigan 

What if it was Burnley ? Would it matter then ? I don’t see how you wouldn’t want to be crowned the best in the league in any season in any league. That’s why we play isn’t it. To compete over a full season to be the best we can be ?

if we lost at charlton with a full strength team that gave its all nothing but praise for Mowbray would be given and nothing mentioned other than the praise he rightly deserves . I’m not crying myself to sleep over it but that doesn’t change the fact we should of gone all out to win that last game

[Dreams of 1995]

22 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I honestly didn’t give a feck… and I was at Charlton. Just like I wouldn’t give a toss if we lost out to Fulham again this time (as I didn’t up against them twenty years ago!).

And to be honest, I was actually fairly happy to see the mighty Blackburn Rovers not listed as the third division ‘champion’. It was embarrassing to see a club that had been transformed by Jack, back at a level I never thought we’d see again, so just getting out of there sharpish was prize enough for me.

It’s better than being listed as runners up though 

But yeah I wasn’t personally that bothered about that Charlton game because it was mission accomplished. He still should have went for it. Just showed a bit of disrespect to the other teams and also to the Club imo. 

[Mattyblue]

Is it?

1992 and 2001 are memorable as promotion winning seasons, as that is the aim of a club in a non top flight division. Not winning the ‘title’ in either of those years didn’t matter one jot to me as we ended up in the Premier League! The whole point, a means to an end as your club transforms. 

If other folk were upset that we didn’t collect a tin pot trophy on the way out of the third division, fair enough, but I don’t remember the Oxford occasion or the relief and joy on sealing promotion at Doncaster being any lessened by not possessing it…

Edited January 4, 2022 by Mattyblue