Tony Mowbray Discussion

[FGS5635]

  On 05/08/2019 at 08:51, jim mk2 said:

I can take a bad result like Saturday's on the chin because bad results can happen at any time to even the best teams but Mowbray has lost an awful lot of Brownie points by not strengthening the defence, and it is this failure more than anything that I think fans find most frustrating.

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I can forgive the defence and give him the benefit of the doubt that he is trying and the window is still open. Its the Rothwell snub that has me fuming the most

[BlackburnEnd75]

  On 05/08/2019 at 09:58, rigger said:

Wasn't it Freud who said something along the lines of, A sign of madness is to keep doing the same thing, and expect a different outcome.

I think most people want TM to stay, but to change his defensive selections.

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You listen to what he was saying in the press and at these supporter meetings and I thought the penny had dropped.

You also look at his team selections in the last 6 games of the season and it seemed to suggest he recognised some of the problems.

But 1st game of the season back to one defensive winger and one attacking winger. No Rothwell (which personally annoys me more than the defensive selections). Mulgrew back in, Bennett preferred to nyambe. All it was missing was an appearance from Smallwood. 

To correctly identify the problem then to row back on that is weird. I've lost a LOT of faith in his judgement. I hope he still has the desire to sort it out.

[Mercer]

  On 05/08/2019 at 09:58, rigger said:

Wasn't it Freud who said something along the lines of, A sign of madness is to keep doing the same thing, and expect a different outcome.

I think most people want TM to stay, but to change his defensive selections.

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Think it's deeper than that.

I think the evidence is, irrespective of personnel used, Mowbray and his staff have failed to show they can build a cohesive defensive unit in terms of selection, organisation or tactics.

Good organisation and coaching goes a helluva long way.

[Mercer]

  On 05/08/2019 at 10:09, BlackburnEnd75 said:

You listen to what he was saying in the press and at these supporter meetings and I thought the penny had dropped.

You also look at his team selections in the last 6 games of the season and it seemed to suggest he recognised some of the problems.

But 1st game of the season back to one defensive winger and one attacking winger. No Rothwell (which personally annoys me more than the defensive selections). Mulgrew back in, Bennett preferred to nyambe. All it was missing was an appearance from Smallwood. 

To correctly identify the problem then to row back on that is weird. I've lost a LOT of faith in his judgement. I hope he still has the desire to sort it out.

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Desire is not enough.  

I very much doubt he or his staff have the ability to sort it out.

[chaddyrovers]

  On 05/08/2019 at 10:09, BlackburnEnd75 said:

You listen to what he was saying in the press and at these supporter meetings and I thought the penny had dropped.

You also look at his team selections in the last 6 games of the season and it seemed to suggest he recognised some of the problems.

But 1st game of the season back to one defensive winger and one attacking winger. No Rothwell (which personally annoys me more than the defensive selections). Mulgrew back in, Bennett preferred to nyambe. All it was missing was an appearance from Smallwood. 

To correctly identify the problem then to row back on that is weird. I've lost a LOT of faith in his judgement. I hope he still has the desire to sort it out.

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How is Downing a defensive winger? 

[DE.]

  On 05/08/2019 at 08:51, jim mk2 said:

I can take a bad result like Saturday's on the chin because bad results can happen at any time to even the best teams but Mowbray has lost an awful lot of Brownie points by not strengthening the defence, and it is this failure more than anything that I think fans find most frustrating.

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For me the line up on Saturday was far more infuriating than the result. I can accept an opening day loss - the first day of the season always throws up some strange results. Granted with us it's never a win, but that's another story. But to see Bennett at RB, Mulgrew at CB, Bell at LB and 35 year old Downing on the wing whilst the likes of Nyambe, Brereton, Graham and especially Rothwell sit on the bench was just incredibly disappointing and killed a lot of the good feeling on here before the match had even kicked off. 

[MarkBRFC]

  On 05/08/2019 at 10:35, DE. said:

For me the line up on Saturday was far more infuriating than the result. I can accept an opening day loss - the first day of the season always throws up some strange results. Granted with us it's never a win, but that's another story. But to see Bennett at RB, Mulgrew at CB, Bell at LB and 35 year old Downing on the wing whilst the likes of Nyambe, Brereton, Graham and especially Rothwell sit on the bench was just incredibly disappointing and killed a lot of the good feeling on here before the match had even kicked off. 

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It was all so obvious though? It was clear as day that Bennet & Mulgrew were going to start, and that Rothwell wasn't. The pre season lineups told us that.

My only surprise with the team that was that Graham didn't start up front with Gallagher to one side of him,

[DE.]

  On 05/08/2019 at 10:41, MarkBRFC said:

It was all so obvious though? It was clear as day that Bennet & Mulgrew were going to start, and that Rothwell wasn't. The pre season lineups told us that.

My only surprise with the team that was that Graham didn't start up front with Gallagher to one side of him,

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A lot of people still wanted to believe that Mowbray would ultimately make the right call. I expected the line up he presented, bar Gallagher/Graham, but being prepared didn't mean I was any less angry when it was confirmed. I genuinely would rather have seen Nyambe/Lenihan/Tosin/Wheelie Bin as our defensive lineup. Couldn't have been much worse than what we got.

[BlackburnEnd75]

  On 05/08/2019 at 10:33, chaddyrovers said:

How is Downing a defensive winger? 

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Reading Mowbray's he was brought in help us see out games and even play left back when needed. TBF i'd say he was more of a cautious winger, he's not going to go beyond the play too much and he'll keep shape defensively.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 05/08/2019 at 11:35, BlackburnEnd75 said:

Reading Mowbray's he was brought in help us see out games and even play left back when needed. TBF i'd say he was more of a cautious winger, he's not going to go beyond the play too much and he'll keep shape defensively.

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He's not going to be racing back covering for whatever no mark we have playing at left back though is he ?

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

  On 05/08/2019 at 10:33, chaddyrovers said:

How is Downing a defensive winger? 

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Because -as Mowbray admitted- he can no longer zoom past a player.  If you can't do that, you can't really be an attacking winger.

[BlackburnEnd75]

  On 05/08/2019 at 11:43, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He's not going to be racing back covering for whatever no mark we have playing at left back though is he ?

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He won't need to be racing back as he'll be sat in front of him anyway

[Husky]

Considering that one of Mowbray's things is to continually play players 'out of position' one of the worst things he's done is not play Bell as a left-winger (as that's pretty much the only place he's looked any good).

[Neal]

  On 05/08/2019 at 10:35, DE. said:

For me the line up on Saturday was far more infuriating than the result. I can accept an opening day loss - the first day of the season always throws up some strange results. Granted with us it's never a win, but that's another story. But to see Bennett at RB, Mulgrew at CB, Bell at LB and 35 year old Downing on the wing whilst the likes of Nyambe, Brereton, Graham and especially Rothwell sit on the bench was just incredibly disappointing and killed a lot of the good feeling on here before the match had even kicked off. 

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The Rothwell thing just has me in knots... Football is largely a stats focused business these days, so he swapped out a lad who scored 2 goals and numerous assists in a limited amount of games (Rothwell) for a 35 year old bloke who got 2 goals and 1 assist in 38 games. Not only that, what message does that send out to Rothwell? Everyone goes on about his man management but based on his treatment of him and Nyambe it looks like his man management skills aren't as great as people think... If you look at his treatment of Raya you could argue it's pretty poor actually. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 05/08/2019 at 12:09, BlackburnEnd75 said:

He won't need to be racing back as he'll be sat in front of him anyway

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Imagine saying to Bryan Douglas I want you to be tracking back and giving John Bray a hand, he's a bit slow on the turn these days !

[benhben]

Trouble with Mowbray is his results will likely never be bad enough to force Venkys and his mate Waggot into action to replace him. We will have many years just about surviving at this level whilst hes in charge, yet I cant see him ever taking us forward. After the good results playing attacking football at the end of last season, to go back to the same dour stuff on Saturday sums him up. Too old fashioned, stubborn, afraid to upset his mates and unable to take the club up a level. 

We need a chairman with some forward vision, which its unlikely Waggot will ever be. 

Hopefully our Rothwells, Nyambes, Chapmans will take their chance when finally given one leaving him with no choice but to change. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by benhben

[Hasta]

  On 05/08/2019 at 09:58, rigger said:

Wasn't it Freud who said something along the lines of, A sign of madness is to keep doing the same thing, and expect a different outcome.

I think most people want TM to stay, but to change his defensive selections.

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Fairly brief summary of my thoughts there. I thought after last season TM would learn and thought no way would we be playing the same back 4.  I was wrong.

Tosin will have had over a week with the squad so must surely start at Fulham.

I'd then be somewhat happier that, although it has taken too long to get alternatives in, at least he's got someone in to replace either of the centre halves. However if he doesn't start the new lad on Saturday then I'll have completely lost faith in his judgement to correct our glaring problems.

[Neal]

Can someone pin this up in his office? Might help his next team selection. 

[Don Said]

Mowbray after leaving Celtic:

Celtic finished Wednesday's defeat with six strikers on the field. Their most creative player, Aiden McGeady, appeared to be deployed at left-back.

Digging at Rangers “Maybe it is a league for playing defensive football and negative football and yet have the quality up front to counterattack, particularly away from home.” Given that Rangers have scored more, conceded fewer and have a goal difference better than twice as good as Celtic’s, that utterance indicated that Mowbray was not only about to part from his employers, but had already detached himself from reality.

 

Mowbray after leaving Coventry:

"I see some shoots of hope. The players work extremely hard, but it's a man's game, they're babies in a man's league.

"I probably let them down by not getting in the big 6ft 4in centre-half we were after, who could have been a man and help us keep clean sheets.

"We knew what the budget was but we didn't get our targets. You can't build a club off loans. They have to invest in footballers they can keep and build on.

"It's important that this group of players get support. I have not seen a team better than us this season but, if you can't put them in and you can't keep them out, you're going to struggle.

 

I haven’t looked at any of the comments after leaving other clubs, in which (to his credit) he had success/mixed success (Hibs, WBA, Boro) but I’m sure there will be similar themes, particularly at WBA where defensive frailties became his undoing, albeit in the Premier League. Just focusing on Celtic and Coventry as it feels as if we are suffering from similar problems.

I really like Mowbray and really want him to learn from the past and the clear glaring issues in front of him. Unfortunately, if history is anything to go by, the few negative Mowbray traits will again overpower the many positive traits, stopping him from achieving things that would be very possible with a few seemingly simple tweaks to his approach and mind-set.

 

 

[DE.]

"Celtic finished Wednesday's defeat with six strikers on the field"... why does that sentence not surprise me in the slightest?

[Don Said]

  On 05/08/2019 at 13:32, DE. said:

"Celtic finished Wednesday's defeat with six strikers on the field"... why does that sentence not surprise me in the slightest?

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That comment stood out along with the winger at full back one. Tactically, it's an issue of his that I can't comprehend.

He'd learn a great lesson looking back at Sparky's Rovers. Pick a formation, fill 11 slots with specialists in those positions, jobs a good one. Good lesson in how to properly use 'soldiers and artists' too.

[RoverAbroad]

Albert Einstein said: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

If Tony Mowbray says on Saturday, "Elliot, you're right back today and Charlie, make sure you keep it tight it at the back. Joe, get ready to come for the last 20 minutes" then we know that we're in trouble this season and that he needs to brush up on his Einstein quotes! 

Edited August 5, 2019 by RoverAbroad

[RoverAbroad]

How many of the signings we've been making are actually Mowbray's choices? His words don't match his actions. Under the Venky's, signings have rarely made sense. Are managers told to play certain players regardless? Our lineups under Venky's have often made little sense.

As much as we're questioning Mowbray, this has been a decade of madness. That's why the thought of "Mowbray Out" is so terrifying. Before him, they appointed Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer and Coyle as their five permanent managers before Mowbray. What a bloody list, eh? Heaven knows which crappy manager they would replace him with.

 

[Waggy76]

  On 05/08/2019 at 20:02, RoverAbroad said:

Albert Einstein said: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

If Tony Mowbray says on Saturday, "Elliot, you're right back today and Charlie, make sure you keep it tight it at the back. Joe, get ready to come for the last 20 minutes" then we know that we're in trouble this season and that he needs to brush up on his Einstein quotes! 

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I think we are in big trouble this Saturday !

End of !

[DE.]

  On 05/08/2019 at 20:31, RoverAbroad said:

How many of the signings we've been making are actually Mowbray's choices? His words don't match his actions. Under the Venky's, signings have rarely made sense. Are managers told to play certain players regardless? Our lineups under Venky's have often made little sense.

As much as we're questioning Mowbray, this has been a decade of madness. That's why the thought of "Mowbray Out" is so terrifying. Before him, they appointed Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer and Coyle as their five permanent managers before Mowbray. What a bloody list, eh? Heaven knows which crappy manager they would replace him with.

 

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Wee Stevie is still available. I wouldn't put bringing him back past them.

"You know, Madame, we were 3rd when Steve resigned..."

Not even going to go further with that. The very thought makes me shudder.