Fulham Away

[RV Blue]

Just now, Roboftherovers82 said:

i think our defence will be fine once cunningham/Nyambe come into the team i am more worried about how we are not testing the other teams at the other end 

I really don’t think our defensive frailties are solely down to the personnel.

[RovingRover]

Just now, Roboftherovers82 said:

Who is available on a free for CB we definitely need one more as cover 

Ashley Williams

Younès Kaboul

Ondrej Mazuch

Joel Lynch

Danzell Gravenberch

Jonas Olsson

Will Packwood

Jonathan Spector

Gareth McAuley

Greg Halford

Delphin Tshiembe

Matthew Kilgallon

Anton Ferdinand

[Paul Mellelieu]

Just now, Blue blood said:

How many games would you give out of interest. It's something like 17 points from 19 games, or the other way round. That's a long period of bad form. How much longer do you reckon is fair? 

I'm not sure - but ten games is usually a good guide.  Over last season, as a whole - not just the poor run, we did okay, and we are two games in.  The MB is akin to a Simpsons' crowd scene.

[tonyoz]

Just now, DE. said:

Yeah, but would you have been happy with Derrick Williams as first choice CB for the next campaign at the end of last season? Our expectations are getting lower and lower. At the end of last season and even coming towards the end of this window we were being seen as dark horses for playoffs and people were backing that. Now it feels like people will soon be saying 21st is a good season and a job well done Mr Mowbray. It's worrying.

Williams is not the main problem IMO. Personally, I would never play Bell anywhere ever again. Bennett earned a reprieve today. We have a lot of options in midfield but we never seem to find a potent combination. Many have spoken enthusiastically about Rothwell but I'm not convinced. We are not threatening the opposition goal and that is the main problem  right now I think.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Just now, RovingRover said:

4 goals conceded in 2 games = Goalkeeper/defence isn't the problem

Had the minority of possession and failed to create clear-cut chances = Midfield isn't a problem

0 shots on target, whilst four forwards were on the pitch = Everything's fine!

Once again, we are TWO games in.

[RoverInverness]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

So... Just in the pub after the game.

Main thoughts -

The good- defence does look hugely better. Tosin looks very good, Williams had a very solid assured game. Bell who is about to lose his first team spot to Cunningham I thought had a good game. Also Gallagher missed a couple of decent headed chances, but won virtually everything in the air, and ran the channels well. I know he didn't produce anything truly impactful but his performance suggests he will provide opportunities over time as the centrebacks just couldn't cope with him at all. We need to figure out how to use him.

The bad -

Bennett played pretty well for most of the game, including one great triple block, but basically got done for the second goal. He just hasnt got the consistency of concentration and positional sense for full back. We absolutely must drop him.

Johnson had an absolute shocker. A yard off the page and very poor passing.  Thought we got a good one but on that showing quite worried.

Dack, Rothwell and Armstrong all played okay without producing anything incisive. Of all three Armstrong got the most quality in.

The ugly 

Around 70 mins we had all 4 (5 if you include Dack) of our strikers on the pitch in a bizarre 424 setup which just seemed desperate and we lost all shape.  Brereton on the left wing was utterly nonsensical. Armstrong lost all capability on the right as there was no structure behind him.

Someone mentioned a few days ago that he thought Mowbray had a points target that he needs to meet or he gets sacked. His subs point towards that being true.

Overall - think we do look slightly better than last year to be honest.

I thought exactly the same after the substitutions - actions of desperation and panic - seemingly  not the actions of a man who has all the time in the world to slowly build his team and find the best combinations.

Added to rumours - from an established and reliable poster - of dressing room bust ups earlier in the week.

It looks like Tony is feeling the pressure and pressure at this club doesn’t come from the terraces and social media. Ultimately it comes from the people who just had to inject another 9million to keep afloat a club that is sitting bottom of the table. Not that their actions always are readable of course, but perhaps Tony’s actions are.

 

[joey_big_nose]

Just now, DE. said:

“That’s football,” Mowbray said of allowing Mulgrew to leave and Lenihan picking up an injury.

“It’s early season, I don’t think central defence was a problem.

“I thought they applied themselves well.

“They all need to develop relationships and when Lenihan gets himself fit and comes back then he will have to compete to get in the team.”

 

Bloody hell, sounds like Del is now first choice CB even when Lenihan returns from injury!

Don't think that's really a problem. Del looks like a pretty good CB to me.

[LWX]

Just now, Roboftherovers82 said:

Who is available on a free for CB we definitely need one more as cover 

Tony Gale or Kevin Moran out of retirement?

[Blue blood]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

I'm not sure - but ten games is usually a good guide.  Over last season, as a whole - not just the poor run, we did okay, and we are two games in.  The MB is akin to a Simpsons' crowd scene.

Thing is 19 games is not a bad run. Even knocking off this season, and just thinking of last season, 17 games is not insignificant, that's a third of the season, which cannot be ignored. 

Added to which we've begun this season in line with how we finished the previous and I'd be very worried. Factor in a chaotic transfer window and then starting poorly in 2 games - in conjunction with everything beforehand - and it looks very poor. It reminds me of the end of Hodgeson's first season/beginning of his last - there's often continuity. 

I'm not sure we can just give a clean slate each new season either. If it were the other way round, doing badly, but having 3 seasons of solid success behind him, we wouldn't be ignoring the previous. I'm not sure just because the latter previous was bad means that we should just discount it. 

That said, if you didn't get rid in the summer, you do have to give him a bit longer. They should have bit the bullet at the end of last season. As they didn't they have to give him a bit more time, though for me the emphasis has to be on bit. Another 4-5 games floundering, then alongside last season's terrible ending, we really need to get rid imo. 

[DE.]

Just now, tonyoz said:

Williams is not the main problem IMO. Personally, I would never play Bell anywhere ever again. Bennett earned a reprieve today. We have a lot of options in midfield but we never seem to find a potent combination. Many have spoken enthusiastically about Rothwell but I'm not convinced. We are not threatening the opposition goal and that is the main problem  right now I think.

I agree Williams is not the main problem at all, the manager is. Williams is a solid enough backup CB and I don't have a problem with him in that role at all. I will have a problem if when Lenihan is fit he is on the bench and Williams is ahead of him though. If Mowbray doesn't consider Lenihan necessarily any better than Williams in that role then it means we should have been after at least two CB's in the summer, not just one.

I'm not sure our attacking play is the problem tbh. We scored plenty of goals last season and we've had plenty of chances on goal in the first couple of matches, we've just had very few on target, which again points to poor personnel choice by the manager. Graham and Dack had a great link up last season and we need Graham back starting asap IMO. 

[Songman]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

Once again, we are TWO games in.

We are, but is it not 19 points from 57 available or something on those lines.

[DE.]

Just now, Songman said:

We are, but is it not 19 points from 57 available or something on those lines.

17 points from 57 (19 games). 

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

I'm not sure - but ten games is usually a good guide.  Over last season, as a whole - not just the poor run, we did okay, and we are two games in.  The MB is akin to a Simpsons' crowd scene.

He's a hero all right, a hero sandwich full of bologna!

 

[RV Blue]

Just now, OnePhilT said:

You honestly think that Lenihan and Mulgrew would have performed as well as Lenihan and Adarabioyo? You clearly didn't watch the game, then.

Eh? Have you replied to the wrong post?

[Songman]

Just now, DE. said:

17 points from 57 (19 games). 

Cheers, 2 points worse than I thought.

[danger19_80]

Just now, Songman said:

We are, but is it not 19 points from 57 available or something on those lines.

Different teams/tactics though. I agree it's worrying but he needs at least 10 games for things to settle before pushing the panic button imo.

Edited August 10, 2019 by danger19_80

[tonyoz]

Just now, DE. said:

I agree Williams is not the main problem at all, the manager is. Williams is a solid enough backup CB and I don't have a problem with him in that role at all. I will have a problem if when Lenihan is fit he is on the bench and Williams is ahead of him though. If Mowbray doesn't consider Lenihan necessarily any better than Williams in that role then it means we should have been after at least two CB's in the summer, not just one.

I'm not sure our attacking play is the problem tbh. We scored plenty of goals last season and we've had plenty of chances on goal in the first couple of matches, we've just had very few on target, which again points to poor personnel choice by the manager. Graham and Dack had a great link up last season and we need Graham back starting asap IMO. 

I'm a Lenihan fan so I won't argue there. I disagree with your second paragraph though...……...we really haven't looked like scoring so far this season (own goals excepted). Gallagher is not the answer IMO. As someone else intimated earlier...……...it's a wee bit embarrassing having 12 million on the bench and sending Danny on to do the business!

[Paul Mellelieu]

Just now, Songman said:

We are, but is it not 19 points from 57 available or something on those lines.

The poor run, immediately after TM won manager of the month, coincided with Lenihan's injury.  Taken as a whole the season was a success.  Can TM take us to challenge for promotion?  I don't know, but I think he deserves a chance, and less of the name-calling that is a permanent feature here.  He isn't a Keane or Coyle, or Kidd for that matter.  

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, danger19_80 said:

Different teams/tactics though. I agree it's worrying but he needs at least 10 games for things to settle before pushing the panic button imo.

The 10 game rule is gaining traction.

To save going through 10 games, 3 months, until Christmas, after the January Window rinse and repeat ritual lets just accept that Mowbray is here until HE doesn't want to be. 

He's in a Godfather position.

Be scared.

Edited August 10, 2019 by AllRoverAsia

[DE.]

Just now, tonyoz said:

I'm a Lenihan fan so I won't argue there. I disagree with your second paragraph though...……...we really haven't looked like scoring so far this season (own goals excepted). Gallagher is not the answer IMO. As someone else intimated earlier...……...it's a wee bit embarrassing having 12 million on the bench and sending Danny on to do the business!

On the contrary, it sounds like we mostly agree that it's a personnel choice. Fair to say that if Graham was on the pitch instead of Gallagher a few of the crosses we put in may have found their way into the net? Or perhaps he manages to lay off a ball to Dack for a clear strike on goal. 

It's funny because even though there has been criticism of TM not putting players into the team from the get go, I actually think we would have been better off with Graham up front for these first few matches and integrating Gallagher after we had a few points on the board and a bit of confidence flowing. Now granted even with Graham on the pitch we may have lost to both Charlton and Fulham, but I think we'd have had a better shots on target ratio than 8%. 

[tonyoz]

Just now, DE. said:

On the contrary, it sounds like we mostly agree that it's a personnel choice. Fair to say that if Graham was on the pitch instead of Gallagher a few of the crosses we put in may have found their way into the net? Or perhaps he manages to lay off a ball to Dack for a clear strike on goal. 

It's funny because even though there has been criticism of TM not putting players into the team from the get go, I actually think we would have been better off with Graham up front for these first few matches and integrating Gallagher after we had a few points on the board and a bit of confidence flowing. Now granted even with Graham on the pitch we may have lost to both Charlton and Fulham, but I think we'd have had a better shots on target ratio than 8%. 

I'm also a Graham fan by the way...……………….heh heh!

[Songman]

Just now, danger19_80 said:

Different teams/tactics though. I agree it's worrying but he needs at least 10 games for things to settle before pushing the panic button imo.

Few different players yes, not seen anything in the 2 games to suggest different tactics as yet.

[Songman]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

The poor run, immediately after TM won manager of the month, coincided with Lenihan's injury.  Taken as a whole the season was a success.  Can TM take us to challenge for promotion?  I don't know, but I think he deserves a chance, and less of the name-calling that is a permanent feature here.  He isn't a Keane or Coyle, or Kidd for that matter.  

I've never really been a fan, certainly wouldn't call him names though. Big few weeks ahead for him.

[DE.]

Just now, tonyoz said:

I'm also a Graham fan by the way...……………….heh heh!

He's got a strike rate of just over 1/3 for us in the league so we all should be really!

[danger19_80]

Just now, Songman said:

Few different players yes, not seen anything in the 2 games to suggest different tactics as yet.

Walton, Tosin, Johnson, Gallagher...the whole spine of the team is different