Fulham Away

[Mattyblue]

Armstrong’s not a winger, he’s a front 2 striker. A poor man’s Michael Owen.

He’s unfortunate to come through In an era where front 2s and in particular the big/little man strikerforce has largely disappeared out of the game.

[Vinjay]

6 hours ago, Harry The Bass said:

This is a club ran by a millionaire Huddersfield fan (Dean Hoyle).

Imagine how long it would take, and who we might get too.

Well Huddersfield have had a takeover 3 months ago actually and they didn't have to look far.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/huddersfield-town-to-be-sold-as-dean-hoyle-announces-departure-as-chairman-1-9749285

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Well Huddersfield have had a takeover 3 months ago actually and they didn't have to look far.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/huddersfield-town-to-be-sold-as-dean-hoyle-announces-departure-as-chairman-1-9749285

The difference being the interest of the seller in selling to a suitable buyer, and not just handing off the process to an agent.

[JBiz]

Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Well Huddersfield have had a takeover 3 months ago actually and they didn't have to look far.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/football/huddersfield-town-to-be-sold-as-dean-hoyle-announces-departure-as-chairman-1-9749285

I am aware of that, I was referencing that my only ever recollection of a manager leaving so quickly was Hudds. The rationale (funnily enough) was the poor run the previous season.

My point with our context was we have no “Dean Hoyle”. We have the disconnected, unpredictable at best Rao family.

 

[Vinjay]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

I am aware of that, I was referencing that my only ever recollection of a manager leaving so quickly was Hudds. The rationale (funnily enough) was the poor run the previous season.

My point with our context was we have no “Dean Hoyle”. We have the disconnected, unpredictable at best Rao family.

 

Who are here because they were sold by a disinterested family influenced trust who didn't even ask the most basic questions. Like for instance what relegation was and for that matter Williams/Finn didn't either. Despite my heavily pro takeover stance even I said there were no guarantees. Really how many clubs do have a predictable future if they choose to sell? Of course few will have a great future anyway since owners aren't allowed to have ambition without UEFA interference these days.

[JBiz]

Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Who are here because they were sold by a disinterested family influenced trust who didn't even ask the most basic questions. Like for instance what relegation was and for that matter Williams/Finn didn't either. Despite my heavily pro takeover stance even I said there were no guarantees. Really how many clubs do have a predictable future if they choose to sell? Of course few will have a great future anyway since owners aren't allowed to have ambition without UEFA interference these days.

Vinny m8 - I’m the guy who baulks at people using more than the last 2.5 years, or TMs tenure when looking at our immediate direction.

Therefore, even though I agree that the trust negligently sold us via agents, I’m not sure what it has to do with Fulham away, Mowbray out! Or anything bar our whole ownership scenario. 

 

[den]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He's a finisher pure and simple Den, he's not an all around football player. Put him up front alongside somebody like Newall 20 odd years ago and he'd score goals. Trouble is it's 2019 now and we don't play that way anymore. It's a bit like playing Gary Lineker or Michael Owen out wide on the right or left although I daresay they'd make a better job of it.

Not even sure he’s a finisher of any note Tyrone. 

[Vinjay]

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Vinny m8 - I’m the guy who baulks at people using more than the last 2.5 years, or TMs tenure when looking at our immediate direction.

Therefore, even though I agree that the trust negligently sold us via agents, I’m not sure what it has to do with Fulham away, Mowbray out! Or anything bar our whole ownership scenario. 

 

Well I was correcting what appeared to be no knowledge of Huddersfield's (majority) ownership change. Not to have a rant at the Walkers though admittedly I don't need much excuse.

Not much to say about the Fulham game. It just really further cements my view that the club won't move any further forward than it already has under Mowbray. Which is pretty much what I've thought since he took over so how much more can you say about that? Especially when more and more people have now realised his limitations. Towards the end of last season (until the form picked up a bit in last few games) I thought this season might start extremely badly but then I revised my view to a slightly more uplifting outlook. I haven't entirely shifted from that (losing 2 games isn't a disastrous start but propping up the table or 23rd in October would be) but the first win needs to come sooner rather than later...and I'm not talking about the upcoming midweek game.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Vinjay17

[Exiled in Toronto]

56 minutes ago, JHRover said:

No I didn't see him play yesterday. I'm not judging Raya or Walton on one game, just pointing out that Mowbray pointed to Raya's 'inexperience' as an issue and reason he was replaced yet he's now keeping clean sheets for a rival whilst we continue to concede. Think people will realise this season that our defensive woes were as much to do with our coaching than players.

Sheet. He conceded at home last week.

Which means your above argument is based on precisely one game.

[Vinjay]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

Sheet. He conceded at home last week.

Which means your above argument is based on precisely one game.

Indeed. Apparently Bolton's keeper had an excellent game yesterday in extremely difficult circumstances. I guess some people on here would sign on that evidence? 

[JHRover]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

Sheet. He conceded at home last week.

Which means your above argument is based on precisely one game.

He's conceded 1 in 2 games. We've conceded 4 in 2. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

He's conceded 1 in 2 games. We've conceded 4 in 2. 

Ahhh, now you have doubled the size of your database, your proof is compelling...

[JHRover]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

Ahhh, now you have doubled the size of your database, your proof is compelling...

I can only go off what has happened since we decided to sell him. The manager suggested that he was the reason or one of the reasons we conceded so many goals last season. So far that has been wrong.

[m1st]

7 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Why do you think his time is up ? Personally don't think he is the perfect manager - but excluding his lack of ruthlessness with certain players (and blind spot over centre half) - I can see at times what he is trying to do.

I do wonder how much pressure he is under from DJ - not heard some of his interviews recently (I don't rely on out of context sound bites) - but some have mentioned a certain tetchiness. Possibly the owners are lining up DJ if we don't start well - and Mowbray is aware of this ? What is certain - given our fan base and debts - he can't really complain about support from the owners.

But isn't it also an over-ruthlessness - viz. Raya & Nyambe - with certain other players, DMTP?

Those two in particular must feel that they've been carrying the can for some of the Manager's favourites. Raya's voted with his feet; Nyambe must wonder what he has to do to be selected ahead of Bennett.

[tomphil]

Put Raya behind a more solid defence and he'll do better, put Walton behind a weaker one than he had before and he won't.

Not rocket science..........unless you're Mowbray.

[DE.]

Just now, tomphil said:

Put Raya behind a more solid defence and he'll do better, put Walton behind a weaker one than he had before and he won't.

Not rocket science..........unless you're Mowbray.

I think our issues go far beyond just pointing at players and saying they aren't performing, aren't good enough, etc. I don't think we set up in a way that gets the best out of the vast majority of the players we have at our disposal. Our main right back is a right midfielder/centre midfielder. Our main left back is at best more of a wing back. Our playing style makes it difficult for either of our CM's to contribute to the attack, as if they do then the defence is totally exposed on the counter. Our wingers are almost always converted strikers and they play like it. Dack often has to drop back to get the ball, limiting his effectiveness, and our striker has to be a Danny Graham type because otherwise the long balls we play are worthless. You could argue none of our other strikers possess the same abilities as Graham which means they look very limited when in that role. 

We haven't necessarily recruited badly (defence aside) but we don't play to the strengths of the personnel we have, and it's a common theme throughout Mowbray's managerial career. For some reason his transfers don't match the way he sets his team out, so his vision is either so advanced that he needs incredible players to achieve it, or it's just nonsense and doomed to failure. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by DE.

[tomphil]

Just now, DE. said:

I think our issues go far beyond just pointing at players and saying they aren't performing, aren't good enough, etc. I don't think we set up in a way that gets the best out of the vast majority of the players we have at our disposal. Our main right back is a right midfielder/centre midfielder. Our main left back is at best more of a wing back. Our playing style makes it difficult for either of our CM's to contribute to the attack, as if they do then the defence is totally exposed on the counter. Our wingers are almost always converted strikers and they play like it. Dack often has to drop back to get the ball, limiting his effectiveness, and our striker has to be a Danny Graham type because otherwise the long balls we play are worthless. You could argue none of our other strikers possess the same abilities as Graham which means they look very limited when in that role. 

We haven't necessarily recruited badly (defence aside) but we don't play to the strengths of the personnel we have, and it's a common theme throughout Mowbray's managerial career. For some reason his transfers don't match the way he sets his team out, so his vision is either so advanced that he needs incredible players to achieve it, or it's just nonsense and doomed to failure. 

That's why i said he's like a lower level Hodgson in the way he recruits and selects and sets up but the personnel don't match the set up and vice versa as you say. It's just overcooking things all the time to the point it helps the opposition rather than hinders them.  The wily nily recruitment is such i think just like Woy if he could spend 20 mill on players we still wouldn't get promoted it would be a real mess although as you know i'll never be 100% convinced in the transfer policy at Ewood and who and why runs it.

Take Gallagher as the most recent example he's a big mobile lad who'll put a shift in and he isn't good with his nut be he'll get it on things so the best way to play him is down the middle. He isn't DG but Graham wasn't what he is now in style when he 20 odd but Gallagher could be a bit like Beattie or Newell and defend from the front, cause the other team hassle and let the guys behind him pick up scraps.  He's just an upgrade on Samuel at the min with the way Mowbray uses him.  He can play wide striker but that really isn't getting the best out of him the way we do it.   Similar things can be said of Armstrong and BB although Arma can get away with it better being quick but still the side is so unbalanced up front it causes problems for the rest when it shouldn't given the quality of attack we have to call on.

[DE.]

Just now, tomphil said:

That's why i said he's like a lower level Hodgson in the way he recruits and selects and sets up but the personnel don't match the set up and vice versa as you say. It's just overcooking things all the time to the point it helps the opposition rather than hinders them.  The wily nily recruitment is such i think just like Woy if he could spend 20 mill on players we still wouldn't get promoted it would be a real mess although as you know i'll never be 100% convinced in the transfer policy at Ewood and who and why runs it.

Take Gallagher as the most recent example he's a big mobile lad who'll put a shift in and he isn't good with his nut be he'll get it on things so the best way to play him is down the middle. He isn't DG but Graham wasn't what he is now in style when he 20 odd but Gallagher could be a bit like Beattie or Newell and defend from the front, cause the other team hassle and let the guys behind him pick up scraps.  He's just an upgrade on Samuel at the min with the way Mowbray uses him.  He can play wide striker but that really isn't getting the best out of him the way we do it.   Similar things can be said of Armstrong and BB although Arma can get away with it better being quick but still the side is so unbalanced up front it causes problems for the rest when it shouldn't given the quality of attack we have to call on.

Our current system makes it virtually impossible to get the best out of Armstrong, Rothwell, Brereton or Gallagher individually, let alone in the same team. That's nearly £15m of talent who have been signed for a system that doesn't really suit them, and there is no evidence we are planning to change style any time soon. Worryingly Tony seems to be trying to retrain Brereton as a left winger (!), whilst Armstrong is wasted on the flanks and Rothwell is only partially effective out wide. Jury's still out on whether Gallagher can be the Graham replacement we need, but we better hope so as I don't see Venky's sanctioning another big splash on a striker. 

[tomphil]

Just now, DE. said:

Our current system makes it virtually impossible to get the best out of Armstrong, Rothwell, Brereton or Gallagher individually, let alone in the same team. That's nearly £15m of talent who have been signed for a system that doesn't really suit them, and there is no evidence we are planning to change style any time soon. Worryingly Tony seems to be trying to retrain Brereton as a left winger (!), whilst Armstrong is wasted on the flanks and Rothwell is only partially effective out wide. Jury's still out on whether Gallagher can be the Graham replacement we need, but we better hope so as I don't see Venky's sanctioning another big splash on a striker. 

After what they've allowed to be spent over the last 12 months i doubt they'll let anything significant be spent again for a long time now the defensive recruitment points to that.  Most of it will be covered by selling Dack if he pulls his finger out again this season then the next sales after that will be recouping running cost money i think.

[DeeCee]

Does he read this mb? In reality.

[bazza]

Just now, DeeCee said:

Does he read this mb? In reality.

I bloody hope so!

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

1 hour ago, DeeCee said:

Does he read this mb? In reality.

Does he fuck 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

I think our issues go far beyond just pointing at players and saying they aren't performing, aren't good enough, etc. I don't think we set up in a way that gets the best out of the vast majority of the players we have at our disposal. Our main right back is a right midfielder/centre midfielder. Our main left back is at best more of a wing back. Our playing style makes it difficult for either of our CM's to contribute to the attack, as if they do then the defence is totally exposed on the counter. Our wingers are almost always converted strikers and they play like it. Dack often has to drop back to get the ball, limiting his effectiveness, and our striker has to be a Danny Graham type because otherwise the long balls we play are worthless. You could argue none of our other strikers possess the same abilities as Graham which means they look very limited when in that role. 

We haven't necessarily recruited badly (defence aside) but we don't play to the strengths of the personnel we have, and it's a common theme throughout Mowbray's managerial career. For some reason his transfers don't match the way he sets his team out, so his vision is either so advanced that he needs incredible players to achieve it, or it's just nonsense and doomed to failure. 

I did notice how far Dack dropped back by the end of the game yesterday I have to say. 

 

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I did notice how far Dack dropped back by the end of the game yesterday I have to say. 

It's a fairly common occurance, particularly as the game reaches around the 65 minute mark. I think it's because at that point our CM's are usually sitting quite far back and not getting forward often to support the attack. With nobody behind him Dack has no choice but to drop back to try and get involved, as otherwise he's just waiting for flick ons from the striker as the ball flies over his head. In a way it's good that he's coming back to try and get the ball, as it shows he wants to be involved, but it limits his effectiveness as there is then a big gap between himself and the striker - not to mention the two wide midfielders who tend to be fairly high up the pitch as well. He then has ground to cover to get back into his normal position. 

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, DE. said:

It's a fairly common occurance, particularly as the game reaches around the 65 minute mark. I think it's because at that point our CM's are usually sitting quite far back and not getting forward often to support the attack. With nobody behind him Dack has no choice but to drop back to try and get involved, as otherwise he's just waiting for flick ons from the striker as the ball flies over his head. In a way it's good that he's coming back to try and get the ball, as it shows he wants to be involved, but it limits his effectiveness as there is then a big gap between himself and the striker - not to mention the two wide midfielders who tend to be fairly high up the pitch as well. He then has ground to cover to get back into his normal position. 

I think it's the opposite.  He's usually knackered and hasn't got the burst or energy to get beyond  defenders.  He should be around Gallagher more to win the second ball and try more to shoot.  

I thought he would have worked on his conditioning over the summer, looks like he's been auditioning for Fame the musical . Bradley Prydz 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Sparks Rover