Oldham

[Mattyblue]

I’ve no problem with people being ‘ITK’, indeed it’s good to get an insight into the inner workings of clubs. We’ve had a few on here, but none have been as patronising as our present resident.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Mattyblue

[Hasta]

A rather dull and dreary 65 minutes followed by a much more exciting last 25, mainly thanks to our "get everyone on the pitch wherever" approach at the end.

Nyambe and Cunningham were both surprisingly pretty bad. We know Nyambe is better than that, but his touch, decision making, and positioning was all wrong. Cunningham got skinned with a stopover early on and looked a bit shaky and frustrated for the rest of the evening.

Smallwood was marginally better than Evans, but you know that they are sterile, slow the game down and don't look to go forward. Buckley didn't do much and looked like he was trying too hard. Downing does look a better footballer than Conway, but he has no zip or spark about him and isn't going to change the game single handedly. At least he kept his shot down for the goal at the end, whereas our usual midfielders put 25 yarders into the stand.

The build up was so slow and sterile. It's like we thought if we kept hold of the ball and passed it around in the middle of the pitch eventually some gaping hole would open up for us the play the ball into and get a free shot on goal. No-one was trying to make anything happen. no-one was driving the team forward.

Once Dack came on, Graham looked twice the player. Suddenly he had a runner in and around him and could lay ball (some high and diagonal into him!!) off into Dacks path. Dack also looked a couple of levels above the opposition. We've not seen him be as influential as that for a while. There's a bit of a worry that he's a flat track bully against poorer  opponent in regards to his ability to come deep, turn and link up play. He will always find space and score goals like last season, but where he really stands out seemed to be in the league one campaign and against lower league opposition. Rothwell changed the pace of the game. He picks the ball up just inside the opposition half and his first thought is how far forward can I take this ball to put us on the attack. He may lose it now and again but thats what happens when you try and make something happen. He's almost first name on the team sheet for me the weekend.

Chapman only really ran at his full back twice. Having got the left back booked, he was then switched to the right, probably because more of the play was coming down the right.  If he meant the low ball into Dark at the near post that was a great ball.

Finally, Brereton. I really want the lad to do well, but he doesn't look like its going to happen. When he gets the ball, or is running with the ball, he looks 'awkward'. Therefore he either needs to be a big physical presence or have great awareness in the penalty box and he doesn't. The problem is, he should be behind Graham, Armstrong, Gallagher in the pecking order, and I've still yet to see he is any better than Samual or the departed Nuttall. He may start getting chances purely because TM signed him, rather than on merit, which would just be wrong.  He will score goals over a period of time but he doesn't look like he's ever going to constantly scare the opposition during games.

[47er]

26 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Yet we are.

But surely the solution is not just "drop Graham"?!!! I can't believe TM can't see farther than that. I don't suppose Graham would be at all annoyed if he got the ball on the floor for a change!

I reckon the dressing room atmosphere which TM sets such stall by is non-existent now.

[Parsonblue]

30 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Yet we are.

And a good job too as the Graham/Dack combination is the one that works. 

[47er]

Just now, Hasta said:

Finally, Brereton. I really want the lad to do well, but he doesn't look like its going to happen. When he gets the ball, or is running with the ball, he looks 'awkward'. Therefore he either needs to be a big physical presence or have great awareness in the penalty box and he doesn't. The problem is, he should be behind Graham, Armstrong, Gallagher in the pecking order, and I've still yet to see he is any better than Samual or the departed Nuttall. He may start getting chances purely because TM signed him, rather than on merit, which would just be wrong.  He will score goals over a period of time but he doesn't look like he's ever going to constantly scare the opposition during games.

He'll be included when he shouldn't be because he cost £7M!

 Embarassing for the club. One of the strangest transfers in our history but let's give him time eh?

Just like Mowbray!

[47er]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

And a good job too as the Graham/Dack combination is the one that works. 

Looks like Mowbray has decided that if it works---change it!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I agree 100%. He was non existent the whole game and only popped up four times to miss glaring chances! Was a bit unlucky with the handball.

I still can’t work out what type of striker he is...

He's the sort of striker that won't score many goals. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Bennett is taking some time off twitter after the nonsense following the Charlton match. 

Got that from the horses mouth.

Can't blame him. He needs to focus on upping his on-field game. 

[1864roverite]

The morning after, a bit of a lie in and had a few thoughts about the comments post match on here as well as reviewing what I saw or didn’t see last night.

Despite it being bloody awful at times I am glad that I went to the game, yes the result is all that mattered at the end and we get a glory tie at Bramhall Lane for our sins !

So back to the game...

Liuetwiller - not good enough for me, persists in punching the ball instead of catching and commanding the area. We should have played Fisher or Walton.

Nyambe - statuesque at time s did marginally better at centre back lung busting run at the end impressed me but left me asking why he didn’t do the same down the flanks?

Cunningham - mixed for me, settled down and was a bit rusty as you would expect, I think he will command the Lb spot.

Platt - ok at times but poor distribution will definitely benefit from a loan move.

Grayson - steady and much more composed that Platt, he will get better sticking around the first team imo.

Downing - poor at time but he has the silky touch and can beat a man on a sixpence despite his age, great crosser of the ball.

Evans - anonymous all game, poor effort from an international player.

Smallwood - worst game ever should be loaned out and never wear the shirt again.

Buckley - did well for me and better at RB than Nyambe! This lad looks like a player if he can beef himself up.

Brereton - unlucky at times, awful at times but puts himself around. He is ring rusty and needs games, I still think he will be a good player for us and will score goals despite views of some. 

Graham - short of service and got us back firing when Dack came on.

Rothwell, Dack and Chapman - all had their cameo moments but JR looked off the pace at times giving too many sloppy balls away, Chapman probably needs a good run of games because as we know he has the ability speed and skill to destroy defences.

The game was too full of slack passing, too many sideways passes and not enough impetus or drive, it was littered with mistakes and that is why we allowed Oldham far too much space, they were too comfortable due to our lack of drive. 

I question Mowbray tactics at times too many times they were players who didn’t know what to do with the ball, standing still and waiting instead of passing and moving, basic football went amiss big time.

If there has been fall out inside the club the broom needs sweeping and TM either needs to gel the players or get out and quickly because if the team remains rotten at the core we will drop faster than Burnley making it to division 4! We have the players, we have the ability, speed and skill to make an impact this year it just needs putting together. 

Finally, our supporters can be the first aid if we can get our act together on the terraces. Get behind the club at home like the last 15 minutes last night, we saw Rovers urged on by the support and they got the reward, yes it was as I reiterate Oldham in the cup but at then end of the day you can only beat what is in front of you!

COYB

[Eddie]

Brereton needs game time and confidence and he isn't nearly half as bad as some on here make out. That isn't me saying that he will ever justify the (potential) transfer fee or the decision to focus on that area of the squad, but you can't rush to judgment on a young player who has still yet to have a run of games where he gets to start. 

Just for context, for all of the Danny Graham love that there is in here (and I am not saying that it is wrong) let's take a look at his stats early in his career and his stats at Sunderland after his 5m move (now, yes, by this point he had shown that he could score goals, but it is a sign that you shouldn't judge a player based on 12 months and a handful of appearances). 

We should know that better than anyone, the last young English striker we did this with was Kevin Davies...

 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Just now, 47er said:

He'll be included when he shouldn't be because he cost £7M!

 Embarassing for the club. One of the strangest transfers in our history but let's give him time eh?

Just like Mowbray!

Don't think it is strange - TM obviously wanted Gallagher last season. When we couldn't get him - we went for Brereton. Have to seriously question the scouting on this one. Though they are both physically similar in stature - Gallagher puts in far more effort - and is more robust than Brereton.

Obviously hope both come good - but at the moment Gallagher looks by far the most likely.

[Guest]

As more and more championship teams play stupid “out from the back” Pep football, a hoofball to Graham with knockdowns for Dack would work this year to keep us midtable. Give up on this stupid trial system and stick to what works.

Look at Sheff Wed.

[Eddie]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

As more and more championship teams play stupid “out from the back” Pep football, a hoofball to Graham with knockdowns for Dack would work this year to keep us midtable. Give up on this stupid trial system and stick to what works.

Look at Sheff Wed.

What a depressing statement. 

[Mattyblue]

Just now, Eddie said:

What a depressing statement. 

Sure is, says it all about his signings up top.

[Bigdoggsteel]

52 minutes ago, Colt Seavers said:

A few musings from last night...

Nyambe seemed subdued and short of confidence all night. His body language told me he is a player shorn of self belief. He was ponderous on the ball and seemed reluctant when at right back to get down the wing. He looks a shadow of his former self and we need to be careful (or rather TM needs to be careful ) that he doesn't regress down the Adam Henley route.

Cunningham grew into the game. He is more of a Tommy Spurr than a Martin Olsson but has a bit more than Spurr going forward. I imagine he will be a fixture at left back for us.

Grayson is a lovely footballer but I don't see him as a natural centre half and Platt needs to develop, probably on loan somewhere. 

Downing has energy. He also has the class to beat his man without outright pace. I don't particularly like him on the right where he started. TM seemed to move him to the left wing before becoming centre midfield in the second half.  I think he could be most useful in what I call the Tugay/ older Hoddle role playing a little deeper. This would need an energetic Johnson or an improved Travis to make that work. ( big year for Travis coming up - hope he doesn't stagnate). 

Buckley looked a bit lost and I thought he played the right back role better late on when he was more confident of what he was being asked to do. In fact he played better than Nyambe there. I saw a few comments last night on here about him being out of position at full back but it is a role he knows well and is good at.

Brereton needs game time. He is a player that looks rusty if he misses matches. But can we afford to regularly start him to get him up to speed? I would say probably not.

Rothwell doesn't seem his old self this season (see the Nyambe comments above for why that is. Thanks TM).

Graham has to start as he is still the best option there. Chapman is a really useful match winning sub and can be big for us, which just leaves Dack. Interestingly he was more fired up off the bench than I have seen him for some time. He was extremely vocal and animated and really drove the team forward. He plays so much better like that but his zeal and desire has been absent too long.

Finally, this is speculation but the whole feel to my eyes is of some discord in the camp. I don't believe that Lenihan has a 'fluid on the back of the knee problem' one iota. I think he was part of the Mulgrew row and was dropped ( and not made captain) as a result. Ironically I think this show of strength might the best thing Mowbray has had to do in terms of focusing some minds. 

Finally, cutting away all the understandable concern amongst all of us on here; it was a cracking end to a match and I'm glad I went.

I was thinking the same. It's a bit fishy to me

Good post 

[G Somerset Rover]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I’m a lifelong fan who happens to have a bit of real insight into how things actually work Stu. That’s not ‘championing failure’ it’s real life. Suck it up.

As Iv said, many of your / our concerns are valid. The biggest one not being mentioned is exactly what happened between Mowbray and the lads transfer deadline day resulting in Mulgrew going and Lenihans ‘injury’ as well as being overlooked for the captaincy....can’t get a bean out of anyone re that!!

I mentioned the other day whether something is amiss between Mowbray and Lenihan. He talked about how he’d have a battle to get back in and overlooking him for the captaincy seemed an odd choice. Go back 6 months and he wouldn’t stop raving about him - ‘got to get promotion or we’ll lose him’ etc.

@Paul Mani - anything you can give insight to?

Edited August 14, 2019 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[Bigdoggsteel]

36 minutes ago, Hasta said:

A rather dull and dreary 65 minutes followed by a much more exciting last 25, mainly thanks to our "get everyone on the pitch wherever" approach at the end.

Nyambe and Cunningham were both surprisingly pretty bad. We know Nyambe is better than that, but his touch, decision making, and positioning was all wrong. Cunningham got skinned with a stopover early on and looked a bit shaky and frustrated for the rest of the evening.

Smallwood was marginally better than Evans, but you know that they are sterile, slow the game down and don't look to go forward. Buckley didn't do much and looked like he was trying too hard. Downing does look a better footballer than Conway, but he has no zip or spark about him and isn't going to change the game single handedly. At least he kept his shot down for the goal at the end, whereas our usual midfielders put 25 yarders into the stand.

The build up was so slow and sterile. It's like we thought if we kept hold of the ball and passed it around in the middle of the pitch eventually some gaping hole would open up for us the play the ball into and get a free shot on goal. No-one was trying to make anything happen. no-one was driving the team forward.

Once Dack came on, Graham looked twice the player. Suddenly he had a runner in and around him and could lay ball (some high and diagonal into him!!) off into Dacks path. Dack also looked a couple of levels above the opposition. We've not seen him be as influential as that for a while. There's a bit of a worry that he's a flat track bully against poorer  opponent in regards to his ability to come deep, turn and link up play. He will always find space and score goals like last season, but where he really stands out seemed to be in the league one campaign and against lower league opposition. Rothwell changed the pace of the game. He picks the ball up just inside the opposition half and his first thought is how far forward can I take this ball to put us on the attack. He may lose it now and again but thats what happens when you try and make something happen. He's almost first name on the team sheet for me the weekend.

Chapman only really ran at his full back twice. Having got the left back booked, he was then switched to the right, probably because more of the play was coming down the right.  If he meant the low ball into Dark at the near post that was a great ball.

Finally, Brereton. I really want the lad to do well, but he doesn't look like its going to happen. When he gets the ball, or is running with the ball, he looks 'awkward'. Therefore he either needs to be a big physical presence or have great awareness in the penalty box and he doesn't. The problem is, he should be behind Graham, Armstrong, Gallagher in the pecking order, and I've still yet to see he is any better than Samual or the departed Nuttall. He may start getting chances purely because TM signed him, rather than on merit, which would just be wrong.  He will score goals over a period of time but he doesn't look like he's ever going to constantly scare the opposition during games.

Although he actually did that! 

Ya, I think when it comes to actually influencing the game Dack is a flat track bully. He still scores and assists at Championship level, which is great, but he never looks like the best player on the field. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

Thought it was a poor performance and a stark reminder that amidst 12m worth of strikers, the most effective is the 34 year old written off by many.

Dack changed the game when he came on, his link up with Graham is critical when Mowbray hasnt come close to finding another reliable source of goals regardless of the money hes thrown down the drain.

Brereton on the other hand had an absolute shocker. Failing to score from 3 guilt edge chances, 2 of which he failed to even make close to proper contact with. Also when he was put through

Downing offered a glimpse of quality and a great strike, but cannot play right wing. Chapman and Rothwell offered a new sense of pace and energy even if their end product was mixed, we looked more dangerous with them on. Cunningham was steady enough, Nyambe lacking confidence which is unsurprising. Evans and Smallwood not up to it, again.

Didnt think it was a good night for our academy players either, none suggested that they are close to the first team. The 2 centre backs are nowhere near, obviously Platt couldnt get on Stanleys defence and Grayson was no better. On a night when Mowbray said that Tosin is also a doubt for Saturday, leaving us with only Williams, the grimly predictable eventually of not having enough CBs could come into play in the third league game which is embarassing for the manager.

People rave about Buckleys talent but every time I see him he looks a million miles away. So soft and flimsy and ultimately totally ineffectual and lucky to last the game.

[Hasta]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Although he actually did that! 

Did he really? Did Dack and Rothwell not change the game completely meaning that suddenly Downing started getting big pockets of space in midfield?  Had Dack not been fouled right on the edge of the box with numerous defenders around him, Downing wouldn't have had Cairney-like space to shoot.

Until we actually had an attacking threat on the pitch, all Downing was doing was picking the ball up and going square or just firing it into the box.

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Hasta

[arealbrfcfan]

Did anyone see the back heel Chapman did to set up one of the goals. Looks like he will work well with Dack, Graham and Rothwell

[roversfan99]

Just now, starscascade said:

Did anyone see the back heel Chapman did to set up one of the goals. Looks like he will work well with Dack, Graham and Rothwell

That didnt lead to a goal, but he played an absolutely superb reverse pass near the end from the left hand side that we should have scored from.

[MarkBRFC]

Just now, starscascade said:

Did anyone see the back heel Chapman did to set up one of the goals. Looks like he will work well with Dack, Graham and Rothwell

Not a chance them four will start in a league game together.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Hasta said:

Did he really? Did Dack and Rothwell not change the game completely meaning that suddenly Downing started getting big pockets of space in midfield?  Had Dack not been fouled right on the edge of the box with numerous defenders around him, Downing wouldn't have had Cairney-like space to shoot.

Until we actually had an attacking threat on the pitch, all Downing was doing was picking the ball up and going square or just firing it into the box.

 

Ya, he did. His goal completely changed the game. We were going out until he stepped up with the quality to score it. We don't have many others who would have been able to do that. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What a depressing statement. 

You call it depressing, I call it realistic, and currently the only system we have which actually gets us two goals a game. This new system might be nice in theory, but it ain't feckin working, and if we keep trying to make it work, we could be in for a dog fight when it doesn't. I'd rather finish 15th playing with Graham up front, than lower playing "nice" football with BB and SG up top.

[47er]

28 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Don't think it is strange - TM obviously wanted Gallagher last season. When we couldn't get him - we went for Brereton. Have to seriously question the scouting on this one. Though they are both physically similar in stature - Gallagher puts in far more effort - and is more robust than Brereton.

Obviously hope both come good - but at the moment Gallagher looks by far the most likely.

Eh? If you're blaming the scouting then its strange that it should be so bad!