Cardiff-home

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I said Graham and Gallagher we have to play direct. Not just Gallagher. We have no one running in behind their 2 centre backs of Cardiff. 

Look at ParsonBlue's comments about Chapman's performance yesterday. Did you attend? 

I would like us to play more entertaining football but we have gone back to basics to pick up points and keep clean sheets after the 1st 2 games both being lost. 

I don't think the Hull keeper was foul as it the Hull Keeper who push Armstrong 1st. 

Didn't Gallagher win 12 heading duels against Boro? did you miss this? He won some headers today. Plus Warnock put Bacuna on Dack to marked him out of game and it worked to his plan. We look more of a threat when Gallagher and Armstrong played upfront. 

aimless hoof? really? we played 68 long passes out of 348 passes we had today. Stats on the Rovers official website. which is just less than 20%. Compare to Cardiff which is over 29%

well you just answered your own point. Its a point against a team that is likely to be challenging for top 6 and Last season its a game we would have lost 

Armstrong was also stood in an offside position and interfering with play so its moot whether it was a foul or not.

No I didn't, and I am not professing to know how he has played for the reserves, but he has been impacting on games with goals and assists. My point is that I don't understand why he is nowhere near the first team squad in the first place.

I don't necessarily have bigoted views about wanting to play fancy football passing it out from the back, what I do expect is us to be dangerous and creating chances. Quite simply, we have not done that this season. Our goal haul is terrible, and we have not threatened in games. Charlton, rubbish attacking performance, 2 shots on target. Fulham, no major chances, no shots on target. Boro and Hull, slightly improved, 4 and 5 shots on targets and 1 goal in each game. Today was horrid to watch, theres no way of dressing it up.

Mowbray repeatedly bleated on about how we have been working on attacking styles and I have seen no signs of it. We don't look like a side that has worked on how it attacks. Gallagher is a further example of Mowbrays beloved wide forward experiments that repeatedly do not work. A real bright spark from the end of last season (one you personally predicted to be our player of the season so I know you rate him) in Joe Rothwell has been unceremoniously dumped, and Armstrong (slightly more deservedly, but hes miles better wide right than Gallagher) joins him on the bench. 

Is it a game we would have lost last season? We beat Leeds and Derby at home, and drew with Villa, all top 6 teams. I have repeatedly said that I am happy with our defensive improvement, but I am not going to ignore our attacking failings.

Just now, Harry The Bass said:

Inept going forward or thwarted by one of the best defences in the league?

I don't just mean today though, as I've said, a fluky own goal, a penalty and a goal that shouldnt have stood are not enough from 5 games, and we havent really deserved more than that.

 

[Hasta]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Look at ParsonBlue's comments about Chapman's performance yesterday. Did you attend? 

Did you attend the Oldham game where he played against senior, professional players?

[AggyBlue]

48 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Decent point, Hoilett best player on the park when he came on. Cardiff were just as stodgy as we were, which made for a tight affair.

I'd be dropping Dack, its just not good enough I'm afraid, total passenger today. Graham back to the bench too, he just isn't going to get any joy against decent sized CBs at this level. 

The Gallagher and Armstrong partnership looked to have some threat. I'm always a big fan of the little and large stiker combo in a 4-4-2.

Get Rothwell and Chapman on the wings and we might actually cause some problems. The back 4 are pretty settled and you have Nyambe and Tosin competing for spots, Travis and Johnson are two soldiers in the middle, its finding the right mix in the other 4 spots.

Still, happy enough with a point, with two tricky away games coming up in the next week.

Dack was man marked by Bacuna, followed him everywhere and did a good job of keeping him quiet.

[Blue blood]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The 2 main talking points are that we look far better defensively, and totally inept going forward. Seems folly to ignore either side.

Agree. 7 points from last 3 games has turned things round from a terrible start to an utterly average one. Shoring up our comical defence has come at the expense of our attacking play. 

That said at least this way round we're in with a shout of points. It's easier nicking a goal and winning 1-0 then having to.score 3 to win. I'm personally relieved we have at least stabilised and don't look the relegation certs of the first 2 games. Middle of the road seems about right for us if our first 11 is relatively fit. 

In honesty our goal threats for the last 3 years has been Graham, Dack and Mulgrew predominantly. One is out of the club and one is not in form. Regardless of how well we have done over the last 6 months this was always a question that was going to need answering. In some ways I'm optimistic as we have players I think can do so, in other ways as evidenced by most of our wide players bar Downing not really fitting in a plan out there suggests the solution is still a way off. 

I'm still not a fan of TM but the last 3 games have brought him some time imo. It looks like the defence is getting sorted out (bar the inclusion of Bennett) in the short term so hopefully a bit more attention can be spent on getting the right combo/style up front. Personally despite a poor start to the season I think Rothwell is part of the answer as is Chapman as an impact sub. Whether they will feature much is questionable though. 

 

 

[DE.]

We've had 61 shots so far this season but only 13 on target. It's not that we're failing to get shots at the opposition's goal, but they are clearly largely poor efforts as we've only scored three goals and none from open play. The idea that we have too much attacking talent to not score more is flawed imo. One of our most creative players in Rothwell is regularly on the bench. Our £5m striker is shoehorned onto the right where he's apparently an aerial duel specialist but it's evidently bringing nothing in terms of goals or assists. Our £7m striker is injured but even when he is available is another bench regular and when he does come on is played ineffectively out wide. Downing is obviously a very talented player but only managed two goals and one assist last season, and has one assist and no goals thus far this season. Armstrong is notoriously inconsistent and not a regular goalscorer. Chapman is in limbo in the u23's. 

The only two players who play regularly and have historically performed consistently are a 34 year old Danny Graham who's got 1 goal in 5 appearances so far, and Bradley Dack whose form has been gradually worsening since Christmas last season and no goals or assists so far this season suggests he's still struggling for reasons we can only speculate on.  

When one or two players are failing to produce you can point the finger at them, but when the entire attacking unit is failing to produce then it's something wrong with the game plan and the way the team is set up. It's obviously great that we've stopped shipping goals (at the moment) and that has led to us gaining a lot more points. We will go through a period where we start conceding, though, as all teams do - and if we still haven't sorted our ineptness in attack then we'll start dropping rapidly. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Agree. 7 points from last 3 games has turned things round from a terrible start to an utterly average one. Shoring up our comical defence has come at the expense of our attacking play. 

That said at least this way round we're in with a shout of points. It's easier nicking a goal and winning 1-0 then having to.score 3 to win. I'm personally relieved we have at least stabilised and don't look the relegation certs of the first 2 games. Middle of the road seems about right for us if our first 11 is relatively fit. 

In honesty our goal threats for the last 3 years has been Graham, Dack and Mulgrew predominantly. One is out of the club and one is not in form. Regardless of how well we have done over the last 6 months this was always a question that was going to need answering. In some ways I'm optimistic as we have players I think can do so, in other ways as evidenced by most of our wide players bar Downing not really fitting in a plan out there suggests the solution is still a way off. 

I'm still not a fan of TM but the last 3 games have brought him some time imo. It looks like the defence is getting sorted out (bar the inclusion of Bennett) in the short term so hopefully a bit more attention can be spent on getting the right combo/style up front. Personally despite a poor start to the season I think Rothwell is part of the answer as is Chapman as an impact sub. Whether they will feature much is questionable though. 

 

 

Agreed with the gist of this, just think its only fair to consider both the positive at the moment (a much improved defence) and also a massive worry. (our lack of ideas going forward) Theres no point pretending that both dont exist.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Hasta said:

Did you attend the Oldham game where he played against senior, professional players?

yes I did. 

[Neal]

Would have taken a point before the game so can't complain really. Seems this attempt at changing style has left them struggling at creating clear cut chances. For me, the biggest problem is more players need to be trying to get shots off in and outside the box, make defenders and keepers make more decisions. It's difficult when you're playing sides who sit so deep I suppose but I do feel Joe Rothwell is one of the few capable of opening teams up by breaking through the lines to drag players out of positions, cameo appearances from the bench aren't enough to get the best from him. 

[Hasta]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

yes I did. 

As an impact substitutiom, do you think he played well and contributed to changing the direction of the game? 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Hasta

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Armstrong was also stood in an offside position and interfering with play so its moot whether it was a foul or not.

No I didn't, and I am not professing to know how he has played for the reserves, but he has been impacting on games with goals and assists. My point is that I don't understand why he is nowhere near the first team squad in the first place.

I don't necessarily have bigoted views about wanting to play fancy football passing it out from the back, what I do expect is us to be dangerous and creating chances. Quite simply, we have not done that this season. Our goal haul is terrible, and we have not threatened in games. Charlton, rubbish attacking performance, 2 shots on target. Fulham, no major chances, no shots on target. Boro and Hull, slightly improved, 4 and 5 shots on targets and 1 goal in each game. Today was horrid to watch, theres no way of dressing it up.

Mowbray repeatedly bleated on about how we have been working on attacking styles and I have seen no signs of it. We don't look like a side that has worked on how it attacks. Gallagher is a further example of Mowbrays beloved wide forward experiments that repeatedly do not work. A real bright spark from the end of last season (one you personally predicted to be our player of the season so I know you rate him) in Joe Rothwell has been unceremoniously dumped, and Armstrong (slightly more deservedly, but hes miles better wide right than Gallagher) joins him on the bench. 

Is it a game we would have lost last season? We beat Leeds and Derby at home, and drew with Villa, all top 6 teams. I have repeatedly said that I am happy with our defensive improvement, but I am not going to ignore our attacking failings.

 

 

and for me wasn't interfering either but your points are moot as the goal stood and we won. That's all that matters. Thankgod we don't have VAR in the championship any time soon. 

Mowbray will look at alot more than just an assist and a goal. Its will be based on his overall performance and attitude. 

I have told you a number of times there is different ways of playing good football not just the Pep way. We have been through this a number of times so I don't see the need to go through again especially as we didn't have the discussion on here. 

Like I said again before Mowbray appears to got back to basics to get us points on the board. Which 7 points from 3 games is very good week and 3 clean sheets. Yes we aren't scoring alot of goals but as time goes on it will come. 

Rothwell's form hasn't been good enough for me so far this season. But there were signs against Hull of it coming back. Dack's form hasn't been good enough either 

Today was horrid to watch? well I predict this before the game, you aren't going to get good game against a Warnock's team. did you expect one really? Warnock has his style and he has success from it

None of Leeds, Derby and Villa play the Warnock style so that's doesn't compare to be honest roversfan99

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Hasta said:

As an impact substitutiom, do you think he played well and contributed to changing the direction of the game? 

He was ok tbh. Dack and Rothwell change the game for me

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[Blue blood]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Agreed with the gist of this, just think its only fair to consider both the positive at the moment (a much improved defence) and also a massive worry. (our lack of ideas going forward) Theres no point pretending that both dont exist.

Absolutely - that was what I was trying to do. However, relief that we've got some fight in us probably overshadowed some long standing concerns and our recent lack of goals. 

[Reedy You're A Star]

To be honest, against Sheff Utd, I would try Gally upfront with Rothwell, Dack and Downing behind. Graham is getting on a bit now and we've spent £5m on him. He's the closest we have in the squad to an understudy to Graham, so give him a try. Rothwell needs game time to get some form and is, on his day, a quality player. I feel between him, Dack and Downing we have enough to lock any Championship defense. We just need to stop humping it long and try and play it on the deck and get those 3 stringing passes together - we'll create chances, hopefully one of our front 4 will put them away. It all depends on TM admitting he's got it wrong with Gally on the wing and actually change the style to a more controlled passing style rather than the long ball we currently play.

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

and for me wasn't interfering either but your points are moot as the goal stood and we won. That's all that matters. Thankgod we don't have VAR in the championship any time soon. 

Mowbray will look at alot more than just an assist and a goal. Its will be based on his overall performance and attitude. 

I have told you a number of times there is different ways of playing good football not just the Pep way. We have been through this a number of times so I don't see the need to go through again especially as we didn't have the discussion on here. 

Like I said again before Mowbray appears to got back to basics to get us points on the board. Which 7 points from 3 games is very good week and 3 clean sheets. Yes we aren't scoring alot of goals but as time goes on it will come. 

Rothwell's form hasn't been good enough for me so far this season. But there were signs against Hull of it coming back. Dack's form hasn't been good enough either 

Today was horrid to watch? well I predict this before the game, you aren't going to get good game against a Warnock's team. did you expect one really? Warnock has his style and he has success from it

None of Leeds, Derby and Villa play the Warnock style so that's doesn't compare to be honest roversfan99

Absolutely, I am very happy that the ref did get it wrong, because standing in front of the goalkeeper is definitely interfering with play. Dont worry, you are allowed to admit a dodgy decision went in our favour, they wont over turn it!

Rothwell has started one game, what on earth are you on about that hes not been good enough. All the talk was about building a team with him in it during pre season, he barely played last season up until near the end of the season when he was superb. Start of the season, hes back on the bench. Gallagher has played all 5 games, 3 of which hes played in a position he clearly isnt capable of playing, as much as he does graft thats not enough.

So why did Mowbray try and play Warnock at his own game and go direct himself when he has smaller, pacier players in Rothwell and Armstrong? Mowbray was primarily responsible for our display being boring and ineffective in an attacking sense, its been a common theme all season.

Like I said, I am happy to give the manager credit for our improved defensive performances recently, but lets not hide the fact that going forward we have left a hell of a lot to be desired.

[rigger]

I am happy three clean sheets, a couple of chances to win it near the end. Charlton was a bad result, but that is history now. Lets stuff West Brom.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Reedy You're A Star said:

To be honest, against Sheff Utd, I would try Gally upfront with Rothwell, Dack and Downing behind. Graham is getting on a bit now and we've spent £5m on him. He's the closest we have in the squad to an understudy to Graham, so give him a try. Rothwell needs game time to get some form and is, on his day, a quality player. I feel between him, Dack and Downing we have enough to lock any Championship defense. We just need to stop humping it long and try and play it on the deck and get those 3 stringing passes together - we'll create chances, hopefully one of our front 4 will put them away. It all depends on TM admitting he's got it wrong with Gally on the wing and actually change the style to a more controlled passing style rather than the long ball we currently play.

Interesting conundrum is the Sheffield United team selection. I think Mowbray said post match that Downing will have the night off, and that Brereton and Adarabioyo are unlikely to be fit. For me, Chapman, Armstrong and Rothwell all have to start, theres no point giving the former 20 minutes at the end, let him start a game. The 4th place in the attacking positions I would give to Gallagher, to try and get him a goal. Dack obviously did get one in the cup, and theres an argument to get him firing but I would have him on the bench.

Further back, its difficult to justify playing Williams or Lenihan, but if we put them both in cotton wool, weve seen that Grayson and Platt will lead to us getting our arses handed to us which does no one any good, they were out of their depth v Oldham. 

[rigger]

10 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

I'd rather Bell at left back than Bennett to be fair.

 

10 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

I'd rather Bell at left back than Bennett to be fair.

Bennett doesn't play left back!

[Hasta]

Once again I thought everyone did well without creating much.

To be fair, I thought midfielder Elliott Bennett did well once he was pushed into midfield.

[Reedy You're A Star]

Is Chapman fit enough yet? He could be brought on for half an hour or so towards the end to introduce him slowly back into 1st team football so he doesn't break down again?

Personally, I haven't been impressed with Armstrong this season, so far. He tries hard and has pace, but absolutely no end product. Would it be worth giving JRC some game time? See if he can cut it at a higher level? Either way, Rothwell should get a good amount of time, from the start. He is one of our best players and needs to to be on the pitch more often than not. We need to try something different other than lumping to Graham, that's for sure.

[Neal]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

and for me wasn't interfering either but your points are moot as the goal stood and we won. That's all that matters. Thankgod we don't have VAR in the championship any time soon. 

Mowbray will look at alot more than just an assist and a goal. Its will be based on his overall performance and attitude. 

I have told you a number of times there is different ways of playing good football not just the Pep way. We have been through this a number of times so I don't see the need to go through again especially as we didn't have the discussion on here. 

Like I said again before Mowbray appears to got back to basics to get us points on the board. Which 7 points from 3 games is very good week and 3 clean sheets. Yes we aren't scoring alot of goals but as time goes on it will come. 

Rothwell's form hasn't been good enough for me so far this season. But there were signs against Hull of it coming back. Dack's form hasn't been good enough either 

Today was horrid to watch? well I predict this before the game, you aren't going to get good game against a Warnock's team. did you expect one really? Warnock has his style and he has success from it

None of Leeds, Derby and Villa play the Warnock style so that's doesn't compare to be honest roversfan99

 

Hasn't started a game though... 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Absolutely, I am very happy that the ref did get it wrong, because standing in front of the goalkeeper is definitely interfering with play. Dont worry, you are allowed to admit a dodgy decision went in our favour, they wont over turn it!

Rothwell has started one game, what on earth are you on about that hes not been good enough. All the talk was about building a team with him in it during pre season, he barely played last season up until near the end of the season when he was superb. Start of the season, hes back on the bench. Gallagher has played all 5 games, 3 of which hes played in a position he clearly isnt capable of playing, as much as he does graft thats not enough.

So why did Mowbray try and play Warnock at his own game and go direct himself when he has smaller, pacier players in Rothwell and Armstrong? Mowbray was primarily responsible for our display being boring and ineffective in an attacking sense, its been a common theme all season.

Like I said, I am happy to give the manager credit for our improved defensive performances recently, but lets not hide the fact that going forward we have left a hell of a lot to be desired.

I don't believe it was either pal. 

He hasn't been good enough all pre season and in his appearances so far this season. Hull he was good and today he wasn't. Plus Downing form has also better which you have overlooked.

I have already answered your 3rd point about us going direct. We had to go direct cos of playing Gallagher and Graham plus Dack being man mark by Cardiff which you have overlooked also. 

7 points from 3 games proved his recent approaches as been right. You have said you aren't bothered if its boring as long as win well you getting your wishes now but somehow still unhappy? 

3 clean sheets and 7 points in a week is an excellent week for me. Roll on to Saturday

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Neal said:

 

Hasn't started a game though... 

started at Fulham didn't he? 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I don't believe it was either pal. 

He hasn't been good enough all pre season and in his appearances so far this season. Hull he was good and today he wasn't. Plus Downing form has also better which you have overlooked.

I have already answered your 3rd point about us going direct. We had to go direct cos of playing Gallagher and Graham plus Dack being man mark by Cardiff which you have overlooked also. 

7 points from 3 games proved his recent approaches as been right. You have said you aren't bothered if its boring as long as win well you getting your wishes now but somehow still unhappy? 

3 clean sheets and 7 points in a week is an excellent week for me. Roll on to Saturday

He was repeatedly played with the kids in pre season, scored a belter at Bury, whereas Gallagher did nothing in pre season but ultimately pre season means diddly squat anyway, we lost every game before we won the title.

We didnt win today, which is the thread we are in. Wins are the most important, but any home game we dont win is a disappointment, that has to be the attitude if we are serious about top 6. Today definitely was winnable, Cardiff have lost their first 2 away games and came for the point. 

Your point about having to play direct because we played Gallagher and Graham is absolutely ridiculous, the main issue was playing them both in the first place! I have repeatedly said that Gallagher is simply not a wide player, and yet again playing him there yielded nothing. Would rather Rothwell, Armstrong or Chapman played wide over him. I havent overlooked Downings form, I would have played him left, Rothwell right. And Dack whilst of course acknowledging that he is responsible for impacting games was always going to struggle considering the way we played. Again, get Rothwell on with him, buzzing around him, playing one twos, rather than the crap we had on show today going forward.

It has been a good week, I just dont understand why you and others are acknowledging and praising the defensive improvement, which I have done and understand, but are dismissing the worries about our lack of attacking threat. If you think 3 goals, an own goal, a penalty and a header that may have been disallowed, are good enough from 5 games, accompanied with very little threat, then you are easily satisfied.

Edited August 24, 2019 by roversfan99

[Roverinbelfast]

Back in Belfast after my first visit to ewood this season. 

Decent point in my opinion, the game could have went either way. 

Plus points. Williams and travis both excellent. Walton in goal is starting to change my opinion of him. 

Bad points. We just don't look like can buy a goal at the minute. Dack,  we Downing, Graham, Gallacher all very quiet and if we were still playing now i don't think we would have scored. 

That’s me finished now with games until November due to work commitments. Onwards and upwards. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

He was repeatedly played with the kids in pre season, scored a belter at Bury, whereas Gallagher did nothing in pre season but ultimately pre season means diddly squat anyway, we lost every game before we won the title.

We didnt win today, which is the thread we are in. Wins are the most important, but any home game we dont win is a disappointment, that has to be the attitude if we are serious about top 6. Today definitely was winnable, Cardiff have lost their first 2 away games and came for the point. 

Your point about having to play direct because we played Gallagher and Graham is absolutely ridiculous, the main issue was playing them both in the first place! I have repeatedly said that Gallagher is simply not a wide player, and yet again playing him there yielded nothing. Would rather Rothwell, Armstrong or Chapman played wide over him. I havent overlooked Downings form, I would have played him left, Rothwell right. And Dack whilst of course acknowledging that he is responsible for impacting games was always going to struggle considering the way we played. Again, get Rothwell on with him, buzzing around him, playing one twos, rather than the crap we had on show today going forward.

It has been a good week, I just dont understand why you and others are acknowledging and praising the defensive improvement, which I have done and understand, but are dismissing the worries about our lack of attacking threat. If you think 3 goals, an own goal, a penalty and a header that may have been disallowed, are good enough from 5 games, accompanied with very little threat, then you are easily satisfied.

pre season is very important. 

A point against a Neil Warnock team is always good point in my opinion. I havent come away with any disappointment from today game. Its a good point and happy with another clean sheet. 

Both played. fact. So we had to play that way. Dack isn't haven't an impact cos Teams have come wise to him and not getting him a kick. Today was perfect example. 

Mowbray has stop us conceding goals and make us tougher and keeping clean sheets after losing the first 2 games. You have admit that you are happy with boring 1 nil wins as long as we are doing win. You got your wish pal. cant have it both ways. so which way do you want it?