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[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Shows in my opinion though that, for better or worse, he doesn't really react to fan pressure. 

No, he doesn't at all.

In fact on certain things the worse something goes and the more the criticism mounts the more he seems to dig his heels in and persist with it despite the fact it clearly doesn't work and we have better options. Bennett getting an extended run at RB being the latest example.

[Adam C]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

I haven't seen him this season yet Paul, when he was here in League 1 I thought he looked absolute quality and head and shoulders above anyone else we had bar Dack and should have walked into the team, especially at home where we have always struggled to break teams down under Mowbray.

Yet the manager more or less completely overlooked him then and has completely overlooked him since re-signing him permanently making spurious excuses about him not being fit enough to play when he landed in January.

Fairly bizarre for me. Once again he walks into the team for me if it's a choice between him or a central striker attempting to fill in out wide. I really don't understand either why you you would re-sign a player you clearly don't fancy and will do practically anything to avoid selecting.

I haven’t seen him play much but he was great when he came on against Rangers. I’d like to see him play again.

[DE.]

27 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I haven't seen him this season yet Paul, when he was here in League 1 I thought he looked absolute quality and head and shoulders above anyone else we had bar Dack and should have walked into the team, especially at home where we have always struggled to break teams down under Mowbray.

Yet the manager more or less completely overlooked him then and has completely overlooked him since re-signing him permanently making spurious excuses about him not being fit enough to play when he landed in January.

Fairly bizarre for me. Once again he walks into the team for me if it's a choice between him or a central striker attempting to fill in out wide. I really don't understand either why you you would re-sign a player you clearly don't fancy and will do practically anything to avoid selecting.

Not too dissimilar to the Rothwell situation. A player he signed and who could have absolutely huge resale value with a good run in the side, showing TM in a very good light as far as player recruitment goes, but instead he's relegated to the bench whilst we try to shoehorn a striker on the right and a 35 year old on the left who, despite clearly still being a very talented player, has no resale or long-term value for the club. 

I don't think any of Mowbray's decisions are down to appeasing the fans. He's just a manager who lacks courage a lot of the time and sticks to his guns even when things blatantly are not working (Bennet at RB, Evans/Smallwood, strikers out wide, Mulgrew at CB). Any changes he makes are usually because his hand is forced or it becomes so obvious and the mistakes go on for so long that the pressure becomes too much. It took until March last season to drop a clearly underperforming Mulgrew and he still started our first game of this season. Travis was only introduced after Smallwood was suspended and results immediately improved with him in the side. Similarly Rothwell only got into the starting line up right at the end of the season when results were so bad that there was little to lose from throwing him in. Now he's back on the bench.

History unfortunately shows that Mowbray is not a manager who learns from his mistakes. He seems absolutely convinced his vision is the way to go, despite that vision ultimately costing him his job at WBA, Celtic, Boro and Coventry. I believe history will ultimately repeat itself here at some point, and it's a real shame as I do believe Mowbray has a lot of good points as a manager. He's just too rigid and unable to adapt to change things that aren't working. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by DE.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Because he is a young lad with potential and we got him cheaply due to his injury record 

But above you "like"  the post that basically says he's hopeless and to my post he's'a young lad with potential". See below!!

   6 hours ago,  Paul said: 

I struggle with the constant calls for Chapman. I can't recall the last time I saw him turn out at Ewood. How can anyone think or be sure he will help to solve some of the attacking issues we currently have??

I've asked this question more than once and never got an answer----"Why did Mowbray sign him?"

You've written the player off so what's that say about the manager?

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, 47er said:

But above you "like"  the post that basically says he's hopeless and to my post he's'a young lad with potential". See below!!

   6 hours ago,  Paul said: 

I struggle with the constant calls for Chapman. I can't recall the last time I saw him turn out at Ewood. How can anyone think or be sure he will help to solve some of the attacking issues we currently have??

I've asked this question more than once and never got an answer----"Why did Mowbray sign him?"

You've written the player off so what's that say about the manager?

 

•  

No, I liked a post that referenced his injury record. Don't make stuff up. 

A number of posters have answered your question from their own opinions. No one knows for definite why Mowbray actually signed him, only Mowbray. 

To be honest, I'm lost in the point your are struggling to make and I wouldn't think I am the only one. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

9 hours ago, Paul said:

I struggle with the constant calls for Chapman. I can't recall the last time I saw him turn out at Ewood. How can anyone think or be sure he will help to solve some of the attacking issues we currently have??

Presumably because Gallagher for example has been given 3 chances in a row wide, following the lead of Brereton last season who when he did feature usually played wide, and its not proved a successful tactic, surely a natural wide man would be at least worth a go.

No one can be sure that Chapman is the answer, but he isnt anywhere near the squad and its a massive curiosity.

He played v Oldham, was hit and miss but played a couple of superb passes amidst the obvious ring rust. We saw what he is about in League 1, direct running. 

[Ossydave]

So Walton has made the EFL team of the week again, twice in a row now. Still, Raya was amazing aye?

[Bbrovers2288]

If mowbray and the club really did have no interest in fan opinion then why host the fans evenings? Fans are the heartbeat of the club, without us there is no club. Sure they can’t please everyone but they like to know opinion. 

[DE.]

It's obviously great for PR and helps keep the fans onside. Obviously not so much when you promise something at those fan evenings and then backtrack, but that's another story.

[Paul]

5 hours ago, 47er said:

I've asked this question more than once and never got an answer----"Why did Mowbray sign him?"

You've written the player off so what's that say about the manager?

Where have I written the player off? I struggle to understand the constant calls for him to play, that was my point.

I can't recall seeing him turn out in the last 12 months. I may well be wrong but I don't think he's played a league game in that time. So my point is how do fans know he's the answer? Far from writing him off.

[Bbrovers2288]

4 hours ago, DE. said:

It's obviously great for PR and helps keep the fans onside. Obviously not so much when you promise something at those fan evenings and then backtrack, but that's another story.

In mowbrays defence- which I don’t often, he gets criticised for saying the defence isn’t good enough and changes will be made, from that defence he has shipped out raya, Mulgrew and bell benched. He did bring in Cunningham so defenders did come and changes were made

[DE.]

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

In mowbrays defence- which I don’t often, he gets criticised for saying the defence isn’t good enough and changes will be made, from that defence he has shipped out raya, Mulgrew and bell benched. He did bring in Cunningham so defenders did come and changes were made

Yeah, but only after we had already been beaten by Charlton and he told us in July that our defence "was alright". The Mulgrew/Cunningham stuff was all clearly last minute and I do not believe it was planned beyond the last day or two of the window. Tosin was our only defensive reinforcement until Charlton exposed our issues once again and forced Mowbray into a decision. We look OK now but an injury to Cunningham means we have Bell as our only proper LB option if Williams is now a CB, and if Williams/Tosin/Lenihan get injured then we're down to Grayson and Platt as backup. 

So I don't really buy a defence of Mowbray on this one. Defence looks good for now, but I'll see how the first half of the season plays out before deciding if he really fulfilled his promise on sorting out our defence. 

[Bbrovers2288]

Just now, DE. said:

Yeah, but only after we had already been beaten by Charlton and he told us in July that our defence "was alright". The Mulgrew/Cunningham stuff was all clearly last minute and I do not believe it was planned beyond the last day or two of the window. Tosin was our only defensive reinforcement until Charlton exposed our issues once again and forced Mowbray into a decision. We look OK now but an injury to Cunningham means we have Bell as our only proper LB option if Williams is now a CB, and if Williams/Tosin/Lenihan get injured then we're down to Grayson and Platt as backup. 

So I don't really buy a defence of Mowbray on this one. Defence looks good for now, but I'll see how the first half of the season plays out before deciding if he really fulfilled his promise on sorting out our defence. 

Not saying he sorted it, saying he did as promised to fans 

[DE.]

Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

Not saying he sorted it, saying he did as promised to fans 

In terms of net we only have one extra defender, not defenders. Raya and Mulgrew out, Walton, Tosin and Cunningham in. A stronger backline yes, but I don't think anybody expected that he meant shipping out Raya & Mulgrew when he made that promise. 

It doesn't really matter though. Managers will say whatever they need to say to appease fans, so it's a case of accepting that words mean nothing and actions determine whether a manager works out or fails. If Mowbray does well this season I don't give a toss what he promised or didn't promise. If he fails then it'll be because of his actions, not his words. 

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Not saying he sorted it, saying he did as promised to fans 

Didn't exactly pan out that way though did it the way things unfolded suggested he was going to go with Mulgrew and Lenihen with Williams back up and possibly Rodwell showing up again.

Things happened at the last min that resembled a bit of panic although he'd been trying to get the City lad in a while i know. He must've realised he'd better be true to his word after seeing Mulgrew playing like everyone knew he would again. 

Mowbray has an uncanny knack of turning things around when it all seems set to crumble which is a good trait to have but it doesn't half take him a long time for pennies to drop. However i'll cut him some slack as i still think other people behind the scenes at Ewood have too much say on the comings and goings so he could've been held back until someone else was finally convinced to let him act but who knows.

[47er]

9 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No, I liked a post that referenced his injury record. Don't make stuff up. 

A number of posters have answered your question from their own opinions. No one knows for definite why Mowbray actually signed him, only Mowbray. 

To be honest, I'm lost in the point your are struggling to make and I wouldn't think I am the only one. 

I'm not making anything up. You liked a post that dismissed Chapman as a player, but when I asked "why TM signed him" you said he has "potential"!

My point is, what sort of manager signs players he seemingly has no intention of playing? Chapman is is one, Brereton is another.

[47er]

6 hours ago, Paul said:

Where have I written the player off? I struggle to understand the constant calls for him to play, that was my point.

I can't recall seeing him turn out in the last 12 months. I may well be wrong but I don't think he's played a league game in that time. So my point is how do fans know he's the answer? Far from writing him off.

Sounds awfully to me like you've written him off! Just like the manager who signed him!

[Blue blood]

Just now, 47er said:

I'm not making anything up. You liked a post that dismissed Chapman as a player, but when I asked "why TM signed him" you said he has "potential"!

My point is, what sort of manager signs players he seemingly has no intention of playing? Chapman is is one, Brereton is another.

Think TM realises he has dropped an absolute clanger with Bereton. Chapman is a mystery, as is Rothwell who is an even bigger mystery given his overall performances when he plays!

[Pedro]

17 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

I personally saw a player who struggled to do the basics but there were a couple of glimpses of his ability. Nowhere near ready for first team

That could be a description of Raya, Bell, Evans, Smallwood, Brereton and a host of others from our recent first team.

[Paul]

4 hours ago, 47er said:

Sounds awfully to me like you've written him off! Just like the manager who signed him!

Really? How on Earth could I make any judgement when I haven't seen him on the pitch in a year or more? Last time I remember seeing him was in League 1 when he played well. Is he fit?

The question I'm asking, which I appreciate you have difficulty comprehending, is how are fans judging Chapman is part of the solution to our attacking problems? What is the basis for this?

I could ask basically the same about Adarabioyo, Davenport, Rankin Costello or Butterworth who I haven't seen play - I know they are not necessarily attacking players. The point is why clamour for a player's inclusion without any apparent evidence he would be right for the role?

Let's face it few on here go to reserve games so the clamour is based on what? No evidence whatsoever.

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Paul

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

I'm not making anything up. You liked a post that dismissed Chapman as a player, but when I asked "why TM signed him" you said he has "potential"!

My point is, what sort of manager signs players he seemingly has no intention of playing? Chapman is is one, Brereton is another.

I rate him as a player. Using peoples "likes" as a basis to argue against them is a new level of grasping at straws, even for your good self! 

I agree the Brereton one is peculiar to say the least. I have said on here a few times that whatever about him not featuring last season, to be a bit part player this season , after the fee we paid, does undoubtedly raise serious questions.  I watched an interview with Mowbray the other day where he was discussing signings and he said soemthing along the lines of the following, I paraphrase

You scout players and you hope you do a good job, you don't always get it right, but I think we have done pretty well

It made me think of Brereton 

[47er]

5 hours ago, Paul said:

Really? How on Earth could I make any judgement when I haven't seen him on the pitch in a year or more? Last time I remember seeing him was in League 1 when he played well. Is he fit?

The question I'm asking, which I appreciate you have difficulty comprehending, is how are fans judging Chapman is part of the solution to our attacking problems? What is the basis for this?

I could ask basically the same about Adarabioyo, Davenport, Rankin Costello or Butterworth who I haven't seen play - I know they are not necessarily attacking players. The point is why clamour for a player's inclusion without any apparent evidence he would be right for the role?

Let's face it few on here go to reserve games so the clamour is based on what? No evidence whatsoever.

 

I'll ignore the "comprehending" insult.

I'm not sure that there has been a "clamour" for Chapman to be chosen.I  think you're exaggerating there. There has been some bewilderment though that he was signed so many months ago and he's never featured since.

The circular argument that you haven't seen him on the pitch for a year or more and therefore you can't judge him begs the real question.

Why haven't we seen him in so long? Is he seriously injured? Was he seriously injured when we signed him?

Surely you remember him from first time round. He was terrific, skilled, pacy and exciting.

We were all delighted when he signed ( I'm confident in saying that) so what's happened?

 

 

[47er]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I rate him as a player. Using peoples "likes" as a basis to argue against them is a new level of grasping at straws, even for your good self! 

Silly me, thinking that if you liked a post you agreed with its content!

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, 47er said:

Silly me, thinking that if you liked a post you agreed with its content!

For the 3rd time seeing as you are struggling, I liked the reference to his injury record being a concern, not his ability.

In fact,I don't even recall there being mention to his ability in the post and couldn't be bothered checking!  

Edited August 27, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Blue blood]

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I rate him as a player. Using peoples "likes" as a basis to argue against them is a new level of grasping at straws, even for your good self! 

I agree the Brereton one is peculiar to say the least. I have said on here a few times that whatever about him not featuring last season, to be a bit part player this season , after the fee we paid, does undoubtedly raise serious questions.  I watched an interview with Mowbray the other day where he was discussing signings and he said soemthing along the lines of the following, I paraphrase

You scout players and you hope you do a good job, you don't always get it right, but I think we have done pretty well

It made me think of Brereton 

Not too sure about us having done pretty well whatsoever! Of our big signings for the last 3 years only Dack has been a success. Hard to judge this season's lot 6 games in but having done a thread the past 2 years evaluating our signings the concensus was that we were batting at about 50:50 which is a poor ratio, especially for a club with limited resources. 

I find the Chapman situation odder than Bereton. I think all including TM recognise Bereton was a colossal mistake but there was an element of unknown about him before Bereton came. Chapman however had been with us previously on loan and we knew exactly what we were getting but don't use him. That's the one I don't get.