other Blackburn Rovers Documentary / Help Needed!

[Miller11]

More than happy to give you an interview Joe - though I may not be able to give you the sort of content you are after.

[Miller11]

7 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

A few questions if I may...

Who’s commissioned the documentary ?

Is it your project ? Who controls the editorial line ?

What’s the overall objective ?

Who is the intended audience ?

Why now ? 

Please could you answer this Joe.

Just had a look at the questionnaire you’ve put out, before I answer it I think I’d like to understand a bit more about the project.

Im not keen on this question:

 

[AllRoverAsia]

It was when I saw that section I decided not to bother. I have no intention of being part of any whitewash programme.

The apparent belief, as posted, that the Vs were "badly advised and naive" does not sit well either. They were involved and culpable from the moment the 'project' was put to them. I've seen enough to satisfy me on that.

Edited September 5, 2019 by AllRoverAsia

[DE.]

Not sure this is the right place to advertise a project like this tbh. Would be better off posting it on the FB fan groups and Twitter as most people on these platforms have moved on from the past and forgiven the owners for what they've done. 'We're at our natural level', 'would have been relegated eventually', 'should be applauded for keeping the lights on', etc. I imagine you'd get a response closer to what you're after there. 

[USABlue]

4 hours ago, darrenrover said:

Shame Jack didn't personally oversee a transfer of ownership prior to his passing. If only..

I am sure Jack was not expecting his family to totally shit on the love if his life.  

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Please could you answer this Joe.

Just had a look at the questionnaire you’ve put out, before I answer it I think I’d like to understand a bit more about the project.

Im not keen on this question:

 

Sorry but this is an agenda laid bare.

Or just very very naive.

How about focusing on a future without horrific directionless owners - like Portsmouth, Blackpool, Bolton?

How about hoping for a future where fans are at the heart of a football club and not just a necessary evil?

[OldEwoodBlue]

 

[OldEwoodBlue]

On 04/09/2019 at 19:20, JoeHarvey said:

There’s a great doc on YouTube ALL about Venkys and their mistakes. That’s not what this is. It won’t be glossed over, its a part of our history, but it’s not the main focus. The main focus is the future.

present

[Proudtobeblue&white]

I fully understand supporters who support regardless, I fully understand that folk have a free choice. How many of the current ST holders are pre-Loons? How many are kids, and go because it's a day out with mum and dad? How many are teens who just go for the beer? Fact......the Loons tenure has been an unmitigated disaster and the attendances reflect that. As others have said, business around Ewood has suffered, the town has suffered, most importantly we have suffered. 

How can that be glossed over?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I agree that if he is going to do The documentary it can’t be underplayed the damage and destruction they have caused. I’m all for the positives of Doncaster and the future but it needs to be the true grim warts and all to how we ended up playing Doncaster in the first place. It will probably re open old wounds and cause some conflict on social media but isn’t that what all good journalism does.

Hence the reason for the clear mention of Venkys, the questions about Kean etc.. it's in there, it's just not the main focus.

As mentioned several times, there's already a great doc detailed Venkys reign etc on YouTube, not only do I not want to double over on what's already been mentioned there, but I feel as though there's nothing new to say about them that isn't in that documentary already really.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Please could you answer this Joe.

Just had a look at the questionnaire you’ve put out, before I answer it I think I’d like to understand a bit more about the project.

Im not keen on this question:

 

Why not? It's pretty clear. This question is mainly to see whether people would rather the whole thing be about Venkys, or not. If it's overwhelmingly one way, then I guess I'll have to reconsider.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Miller11 said:

More than happy to give you an interview Joe - though I may not be able to give you the sort of content you are after.

Why's that? I don't understand why people think I don't want to hear about Venkys. It's not going to be missed, it's there, it's just not going to be taking up the entire thing, as there's already a documentary out there for that and there's nothing new to add besides promotion from League One.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

 

Thank you

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Proudtobeblue&white said:

I fully understand supporters who support regardless, I fully understand that folk have a free choice. How many of the current ST holders are pre-Loons? How many are kids, and go because it's a day out with mum and dad? How many are teens who just go for the beer? Fact......the Loons tenure has been an unmitigated disaster and the attendances reflect that. As others have said, business around Ewood has suffered, the town has suffered, most importantly we have suffered. 

 How can that be glossed over?

I think glossed over is unfair, that's not what I said, just how it's been interpreted. It's simply not the main focus, but will still be there of course.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes, if anything the documentary should be putting right the press headlines (a la moyes etc) that the fans were out of order with kean. a chance to put our version across , so don’t waste it

Sure! Hit me with it  

[Miller11]

42 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

Why not? It's pretty clear. This question is mainly to see whether people would rather the whole thing be about Venkys, or not. If it's overwhelmingly one way, then I guess I'll have to reconsider.

Because it’s nowhere near that simple. I don’t know if it’s your aim or not, but that’s the same divisive line a lot of people seem to be using at the moment. It’s a pretty common narrative amongst a growing number of our fans to categorise other supporters in one of two camps, pretty much as outlined in that question. It’s used by the more “positive” side to attack the more “negative” side frequently.

My colours are pretty much nailed to the mast as far as Venky’s are concerned, and unsurprisingly I speak to and associate with a lot of people who despise them as much as I do. There is never any talk of “making them pay” aside from an odd off the cuff comment. The prevailing thought presently is generally concern for our future, because of their idiotic actions in our recent past.

Some poignant reminders of their actions recently on here (see Bury thread). And while Jerome Anderson’s involvement can not be understated, absolving Venky’s of any accountability is absolutely ridiculous in my eyes. Jerome wasn’t responsible for Shebby Singh or Owen Coyle (was he?). Even if he was, its under Venky’s watch that they have taken us from the model of how to run a team sensibly and survive in the Premier League to absolutely bleeding money. They have lost a generation of fans. They have taken us from being 20 years ahead of Burnley to 20 years behind them in less than a decade. Everything has been dumbed down at the club from top to bottom after the foundations Jack built. 

Its not even like we did what other clubs did and shot for the moon, over stretched ourselves and paid for it later. It’s just been one long downward spiral caused by negligence, mismanagement and arrogance. And a runners up position in the third tier, though fun in isolation, isn’t a decent pay off.

Any discussion on the last 10 years, what’s happening now, and what’s likely to occur in the future needs to focus on Venky’s... and there’s nothing good to say there.

 

[roversfan99]

57 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

Why not? It's pretty clear. This question is mainly to see whether people would rather the whole thing be about Venkys, or not. If it's overwhelmingly one way, then I guess I'll have to reconsider.

The options available are bizarre. It suggests IMO that if you are attending games, looking forward to the season or what will happen next, or whatever, then you are doing so whilst embracing the fact that Venkys are here. I always have been looking at what will happen next but I still hate Venkys and have absolutely no faith in them or want for them to be associated with the club, looking forward and not embracing Venkys are not mutually exclusive. Totally understand why so many have taken exception to the question and have queried the potential agenda or purpose.

Going off on a tangent, I would also echo those who have correctly stated how incredibly naive it is for some to remove the responsibility to Venkys of what they have done to our club and put it down to bad advice that they have learnt from. Also incredibly braindead to defend them for "footing the bill" for their own club by using extreme examples such as Bury or Bolton.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The options available are bizarre. It suggests IMO that if you are attending games, looking forward to the season or what will happen next, or whatever, then you are doing so whilst embracing the fact that Venkys are here. I always have been looking at what will happen next but I still hate Venkys and have absolutely no faith in them or want for them to be associated with the club, looking forward and not embracing Venkys are not mutually exclusive. Totally understand why so many have taken exception to the question and have queried the potential agenda or purpose.

Going off on a tangent, I would also echo those who have correctly stated how incredibly naive it is for some to remove the responsibility to Venkys of what they have done to our club and put it down to bad advice that they have learnt from. Also incredibly braindead to defend them for "footing the bill" for their own club by using extreme examples such as Bury or Bolton.

Just a question, and there's a clear option for "neither of these apply". I think many would be surprised about the anonymous results so far after about 35 entries. I want to present something which is representative of everyones opinions, and I'm sorry but the general gist so far isn't to bash Venkys for an hour.

There's no agenda. I'm not a fan of Venkys, but as mentioned, there is already a documentary all about them. I'm not just going to repeat what's already been covered.

I'm not removing responsibility, I'm merely asking questions, with answers which have so far confirmed my thoughts that people don't want to sit and listen to the doom and gloom of Venkys again.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Because it’s nowhere near that simple. I don’t know if it’s your aim or not, but that’s the same divisive line a lot of people seem to be using at the moment. It’s a pretty common narrative amongst a growing number of our fans to categorise other supporters in one of two camps, pretty much as outlined in that question. It’s used by the more “positive” side to attack the more “negative” side frequently.

 My colours are pretty much nailed to the mast as far as Venky’s are concerned, and unsurprisingly I speak to and associate with a lot of people who despise them as much as I do. There is never any talk of “making them pay” aside from an odd off the cuff comment. The prevailing thought presently is generally concern for our future, because of their idiotic actions in our recent past.

Some poignant reminders of their actions recently on here (see Bury thread). And while Jerome Anderson’s involvement can not be understated, absolving Venky’s of any accountability is absolutely ridiculous in my eyes. Jerome wasn’t responsible for Shebby Singh or Owen Coyle (was he?). Even if he was, its under Venky’s watch that they have taken us from the model of how to run a team sensibly and survive in the Premier League to absolutely bleeding money. They have lost a generation of fans. They have taken us from being 20 years ahead of Burnley to 20 years behind them in less than a decade. Everything has been dumbed down at the club from top to bottom after the foundations Jack built. 

Its not even like we did what other clubs did and shot for the moon, over stretched ourselves and paid for it later. It’s just been one long downward spiral caused by negligence, mismanagement and arrogance. And a runners up position in the third tier, though fun in isolation, isn’t a decent pay off.

Any discussion on the last 10 years, what’s happening now, and what’s likely to occur in the future needs to focus on Venky’s... and there’s nothing good to say there.

 

There's no aim or hidden agenda. I want to make a documentary. This documentary isn't all about Venkys and what they did wrong. If that's what you're after then I can't help you. It's in there, it's absolutely a part of this film, but it's not the main focus. I don't like the Venkys, I accept some things are the way they are now, but if I was to fill out the survey myself, I don't think I could tick yes on the "could you ever forgive Venkys" question.

I don't see in any way how me making a documentary that isn't about Venkys absolves them of anything. It's like saying that Heinz doing an advert about brown sauce means they clearly have hidden agenda's about red. It's not like that. I have my own personal opinions on them, BUT IT'S NOT THE POINT OF THIS FILM. There's already a film out there all about Venkys, and I don't feel as though there's enough new to say about them at this stage.

I don't see how focusing on the future has to be a discussion about Venkys and the past, this doc is about Blackburn Rovers, the team, not just the clubs ownership. I want to hear from fans about their opinions on Ben Brereton, what they think of Tony Mowbray, can they see the club getting promoted, how did they find League One, what are people's favourite memories, why do you go to games... etc etc. It's just a piece about the team in 2019 - and of course that has to include the exposition of how we got here, but that's that. I'm not setting out to make a film about our owners, one already exists

Also, EVERYTHING you say RE: Venky's I basically agree with, I don't see why that's being skewed at all.

[Guest]

Will be some time before I close this survey off but a little update so far on the results. I appreciate what people think of Venkys, and most opinions I share, but it's not the aim here, I don't want to sit and bash Venkys for an hour because it won't achieve anything, won't be any fun to make, and won't be any fun to watch.

More people could forgive Venkys than say they can't, most people enjoyed our season in League One, and not many people believe TM can get us into the Premier League.

• 26% of people who filled out the survey have never had a season ticket at Rovers.
• 46% of people could find it in themselves to forgive the Venkys/Rao family, 31% couldn't and 23% said maybe.
• 69% of people said they liked Gary Bowyer, with 3.8% of people saying they didn't like Gary Bowyer. 
• Only 73% of people said they hated Steve Kean
• 69% of people like Tony Mowbray
• Only 27% believe TM will get Blackburn into the Premier League
• 58% of people say TM is the best manager the club has had under Venkys
• 80% of people enjoyed our season in League One
• 61% of people who answered the survey don't currently have a season ticket
• 26% of people who answered the survey have had a season ticket for over 20 years.

[Miller11]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

 

• Only 73% of people said they hated Steve Kean

That would probably lead me to ask if I’m asking the right people

[AllRoverAsia]

 

 

 

 

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

 

58% of people say TM is the best manager the club has had under Venkys

I can only assume that 100% of those 'voting' forgot that Big Sam was a Manager under Vs. Then again they weren't asked to 'vote' on Big Sam.

[Guest]

Just now, Miller11 said:

That would probably lead me to ask if I’m asking the right people

Survey only been posted on here and Facebook. What do you mean the “right people”? That’s a bit like the remoaners asking for referendum after referendum til they get the result they want  

[Dreams of 1995]

Any sort of coverage about Rovers will get a watch from me. If you want to talk about how the current season is going, or our potential to get into the Premier League, or our foray into League 1 then unfortunately all roads lead to the owners. It's synonymous with any talk of current affairs.

I respect what you are doing though. I can see why you don't want to go back digging through old dirt but ultimately there's a bitterness amongst the Rovers die hard towards the Venkys, irregardless of the talk of them "keeping the lights on". They have gutted the club and their early years caused many Rovers fans to fall out, some forever.

I'd like to hear from the 46% who could forgive them and what it would take for that to happen. To be quite frank they could put a billion into the club, put a proper board in place, get Guardiola in and I still wouldn't. I'd enjoy the success just as I sat through the failure but make no mistake that I won't ever forgive them for making me traipse to Wimbledon on a freezing Tuesday night.

In hindsight Wimbledon was a bad example after what happened to them. The point remains though - they took us down to that level and they have shown no remorse except a "the owners remain committed.........................to bastardising this club"

Edited September 6, 2019 by Dreams of 1995

[Guest]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Any sort of coverage about Rovers will get a watch from me. If you want to talk about how the current season is going, or our potential to get into the Premier League, or our foray into League 1 then unfortunately all roads lead to the owners. It's synonymous with any talk of current affairs.

I respect what you are doing though. I can see why you don't want to go back digging through old dirt but ultimately there's a bitterness amongst the Rovers die hard towards the Venkys, irregardless of the talk of them "keeping the lights on". They have gutted the club and their early years caused many Rovers fans to fall out, some forever.

I'd like to hear from the 46% who could forgive them and what it would take for that to happen. To be quite frank they could put a billion into the club, put a proper board in place, get Guardiola in and I still wouldn't. I'd enjoy the success just as I sat through the failure but make no mistake that I won't ever forgive them for making me traipse to Wimbledon on a freezing Tuesday night.

I agree, for me I couldn't ever sit here and forgive and forget what the Venkys did. And I agree with your opening statement, which is why of course the Venkys will be a part of this film, but just not the main focus.