January transfer window 2020

[OJRovers]

  On 01/02/2020 at 08:11, Paul Mani said:

Ok, thanks. So maybe the V’s £5m contribution each year brings those operating losses from say £12m down to £7m and so over the two seasons (18/19 & 19/20) we have lost £14m plus the £12m net that @J*B referred to which would put us on £26m over two years and bang on track.

So theoretically, with a third of our earners out of contract in the summer and should the likes of JRC, Buckley, Thompson etc break through then we should have a healthy-ish budget to trade in the operating losses plus some money (£6m) to spend on fees? As long as V’s are willing to pump in another £5m...

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The annual losses need to be adjusted to add back the academy costs (£3m?) and there will be £3m profit on Raya. So we're not exactly on the brink of Ffp like the club would have everyone believe.

[MarkBRFC]

Just a reminder that Mowbray has now had 6 transfer windows, and still hasnt signed a permanent defender of championship quality.

The back four of Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew and Williams that started his first game 3 years ago are all still here, with only Bell signed on a permanent deal to compliment them.

GK, sold an academy grad for a very low fee, and replaced him with a worse keeper who isn't ours, well yet anyway.

Up front, he inherited Graham, Gallagher, Emnes & Joao. Three years later we have Armstrong who is an improvement, Gallagher who has regressed, Graham who is three years older and Brereton who has been a disaster. Stood still if we're being very generous, in my opinion slightly worse off.

Midfield I think we can all agree has been improved, emergence of Travis with JRC waiting in the wings, Dack being our main man, Downing and Holtby being good signings and the obvious talent of Rothwell complementing them. Johnson indifferent.

Apart from the midfield, it doesnt look good, and if we haven't done it in six windows I hold out no hope of Mowbray addressing the defensive situation in the summer.

Edited February 1, 2020 by MarkBRFC

[Paul Mani]

  On 01/02/2020 at 10:31, Stuart said:

Why is the Summer big or huge? You say this now but when it’s another huge disappointment you’ll be telling everyone that it doesn’t matter.

 

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Bore off mate. The numbers provided and the squad dynamic makes this summer huge. 
 

Just because I refuse to sit wallowing in my own shit, feeling sorry for myself doesn’t mean I’m naive or behind the door. I say it as I see it. I don’t try to solve problems that I have no control of but I do try to understand.

In fact, I stated clearly earlier in the season that I thought we’d benefit from a change of direction / manager. I still feel this way. I just don’t feel the need to regurgitate it every three hours on BRFCs like some pre pubertal child. 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Paul Mani

[arbitro]

  On 01/02/2020 at 09:55, Mashed Potatoes said:

Actually my suggestion is the same as yours - but it is important that fans show patience with young players because there are going to days when it doesn't happen for them. Do you see some of the individuals who post on here showing patience ? I don't. If they don't get success right this minute they want the manager and everyone else OUT !!!

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It's a message board where people's opinions differ but ultimately count for nothing. The point is that I don't believe Mowbray will blood some of these younger players. It's sink or swim time but Mowbray is still wearing arm bands.

[Stuart]

  On 01/02/2020 at 10:40, Paul Mani said:

Bore off mate. The numbers provided and the squad dynamic makes this summer huge. 
 

Just because I refuse to sit wallowing in my own shit, feeling sorry for myself doesn’t mean I’m naive or behind the door. I say it as I see it. I don’t try to solve problems that I have no control of but I do try to understand.

In fact, I stated clearly earlier in the season that I thought we’d benefit from a change of direction. I still feel this way. I just don’t feel the need to regurgitate it every three hours on BRFCs like some pre pubertal child. 

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Just don’t keep changing your mind then.

If the Summer is huge (like January was to any play-off ambitions) then it is still huge even after the club don’t capitalise. Which means it’s a failure.

You may not want to wallow in your own shit, as you so eloquently put it, but don’t sprinkle sugar on it and try to tell us it’s chocolate cake. You’re fooling nobody.

If you want people to get real then at least keep it real yourself.

[Blue blood]

  On 01/02/2020 at 10:17, Stuart said:

That my friend, is the definition of damning with feint praise.

Not losing three players that we are now utterly dependent on, Lenihan has form for long term spells on the sideline and Travis is an injury waiting to happen at the moment.

The reliance on the youth players, who were previously dismissed as a waste of money when he could be spending it on the first team (oh the irony!), is the fall back rather than any kind of plan. I just hope that some of these players do take their chance and when they do, they aren’t dumped as soon as Mowbray’s favourites are fit again.

Not strengthening is one thing but when you lose you talisman first a year (!) and still don’t do anything about it with the time available then you know it has been a bad month. If we are still relying on Dack by the time he comes back - hopefully early next season then that’s an even bigger failure from Mowbray.

Fourth centre back? Mulgrew? Who’s third? Williams? Such a depressing position. First choice (Mowbray’s second) is only a loan.

But still, we have won two games and are “in reach” of the play-offs. Heard it all before. The same people saying we are “in reach” are the same people saying 12th would be a good finish. We are a yo-yo club: not between divisions but between the top and bottom half of the Championship.

And £150m+ in debt.

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Oh I wouldn't disagree with any of that! A terrible window. 

That said I know it can always get worse for us - think of Coyle's first window where he let go of both our good championship level centre backs and got a paltry £250,000 to replace them with. Think of the number of dodge deals we have had from Portuguese no marks to Stokes and Goodwiilie. Think of Bowyer getting no money under ffp. So yeah it was appalling and yet I fear it could have been even worse. 

The centre back situation is an interesting one. Perhaps Mulgrew is 3rd choice or maybe it's Williams. Everyone said there was no issue with letting Mulgrew go, but that he needed replacing or we would be worse off: something better than nothing. (I agree.) We are now back to something rather than nothing albeit the most underwhelming something we could ever have. So yeah, a marginal improvement although it shows how low the bar really is that that's an improvement. 

As for your other points I was thinking mostly of JRC who I think could come good and needs the lack of options to get through. Others, less likely to I admit, but feel we may have a gem in JRC. 

As for the playoff stuff am right there with you. There's so much wrong with X off the playoffs. 1) it means you aren't where you want to be. 2) it assumes we will push forward rather than back which is problematic as our winless runs and past history indicate we would be just as likely to drop further away and 3) it assumes all the other teams around us do badly, especially the ones in and around the playoffs. Relying on that many clubs to do badly is clutching at straws. 

Another factor I didn't mention, nor yourself, is the huge summer rebuild needed. It would have been nice to start on that. 

So yeah don't think things are rosey at all and was disappointed with the window. But as I said it could have been worse through loss of a key player and hopefully gives us another Travis like youngster development in JRC. 

 

[Ewood Ace]

  On 01/02/2020 at 09:08, Paul Mani said:

The summer is BIG, HUGE!

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You said last summer was huge and it turned out to be a damp squid. How many more huge windows do we give Mowbray before it's decided that he's not up to it?

[stinny1]

I was very gullible at frist with TM and Venkys  i thought  they would push the boat out this season and have a real go . I thought that if we where near the play offs they would just have a go  but  the Transfer window has come and gone and nothing happened . And i come too the opinion  that TM and Venkys  don't  want too move the club forward and the lack of ambition  is there for all too see . I will not be renewing  my season ticket next season because  i don't  want another  season of TM lies and Bennett , Bell ,Williams, Smallwood  stopping  the youngest  from coming through .   There so much work to do next season and i don't  think TM can get it done a Keeper , Left back and right back two Center halfs a Right winger a Stricker just too stand still . Travis , Dack, Nyambe will be sold in the summer  unfortunately and the money will just disappear  very sad

[Roverthechimp]

Not dissappointed because i didn't expect any signings.

Only positive for me is that we have lost 4 players to injury but still have a competitive team (if inconsistent but nothing new there)

Negatives/worries är further injuries/suspensions and that brereton didn't go out on loan.

Wasn't expecting promotion this season tbh hence low expectations for this window. Would like to see us sign a GK and CH before preseason as that is what scares me most before next season

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

At the risk of repeating myself - we'll never thrive under the Chicken Chokers, I would have thought that was obvious.  How can you run any organisation successfully when the owners couldn't care less about it's future ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 01/02/2020 at 11:58, OnePhilT said:

I'm not sure how you think that giving Mowbray circa £15m to spend over the last couple of seasons means that the owners couldn't care less about its future.

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It's just like any abusive relationship. It was the bunch of flowers after last nights black eye. Do you think they are remotely interested in Blackburn Rovers ? I don't.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

  On 01/02/2020 at 10:15, Paul Mani said:

Mate, I’m about as die hard as it gets. But honestly, I’d just get them in. How much worse can Thompson be than Bell, worst case scenario? JRC straight into the first team and Bucko, Chapman and Davenport on the bench. 

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Can't argue with that. The frustration is those we know aren't  good enough - Bell, Bennett, Williams, Gallagher & Brereton (out wide) leutweiler etc keep taking first team positions or keeping the young guns off the bench.  I expect Mulgew will also be back on the bench when fit and it may be time to phase out Graham.   Needs a ruthless shift IMO but dont think TM has it in him.

I'd have no complaints blooding 5 or 6 of the younger lads consistently between now and the end of the season.   Even if we drop down the league, it will be a worthwhile thing to do.  I think most of the fanbase would get behind that.   As you say, we may reap the benefits in summer or at least cross off a couple of youth names. 

Plodding along with the above mentioned players as a strategy will get us nowhere.

 

[47er]

  On 01/02/2020 at 09:35, Mashed Potatoes said:

If the manager played young players who proved not to be ready the mob on here would pounce on him in a state of fury.

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Dream on mate! ITS THE MOB WHO THINK HE'S A GOOD MANAGER WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT!

[matt83]

I’ve decided on a career change. I’m going to become rovers head of recruitment. My brief is to target players who aren’t available, don’t want to come and we couldn’t afford.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 01/02/2020 at 12:22, matt83 said:

I’ve decided on a career change. I’m going to become rovers head of recruitment. My brief is to target players who aren’t available, don’t want to come and we couldn’t afford.

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That's Monday 8-30am whilst 9-00am. What are you going to do for the rest of the week ?

[47er]

  On 01/02/2020 at 09:55, Mashed Potatoes said:

Actually my suggestion is the same as yours - but it is important that fans show patience with young players because there are going to days when it doesn't happen for them. Do you see some of the individuals who post on here showing patience ? I don't. If they don't get success right this minute they want the manager and everyone else OUT !!!

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We have been in this crap division for 10 years (is it?). Your talk of right this minute is so OTT.

 

  On 01/02/2020 at 10:40, Paul Mani said:

like some pre pubertal child. 

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Looking in the mirror there I think. 

[47er]

  On 01/02/2020 at 11:58, OnePhilT said:

I'm not sure how you think that giving Mowbray circa £15m to spend over the last couple of seasons means that the owners couldn't care less about its future.

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I can!

[Angry_Pirate]

Not making signings is pathetic.

Not shipping/loaning out ANY of Smallwood, Samuel, Mulgrew, Brereton, Chapman, Buckley, is inexcusable incompetence. 

Mowbray, Waggo, Venus (Lowe and Benson - just because) out.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 01/02/2020 at 12:27, 47er said:

We have been in this crap division for 10 years (is it?). Your talk of right this minute is so OTT.

 

Looking in the mirror there I think. 

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It's more than just being in this "crap division " for me matey. It's the whole mess, the debt, the powerlessness, the alienation from the fans of the what used to be what I felt was my club, the lots of really dull football, the "doublespeak " from those supposedly in charge. It's the whole nine yards. You and I have seen us in this " crap division " before for decades but we never lost the faith, Rovers were our team even when we couldn't pay the electric bill. I could always paint a rosy picture of our future then even if it was pretty unrealistic, under the Chokers I can't.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

  On 01/02/2020 at 12:42, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's more than just being in this "crap division " for me matey. It's the whole mess, the debt, the powerlessness, the alienation from the fans of the what used to be what I felt was my club, the lots of really dull football, the "doublespeak " from those supposedly in charge. It's the whole nine yards. You and I have seen us in this " crap division " before for decades but we never lost the faith, Rovers were our team even when we couldn't pay the electric bill. I could always paint a rosy picture of our future then even if it was pretty unrealistic, under the Chokers I can't.

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My thoughts entirely.

[Stonesrick]

  On 01/02/2020 at 12:42, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's more than just being in this "crap division " for me matey. It's the whole mess, the debt, the powerlessness, the alienation from the fans of the what used to be what I felt was my club, the lots of really dull football, the "doublespeak " from those supposedly in charge. It's the whole nine yards. You and I have seen us in this " crap division " before for decades but we never lost the faith, Rovers were our team even when we couldn't pay the electric bill. I could always paint a rosy picture of our future then even if it was pretty unrealistic, under the Chokers I can't.

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Post of the year thus far. Just about sums up everything about the once great Blackburn Rovers Football Club and where we are today. An institution that has lost its soul and I don’t know if and when we will ever get it back. Certainly not under this lot.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

  On 01/02/2020 at 12:59, Stonesrick said:

Post of the year thus far. Just about sums up everything about the once great Blackburn Rovers Football Club and where we are today. An institution that has lost its soul and I don’t know if and when we will ever get it back. Certainly not under this lot.

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Thanks. What hurts most is the " Brexitisation " of our fan base. We seemed to be bitterly divided in our views regarding the owners, the manager etc to a much greater extent. than ever we were in the past. Maybe we can thank the internet and social media for some of that. As the old saying goes " A house divided against itself cannot stand ".

[Amo]

  On 01/02/2020 at 12:41, Angry_Pirate said:

Not making signings is pathetic.

Not shipping/loaning out ANY of Smallwood, Samuel, Mulgrew, Brereton, Chapman, Buckley, is inexcusable incompetence. 

Mowbray, Waggo, Venus (Lowe and Benson - just because) out.

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They’ll be on cushy contracts and the managerial team is too nice/lazy/incompetent to negotiate their exit. 

[Paul Mani]

  On 01/02/2020 at 11:09, Ewood Ace said:

You said last summer was huge and it turned out to be a damp squid. How many more huge windows do we give Mowbray before it's decided that he's not up to it?

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Ffs when are you and @Stuart going to realise that none of us are really that important. Neither are our opinions.
 

Last summer was huge. I think he got it right with Downing, Tosin and Cunningham. Wrong with Johnson and I’m holding my judgement on SG. So I think the summer business was pretty good overall. Holtby was bloody excellent business.

This summer has taken on more importance with the out of contract players and the ffp position.

But I don’t understand what you expect us to do if we have a terrible summer in the transfer market. Do you want me to scream and shout from the rooftops? Cry myself to sleep? Post the same boring drivel about “£12m flops” “Mowbray out” and “Venkys scum”?. It’s just not how I’m built. Once the position is set then all I can do is try to understand it and carry on supporting my team. If I’m unhappy with this or that then I’ll say so. But I won’t dwell on this game that I can’t change.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Paul Mani

[m1st]

  On 31/01/2020 at 19:00, stinny1 said:

The lack of ambition  pee's me off,  TM  your taking our club nowhere its like the 70s and 80s allover again . And i'm starting too loses the faith and i don't  think i will be renewing  my season ticket next season and my lads feel the same 45 years and its come to this its a shambles

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Apologies; I'm coming late to this thread.  Yesterday evening was a very emotional time, what with Rovers not buying anybody and Brexit celebrations.

Totally agree with stinny's opinion here. As I get older, the public transport journey from Heywood - Ewood gets more arduous and getting home at 7.15 after watching a Mowbray selection of misfits - no disrespect to the individuals; it's the manager's bizarre positioning of them - is getting wearying.

On the assumption that we remain in the Championship, I could cope with next season if I thought we had a new, young progressive manager who put round pegs in round holes and didn't mislead the fans. For me, once a Mowbray aficionado,  "Defenders are coming" will forever be his epitaph.