January transfer window 2020

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Its frustrating that the likes of Smallwood and Samuel are picking up a decent wage whilst doing nothing, but I don't blame them for wanting to see out there contracts for the sake of 6 months, these are probably the best deals either of them will have in there career.

I have to say though, as things stand in the summer we'll need to do a hell of lot of work just to stand still in this league.

For me this is where the club has to take the bull by the horns and make them an offer of contract termination. If the remainder of Smallwoods contract is worth say £250k make an offer of £200k to terminate. Smallwood can then find a new club at the wages he is really worth. The two combined would more than compensate him. I would be looking at most of the players who are out of contract in the summer who clearly bring no value to the club and make similar offers.

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 minutes ago, arbitro said:

For me this is where the club has to take the bull by the horns and make them an offer of contract termination. If the remainder of Smallwoods contract is worth say £250k make an offer of £200k to terminate. Smallwood can then find a new club at the wages he is really worth. The two combined would more than compensate him. I would be looking at most of the players who are out of contract in the summer who clearly bring no value to the club and make similar offers.

Ya,but it's worth waiting til the window closes to see if we can get a better deal. Mutual termination only saves peanuts. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

For the purposes of this discussion, Dack is an unmitigated success having been bought for a relatively low fee and now worth considerably more. Obviously the injury may dictate how the future lies but I won’t lay that at Mowbray’s door.

Not disputing that. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

This guy off to Leeds apparently. Could be a game changer 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Kévin_Augustin

Goal stats are not that great at senior level - though obviously he was prolific at youth level. 

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Its easy to say when its not you potentially losing 10s of thousands just to play potentially regular football for 5 months. Rather than rushing to move now, they can take their time in the summer as a free agent with more options. We should never have extended Smallwoods contract, it was always a premature decision.

Dont think anythings gonna happen chaddy.

its very easy to say to post them when you aren't the player playing under 23's football and training. 

Smallwood has surely know for months now that he wont be playing 1st team football at this club. Look at Ben Marshall who is playing 10th division football. Why hasn't a league 1 or 2 club sign him? If I was a manager of a team in league 1 I would be very wary of signing either player if they are more bother about money than playing football and enjoying playing proper football again. 

We see the market put up after this weekend games as it always does in the transfer window. Every window is the same. Most of the window is slow and dull and then the last week of the transfer window is busy and chaos. 

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

is that non-negotiable on Dacks side?

Besides I am more worried that we get the same player back after injury. Not renowned for staying in the best of shape either, so a year off and the temptations that come with it. 

Its a club option so its down to the club not the player to decide. 

 

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,but it's worth waiting til the window closes to see if we can get a better deal. Mutual termination only saves peanuts. 

if we terminated their contracts after the window closes they cannot signed for another club until the summer

[OldEwoodBlue]

We have gone from no transfers to no transfer rumours.

 

[Silas]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

What legacy does mowbray have to protect? One significant promotion?

Legacy was maybe a bit strong. But almost 2 decades as a manager, years served at top level in the Prem, managed one of biggest clubs in UK at Celtic. Not to be sniffed at.

1 hour ago, 47er said:

That's a lot of "ifs"!

Maybe, but what we're doing with him at the moment is a load of "butts"!

[tomphil]

15 hours ago, Pedro said:

Some games I actually really like Walton. He usually claims crosses very well (I know not the case at Preston). Other games/moments he worries me also but there is certainly potential there and he'll get better. For the right price, I'd be open to him staying as short-term 2nd choice behind an older head - with a view to becoming number 1.

I think if they sign him it'll be as no 1 i'm not sure i'd want a similar keeper anyway as that would mean rotating keepers !!!

 Agree he's settled in a bit now but is he worth paying a fee for ?

Edited January 25, 2020 by tomphil

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

For me this is where the club has to take the bull by the horns and make them an offer of contract termination. If the remainder of Smallwoods contract is worth say £250k make an offer of £200k to terminate. Smallwood can then find a new club at the wages he is really worth. The two combined would more than compensate him. I would be looking at most of the players who are out of contract in the summer who clearly bring no value to the club and make similar offers.

It's strange how everyone there seems happy for him to sit it out it must be very lucrative to him to do so.  Hope they don't end up in a similar situation with Mulgrew.

The players deserved some reward for the promotion season but it really looks like they went over the top with these 2. 

[DE.]

Mowbray will probably want to keep Smallwood around for emergencies, especially with Evans out and Johnson's fitness and commitment questionable. Bennett and Tosin could play CM but Bennett is often needed for RB cover due to Nyambe's own fitness issues (although personally I'd rather play JRC there) and we need Tosin at CB due to the lack of decent cover there, too. I suppose theoretically Mulgrew could play DM in an emergency as well, but he has his own fitness problems and with his legs gone I'm not convinced he'd be able to adequetely protect the defence if put in that position. 

[tomphil]

But why keep those wages on the books if you can shift them and put the cash to better use ?

These things are the difference between trying to move forwards and standing still.

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

But why keep those wages on the books if you can shift them and put the cash to better use ?

These things are the difference between trying to move forwards and standing still.

I don't think Smallwood's wage being on the books is that much of an issue as he can't be earning much more than 4 or 5k a week. Mulgrew meanwhile is probably like having 4 Smallwoods on the wage bill with the same impact (nothing) so for me that would be a far bigger concern. 

Also far from convinced TM would put any wages to better use. Would probably still end up with nobody coming in, just like when Paul Downing left last January.

Edited January 25, 2020 by DE.

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

I don't think Smallwood's wage being on the books is that much of an issue as he can't be earning much more than 4 or 5k a week. Mulgrew meanwhile is probably like having 4 Smallwoods on the wage bill with the same impact (nothing) so for me that would be a far bigger concern. 

Also far from convinced TM would put any wages to better use. Would probably still end up with nobody coming in, just like when Paul Downing left last January.

I would imagine there could be extras like loyalty bonuses which would bump the figures up considerably.

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I would imagine there could be extras like loyalty bonuses which would bump the figures up considerably.

Perhaps, but I don't think Smallwood being here is a massive barrier to deals being done this month. With only another six months to run he'll surely be gone in the summer regardless. I'm far more annoyed by Mulgrew coming back and taking up a much larger slice of the wage bill with him likely to have minimal impact - and his contract runs until summer 2021 ffs. I genuinely think even if Smallwood had gone on Jan 1 we'd still be in the same position now in regards to incomings. I don't think it makes any difference. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by DE.

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, DE. said:

I don't think Smallwood's wage being on the books is that much of an issue as he can't be earning much more than 4 or 5k a week. Mulgrew meanwhile is probably like having 4 Smallwoods on the wage bill with the same impact (nothing) so for me that would be a far bigger concern. 

Also far from convinced TM would put any wages to better use. Would probably still end up with nobody coming in, just like when Paul Downing left last January.

No way is he on the wages of a league 1 or 2 player he'll be on Championship wages. The fact he's never had a sniff after being a favourite might suggest he has a very good appearance bonus or something built in.

Also no takers for him despite his pedigree in the leagues below point to him being on good wages here.

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

Perhaps, but I don't think Smallwood being here is a massive barrier to deals being done this month. With only another six months to run he'll surely be gone in the summer regardless. I'm far more annoyed by Mulgrew coming back and taking up a much larger slice of the wage bill with him likely to have minimal impact - and his contract runs until summer 2021 ffs. I genuinely think even if Smallwood had gone on Jan 1 we'd still be in the same position now in regards to incomings. I don't think it makes any difference. 

I was using Smallwood as an example but collectively all the deadwood who are out of contract will be costing us a lot of money between now and the end of June. Clearly Mulgrew (with 18 months left) would be the hardest to get rid of simply because of the numbers involved.

[DE.]

Just now, tomphil said:

No way is he on the wages of a league 1 or 2 player he'll be on Championship wages. The fact he's never had a sniff after being a favourite might suggest he has a very good appearance bonus or something built in.

Also no takers for him despite his pedigree in the leagues below point to him being on good wages here.

As he's not even in the match day squad and probably won't play for us again his appearance bonus won't count for much tbf. 

Even if Smallwood is on upwards of 7-8k that's still a lot for a League 1 club, especially considering sign on/agent fees. I imagine most of them will be waiting until the summer when Smallwood is out of contract and his demands may be a lot lower. This contract will probably be the best he'll get for the rest of his career, so I imagine he'd want more to move now than he will in the summer. 

[DE.]

Just now, arbitro said:

I was using Smallwood as an example but collectively all the deadwood who are out of contract will be costing us a lot of money between now and the end of June. Clearly Mulgrew (with 18 months left) would be the hardest to get rid of simply because of the numbers involved.

Absolutely, certainly not arguing the case for Smallwood being here, I just think there are bigger problems - the manager's transfer and contract renewal policy being one of them. 

[tomphil]

Just now, DE. said:

As he's not even in the match day squad and probably won't play for us again his appearance bonus won't count for much tbf. 

Even if Smallwood is on upwards of 7-8k that's still a lot for a League 1 club, especially considering sign on/agent fees. I imagine most of them will be waiting until the summer when Smallwood is out of contract and his demands may be a lot lower. This contract will probably be the best he'll get for the rest of his career, so I imagine he'd want more to move now than he will in the summer. 

I agree but that's the whole point of why he should be shown the door but TM is far too happy to let things like this lie.  Whichever way you dress it up carrying the likes of him holds the club back now in the transfer market.

Not ruthless enough down there buy a long way, that doesn't mean they have to be nasty but the good of the first team comes first. Carrying deadwood or players for sentimental reasons doesn't gain you anything on the FFP balance sheet.

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

Absolutely, certainly not arguing the case for Smallwood being here, I just think there are bigger problems - the manager's transfer and contract renewal policy being one of them. 

Mowbray cited 'a business decision' for sending Cunningham back to Cardiff which I fully understand but where was the 'business decisions' when he was giving out silly contracts disproportionate to players abilty? The best for Rovers would be to try and clear the decks now in my view and that is where the focus of Waggott and Mowbray should be.

[DE.]

Just now, tomphil said:

I agree but that's the whole point of why he should be shown the door but TM is far too happy to let things like this lie.  Whichever way you dress it up carrying the likes of him holds the club back now in the transfer market.

Not ruthless enough down there buy a long way, that doesn't mean they have to be nasty but the good of the first team comes first. Carrying deadwood or players for sentimental reasons doesn't gain you anything on the FFP balance sheet.

I agree that it isn't a good situation, and it's not the first time we've been in this position over the years. We lost money on almost every signing in the Kean era, and although we did a lot better during Bowyer's tenure we still gave certain players contracts which made them essentially impossible to move on, even on a free. I dread to think the amount we've wasted either terminating contracts of players we couldn't sell or letting contracts of useless players run down because nobody else was willing to pay what we were. I thought that kind of mismanagement might be behind us after the dual-accountancy firm audit a few years ago... but here we are again. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

12 hours ago, Pedro said:

How many permanent TM signings have actually come good and had an impact that has anywhere near matched their contract?

 

Apologies if I have missed anyone but I think they are largely absolutely pitiful dealings and MILLIONS have been  wasted in fees and wages.  I wouldn't trust him with another penny and (alongside the poor tactics and selections) just don't get the love in with him.

 

 

 

Some very harsh judgements there for me, plenty of low-risk signings there which have either contributed whilst they were here or still very much have the potential to. Judging Nuttall as not worth his contract when we signed him on a free for the youth team, scored a few goals for us then sold on a profit seems harsh. Some other small investments who were fine, even if they weren't in the plans for the future, like Rodwell or P. Downing.

We didn't worry about wasting money on fees and wages for Maceo Rigters, Bruno Berner and Johan Vogel when the profits from Santa-Cruz and Bentley pay for them fifty times over. I don't see why we should worry about the money 'wasted' on the likes of Hart, Lyons, Caddis, P. Downing or Rodwelll when you think about how much the value has increased for Dack, Armstrong and Rothwell.

Can't disagree that the Brereton transfer is looking more and more like it might be an expensive error, but there's no doubting that the squad's value has increased enormously since TM took over, and by more than the outlay we've spent on transfer fees. Dack might be doing a bit of the heavy lifting for that, but Armstrong's value will have tripled since we signed him and Rothwell is certainly worth much more than the few hundred grand we paid for him.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Goal stats are not that great at senior level - though obviously he was prolific at youth level. 

Ya, but have you seen him play? Could be lethal at this level. 

[Amo]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, but have you seen him play? Could be lethal at this level. 

Is he the new Ben Brereton?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Amo said:

Is he the new Ben Brereton?

What do you mean? Are you just saying Breretons name out of context in every response?