January transfer window 2020

[Paul Mani]

53 minutes ago, J*B said:

Thats not how FFP works - it’s done in three year cycles. If it was as you say it, you’d get clubs doing literally as you say - one year big fees, if not promoted have a year off. This is part of what FFP is designed to stop, which is why it’s based over 3 years not 12 months. 

There’s three options:

1) Sell a player for a big profit - note the word profit, selling Brereton for 5m does nothing for us in FFP. FFP doesn’t mind you buying big as long as you’re selling bigger.

2) Take another 2.5 seasons working with frees, loans and cheap buys - then go big in season three. This is essentially what we’ve just done - you put 2 years of no significant outgoings against 1 year of higher spending, essentially you spend 3 years worth of budget in one year. 

3) Develop and sell academy players - FFP likes this route a lot, it’s ‘pure’ profit. 

The wording as I have read it is that the period is ‘rolling’ and therefore based on the current and previous two years. Which means the picture will change every year. Makes much more sense also.

Im not sure we have waited for one year of expenditure as a strategic plan but more of build up of expectations over that period. The summer should free up some money from the contracts expiring. (A third of the current budget). Of course, we’ll need to replace some of the key positions but I’d prefer the squad fillers to be u23’s from now on.

Interesting about the ‘profits’ in signings too. Thanks for the info ??

[darrenrover]

I think Billy Sharp would be a great signing if Danny Graham is finished and moved off the payroll. I'm guessing that's unlikely to happen.

Where Mowbray has been extremely negligent, is extending contracts to those that were unlikely to feature in the first team long term. The squad places should be taken by developing under 23s and not by experienced players who are deemed to be generally past it.

It will be an absolute travesty if the likes of Mols, Butterworth, Lyons etc are moved on to develop their careers elsewhere, whilst Mulgrew, Smallwood etc sit on their arses and their contracts.

 

[Craigman]

EXCLUSIVE: Blackburn eye move as Sheff Wed tell striker he can leave

Date published: Sunday 26th January 2020 4:12

Sheffield Wednesday have told Jordan Rhodes that he can leave the club for ‘free’ as long as his wages are met, we can reveal.

And former club Blackburn Rovers are considering a move for the Owls frontman.

Rhodes is a legendary figure at Ewood Park from his four-year spell, which ended in 2016 and saw him score 85 goals in 169 games.

The 29-year-old spent last season on loan at Norwich, but they did not sign him on a permanent deal and he returned to Hillsborough.

However, he has been limited to just four starts this season and has been told he is surplus to requirements.

 

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/exclusive-blackburn-eyeing-move-as-sheff-wed-tell-jordan-rhodes-he-can-leave

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Craigman said:

EXCLUSIVE: Blackburn eye move as Sheff Wed tell striker he can leave

Date published: Sunday 26th January 2020 4:12

Sheffield Wednesday have told Jordan Rhodes that he can leave the club for ‘free’ as long as his wages are met, we can reveal.

And former club Blackburn Rovers are considering a move for the Owls frontman.

Rhodes is a legendary figure at Ewood Park from his four-year spell, which ended in 2016 and saw him score 85 goals in 169 games.

The 29-year-old spent last season on loan at Norwich, but they did not sign him on a permanent deal and he returned to Hillsborough.

However, he has been limited to just four starts this season and has been told he is surplus to requirements.

 

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/exclusive-blackburn-eyeing-move-as-sheff-wed-tell-jordan-rhodes-he-can-leave

Horse shite.

[tomphil]

5 hours ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

I’ve got no problem with the club being circumspect with the finances this window. FFP is a massive consideration and not being able to sell Dack is a huge set back. I assume the fans who expect us to spend millions each window are the same fans who want us to slash ticket prices every week..

When you've thrown 6/7 million down the drain that holds little weight i'm afraid.  Majority of fans want ticket prices slashing to get more fans in the ground not for their own reasons. It's usually the ones who pay whatever looking for something to entice those who won't back in because it makes attending a better experience for everyone when there is a few more in.

Also saying not being able to sell Dack is a huge set back holds even less weight as wouldn't it be a huge set back in itself to lose a fit firing Bradley Dack just to balance the books because of piss poor recruitment ????

[simongarnerisgod]

Sheffield Wednesday have told Jordan Rhodes that he can leave the club for ‘free’ as long as his wages are met, we can reveal.

And former club Blackburn Rovers are considering a move for the Owls frontman.

Rhodes is a legendary figure at Ewood Park from his four-year spell, which ended in 2016 and saw him score 85 goals in 169 games.

The 29-year-old spent last season on loan at Norwich, but they did not sign him on a permanent deal and he returned to Hillsborough.

However, he has been limited to just four starts this season and has been told he is surplus to requirements.

 

if it`s true(which i doubt)it will be a disaster for rhodes,he needs a team that creates chances not one that tries to negate the opposition and plays with most of it`s personel out of position,god alone knows where mowbray would play him,i guess it would`nt be as a striker

[chaddyrovers]

18 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Horse shite.

Exactly. Rovers wont be paying Rhodes's wages at 35k a week. Simple as. Those days are gone at Rovers

27 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

I think Billy Sharp would be a great signing if Danny Graham is finished and moved off the payroll. I'm guessing that's unlikely to happen.

Where Mowbray has been extremely negligent, is extending contracts to those that were unlikely to feature in the first team long term. The squad places should be taken by developing under 23s and not by experienced players who are deemed to be generally past it.

It will be an absolute travesty if the likes of Mols, Butterworth, Lyons etc are moved on to develop their careers elsewhere, whilst Mulgrew, Smallwood etc sit on their arses and their contracts.

 

Sharpe already said he wont move away from Sheff Utd. 

[tomphil]

Totally pointless signing Rhodes at this point paying a fortune in wages for a midtable finish.  Different story if they could get his money down to a more realistic level on a free for a few years contract with the aim of setting up to provide him with ammunition.

Just like before though you still need a good defence and keeper at the other end or it's wasted other than keep you comfortable in midtable. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by tomphil

[J*B]

44 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

The wording as I have read it is that the period is ‘rolling’ and therefore based on the current and previous two years. Which means the picture will change every year. Makes much more sense also.

Im not sure we have waited for one year of expenditure as a strategic plan but more of build up of expectations over that period. The summer should free up some money from the contracts expiring. (A third of the current budget). Of course, we’ll need to replace some of the key positions but I’d prefer the squad fillers to be u23’s from now on.

Interesting about the ‘profits’ in signings too. Thanks for the info ??

Yes that first sentence is exactly right - it’s rolling over a three year period, based on the current year and previous two.

The approach the board have made is actually very clever, and suits a club like ourselves who’s owners are happy to invest. When Waggot talks about the Brentford model they don’t just mean buy cheap sell high as a model, they’re also talking about the FFP approach. What Brentford have been very good at is having the resource available to spend when they see a player that will improve them quickly (Jansson, Raya etc) but also having the right approach to buying players which means should they ever be close to the FFP threshold they can immediately sell players which the system likes - Maupay, Mepham, Konsa. 
 

We tried similar with Brereton and Gallagher being our equivalent to Jansson and Raya - but it hasn’t yet worked out. We have also been really unlucky with injuries. If we had Lenihan, Cunningham, Dack plus the strikers we had hoped for we would be top 6 and it would have worked.  

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, J*B said:

Yes that first sentence is exactly right - it’s rolling over a three year period, based on the current year and previous two.

Surely the season in league 1 shouldnt count?

[chaddyrovers]

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Surely the season in league 1 shouldnt count?

You are correct 

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, J*B said:

Yes that first sentence is exactly right - it’s rolling over a three year period, based on the current year and previous two.

The approach the board have made is actually very clever, and suits a club like ourselves who’s owners are happy to invest. When Waggot talks about the Brentford model they don’t just mean buy cheap sell high as a model, they’re also talking about the FFP approach. What Brentford have been very good at is having the resource available to spend when they see a player that will improve them quickly (Jansson, Raya etc) but also having the right approach to buying players which means should they ever be close to the FFP threshold they can immediately sell players which the system likes - Maupay, Mepham, Konsa. 
 

We tried similar with Brereton and Gallagher being our equivalent to Jansson and Raya - but it hasn’t yet worked out. We have also been really unlucky with injuries. If we had Lenihan, Cunningham, Dack plus the strikers we had hoped for we would be top 6 and it would have worked.  

To say we "would" have been is a huge logic leap. Both Dack and Lenihan have played in 22 of 28 games and we have not once been in the top 6. 

[J*B]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Surely the season in league 1 shouldnt count?

Yep league 1 doesn’t count.
 

The Dack injury is massive - if we had him available to sell in Summer, or January (much to Mani’s disappointment!) we would be in a position where despite being close to FFP we can spend, as we had an asset worth millions to FFP ready to be cashed in at any point. We could have got 20m for Dack at basically any point we wanted. 
If Dack didn’t get injured we would be spending THIS window. We haven’t bothered scouting players between 3-5 million for no reason. We can afford to buy them if we have a Dack sale in our back pockets. We can’t if we don’t. 
I can’t express just how much of an asset having a player signed for 750K and sold for 20M is in FFP terms. It’s basically a PlayStation cheat code and gives you a license to go from loses of about 38m over three seasons to just under 60m over three seasons. 

[J*B]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

To say we "would" have been is a huge logic leap. Both Dack and Lenihan have played in 22 of 28 games and we have not once been in the top 6. 

We’ve been very close though at points. They hoped Brereton and Gallagher would be scoring Rhodes and Gestede amounts of goals - if we had that sort of firepower on top of being close, we would have been top 6. 
 

The striker signings haven’t worked - yet - and we’ve been unlucky with injuries. That’s the reality. 

[tomphil]

How could they possibly have hoped for that with those two when they've no goalscoring pedigree between them and both get played out of position. One of them only used bit part anyway.

What a load of tosh as is expecting a 20 million quid cheque for Dack as and when they chose to accept it.

Unbelievable what some people will swallow it's now backside covering to the 8th degree they've ballsed up with shocking recruitment and they know it.  The injury to the best potential 10 million plus asset hasn't helped but it really isn't the root cause.

Gally & Brereton scoring Rhodes & gestede levells of goals.......... As if for gods sake !

Edited January 26, 2020 by tomphil

[J*B]

Just now, tomphil said:

How could they possibly have hoped for that with those two when they've no goalscoring pedigree between them and both get played out of position. One of them only used bit part anyway.

What a load of tosh as is expecting a 20 million quid check for Dack as and when they chose to accept it.

Unbelievable what some people will swallow it's now backside covering to the 8th degree they've ballsed up with shocking recruitment and they know it.  The injury to the best potential 10 million plus asset hasn't helped but it really isn't the root cause.

Gally & Brereton scoring Rhodes & gestede levells of goals.......... As if for gods sake !

Rhodes had scored 1 Championship goal when we signed him. Gestede was playing in Cardiff’s reserves. It’s not illogical to think that Brereton - who had scored a few for Forest and had brilliant ‘scouting’ reviews and Gallagher who had already been successful for us would score a fair amount of goals. 

[tomphil]

Just now, J*B said:

Rhodes had scored 1 Championship goal when we signed him. Gestede was playing in Cardiff’s reserves. It’s not illogical to think that Brereton - who had scored a few for Forest and had brilliant ‘scouting’ reviews and Gallagher who had already been successful for us would score a fair amount of goals. 

It's a humungous punt RHodes cost money but had a great scoring pedigree, Rudy Gestede was a 6'4" out and out target man that was a punt for a few hundred grand.

Incomparable really, What happened to the Brereton is one for the future there's no rush guff if they now say they expected him to hit the ground running ?

It's bull at worst mate or very very silly recruitment at best.

[J*B]

Just now, tomphil said:

It's a humungous punt RHodes cost money but had a great scoring pedigree, Rudy Gestede was a 6'4" out and out target man that was a punt for a few hundred grand.

Incomparable really, What happened to the Brereton is one for the future there's no rush guff if they now say they expected him to hit the ground running ?

It's bull at worst mate or very very silly recruitment at best.

It’s terrible recruitment. They’ve not spent 7m on him for no reason. They thought he had everything and was good value. 

[chaddyrovers]

@J*B. thanks for the points you have made regarding FFP and you made some good points about signings and being top 6. 

[chaddyrovers]

24 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

To say we "would" have been is a huge logic leap. Both Dack and Lenihan have played in 22 of 28 games and we have not once been in the top 6. 

If Gallagher had scored the goals he did before here and Brereton carry on the performances he had at Forest. Plus Lenihan and Cunningham been fit all season it would have helped..

Still feel we can get top 6 even now. Keep Armstrong, Adarabioyo and Lenihan fit I dont think we be far away

[roversfan99]

25 minutes ago, J*B said:

We’ve been very close though at points. They hoped Brereton and Gallagher would be scoring Rhodes and Gestede amounts of goals - if we had that sort of firepower on top of being close, we would have been top 6. 
 

The striker signings haven’t worked - yet - and we’ve been unlucky with injuries. That’s the reality. 

There was absolutely no logic to expect them 2 strikers with their respective ability and records to even come close to scoring goals with that level of consistency. To have a 40 goal strikeforce is incredibly difficult to get though, especially with 12m, a decent amount of money but not to afford a striker with a record of scoring that amount of goals, fee or wages, for example Dwight Gayle. I understand that Gestede was an unexpected gem but Rhodes had scored 36 goals in League 1 the year before. You say Gallagher was successful, he was average and thats the best hes ever been. And Brereton couldnt make the Forest bench.

The Cunningham injury was a certain blow but Dack and of course Evans have only just got injured, and Lenihan has only missed 6 games. Even up until now, we have been at best a couple of results away, and at worst deep in the bottom half, with the injured players being fit. Neither our attack nor our defence is top 6 quality do even if you add one of sufficient quality the other would let us down.

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If Gallagher had scored the goals he did before here and Brereton carry on the performances he had at Forest. Plus Lenihan and Cunningham been fit all season it would have helped..

Still feel we can get top 6 even now. Keep Armstrong, Adarabioyo and Lenihan fit I dont think we be far away

Lenihan has missed 6 games, Cunningham was a blow I will concede. Gallagher was scoring goals at a (career best) 1 in 4 ratio and Brereton was performing at a level that had seen him drop out of the Forest matchday squad.

Id love you to be right on that but I dont see any chance.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Lenihan has missed 6 games, Cunningham was a blow I will concede. Gallagher was scoring goals at a (career best) 1 in 4 ratio and Brereton was performing at a level that had seen him drop out of the Forest matchday squad.

Id love you to be right on that but I dont see any chance.

Of those 6 games Lenihan has missed we have lost 4 games, draw 1 and won 1. 

As I keep telling you I think Gallagher will score goals if we create chances for him. And I told you before there is a player in him. 

Brereton was performing when Warburton was manager there. 

I know you dont. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

I think Billy Sharp would be a great signing if Danny Graham is finished and moved off the payroll. I'm guessing that's unlikely to happen.

Where Mowbray has been extremely negligent, is extending contracts to those that were unlikely to feature in the first team long term. The squad places should be taken by developing under 23s and not by experienced players who are deemed to be generally past it.

It will be an absolute travesty if the likes of Mols, Butterworth, Lyons etc are moved on to develop their careers elsewhere, whilst Mulgrew, Smallwood etc sit on their arses and their contracts.

 

Graham is still our best striker by a comfortable distance.

I've no idea why fans are trying to rush him out the door.