January transfer window 2020

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think the threat of FFP sanctions are being over stated on here and now used as gospel. I wouldn't say we are under any immanent threat. No doubt our recruitment needs to get better and not signing players early in windows is annoying, but we certainly aren't unique in that regard. For all the negativity and criticism of his transfers, both Downing and Tosin have improved us this season. Of course those who want to find an angle to criticize say that Tosin is a loan and Downing 35. I have no doubt if both played for PNE, people would be asking why didn't Mowbray sign them. We were unlucky with Cunningham too, another excellent signing. 

Mowbray certainly doesn't get an easy ride on here. I don't see how you can claim that he does. 

 

Tosin has been ok and Downing has been very good considering his age and how little was expected of him. But neither have been the sort of stellar successes that will push us to promotion.  Then you have to remember that Tosin will not be our player next season and Downing probably only has this season and next in him so decent signings but by no means exceptional.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Tosin has been ok and Downing has been very good considering his age and how little was expected of him. But neither have been the sort of stellar successes that will push us to promotion.  Then you have to remember that Tosin will not be our player next season and Downing probably only has this season and next in him so decent signings but by no means exceptional.

Tosin has been better than ok and Downing has been a revelation. I think some of us expected him to decent, but then some don't automatically expect the worst with every player we sign! He has performed consistently in a number of positions. 

It doesn't matter. My point was they have improved us this season. If they played for PNE some on here would be asking "why didn't Mowbray sign them?". 

Some need to find an angle to criticize everything Mowbray does now and all of his signings. 

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I'm looking at the facts not what if's. Your mind is made up on everything - the team,managers, individual players - with very little attention to what actually happens.

I am paying attention to everything that is happening.

I'm not taking a temporary screenshot of our League position on a given day and citing it as evidence of major improvement because we're one win ahead of the position we finished in last season!

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I am paying attention to everything that is happening.

I'm not taking a temporary screenshot of our League position on a given day and citing it as evidence of major improvement because we're one win ahead of the position we finished in last season!

Your problem is that if it doesn't suit, you won't even be taking a screenshot after we've played 46 games.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I am paying attention to everything that is happening.

I'm not taking a temporary screenshot of our League position on a given day and citing it as evidence of major improvement because we're one win ahead of the position we finished in last season!

But no doubt you would be referencing our league position if we were near relegation! 

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Tosin has been better than ok and Downing has been a revelation. I think some of us expected him to decent, but then some don't automatically expect the worst with every player we sign! He has performed consistently in a number of positions. 

It doesn't matter. My point was they have improved us this season. If they played for PNE some on here would be asking "why didn't Mowbray sign them?". 

Some need to find an angle to criticize everything Mowbray does now and all of his signings. 

If they played for PNE and PNE had occupied the same League positions as we have week on week this season I don't think our fans or anyone else's for that matter would be in the least bit worried about why we or they hadn't signed them.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

If they played for PNE and PNE had occupied the same League positions as we have week on week this season I don't think our fans or anyone else's for that matter would be in the least bit worried about why we or they hadn't signed them.

So the players performances wouldn't matter? 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, some of you would. Even without having seen him play. 

Anyway, looks like you were proven right in this instance. 

I watched the " Highlights " video over and over. What was obvious from that video for those with eyes that see was he was never going to be more than a peripheral player in the immediate future. It told me there were more things he couldn't do than things he could do. We wanted a " Now " striker not a possible investment years down the line. Football is all about what happens in the next three months not the next three years.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I watched the " Highlights " video over and over. What was obvious from that video for those with eyes that see was he was never going to be more than a peripheral player in the immediate future. It told me there were more things he couldn't do than things he could do. We wanted a " Now " striker not a possible investment years down the line. Football is all about what happens in the next three months not the next three years.

The same way as I wouldn't get too excited about a player from their highlights, I wouldn't write one off either. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The same way as I wouldn't get too excited about a player from their highlights, I wouldn't write one off either. 

I didn't exactly write him off although I had grave doubts about him as a footballer. I just thought he wasn't what we needed at that moment in time, especially when we were betting the ranch on him.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Your problem is that if it doesn't suit, you won't even be taking a screenshot after we've played 46 games.

Well, at the end of the season it's probably fair to use the table as some sort of guide as to whether we're improving or not.

For me anything worse than finishing a point or two outside the play offs has to be construed as failure. I don't see that a marginal improvement on an unsatisfactory 15th position to say 13th or 14th represents satisfactory progress.

The final finishing position remains to be seen. The point I was objecting to was citing something as slender and potentially fleeting as a three point gap as evidence of genuine improvement.

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Well, at the end of the season it's probably fair to use the table as some sort of guide as to whether we're improving or not.

For me anything worse than finishing a point or two outside the play offs has to be construed as failure. I don't see that a marginal improvement on an unsatisfactory 15th position to say 13th or 14th represents satisfactory progress.

The final finishing position remains to be seen. The point I was objecting to was citing something as slender and potentially fleeting as a three point gap as evidence of genuine improvement.

But if we were 3 points off relegation you would use that as evidence of regression, correct? 

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

But if we were 3 points off relegation you would use that as evidence of regression, correct? 

Probably, but if we were only three points off relegation we'd be ten points, not three, behind 15th so the "evidence" would be a lot more compelling!

To further illustrate my point, if we were ten points clear of 15th, currently, that would place us in 4th or 5th and even I would have to concede that was clear evidence of improvement.

[JHRover]

28 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Tosin has been better than ok and Downing has been a revelation. I think some of us expected him to decent, but then some don't automatically expect the worst with every player we sign! He has performed consistently in a number of positions. 

It doesn't matter. My point was they have improved us this season. If they played for PNE some on here would be asking "why didn't Mowbray sign them?". 

Some need to find an angle to criticize everything Mowbray does now and all of his signings. 

And as it stands neither Tosin nor Downing will be here for pre-season. So as well as they might be doing we are going to have a problem.

I always think that you need a settled spine to you team and a settled back 4. Not just for a few games but a few seasons. We've neither. Because we've refused to deal with those positions preferring to take the cheap and easy route by loading up on loans for 12 months.

Recruitment goes beyond filling in gaps, there has to be a medium to long term build.

Come summer time we will have no senior keeper, 1 good enough CB, no good enough LB. Mulgrew cast adrift whilst still on a big contract for another 12 months.

Midfield - Travis is great, Downing great but out of contract, Johnson meh, Evans an unknown with his injury. 

Up top another mess still not got sorted out and Dack in the treatment room.

Doesn't strike me as evolution but revolution. That isnt what Mowbray said would happen.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Probably, but if we were only three points off relegation we'd be ten points, not three, behind 15th so the "evidence" would be a lot more compelling!

To further illustrate my point, if we were ten points clear of 15th, currently, that would place us in 4th or 5th and even I would have to concede that was clear evidence of improvement.

You are moving the goalposts to fit into your viewpoint 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And as it stands neither Tosin nor Downing will be here for pre-season. So as well as they might be doing we are going to have a problem.

I always think that you need a settled spine to you team and a settled back 4. Not just for a few games but a few seasons. We've neither. Because we've refused to deal with those positions preferring to take the cheap and easy route by loading up on loans for 12 months.

Recruitment goes beyond filling in gaps, there has to be a medium to long term build.

Come summer time we will have no senior keeper, 1 good enough CB, no good enough LB. Mulgrew cast adrift whilst still on a big contract for another 12 months.

Midfield - Travis is great, Downing great but out of contract, Johnson meh, Evans an unknown with his injury. 

Up top another mess still not got sorted out and Dack in the treatment room.

Doesn't strike me as evolution but revolution. That isnt what Mowbray said would happen.

 

Even what you say there doesn't sound like that huge a job. A GK, yep, no doubt. Another CB for sure. I suspect Mulgrew will only be here until summer before a mutual termination. 

I would expect Evans to be back next season., Downing likewise. We have a lot of CMs in the under 23s with potential. 

Armstrong is doing well up there, Holtby looks like he could cover for Dack. JRC, Chapman and Butterworth all have great potential. 

We have to give youth a chance at some point. 3-5 quality signings to help them out. All very realistic. Not as bad as some of you are making out at all. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

The reason why Mowbray has to go

Well thats your opinion

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, we aren't signing 9 players between this window and next summer. Sorry to be the one baring the bad news! 

Why? 

We signed 2 now in this window which we could and didnt we sign 7 players this past summer(Gallagher, Downing, Holtby, Walton, Cunningham, Adarabioyo, Johnson)? 

Plus I think Downing will re-sign this season for another season. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You are moving the goalposts to fit into your viewpoint 

No I'm not, you tried to be clever and I've blown your argument out of the water with actual stats so you're now coming back at me with a meaningless retort.

Anyhow.........back to the transfer window!

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well thats your opinion

Why? 

We signed 2 now in this window which we could and didnt we sign 7 players this past summer(Gallagher, Downing, Holtby, Walton, Cunningham, Adarabioyo, Johnson)? 

Plus I think Downing will re-sign this season for another season. 

We need to get 1 or 2 in this widow to have a chance at that I feel 

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

No I'm not, you tried to be clever and I've blown your argument out of the water with actual stats so you're now coming back at me with a meaningless retort.

Anyhow.........back to the transfer window!

You couldn't even see how silly you looked before that statement ? Blown out of the water LOL ??? Others will make their minds up on that. 

Indeed. Hopefully 1-2 in asap 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[JHRover]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

JRC, Chapman and Butterworth all have great potential. 

We have to give youth a chance at some point. 3-5 quality signings to help them out. All very realistic. Not as bad as some of you are making out at all. 

This sounds lovely but simply can't or won't happen.

Mowbray has thrown Buckley in and he looks out of his depth at this stage. Chapman has been mediocre at the very best playing for the u23s. JRC has just made his first appearance - a brief cameo debut in a game we were 4-0 up in - a long way to go before we can set out to rely on him.

As it stands we will need nearly double figures. 2x GK, 2x CB, 1x LB, 1x CM (if Downing goes or Evan's isnt ready), 1x RM and 1 x CF to replace Graham propery - all at the least. 

For a manager and club that struggles to get bodies in the building and has a dodgy record on transfers I'm not particularly relaxed about this.

[RevidgeBlue]

13 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And as it stands neither Tosin nor Downing will be here for pre-season. So as well as they might be doing we are going to have a problem.

I always think that you need a settled spine to you team and a settled back 4. Not just for a few games but a few seasons. We've neither. Because we've refused to deal with those positions preferring to take the cheap and easy route by loading up on loans for 12 months.

Recruitment goes beyond filling in gaps, there has to be a medium to long term build.

Come summer time we will have no senior keeper, 1 good enough CB, no good enough LB. Mulgrew cast adrift whilst still on a big contract for another 12 months.

Midfield - Travis is great, Downing great but out of contract, Johnson meh, Evans an unknown with his injury. 

Up top another mess still not got sorted out and Dack in the treatment room.

Doesn't strike me as evolution but revolution. That isnt what Mowbray said would happen.

 

It's easier to say who IS good enough not who isn't if we're ever to have any hopes of challenging g for promotion.

Lenihan, Nyambe, Travis, Dack, possibly Holtby, possibly Chapman.

Bare minimum, keeper CB  LB and two strikers short.

Probably need a creative midfielder and another wide man as well.

At least seven quality acquisitions and /or youngsters stepping up and making the grade would be needed to turn us into a force imo.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

Agreed, he would be an ideal replacement for Dack. Unfortunately, his value would have skyrocketed this season and last. 

True. Eze could demand a fee closer to £30m than £10m right now which is just scary.
If Dack was two years younger, and currently fit, he'd be the exact same. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It's easier to say who IS good enough not who isn't if we're ever to have any hopes of challenging g for promotion.

Lenihan, Nyambe, Travis, Dack, possibly Holtby, possibly Chapman.

Depends, this time next year I think you can add a couple more to that list... it just depends how fast they develop. Look at Travis, it was only a year ago he'd barely made many first team appearances, and now we can all quite confidently say he's a potential Top 6 player without even thinking about it. 

[Vilesinner]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Tosin has been ok and Downing has been very good considering his age and how little was expected of him. But neither have been the sort of stellar successes that will push us to promotion.  Then you have to remember that Tosin will not be our player next season and Downing probably only has this season and next in him so decent signings but by no means exceptional.

Both have been incredible successes. And Tony needs great credit.