January transfer window 2020

[Vilesinner]

18 minutes ago, JHRover said:

This sounds lovely but simply can't or won't happen.

Mowbray has thrown Buckley in and he looks out of his depth at this stage. Chapman has been mediocre at the very best playing for the u23s. JRC has just made his first appearance - a brief cameo debut in a game we were 4-0 up in - a long way to go before we can set out to rely on him.

As it stands we will need nearly double figures. 2x GK, 2x CB, 1x LB, 1x CM (if Downing goes or Evan's isnt ready), 1x RM and 1 x CF to replace Graham propery - all at the least. 

For a manager and club that struggles to get bodies in the building and has a dodgy record on transfers I'm not particularly relaxed about this.

Nope, JRC was excellent in his cameo in the league cup also. He is quality and I would start him tonight instead of Rothwell. He has more assists than Rothwell already.

[Vilesinner]

21 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It's easier to say who IS good enough not who isn't if we're ever to have any hopes of challenging g for promotion.

Lenihan, Nyambe, Travis, Dack, possibly Holtby, possibly Chapman.

Bare minimum, keeper CB  LB and two strikers short.

Probably need a creative midfielder and another wide man as well.

At least seven quality acquisitions and /or youngsters stepping up and making the grade would be needed to turn us into a force imo.

Also Tosin, Downing, Armstrong, JRC. Possibly Gallagher, Butterworth, Vale, Buckley, Thompson, Hilton, Mols etc.

Personally I don't think Chapman is good enough though, unfortunately.

 

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Tosin has been ok and Downing has been very good considering his age and how little was expected of him. But neither have been the sort of stellar successes that will push us to promotion.  Then you have to remember that Tosin will not be our player next season and Downing probably only has this season and next in him so decent signings but by no means exceptional.

Blackburn have won five of their seven Championship matches at Ewood Park with Tosin Adarabioyo in the starting line-up this season (71%), compared to just one of seven such matches when he has not started (14%).

[Vilesinner]

I think we could do with a Henning Berg type of player to cover CB and right back, an experienced keeper, that winger from Poland, and a striker if BB and Samuel go out on loan. 

So 4 signings at most.

[Bigdoggsteel]

42 minutes ago, JHRover said:

This sounds lovely but simply can't or won't happen.

Mowbray has thrown Buckley in and he looks out of his depth at this stage. Chapman has been mediocre at the very best playing for the u23s. JRC has just made his first appearance - a brief cameo debut in a game we were 4-0 up in - a long way to go before we can set out to rely on him.

As it stands we will need nearly double figures. 2x GK, 2x CB, 1x LB, 1x CM (if Downing goes or Evan's isnt ready), 1x RM and 1 x CF to replace Graham propery - all at the least. 

For a manager and club that struggles to get bodies in the building and has a dodgy record on transfers I'm not particularly relaxed about this.

Why can't Armstrong be Grahams replacement? It seems his good form there is conveniently ignored. 

Buckley will get better hopefully. He has talent. I would say JRC looks even more ready. Why can't we rely on him? Agree about Chapman, unfortunately. Butterworth looks good, possibly right wing? 

We signed 7 players last summer, but you categorize that as us struggling to get bodies in? I don't think we need double figures, about half of that. Work to do, but not the huge rebuilding job some maintain it will be. 

[Guest]

GK - No Long Term Solution

RB - Ryan Nyambe
CB - Darragh Lenihan
CB - No Long Term Solution
LB - No Long Term Solution

RM - No Long Term Solution
CM - Lewis Travis
CM - No Long Term Solution
LM - No Long Term Solution

AM - Bradley Dack (injured until at least December 2020) / Lewis Holtby

ST - Adam Armstrong / Sam Gallagher (hopefully!!)

So a GK, CB, LB, RM, CM & LM. We clearly want to fix the winger situation more urgently than anything else with Jones, Boyle & Jozwiak interest being talked of. We often make the joke that we sign loads of midfielders and we have a plethora of them, but we don't really have long term solutions in that area besides Lewis Travis. 

[JacknOry]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

GK - No Long Term Solution

RB - Ryan Nyambe
CB - Darragh Lenihan
CB - No Long Term Solution
LB - No Long Term Solution

RM - No Long Term Solution
CM - Lewis Travis
CM - No Long Term Solution
LM - No Long Term Solution

AM - Bradley Dack (injured until at least December 2020) / Lewis Holtby

ST - Adam Armstrong / Sam Gallagher (hopefully!!)

So a GK, CB, LB, RM, CM & LM. We clearly want to fix the winger situation more urgently than anything else with Jones, Boyle & Jozwiak interest being talked of. We often make the joke that we sign loads of midfielders and we have a plethora of them, but we don't really have long term solutions in that area besides Lewis Travis. 

Missing perhaps Rothwell there. Not been as good as he was at the end of last season but I still think he has the potential to be a long term solution for one of those positions. We are then hoping that JRC, Buckley, Chapman, Davenport, and perhaps a couple of others will start to feature more from the u23s.

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

With respect what you say there makes no sense and completely contradicts the overall point you're trying to make.

Yes he has (rightly imo) been criticised for being too loyal to the players who were here when he arrived and that is one of the main reasons we now need in the eyes of many to bring in so many players. It's all part of the same thing.

Instead of gradual improvement to the team by attempting to  bring in two or three experienced first teamers every window he seems to have taken the view that the priority was not upsetting the existing players and any recruitment has tended to centre around fringe players, loans, or "ones for the future" who can be put to one side and forgotten about.

Leaving us, imo, in a colossal mess going forward with FFP sanctions also looming.

I don't see how? It's entirely consistent to believe that players bought in the first few transfer windows a) improved/contributed to the team so we could get promoted and consolidate in the championship and b) have now been shown to be not good enough to challenge for promotion to the top flight. This doesn't mean that it was the wrong decision to get them in them in the first place, just that our ambitions have quickly outgrown their usefulness. It wasn't a given that we'd get promoted (look at Sunderland) nor was it a given that we'd find staying up fairly comfortable (look at every other promoted team over the same period). Signing Dack was wonderful, but there aren't too many players who join a L1 side and find gliding up through the leagues so easy. Sometimes you have to shop at the level you're at, and Smallwood, Samuel, Nuttall, Bell, P. Downing and others made significant contributions in progressing where we are now.

TM is now happy to raise our expectations, which I think we all are glad about, so we need significant (not 9 players though!) first team reinforcements. There's no contradiction at all in recognising that setting our sights higher will require improving the squad, and at the same time that our position now of having a young squad sat not far outside the playoffs is a significant improvement on what TM inherited, and for which his recruitment has clearly played a large and positive role.

In terms of the wider transfer strategy, totally fair enough that we have more loans than we would like (even if they play a crucial role in being successful at this level) but elsewhere we needed to improve the depth of the squad (see Holtby), and signing players for the future is exactly the way that a club like ours can overcome FFP. Wouldn't disagree that this approach has been hit and miss so far, but our squad value must be miles higher than it was prior to Mowbray's appointment (even notwithstanding that he's spent a few quid). 

This has turned into a slightly longer and ranting post than it was meant to, and I don't want to make it sound like he hasn't made errors in some of his signings. He obviously has, potentially at least one big one. At the same time when he get's criticised for needing to bring players in so that a team that was in the third tier a season and a half ago can challenge for promotion, it just strikes me as enormously disproportionate and is even in danger of underplaying the progress we've made and continue to make, which is considerable. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

GK - No Long Term Solution

RB - Ryan Nyambe
CB - Darragh Lenihan
CB - No Long Term Solution
LB - No Long Term Solution

RM - No Long Term Solution
CM - Lewis Travis
CM - No Long Term Solution
LM - No Long Term Solution

AM - Bradley Dack (injured until at least December 2020) / Lewis Holtby

ST - Adam Armstrong / Sam Gallagher (hopefully!!)

So a GK, CB, LB, RM, CM & LM. We clearly want to fix the winger situation more urgently than anything else with Jones, Boyle & Jozwiak interest being talked of. We often make the joke that we sign loads of midfielders and we have a plethora of them, but we don't really have long term solutions in that area besides Lewis Travis. 

Rothwell for LM. Davenport (hopefully) for CM. JRC in the mix too possibly for RM

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We need to get 1 or 2 in this widow to have a chance at that I feel 

So you are agreeing with me then. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

So you are agreeing with me then. 

No, I am trying to give you an out for saying we need 9. I think we need around 5. I would prefer quality over quantity. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[joey_big_nose]

9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Rothwell for LM. Davenport (hopefully) for CM. JRC in the mix too possibly for RM

All a bit of a stretch though. I for one am not really convinced at all by Rothwell. Very talented but he's a number 10, not a winger or centre mid.

We're in a bit of a daft place where we have 3 good options for number 10 (Dack, Holtby, Rothwell) but no wide players.

Davenport had really struggled with injuries, JRC essentially untested.

Edited January 28, 2020 by joey_big_nose

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

We're in a bit of a daft place where we have 3 good options for number 10 (Dack, Holtby, Rothwell) but no wide players.

Ironically, we have 2 forwards in DG and SG that probably would benefit from a couple of wide men putting crosses in (Conwayesque).  Again, another example of no planning over the last 3 windows.  The manager needs replacing asap.

[joey_big_nose]

17 minutes ago, JoeH said:

GK - No Long Term Solution

RB - Ryan Nyambe
CB - Darragh Lenihan
CB - No Long Term Solution
LB - No Long Term Solution

RM - No Long Term Solution
CM - Lewis Travis
CM - No Long Term Solution
LM - No Long Term Solution

AM - Bradley Dack (injured until at least December 2020) / Lewis Holtby

ST - Adam Armstrong / Sam Gallagher (hopefully!!)

So a GK, CB, LB, RM, CM & LM. We clearly want to fix the winger situation more urgently than anything else with Jones, Boyle & Jozwiak interest being talked of. We often make the joke that we sign loads of midfielders and we have a plethora of them, but we don't really have long term solutions in that area besides Lewis Travis. 

Good post that. I would say you only really look 2 seasons ahead in football so I would say the other CM berth is covered by Evans and Johnson. Agree everywhere else though. 

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No, I am trying to give you an out for saying we need 9. I think we need around 5. I would prefer quality over quantity. 

We need 2 keepers, right back, 2 centre back and 2 left back. Thats 7 players there. Plus a striker and Winger

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Vilesinner said:

Both have been incredible successes. And Tony needs great credit.

They'v done well so far but are opposite ends of the spectrum and will have cost c 1 possibly 2 million for one season all things considered.

If we end up in the play offs you can say incredible success but as of now they've only actually done what was hoped of them. That's good but will likely be gone again in summer.  Maybe we'll squeeze another year out of Downing but there's still risk at his age so it'd need careful consideration given the wages.

I think the point a few are trying to hammer home is this can't be put down the building for the future. It's merely plugging gaps and maybe that money could've been used for a decent permanent transfer. Example, a large contribution to 1 Bauer type contract for a few years for the price of these 2 stop gaps.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

We need 2 keepers, right back, 2 centre back and 2 left back. Thats 7 players there. Plus a striker and Winger

I disagree, but fair enough. 

[joey_big_nose]

Anyone else think Bells looked pretty good since Tosin and Nyambe have come into the team? I can see him being extended.

Edited January 28, 2020 by joey_big_nose

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, tomphil said:

They'v done well so far but are opposite ends of the spectrum and will have cost c 1 possibly 2 million for one season all things considered.

If we end up in the play offs you can say incredible success but as of now they've only actually done what was hoped of them. That's good but will likely be gone again in summer.  Maybe we'll squeeze another year out of Downing but there's still risk at his age so it'd need careful consideration given the wages.

I think the point a few are trying to hammer home is this can't be put down the building for the future. It's merely plugging gaps and maybe that money could've been used for a decent permanent transfer. Example, a large contribution to 1 Bauer type contract for a few years for the price of these 2 stop gaps.

We have a lot of good young players though, is that not planning for the future? 

The problem is signing top players at 27, 28 years of age is financially out of our range. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Anyone else think Bells looked pretty good since Tosin and Nyanbe have come into the team? I can see him being extended.

Yes, but I can't help but feel he falls into the category of player who is blackened now reputationally and regardless of how well he plays, some will never change their opinion of him. 

[savage90]

What happened to the right sided player Tony expected to sign last week?

[tomphil]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

We have a lot of good young players though, is that not planning for the future? 

The problem is signing top players at 27, 28 years of age is financially out of our range. 

Some are and some are not again we are back to how the hell do other clubs manage and you have kind of missed the point again. Most clubs in this league have youngsters of varying ability they'll be looking to try.

Combine the whole package of signing say Downing & Johnson or Tosin and Gallager.  That's a lot of money spent for so called not being able to buy some more established championship player. 

[Waggy76]

5 minutes ago, savage90 said:

What happened to the right sided player Tony expected to sign last week?

The man who never was !!!

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We need 2 keepers, right back, 2 centre back and 2 left back. Thats 7 players there. Plus a striker and Winger

If we go out and sign 9 players like that and it's a completely different team that costs about £20m to put together. It's never going to happen.

Fish or Hilton can sit on the bench as #2 next season, we just need a confident, experienced goalkeeper. We need two centre-backs I agree, but Nyambe has right-back covered and I can't imagine Bennett is going anywhere under Mowbray. I think we need A left back, Bell fine as cover and Lewis Thompson showing again with a goal today why he deserves a shot at some point too. Armstrong is fine as first choice striker, he's proving that. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Some are and some are not again we are back to how the hell do other clubs manage and you have kind of missed the point again. Most clubs in this league have youngsters of varying ability they'll be looking to try.

Combine the whole package of signing say Downing & Johnson or Tosin and Gallager.  That's a lot of money spent for so called not being able to buy some more established championship player. 

I don't get your first paragraph.

Are Downing and Johnson not the definition of established Championship players though? Albeit a bit older than ideal. As I said, we wouldn't be able to afford them if they were 28.

Putting Tosin in there is odd, would you not class that as money well spent? I would. Villa were lauded for bringing Mings in on loan last January.