January transfer window 2020

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Yeah it's not a guarantee by any stretch. But it is relatively easier to get promoted again if a year in the Prem and parachute payments are used properly. 

Indeed,but you need to keep the same manager and a large amount of personnel. That has been proven. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Man,look at how much they have put in. 

They have no choice but to fund the club with debt and share capital to keep it running as a going concern but its a whole new ball game suggesting that they would spend as much as was required to get promoted, a totally baseless suggestion.

[bluebruce]

47 minutes ago, Hi Mack said:

Last year's lack of transfer activity in the January window cost us massively, to let that happen again would be criminal.

That said, if there's no money, there's no money. I find it strange a loan signing was imminent over a week ago but still nothing has happened.

It wasn't said that a loan signing was imminent a week ago. The wording used was along the lines of, a deal is set up for if we decide to finalise it. We may have changed our minds since, or be waiting to see how everything else pans out.

[Wegerleswiggle]

3 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

It wasn't said that a loan signing was imminent a week ago. The wording used was along the lines of, a deal is set up for if we decide to finalise it. We may have changed our minds since, or be waiting to see how everything else pans out.

Maybe the deal was for a Liverpool youngster, and then JRC showed what he has to offer and Tony decided against it. 

 

[Crimpshrine]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Man,look at how much they have put in. 

Every club owner has to cover the cost of running their club. Venky's are not special in that respect.

The difference is other club owners understand what they are doing and accept that is what they bought into and actually take an interest.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Crimpshrine

[bluebruce]

Just now, Wegerleswiggle said:

Maybe the deal was for a Liverpool youngster, and then JRC showed what he has to offer and Tony decided against it. 

 

Yeh maybe. With all the supposed interest in permanent wingers like Curtis and the Polish lad though, I suspect we thought 'we want a good permanent signing on the wing, but we will take this loan as a plaster if that doesn't work out'

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Magloire recalled

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/Rovers/status/1222580222190551042

“Like a new signing”

[Bigdoggsteel]

26 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

They have no choice but to fund the club with debt and share capital to keep it running as a going concern but its a whole new ball game suggesting that they would spend as much as was required to get promoted, a totally baseless suggestion.

I never claimed they did. My point was they have put huge money onto the club. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Every club owner has to cover the cost of running their club. Venky's are not special in that respect.

The difference is other club owners understand what they are doing and accept that is what they bought into and actually take an interest.

Some do,some don't. Some completely remove themselves from the financial aspect beyond keeping the lights on, they haven't. 

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

As I’ve said a few times, there is ZERO pressure from Venkys on expenditure. The manager, staff and players ask and they get.

The only problem is ffp....if it were upto Venkys they’d spend whatever it took to get up. They never curtailed spending at the beginning either. Shame SEM didn’t have any top players at the time ?

For the first 2 years after relegation we weren't constrained by FFP. Where was their spending then? 

If FFP was abolished tomorrow Venkys would sanction massive spending on players? Nah.

Look at the state of Ewood. No investment at all beyond essential stuff. They just aren't interested.

For years the theory was that they would spend big if promotion was a possibility. Last two January's we have been in decent positions yet nothing spent on the team.

They're having us on

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

For the first 2 years after relegation we weren't constrained by FFP. Where was their spending then? 

If FFP was abolished tomorrow Venkys would sanction massive spending on players? Nah.

Look at the state of Ewood. No investment at all beyond essential stuff. They just aren't interested.

For years the theory was that they would spend big if promotion was a possibility. Last two January's we have been in decent positions yet nothing spent on the team.

They're having us on

 

 

Rhodes, Murphy, Etuhu, keeping a lot of other high earners on. They did spend. They were just clueless. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Rhodes, Murphy, Etuhu, keeping a lot of other high earners on. They did spend. They were just clueless. 

 plus neglectful, arrogant and insulting our intelligence...just saying

[tomphil]

Venks 'would' spend whatever it took to get us up if they could'

Wash your mouth out they wouldn't ever even spend on a top class manager never mind stave off relegation with some decent signings or give Paul Lambert at least the Rhodes money they'd promised him !! Or for that matter a decent wedge to Bowyer after he'd made them a fortune and steered us through FFP !!!!

That statement has to be the biggest baloney on here in a long time. Even if they wanted to in years ago the money had to be used to pay off the complete mess they'd made and get rid of their 'like family' friends. Friends of those fiends who then delivered us Owen Coyle and still hang around to this day !

Some people will say anything to spin the truth there's a fine line between positive thinking and outright spin. Statements like that boil my blood it is exactly the tripe put about by Nixon and co last time we were about to go into embargo !

Edited January 29, 2020 by tomphil

[JHRover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Rhodes, Murphy, Etuhu, keeping a lot of other high earners on. They did spend. They were just clueless. 

They spent the first summer because they thought it was so simple as buying promotion and left Shebby and Kean to wreck the club by piling ridiculous costs onto the books.

After summer 2012 it became a cost cutting exercise focused on reducing costs and recruiting through frees, loans and cheap signings. Only 2-3 exceptions to that in the 7 years since - Brereton, Armstrong, Gallagher - and it is clear what the motivation was with those.

I'm afraid it is going to take a lot more than this to convince me these owners are keen to spend but cannot. 

I look at what the owners at Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Brighton, Bournemouth have done since 2012 compared to ours and there's no comparison. Our lot have zero interest or pride in the club and will only invest into players if a case can be put to them that they'll get a return on it in a few years.

[Leonard Venkhater]

 

 

 

 

3

Just now, tomphil said:

Venks 'would' spend whatever it took to get us up if they could'

Wash your mouth out they wouldn't ever even spend on a top class manager never mind stave off relegation with some decent signings or give Paul Lambert at least the Rhodes money they'd promised him !! Or for that matter a decent wedge to Bowyer after he'd made them a fortune and steered us through FFP !!!!

That statement has to be the biggest baloney on here in a long time. Even if they wanted to in years ago the money had to be used to pay off the complete mess they'd made and get rid of their 'like family' friends. Friends of those fiends who then delivered us Owen Coyle and still hang around to this day !

Some people will say anything to spin the truth there's a fine line between positive thinking and outright spin.

That has got to be a big worry. Is HSH merely a reincarnation of SEM?

Suhail-SEM or Kentaro? I have forgotten which, but one of them, certainly in the past!

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

 plus neglectful, arrogant and insulting our intelligence...just saying

Separate issue, we are talking about money put in. We can all agree on the on what you say. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

They spent the first summer because they thought it was so simple as buying promotion and left Shebby and Kean to wreck the club by piling ridiculous costs onto the books.

After summer 2012 it became a cost cutting exercise focused on reducing costs and recruiting through frees, loans and cheap signings. Only 2-3 exceptions to that in the 7 years since - Brereton, Armstrong, Gallagher - and it is clear what the motivation was with those.

I'm afraid it is going to take a lot more than this to convince me these owners are keen to spend but cannot. 

I look at what the owners at Wolves, Leicester, Villa, Brighton, Bournemouth have done since 2012 compared to ours and there's no comparison. Our lot have zero interest or pride in the club and will only invest into players if a case can be put to them that they'll get a return on it in a few years.

You are comparing us to promoted clubs. Any team in our division can do that. Ultimately they have put hundreds of millions in. Whether it be pride,which is my guess,or whatever reason, that's a fact. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Separate issue, we are talking about money put in. We can all agree on the on what you say. 

No. You said "they were just clueless". I think that is you playing the "Venky's were naive/ badly advised" card, which I don't buy for one minute!

Edited January 29, 2020 by Leonard Venkhater

[Hasta]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Rhodes, Murphy, Etuhu, keeping a lot of other high earners on. They did spend. They were just clueless. 

How much didn't the parachute payments cover that spending? Where they even aware of the forecast budgets after relegation for years +1, +2, +3 etc...  Did they know how much they were paying those players? 

I don't know the answers, but they may well have been unaware and 'badly advised' on that as well and therefore had no idea what they were ultimately spending / risking.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Hasta

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

No. You said "they were just clueless". I think that is you playing the "Venky's were naive/ badly advised" card, which I don't buy for one minute!

They clearly were. Do you think they wanted us to get relegated and therefore out hundreds of millions in? Makes no sense. 

[JHRover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

You are comparing us to promoted clubs. Any team in our division can do that. Ultimately they have out hundreds of millions in. 

None of those clubs i mentioned were promoted when their owners arrived. Their owners wanted to better their clubs so invested real money into improvements across the board - facilities, staff, players, managers - and reaped the rewards of that with promotion. 

Our lot have just been on a damage limitation exercise whilst hiding away on the other side of the world. Yes they've put money in to keep the doors open, but lets not pretend they are sat with their chequebooks open desperate to invest and push us on to a new level but can't because of FFP .

1) If they were keen enough to invest there are ways of doing it as the above clubs have shown

2) If they were keen to invest they could still do so to facilities/non playing staff yet have spent diddly squat.

[Guest]

This is turning into a Venkys thread, which already exists, but I can see why with Rovers providing no transfer rumours to get excited over

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Hasta said:

How much didn't the parachute payments cover that spending? Where they even aware of the forecast budgets after relegation for years +1, +2, +3 etc...  Did they know how much they were paying those players? 

I don't know the answers, but they may well have been unaware and 'badly advised' on that as well and therefore had no idea what they were ultimately spending / risking.

They ,for some reason, decided to buy a club. Kids with money etc. We have felt the brunt of it. 

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

They clearly were. Do you think they wanted us to get relegated and therefore out hundreds of millions in? Makes no sense. 

It's because they have no sense. They have no interest. They have more money than sense. Why piss £180 million up the wall. I'm on tenterhooks for Madame to tell us!

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JHRover said:

None of those clubs i mentioned were promoted when their owners arrived. Their owners wanted to better their clubs so invested real money into improvements across the board - facilities, staff, players, managers - and reaped the rewards of that with promotion. 

Our lot have just been on a damage limitation exercise whilst hiding away on the other side of the world. Yes they've put money in to keep the doors open, but lets not pretend they are sat with their chequebooks open desperate to invest and push us on to a new level but can't because of FFP .

1) If they were keen enough to invest there are ways of doing it as the above clubs have shown

2) If they were keen to invest they could still do so to facilities/non playing staff yet have spent diddly squat.

Those clubs didn't all rely on investment. Those that did have big crowds. The ones that didn't were a combination of good management, getting signings right etc. Looking at where we are now, we are like may clubs that are in the mix. Mowbray is doing well. If we got gates of 30,000 plus per week then we could have expectations of loaning those game changers. 

How do we make money? Honest question.