January transfer window 2020

[Guest]

15 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It seems a little bit presumptuous IMO to assume that all of them players are hamstrung by playing in front of crowds

Oh then you're misreading me. Or I've poorly explained my position. I'm not for one second suggesting that nerves and big crowds are the only things hampering a large portion of our squad. The example of Ben Brereton is bang on, and all the players I've mentioned seem to have several obstacles to overcome. Some of those players will never overcome those obstacles. I was just theorising that at least one of the obstacles that several of our players face is big crowds/big match nerves. I think Ben Brereton's best performances for us have come in pre-seaosn games, youth games and the likes. Most likely because there's much less pressure. 

Whilst the squad seem to believe there's still an outside chance at the play-offs, most have given up on that for this season, so I think the remaining fixtures BCD, with less match pressure for results and no live crowd pressure would probably help a lot of our lads.

But yes, I absolutely agree that those aforementioned players also face other significant issues within their game.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

If the season does finish End of July/Mid August then the New Season will probably start Mid October as I guess I would imagine. But lets finish this season 1st. 

Money short? These PL football clubs are owned by Billionaires and the 3 teams from Championship who get promotion will have a shed loads of cash to spend. Plus the 3 clubs that come down. 

Rovers are owners who are wealthy so it will be interest what they do. Plus will FFP be scrap?

Lots of Premier League clubs are pleading poverty in my paper this morning because it looks like they are going to have to pay back some of the TV money.

Regarding Dack, when you've had a serious injury like that the recovery is 50% physical and 50% mental. Nobody will know if he's back to his best until he's played a few games. We all thought Jansen was going to recover 100% but he never did.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Nobody will know if he's back to his best until he's played a few games. We all thought Jansen was going to recover 100% but he never did.

Yup absolutely. It's exactly the kind of injury which a significant amount of players over the years have never 'truly' recovered from. Dack will come back and play at some point but he could be pretty injury prone from this point forward in his career. It could even change his gameplay. It's been seen way too many times unfortunately. 

Even lads like Dan Butterworth and Joe Grayson. They've both been out nearly the entire season. They've missed out on a key year of development. These long term injuries aren't just something you shake off and can move forward from completely.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, JoeH said:

Yup absolutely. It's exactly the kind of injury which a significant amount of players over the years have never 'truly' recovered from. Dack will come back and play at some point but he could be pretty injury prone from this point forward in his career. It could even change his gameplay. It's been seen way too many times unfortunately. 

Even lads like Dan Butterworth and Joe Grayson. They've both been out nearly the entire season. They've missed out on a key year of development. These long term injuries aren't just something you shake off and can move forward from completely.

I broke my leg twice as a young player. Physically I was fine afterwards, just as fast on my feet etc but mentally I wasn't the same ever again. Following the second break I retired from serious football after a few months of trying to get back to my best. I just wasn't prepared to play at that lower level.

[roversfan99]

51 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Oh then you're misreading me. Or I've poorly explained my position. I'm not for one second suggesting that nerves and big crowds are the only things hampering a large portion of our squad. The example of Ben Brereton is bang on, and all the players I've mentioned seem to have several obstacles to overcome. Some of those players will never overcome those obstacles. I was just theorising that at least one of the obstacles that several of our players face is big crowds/big match nerves. I think Ben Brereton's best performances for us have come in pre-seaosn games, youth games and the likes. Most likely because there's much less pressure. 

Whilst the squad seem to believe there's still an outside chance at the play-offs, most have given up on that for this season, so I think the remaining fixtures BCD, with less match pressure for results and no live crowd pressure would probably help a lot of our lads.

But yes, I absolutely agree that those aforementioned players also face other significant issues within their game.

I suspect the primary reason that Brereton has had his best games in pre season and in under 23 games is because of the standard of opposition to be fair, its not really achievement scoring in a friendly against a Bury side who were about to go out of business and could barely name a side or against a Doncaster kids team. I think id have fancied my chances.

I feel it is a little presumptious personally to second guess the mentality of the squad in this way but there may be some in our squad like in others who would prefer a less pressurised environment, who knows, but then again if a player cannot play in front of a crowd then hes no good for a Championship team.

[chaddyrovers]

57 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Lots of Premier League clubs are pleading poverty in my paper this morning because it looks like they are going to have to pay back some of the TV money.

Regarding Dack, when you've had a serious injury like that the recovery is 50% physical and 50% mental. Nobody will know if he's back to his best until he's played a few games. We all thought Jansen was going to recover 100% but he never did.

Yes clubs at the lower end of PL rely on the TV money for wages. Villa's wage bill is huge. Where has Norwich have been sensible in terms of fees paid and wages. So should cope. 

Yes you are right about serious injuries been half physical and half mental as I know from my own experiences 

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

We won't be investing in a promotion push this year, I think we can safely all agree on that.

Yes fair enough it will all still count, but I can't say I will care as much watching behind closed doors football. I imagine there will be plenty in the same boat too.

I think investing more time in the youngsters now is the perfect time if everything is behind closed doors, if someone exceptional like a Downing pops up on a free for the GK or CH position and we can realistically get them then fair enough.

Who knows what Venkys will do? How badly money have they been during this? 

Yes we can investing Youngsters but under Mowbray we have been doing this..

Is Hilton or Fisher ready to be Championship number 1? I would say no 

Is Hayden Carter or Scott Wharton ready to replace Adarabioyo? No chance. 

Play Rankin Costello more? Yes I would. 

Is Butterworth ready? Unsure. 

From Under 18's

Whitehall, Pike, Burns, Gent and Brennan all look good prospects for the future. All they ready for Championship football? no

Edited May 21, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I feel it is a little presumptious personally to second guess the mentality of the squad in this way but there may be some in our squad like in others who would prefer a less pressurised environment, who knows, but then again if a player cannot play in front of a crowd then hes no good for a Championship team.

Again, it's not really controversial to say that one of the main down sides to having a significant amount of younger, more inexperienced set of players is the pressures of playing in high profile games in front of a crowd, sometimes a hostile crowd. There's plenty of other factors for sure, but I really don't think it's presumptuous when it seems to be backed up at least to me quite clearly by evidence throughout the last few seasons.

Take Bury away in League One. Huge game in terms of pressure. Both ends housed with Rovers fans. Joe Nuttall struggled. A young player bang in form, given a game but mentally he struggled. Missed an amazing opportunity in the first half and couldn't see out the match. Experienced European footballer Marcus Antonsson however, thrived. 

[bluebruce]

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I suspect the primary reason that Brereton has had his best games in pre season and in under 23 games is because of the standard of opposition to be fair, its not really achievement scoring in a friendly against a Bury side who were about to go out of business and could barely name a side or against a Doncaster kids team. I think id have fancied my chances.

I feel it is a little presumptious personally to second guess the mentality of the squad in this way but there may be some in our squad like in others who would prefer a less pressurised environment, who knows, but then again if a player cannot play in front of a crowd then hes no good for a Championship team.

Personally I think BB is the most mentally weak player we have. Yes it's presumptuous but we have to presume things we don't know. I feel it's fairly clear from his body language at various points. It has certainly created the image of a player who sorely needs sustained confidence. All players do, but he really really does.

[roversfan99]

11 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Personally I think BB is the most mentally weak player we have. Yes it's presumptuous but we have to presume things we don't know. I feel it's fairly clear from his body language at various points. It has certainly created the image of a player who sorely needs sustained confidence. All players do, but he really really does.

That may be the case, but the main reason that he manages to score against a soon to be extinct Bury and Doncasters kids is because of the standard of opposition.

[bluebruce]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

That may be the case, but the main reason that he manages to score against a soon to be extinct Bury and Doncasters kids is because of the standard of opposition.

That I can agree with. Same for his performances for the reserves. But I think there is some merit to Joe's suggestion that the lad might do a bit better without a crowd present. How much so, who knows.

[rigger]

10 hours ago, bluebruce said:

That I can agree with. Same for his performances for the reserves. But I think there is some merit to Joe's suggestion that the lad might do a bit better without a crowd present. How much so, who knows.

If he can’t perform in front of a crowd how has he become a pro footballer. Pro players in all sports yearn for the big stages.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

If he can’t perform in front of a crowd how has he become a pro footballer. Pro players in all sports yearn for the big stages.

It's the way football is going because it's the way life is going.

Post-2000 born footballers grew up in the world that I did, a schooling system which coddles. Lack of discipline in households, on the streets, in schools and on playing fields. Players of that age are now typically "snowflakes". You get the odd Lewis Travis, from rougher areas who are pretty tough from a young age, but a major consequence of having a youthful team is a lack of 80's and 90's resilience that the older players have instilled into them from when they were younger.

Ben Brereton isn't alone in this unfortunate trait. Way too many younger players across England are becoming this way. Countless loan spells out to other clubs where there's less responsibility, playing against youth sides til the age of 23 in some cases (see Sam Gallagher).. It's a major issue for the world of football.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

That may be the case, but the main reason that he manages to score against a soon to be extinct Bury and Doncasters kids is because of the standard of opposition.

You're right, and I wasn't even really trying to say he played particularly well in those games, he was bang average to be honest.

My main point was that it's pretty clear that players like Brereton absolutely struggle under pressure. Ewood can be a very tough environment. As a fan base we're very fickle really. Whilst we've had a much more relaxed few seasons, the Blackburn End can turn on the players very VERY quickly. I'm not saying we're the only club that's like this but it is definitely prominent here. Brereton didn't have as much pressure at Forest as he does here. He was "their" player, from their youth academy, much like Travis for us, so they were much more supportive right from the get go, and also much more forgiving.

Add in a £7m transfer fee, a real pressure was put on Brereton at just 19 years old. He is clearly lacking in confidence and whilst I think there's other major issues like his ability as a footballer in general, it seems odd to me to play down the impact that the mental side of this has had on his game. Getting booed at Birmingham, people seem to think that won't affect a 19/20 year old lad. It does and it will continue to.

If you look at his gameplay at Forest, even in that game against us in 16/17, he looks alright. He looks fairly confident to try things (see his 30-yard effort against us in that game at the end of the first half). We've never seen him like that here. That's not me excusing his shit form purely because of confidence but I'm saying it absolutely affects it. It's silly to even suggest that it doesn't have an effect. Why would a player who was coping fairly well in a Forest side the league above us in 17/18 suddenly become so poor? There has to be a huge mental aspect to that. Whether that's the transfer fee, the pressures of not being "home grown" so not being so easily forgiven, or just the general attitudes of Rovers fans.

Look, he's pretty shit. I don't think he'll ever be a Championship forward at Blackburn Rovers, but I just find it baffling that you think it's presumptuous to say he's clearly facing huge mental obstacles like big match pressure, crowd pressure and a big transfer fee looming over his head.

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

You're right, and I wasn't even really trying to say he played particularly well in those games, he was bang average to be honest.

My main point was that it's pretty clear that players like Brereton absolutely struggle under pressure. Ewood can be a very tough environment. As a fan base we're very fickle really. Whilst we've had a much more relaxed few seasons, the Blackburn End can turn on the players very VERY quickly. I'm not saying we're the only club that's like this but it is definitely prominent here. Brereton didn't have as much pressure at Forest as he does here. He was "their" player, from their youth academy, much like Travis for us, so they were much more supportive right from the get go, and also much more forgiving.

Add in a £7m transfer fee, a real pressure was put on Brereton at just 19 years old. He is clearly lacking in confidence and whilst I think there's other major issues like his ability as a footballer in general, it seems odd to me to play down the impact that the mental side of this has had on his game. Getting booed at Birmingham, people seem to think that won't affect a 19/20 year old lad. It does and it will continue to.

If you look at his gameplay at Forest, even in that game against us in 16/17, he looks alright. He looks fairly confident to try things (see his 30-yard effort against us in that game at the end of the first half). We've never seen him like that here. That's not me excusing his shit form purely because of confidence but I'm saying it absolutely affects it. It's silly to even suggest that it doesn't have an effect. Why would a player who was coping fairly well in a Forest side the league above us in 17/18 suddenly become so poor? There has to be a huge mental aspect to that. Whether that's the transfer fee, the pressures of not being "home grown" so not being so easily forgiven, or just the general attitudes of Rovers fans.

Look, he's pretty shit. I don't think he'll ever be a Championship forward at Blackburn Rovers, but I just find it baffling that you think it's presumptuous to say he's clearly facing huge mental obstacles like big match pressure, crowd pressure and a big transfer fee looming over his head.

I just didnt really get the rationale behind selecting the specific players you mentioned as players who will thrive behind closed doors, thats all. For example Nyambe I think did look very nervous when he came in but this season he has been consistent in front of crowds. Maybe you are right in suggesting that we could benefit from playing behind closed doors but I am not sure on how much evidence there is to support it.

Regarding him as a player, ultimately he scored very few goals at Forest (of course he is young), ultimately he broke through at a time when they were in the bottom half, a year or two later and he couldnt make the matchday squad anymore. The best game he has ever had was in front of possibly one of the biggest crowds he will have played in front of and on TV too. Ultimately I think he was a player who had one stand out game as a young lad and maybe without that a 7m fee would have been unthinkable.

 There is definitely the pressure of a big price tag but for example the booing at Birmingham was 18 months into his time following repeated poor and to be honest half arsed performances. And I don't think the Blackburn End or indeed Ewood in general is the fickle hotbed you imply at all, indeed you see the reaction when he scored v Bolton, I do think at times people overstate how supposedly demanding we can be.

[Ricky]

I wonder who will be taking a punt on Jordan Ibe. Soon to be out of contract after his £16m move to Bournemouth really didn’t work out well. There’s a player in there somewhere and he’s still only in his mid 20s. I’m sure he will end up staying in the premier league with someone but I’ll be intrigued to see how his next move works out.

[BlackburnEnd75]

5 hours ago, Ricky said:

I wonder who will be taking a punt on Jordan Ibe. Soon to be out of contract after his £16m move to Bournemouth really didn’t work out well. There’s a player in there somewhere and he’s still only in his mid 20s. I’m sure he will end up staying in the premier league with someone but I’ll be intrigued to see how his next move works out.

Liverpool fans thought he could be as good as sterling was (before he went to the next level at city). Clearly a player there. I dont know anything about why he has failed at Bournemouth but you suspect a serious attitude problem. And with one of those he might be a lost cause.

[Ricky]

Another goal for Ibisevic tonight. I remember us being linked to him many moons ago. 

[Norbert Rassragr]

On 22/05/2020 at 14:03, Ricky said:

I wonder who will be taking a punt on Jordan Ibe. Soon to be out of contract after his £16m move to Bournemouth really didn’t work out well. There’s a player in there somewhere and he’s still only in his mid 20s. I’m sure he will end up staying in the premier league with someone but I’ll be intrigued to see how his next move works out.

He's been in trouble for breaching lockdown rules I think, crashed his car into a cafe and then ran, and he has a reputation for being one of those guys more interested in money and parties than training and performing on the pitch.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Norbert Rassragr

[Sparks Rover]

Read somewhere that Cunningham has enrolled at UCLAN on a sports course.  Perhaps he's on his way back here for next season.

Left back has been a nightmare for years

[Mattyblue]

Ewood a ‘very tough environment’?

Heard it all now 

[Fraserkirky]

Joshua King rumoured to be on the move. Sell on fee?

[yellowsubmarine]

17 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Joshua King rumoured to be on the move. Sell on fee?

Cherries paid a compensation fee according to this article. Not sure if there's any sell-on fee for such agreement.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11743/9927481/bournemouth-agree-undisclosed-fee-for-joshua-king

[G Somerset Rover]

2 hours ago, yellowsubmarine said:

Cherries paid a compensation fee according to this article. Not sure if there's any sell-on fee for such agreement.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11743/9927481/bournemouth-agree-undisclosed-fee-for-joshua-king

95% sure we have a pretty decent sell on fee due to the terms of the deal that the Cherries got him under. Shame he’s only got a year left on his deal.

[Amo]

22 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Joshua King rumoured to be on the move. Sell on fee?

Hope he doesn't return to United.

Why go back to a club that deemed you not good enough?

[Vinjay]

12 minutes ago, Amo said:

Hope he doesn't return to United.

Why go back to a club that deemed you not good enough?

What did you say when Greer went back to Rovers? Yes the situation had changed considerably at Ewood (and has to an extent at United) but he must have felt somewhat smug about the whole thing. One of my mottos is "never humble yourself" and that's what the club did by letting Greer return. Same reason I was opposed to any Beattie links including when club was still in EPL.

King's not good enough (for what they aspire towards) so hopefully will return there. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Vinjay