January transfer window 2020

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I wasn't aware that any staff at Rovers have been furloughed. My point was more generalised for all of football.

The difference between the companies you mention is that they won't be spending money on transfer fees. Furlough has been a really good scheme but if football clubs  (or any businesses) abuse it they should be punished.

It's a fair point you make in all fairness aribtro. 

Havent Norwich sign a player whilst furlough non playing staff? 

[arbitro]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It's a fair point you make in all fairness aribtro. 

Havent Norwich sign a player whilst furlough non playing staff? 

They have but I they didn't at the time announce whether they paid a fee. If it transpires that they did they should have to pay the furlough money back in my view.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52249423

[Guest]

17 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Martinez is a much better keeper than Walton. I agree on Oxford though - dont know much about him but midfielders converted to CBs rarely works and tends to point to issues such as injuries or age catching up. 

Olsson, hmmm. Not ideal long term but I doubt you could say we have better here. Even if for one season he would be better than what we have. Cunningham would be the better option longterm i agree. 

I don't think Martinez has exactly proven he'd be any better than Walton. As a club you take a massive risk when loaning players in, see £20k a week Kasey Palmer circa 2018/19. Walton might not be everybodies favourite, but we all know full well he's usable at least. Same with Tosin. If we're going to loan players from Top 6 Premier League clubs on silly wages, I'd sooner us go for the proven ones than be aiming for unknown players not only to our team but also to this division.

Cunningham would be great, but our main issue will be that if Amari'i Bell goes, clubs will know how desperate we are at Left-Back and attempt to shaft us. A bit like Manchester United with Josh King, they desperately needed a striker so Bournemouth adjusted the premium accordingly. Might be worth bringing an Olsson back just for cover anyway.

[roversfan99]

I think there is a big difference between Man United still to replace Lukaku with millions burning a hole in their pocket throwing it at a Prem team desperate to take a key asset from them, and Rovers trying to beg, steal and borrow, especially post financial issues caused by a pandemic to find a left back, targetting one who has been seriously injured and previously considered unneeded by his parent Championship club.

I am not convinced that Cardiff will be happy to loan him out dependant on the opinion of their manager brought in after Cunningham had joined us, I think thats the main issue.

You are right that we need to ensure any loans coming can hit the ground running although to be honest that is easier said than done. Adarabioyo very much was a risk, he had not shown himself (or been given the chance) to prove he was a competent Championship centre back and it was a risk to put our eggs in that one basket. He had spent a season at West Brom in which the vast majority of his game time came out of position at full back where he struggled. We had no evidence that he would come in and slot in so competently.

The loan market is a bit of a minefield unfortunately, and with money at a premium for teams after the pandemic I suspect reliance on and thus competition for them will ramp up. You look at 3 of the most successful loans last year aside from Tosin, Ben White had previously spent a couple of underwhelming loan spells lower down the pyramid and was brought in to replace Jansson, and Conor Gallagher and Rhian Brewster both had no real senior experience. The relevant teams were fortunate as to how well they did.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You look at 3 of the most successful loans last year aside from Tosin, Ben White had previously spent a couple of underwhelming loan spells lower down the pyramid and was brought in to replace Jansson, and Conor Gallagher and Rhian Brewster both had no real senior experience. The relevant teams were fortunate as to how well they did.

isn't WBA player Matheus Pereria loan signing of the season? with 6 goals and 16 assists this season

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Adarabioyo very much was a risk, he had not shown himself (or been given the chance) to prove he was a competent Championship centre back and it was a risk to put our eggs in that one basket. He had spent a season at West Brom in which the vast majority of his game time came out of position at full back where he struggled. We had no evidence that he would come in and slot in so competently.

That's why you got to trust the manager and his scouting staff with scouting players properly. 

Seems like WBA wasted Tosin's talent and ability last season

It will be interesting to see what signings we will make in the Next transfer window

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

isn't WBA player Matheus Pereria loan signing of the season? with 6 goals and 16 assists this season

That's why you got to trust the manager and his scouting staff with scouting players properly. 

Seems like WBA wasted Tosin's talent and ability last season

It will be interesting to see what signings we will make in the Next transfer window

I said 3 of the most successful, 4 including Adarabioyo, which they were, but specifically I was talking about players with minimal or no first team experience prior to this season that had been signed on loan with a risk attached because these sides couldnt know whether they would come in and slot in having had no previous experience or proof that they can do what is expected.

Adarabioyo came with lots of doubts because he had never played any real football at centre back. He had a solitary season at Championship level in which he attracted a lot of criticism for poor performances and mistakes made playing out of position. He had a just excuse for that in that he is a centre back but Mowbray didnt have anything to look back at or indeed scout to say that he would be a competent Championship centre back. If he goes out on loan elsewhere next season that club would be able to look at his spell here.

You dont have to command people to "trust the manager and his scouting staff" every time. The same manager and scouting staff also saw fit to spend 12 million on 2 wastes of space, like any manager he makes mistakes in terms of transfers and people are free to judge and critique rather than just blindly trust. If you are happy to just "trust the manager" as a general rule and cant accept constructive debate then maybe discussions about transfers and players is not for you 

I struggle to be excited about a transfer window that isnt for 2 months presumably when clubs are skint amidst a pandemic ahead of a probably behind closed doors season but each to their own! 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Adarabioyo came with lots of doubts because he had never played any real football at centre back. He had a solitary season at Championship level in which he attracted a lot of criticism for poor performances and mistakes made playing out of position. He had a just excuse for that in that he is a centre back but Mowbray didnt have anything to look back at or indeed scout to say that he would be a competent Championship centre back.

That's why I mention to yourself during that summer about not over judging players on the back some fans opinions. Mowbray and his staff knew their wanted a ball playing centre back last summer

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You dont have to command people to "trust the manager and his scouting staff" every time. The same manager and scouting staff also saw fit to spend 12 million on 2 wastes of space,

It was general point about fans trusting their manager and recruitment staff cos of the amount of scouting that clubs do. Wasn't just talking about Rovers but you look at someone like Brentford or Leeds. and the amount of researching and scouting that goes into the scouting players. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I struggle to be excited about a transfer window that isnt for 2 months presumably when clubs are skint amidst a pandemic ahead of a probably behind closed doors season but each to their own! 

Not sure about next season behind closed doors will be at this stage as we don't even know when the season will start, When the season will start and what the current situation is with a vaccine or treatment then

Some clubs will be skint but we wont be. We have wealthy owners

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

That's why I mention to yourself during that summer about not over judging players on the back some fans opinions. Mowbray and his staff knew their wanted a ball playing centre back last summer

It was general point about fans trusting their manager and recruitment staff cos of the amount of scouting that clubs do. Wasn't just talking about Rovers but you look at someone like Brentford or Leeds. and the amount of researching and scouting that goes into the scouting players. 

Not sure about next season behind closed doors will be at this stage as we don't even know when the season will start, When the season will start and what the current situation is with a vaccine or treatment then

Some clubs will be skint but we wont be. We have wealthy owners

My point in a discussion to another poster was that loan players, even recent successful examples have been signed and trusted to fill positions with no previous senior experience to back up the risk. It wasnt even a criticism, yet again you have barged in with a defensive attitude. 

If your mentality is to blindly not critique/judge and just assume that Mowbray is signing the right players, or indeed that any person is, that is fine, but other people will. 

Regarding this example, we signed a player and doubts were raised about someone with no senior experience as a centre back and with only a shaky spell at right back on his CV to come in and fix a woeful defence from the previous season. Regardless of the success that he has been, those doubts were very valid and very constructive and understandable.

[rigger]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My point in a discussion to another poster was that loan players, even recent successful examples have been signed and trusted to fill positions with no previous senior experience to back up the risk. It wasnt even a criticism, yet again you have barged in with a defensive attitude. 

If your mentality is to blindly not critique/judge and just assume that Mowbray is signing the right players, or indeed that any person is, that is fine, but other people will. 

Regarding this example, we signed a player and doubts were raised about someone with no senior experience as a centre back and with only a shaky spell at right back on his CV to come in and fix a woeful defence from the previous season. Regardless of the success that he has been, those doubts were very valid and very constructive and understandable.

I agree with most points. A manager should not be lauded as a genius after a good signing. The same as he shouldn’t be scathed after a bad signing. But what I do think a manager should be berated for is persevering with mistakes to save face.

[roversfan99]

Just now, rigger said:

I agree with most points. A manager should not be lauded as a genius after a good signing. The same as he shouldn’t be scathed after a bad signing. But what I do think a manager should be berated for is persevering with mistakes to save face.

Agreed. Also a players time here or anywhere else may not necessarily follow logic but it does not make them initial constructive views, hopes and fears to be necessarily unfounded or indeed unfair.

Stewart Downing joined with Boro fans seemingly happy to see him go, having not played for the last half of a season, and when he has played in the last few years his productivity seemed to have been on the wane.

Adarabioyo as mentioned came in to plug a huge hole that we needed to get right, having played no real senior football at centre back and on the back of a shaky loan spell playing at right back.

Bradley Johnson meanwhile came in off the back of a crucial role in a Derby side that made the play off final and with a stellar CV in Championship terms. The vast majority saw it as a great signing.

Sam Gallagher was a player of mixed opinions but many got hope from an ok loan spell when he was younger.

As it has turned out, Downing has been our best player, Adarabioyo has slipped into the back 4 like a glove, Johnson has been particularly underwhelming and unable to nail down a regular spot, and Gallagher has been absolutely dismal.

[Adam C]

On 28/05/2020 at 17:28, arbitro said:

I wasn't aware that any staff at Rovers have been furloughed. My point was more generalised for all of football.

The difference between the companies you mention is that they won't be spending money on transfer fees. Furlough has been a really good scheme but if football clubs  (or any businesses) abuse it they should be punished.

Another way of looking at it is that signing a player is a form of capital investment for a football club. I’m sure plenty of companies that have furloughed staff will keep investing in an effort to stay competitive with their rivals. Are football clubs any different?

[Vinjay]

36 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

Another way of looking at it is that signing a player is a form of capital investment for a football club. I’m sure plenty of companies that have furloughed staff will keep investing in an effort to stay competitive with their rivals. Are football clubs any different?

Athletic Bilbao rarely pay transfer fees due to their policy of only signing basque players. Never been relegated from La Liga. I'm not interested in a "locals only" policy but with FUP what's the point in spending transfer fees? Sign players with edgier personalities, give them freedom and who's to say it wouldn't work? Bilbao manage it with such a limited catchment area compared to all of Europe like most clubs have. You could also have a policy of only signing young players on lengthy contracts. If they refuse to play at some point sue the hell out of them. Nobody would join under such circumstances? Who knows? Clubs should do things on their own terms only (those not crippled by FUP aside) and sometimes that's worth more than any transfer fee. 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Vinjay said:

Athletic Bilbao rarely pay transfer fees due to their policy of only signing basque players. Never been relegated from La Liga. I'm not interested in a "locals only" policy but with FUP what's the point in spending transfer fees? Sign players with edgier personalities, give them freedom and who's to say it wouldn't work? Bilbao manage it with such a limited catchment area compared to all of Europe like most clubs have. You could also have a policy of only signing young players on lengthy contracts. If they refuse to play at some point sue the hell out of them. Nobody would join under such circumstances? Who knows? Clubs should do things on their own terms only (those not crippled by FUP aside) and sometimes that's worth more than any transfer fee. 

didn't Gordon Lee have a similar policy?

[Vinjay]

23 hours ago, rigger said:

didn't Gordon Lee have a similar policy?

What policy was that? He had a "no stars" policy at Newcastle/Everton but that was in a higher division. 

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, Vinjay said:

What policy was that? He had a "no stars" policy at Newcastle/Everton but that was in a higher division. 

I am sure I read somewhere that He preferred his players to be Northerners

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[Sparks Rover]

Lyle Taylor has told Charlton he's leaving, we should get him straight away. Quality player. But, seeing as we've spunked 12m on shyte, cant see the Venkys funding that.

[rigger]

32 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Lyle Taylor has told Charlton he's leaving, we should get him straight away. Quality player. But, seeing as we've spunked 12m on shyte, cant see the Venkys funding that.

Why?, he would seem to have a loyalty problem.

[Sparks Rover]

Not interested in that , he scores goals.  We are a much bigger club than Charlton and we need a quality striker to replace DG

[Gone to seed]

26 minutes ago, rigger said:

Why?, he would seem to have a loyalty problem.

Loyalty, professional football.... chuckle.

[Sparks Rover]

9 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

Loyalty, professional football.... chuckle.

I wish Brereton and Gallagher had loyalty issues and fecked off quick smart.....

[rigger]

43 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not interested in that , he scores goals.  We are a much bigger club than Charlton and we need a quality striker to replace DG

Hence Charlton doing so well

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

Hence Charlton doing so well

76 goals in 190 games over the last few seasons (injuries have played a part). Worth a punt I'd say.

[rigger]

50 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

76 goals in 190 games over the last few seasons (injuries have played a part). Worth a punt I'd say.

Not in the present circumstances, I'd say.

Personally I would go down the route of trying to get in coaches, that will get the best out of what we have already got.

Edited June 1, 2020 by rigger

[Sparks Rover]

21 minutes ago, rigger said:

Not in the present circumstances, I'd say.

Personally I would go down the route of trying to get in coaches, that will get the best out of what we have already got.

You can't polish a turd, mate.