January transfer window 2020

[chaddyrovers]

Edited June 24, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[AJW]

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I don’t see a problem with a manager telling a player he’s not going to be an automatic choice , If the likes of Bauer and McLoughlin only want to go to teams we’re they are comfortable and not under any pressure to perform so be it , I would rather have players with a determination to get into 1st team and then strive to stay there 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, AJW said:

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I don’t see a problem with a manager telling a player he’s not going to be an automatic choice , If the likes of Bauer and McLoughlin only want to go to teams we’re they are comfortable and not under any pressure to perform so be it , I would rather have players with a determination to get into 1st team and then strive to stay there 

But its obviously an oversimplification, I doubt Preston said "you can play no matter how bad your form is if you come here."

[RevidgeBlue]

6 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Hopefully they'll all go away once the games are over, with the exception of Graham and Downing.

Just Downing for a year ideally. It would be ludicrous to give Graham another deal imo, he's already had one year too many.

I find it extremely worrying that all these players have been offered extensions. It smacks of we won't be able to bring anyone else in for next season and they'll all be offered longer extensions once these short term ones expire

[AJW]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But its obviously an oversimplification, I doubt Preston said "you can play no matter how bad your form is if you come here."

And I doubt TM would have said “ you’re coming here to be 3rd choice son “ as some would have us believe 

[RevidgeBlue]

12 minutes ago, AJW said:

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I don’t see a problem with a manager telling a player he’s not going to be an automatic choice , If the likes of Bauer and McLoughlin only want to go to teams we’re they are comfortable and not under any pressure to perform so be it , I would rather have players with a determination to get into 1st team and then strive to stay there 

I know what you're saying but he isn't going to Liverpool or City where it would be reasonable to expect to bide his time and try and force his way in.

If two Clubs from the same division are offering a similar deal but one expects him to go into the first team and make that spot his own and one wants him to come in as a squad player behind other incumbents anyone would be mad to choose the latter Club.

[AJW]

I just  think a lots been made out of it and I haven’t seen anything in Bauer that makes me think we missed out 

anyway it’s old news let’s move on 

[bluebruce]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Also bluebruce and Roversfan99, I wouldn't be making any signings right now until we know which league we are in. Bluebruce, I think its flawed to make any signings right now even if they are available right now to sign for us. We shouldn't committing to anyone at this stage. If it means we miss then fine, From reading a report yesterday it would appear that the transfer window will remain open to the end of October, So you are looking at season starting in my opinion at the start of the season 

I can only think there are two possibilities here. You have either skim read my post, or the point contained within it has soared over your head like an albatross wearing a rocket pack after taking a ton of speed and coke.

Because you certainly haven't answered the points I made. All you've done is make the same points again. Let me try to break it down again.

Scenario 1: We get the players we want on free transfers in preparation for the Championship. We get promoted. At best, we now have some new squad players instead of first teamers, or at worst we spent a piddly amount of our new £200 million influx of funds. Neither is a problem.

Scenario 2: We don't get the players we want on free transfers for our Championship season. We don't get promoted. We have a very limited budget and we now need to recruit 2 goalkeepers, 2 CBs, 1-2 LBs, probably an RB, and potentially wingers, strikers, and TM's latest addition to the CM collection (we don't need that one but history shows it will probably happen). Very likely, very few of them are available for free as many of the best freebies are gone. We now have to spend transfer fees or loan fees for almost all acquisitions.

If you want to reply to these points again, please actually make a point yourself that relates to them. So, tell me what you disagree with about these theoretical scenarios. Because unless you disagree with them, it isn't logical to reply that signing freebies is flawed, or that missing them is fine.

Edited June 24, 2020 by bluebruce

[tomphil]

46 minutes ago, AJW said:

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I don’t see a problem with a manager telling a player he’s not going to be an automatic choice , If the likes of Bauer and McLoughlin only want to go to teams we’re they are comfortable and not under any pressure to perform so be it , I would rather have players with a determination to get into 1st team and then strive to stay there 

I doubt Alex Neil hands out those kind of guarantees but telling a player i see you as a starter as long as you are fit and earning that spot isn't really giving him an automatic comfort zone.  Telling him i'm signing you as back up ( to an about to be converted left back ) or an ageing international who was dropped at the end of the previous season for poor form, isn't exactly selling the move.

Bauer been a good signing at North End and they are on a par with us at present and he's theirs.

[bluebruce]

39 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I know what you're saying but he isn't going to Liverpool or City where it would be reasonable to expect to bide his time and try and force his way in.

If two Clubs from the same division are offering a similar deal but one expects him to go into the first team and make that spot his own and one wants him to come in as a squad player behind other incumbents anyone would be mad to choose the latter Club.

Crap incumbents at the time, too. Except Lenihan.

[bluebruce]

8 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Very odd isnt it? He didnt even make the bench when we could have 44 substitutes on it. Even if just to get to the end of this season - it makes little sense. Smells of the same 'out of loyalty' contract given to Ben Gladwin. 

Uhh actually guys, the Hart thing is even worse than anybody seems to have clocked, according to the LT article anyway.

They say he isn't eligible to play for us this season due to having just come back from his loan at Shrewsbury.

If they're right, this means we have given him the extended deal not as extra LB cover with the injuries and issues there, but for one of only two reasons. Either the misguided sense of loyalty JacknOry mentioned, or...because they're considering giving him another deal.

And tell you what, why in the world has Platt been given another year? The lad is pushing 23 and just played out his season at Conference level. What the fuck do we think he is going to offer? Conversely I'm not comfortable with some of the younger lads only getting 1 year deals. If they have a good season we have another Brennan situation. I know times are tight but I wonder how many of them could have had 2 year deals if we weren't pissing about with Platt, Hart and Smallwood.

Edit - oh and before anyone points it out, I know Hart has only played for one club this season and the rule is 2. But the LT are saying it, so I'm wondering if there is some odd rule about his loan having been until the end of the season meaning they're the only club he can play for or whatever. Or they might just be wrong.

Edited June 24, 2020 by bluebruce

[chaddyrovers]

49 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Scenario 1: We get the players we want on free transfers in preparation for the Championship. We get promoted. At best, we now have some new squad players instead of first teamers, or at worst we spent a piddly amount of our new £200 million influx of funds. Neither is a problem.

I don't want squad players if we get promote but players who will make a difference.

But spending sensible and not spending the type of money Villa and Fulham did

49 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Scenario 2: We don't get the players we want on free transfers for our Championship season. We don't get promoted. We have a very limited budget and we now need to recruit 2 goalkeepers, 2 CBs, 1-2 LBs, probably an RB, and potentially wingers, strikers, and TM's latest addition to the CM collection (we don't need that one but history shows it will probably happen). Very likely, very few of them are available for free as many of the best freebies are gone. We now have to spend transfer fees or loan fees for almost all acquisitions.

Why wont be get the free transfers we might want if we wait until the end of the season?

We have re-sign Bell for next season by extending his contract. So we only need 1 new left back, 2 centre backs, 2 keepers and 1 wide player this season. This could change depending if we lost any of our 5 key players this summer.  Plus re sign Downing.

[bluebruce]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't want squad players if we get promote but players who will make a difference.

As stated though, there will be absolutely nothing stopping us still getting players who will make a difference. Every squad needs squad players, you know this.

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why wont be get the free transfers we might want if we wait until the end of the season?

We have re-sign Bell for next season by extending his contract. So we only need 1 new left back, 2 centre backs, 2 keepers and 1 wide player this season. This could change depending if we lost any of our 5 key players this summer.  Plus re sign Downing.

Because many of them will be gone. I already said this in both my posts on the matter. We have already lost one of our free transfer targets and we are still a week away from June, only 1 game into the 9.

I forgot we had extended Bell's deal, although some say he isn't even good enough as backup. Personally I can cope with him as second choice. Your list there is still 6 players, but we probably need genuine RB cover for Nyambe, and we still only have one consistently scoring striker. I'm also yet to see a window where TM isnt targeting a CM, no matter how well stocked we are there.

[Tom]

I’ve said before I find it farcical giving Smallwood another month, it will be desperate measures if we call on him. 

It’s also a kick in the face for fans who were told not to ask for refunds for their £50 or so 

let’s say at £10k a week that’s 800 season ticket pro rated refunds 

Sam Hart even on £2k a week for arguments sake would be nearly another 200

The ridiculous thing is Hart can’t even play for us as he was due to be on loan till season end 

[roversfan99]

35 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't want squad players if we get promote but players who will make a difference.

But spending sensible and not spending the type of money Villa and Fulham did

Why wont be get the free transfers we might want if we wait until the end of the season?

We have re-sign Bell for next season by extending his contract. So we only need 1 new left back, 2 centre backs, 2 keepers and 1 wide player this season. This could change depending if we lost any of our 5 key players this summer.  Plus re sign Downing.

You have to play the percentages. Its not as straight forward as this but we are right in the middle of a 7 horse race for 1 position. We then would have a 1 in 4 chance of promotion from the play offs. 1/7 x 1/4 is a 1 in 28 chance. Therefore you have to be prudent and realistic and plan for Championship football, especially in these financial times. If you sign a couple of cheaper players ie frees that would be good enough at this level in your opinion, you do so. If the unlikely scenario comes and you gain unlikely promotion, they can become useful and cheap squad players assuming they were good enough to begin with. This wait and see attitude is an excuse for poor planning and a load of bullshit.

You show your hypocrisy by endorsing the decision to give Bell another year. I dont think hes even good enough at Championship level but even his biggest fan wouldnt fancy his chances in the Premier League yet hes already had his deal extended. Why didnt you criticise the decision to give him a new contract before finding out what division we are in?

[rigger]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You have to play the percentages. Its not as straight forward as this but we are right in the middle of a 7 horse race for 1 position. We then would have a 1 in 4 chance of promotion from the play offs. 1/7 x 1/4 is a 1 in 28 chance. Therefore you have to be prudent and realistic and plan for Championship football, especially in these financial times. If you sign a couple of cheaper players ie frees that would be good enough at this level in your opinion, you do so. If the unlikely scenario comes and you gain unlikely promotion, they can become useful and cheap squad players assuming they were good enough to begin with. This wait and see attitude is an excuse for poor planning and a load of bullshit.

You show your hypocrisy by endorsing the decision to give Bell another year. I dont think hes even good enough at Championship level but even his biggest fan wouldnt fancy his chances in the Premier League yet hes already had his deal extended. Why didnt you criticise the decision to give him a new contract before finding out what division we are in?

I would say it is more a 10 horse race for four positions. 4/10 x 1/4 = 1 in 10 chance

Edited June 24, 2020 by rigger

[chaddyrovers]

25 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

As stated though, there will be absolutely nothing stopping us still getting players who will make a difference. Every squad needs squad players, you know this.

Because many of them will be gone. I already said this in both my posts on the matter. We have already lost one of our free transfer targets and we are still a week away from June, only 1 game into the 9.

I forgot we had extended Bell's deal, although some say he isn't even good enough as backup. Personally I can cope with him as second choice. Your list there is still 6 players, but we probably need genuine RB cover for Nyambe, and we still only have one consistently scoring striker. I'm also yet to see a window where TM isnt targeting a CM, no matter how well stocked we are there.

its one player, most championship clubs wont be signing players before end of the season for vary reasons like whether the EFL relax the FFP rules or Wage cap budget. The EFL need to rule on this. I read I the athletic that Hull will restrict their new signings wages to 4k a week unless he is marquee signing and they pay him 6k a week.

Yes 6 signings. Hopefully this scouting the foreign markets produces some signings. We might to sell one or 2 players to satisfied FFP rules if they aren't relaxed as UEFA have done for their competitions.

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You have to play the percentages. Its not as straight forward as this but we are right in the middle of a 7 horse race for 1 position. We then would have a 1 in 4 chance of promotion from the play offs. 1/7 x 1/4 is a 1 in 28 chance. Therefore you have to be prudent and realistic and plan for Championship football, especially in these financial times. If you sign a couple of cheaper players ie frees that would be good enough at this level in your opinion, you do so. If the unlikely scenario comes and you gain unlikely promotion, they can become useful and cheap squad players assuming they were good enough to begin with. This wait and see attitude is an excuse for poor planning and a load of bullshit.

You show your hypocrisy by endorsing the decision to give Bell another year. I dont think hes even good enough at Championship level but even his biggest fan wouldnt fancy his chances in the Premier League yet hes already had his deal extended. Why didnt you criticise the decision to give him a new contract before finding out what division we are in?

Bell had a club option so Rovers took it.  

The championship playoffs is wide open, anyone of twelve teams could be in the playoffs including WBA and Leeds who are guaranteed the top 2 spots just yet. This weekend of Championship will be very exciting and interesting to watch In my opinion.

I would expect Mowbray and his recruitment team would have plan for both scenarios. Most championships clubs are waiting and seeing. So all those clubs you are accusing them of poor planning even those they will have targets to sign but will wait and see what league they are in, Whether FFP rules are relax, Is a salary cap coming in and owners funding.

[DeeCee]

Anybody who thinks we're going up is seriously deluded

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Bell had a club option so Rovers took it.  

The championship playoffs is wide open, anyone of twelve teams could be in the playoffs including WBA and Leeds who are guaranteed the top 2 spots just yet. This weekend of Championship will be very exciting and interesting to watch In my opinion.

I would expect Mowbray and his recruitment team would have plan for both scenarios. Most championships clubs are waiting and seeing. So all those clubs you are accusing them of poor planning even those they will have targets to sign but will wait and see what league they are in, Whether FFP rules are relax, Is a salary cap coming in and owners funding.

I asked my Bell question to highlight the flaw in your logic. Why would we activate the clause on a player a million miles away from Premier League standard to extend his contract before knowing which division we are in?

You obviously dont think that hence the repeated questions to Nixon.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I asked my Bell question to highlight the flaw in your logic. Why would we activate the clause on a player a million miles away from Premier League standard to extend his contract before knowing which division we are in?

You obviously dont think that hence the repeated questions to Nixon.

Not flaw at all as he is already at the club, and no guarantee he would have sign an extension. 

What questions to Nixon? I've asked 3 questions in the last 14 days to him. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[rigger]

Just now, DeeCee said:

Anybody who thinks we're going up is seriously deluded

I think we have a chance of promotion, I am only slightly deluded .

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

To clear one or two things up. I saw McLoughlin play once in the flesh and I liked what I saw. He's a tall unit, calm, agile and seems to be focused. If I was a Rovers scout I would have been going back to have another look or two before signing him. Maybe we did. From what I saw I think he could have been a good signing and I'm disappointed he's gone to Rangers.

Somebody else mentioned Sanchez as being better than Walton. That's a possibility. I've seen Sanchez a few times and I think he'll go on to have a good career in League football. He reminded me a bit of Raya. Again a tall and agile guy capable of some terrific saves, and then like lots of young players, capable of the odd brain fart. I'm not a massive Walton fan, he wasn't an upgrade on Raya in my opinion. If Sanchez came it would be somewhat of a gamble given his age but the lad has ability.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Not flaw at all as he is already at the club, and no guarantee he would have sign an extension. 

What questions to Nixon? I've asked 3 questions in the last 14 days to him. 

What? Your main defence is that we dont want to be lumbered with players signed with a Championship season in mind on the off chance that we gain unlikely promotion. Fair enough, but be consistent and surely criticise the decision to renew Bells contract for the same reason.

[DeeCee]

Just now, rigger said:

I think we have a chance of promotion, I am only slightly deluded .

And me but less so, less than 28-1 but greater than 10-1 ?